Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread - Page 142 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4231 of 4726 Old 03-26-2019, 03:37 PM
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Am building a dedicated theater space in a new house I just purchased this year.

Have decided, that I wanted to upgrade the projector in the space, though I was initially planning on waiting... I just cant lol /shrug

SO I am currently deciding whether or not I should be going with the rs4500 OR if I should be going with the 885ES.

Its a choice between these 2 projectors, because I have a connection at a dealer and these are the 2 projectors that he can get at a very large discount from a supplier with whom we have a very long working relationship. I dont know if it is frowned upon to give prices, but I can get the 885es for 16000 tax included, or get the RS4500 for 24000 tax included.

Now I am projecting onto a 150" 2.31:1 screen. Room is 100% light controlled, with proper painting/decor for optimum projector performance.

I also am thinking I need to buy a paladin dcr lens to go with whichever projector I choose. I also am going to be using a Panasonic820ub as my 4k player.

I know so much about projected images is subjective, but looking for opinions/suggestions...as I am spending roughly $50,000 on this room and want peak performance and dont want to regret my purchase by next year.
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post #4232 of 4726 Old 03-26-2019, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Am building a dedicated theater space in a new house I just purchased this year.

Have decided, that I wanted to upgrade the projector in the space, though I was initially planning on waiting... I just cant lol /shrug

SO I am currently deciding whether or not I should be going with the rs4500 OR if I should be going with the 885ES.

Its a choice between these 2 projectors, because I have a connection at a dealer and these are the 2 projectors that he can get at a very large discount from a supplier with whom we have a very long working relationship. I dont know if it is frowned upon to give prices, but I can get the 885es for 16000 tax included, or get the RS4500 for 24000 tax included.

Now I am projecting onto a 150" 2.31:1 screen. Room is 100% light controlled, with proper painting/decor for optimum projector performance.

I also am thinking I need to buy a paladin dcr lens to go with whichever projector I choose. I also am going to be using a Panasonic820ub as my 4k player.

I know so much about projected images is subjective, but looking for opinions/suggestions...as I am spending roughly $50,000 on this room and want peak performance and dont want to regret my purchase by next year.
Hi.
That is a toughie, especially with the prices you could get these for. I think the Z1 won't be 8k better than the 760.
Also it is nearly twice the mass at nearly 40Kg and the 885 is 'only' 20Kg.
One thing some have said is the limit of screen size for the lumens on offer.

So in that respect I think the 3000 lumen Z1 will light up your 150" screen better than the 760's 2000 and HDR will therefore have more impact.

My guess is both these models will be replaced this September/October time so that may be something you want to factor in.

You won't regret either of them though if you must buy soon.

My 760 is nice and sharp and looks great (I put some pics on the previous page of this thread for indicative purposes only of course and they look even better to the eye) but the lens of 760's in general is not as good as the Z1 lens, which remains one of the best out there at the moment.

Good luck and have fun choosing. It is one of the best parts.
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post #4233 of 4726 Old 03-26-2019, 05:30 PM
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I have an opportunity to pick up an 885es demo projector for about $15K Canadian. I believe this is a pretty good deal.

I'd be coming from a JVC x970R.

Could anyone who has seen both tell me about what I will notice most in picture quality between these two projectors?
The difference in cost after selling my x970R is still going to be $12K+ so the difference in pq has to be positively astounding.
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post #4234 of 4726 Old 03-26-2019, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Hi.
That is a toughie, especially with the prices you could get these for. I think the Z1 won't be 8k better than the 760.
Also it is nearly twice the mass at nearly 40Kg and the 885 is 'only' 20Kg.
One thing some have said is the limit of screen size for the lumens on offer.

So in that respect I think the 3000 lumen Z1 will light up your 150" screen better than the 760's 2000 and HDR will therefore have more impact.

My guess is both these models will be replaced this September/October time so that may be something you want to factor in.

You won't regret either of them though if you must buy soon.

My 760 is nice and sharp and looks great (I put some pics on the previous page of this thread for indicative purposes only of course and they look even better to the eye) but the lens of 760's in general is not as good as the Z1 lens, which remains one of the best out there at the moment.

Good luck and have fun choosing. It is one of the best parts.
Size/weight is actually something I had not taken into account, as this is going to be ceiling mounted...
I think that alone is going to push me to the Sony 885 with the Paladin DCR lens which will hopefully give the 885 the added oomf enough to fill my 150".

I dont know how much additional costs would be to make it possible to hang that RS4500 from the ceiling.
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Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Size/weight is actually something I had not taken into account, as this is going to be ceiling mounted...

I think that alone is going to push me to the Sony 885 with the Paladin DCR lens which will hopefully give the 885 the added oomf enough to fill my 150".

I dont know how much additional costs would be to make it possible to hang that RS4500 from the ceiling.

There’s also the BenQ LK970 or 990 you could consider for that sized screen if you’re looking for as good or better lens, Sony VW5000ES type Brightness (great for HDR!), sharpness and image detail, but less very low native black and contrast performance due to being a DLP.
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post #4236 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 01:45 AM
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Hi all

Could someone please point me to right direction regarding the latest Sony pro calibration software that is compatible with the Sony Vpl 885/995 ?

Thank you


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Anyone... please

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post #4237 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 01:52 AM
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Anyone... please
Have you tried your dealer?

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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Have you tried your dealer?


Yeah I did they didn’t even know about it.


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post #4239 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I have an opportunity to pick up an 885es demo projector for about $15K Canadian. I believe this is a pretty good deal.

I'd be coming from a JVC x970R.

Could anyone who has seen both tell me about what I will notice most in picture quality between these two projectors?
The difference in cost after selling my x970R is still going to be $12K+ so the difference in pq has to be positively astounding.
Coming from JVC. What do you like about your JVC?

You will find the 885ES will be:
1) Way calmer. You will find your x970R busy in comparison
2) The 885ES will be brighter and everything will pop more.
3) You will find the 885ES decently sharper. Not just because its native 4K but because reality creation processing is awesome. This assumes you're not sitting way too far back.
4) You will find motion is way better on the 885ES than the x970R.
5) You will find that the 885ES syncs way faster on HDMI changes. Real fast. Instead of 15 seconds, try 3-5 seconds.
6) You will not hear any e-shift noise ever again.
7) You will love true fade to blacks
8) You will find dark scenes far better on the JVC. But only really dark scenes. Night time city scenes will be as good.

For most people this would be a great upgrade and you're getting a great price.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #4240 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Coming from JVC. What do you like about your JVC?

You will find the 885ES will be:
1) Way calmer. You will find your x970R busy in comparison
2) The 885ES will be brighter and everything will pop more.
3) You will find the 885ES decently sharper. Not just because its native 4K but because reality creation processing is awesome. This assumes you're not sitting way too far back.
4) You will find motion is way better on the 885ES than the x970R.
5) You will find that the 885ES syncs way faster on HDMI changes. Real fast. Instead of 15 seconds, try 3-5 seconds.
6) You will not hear any e-shift noise ever again.
7) You will love true fade to blacks
8) You will find dark scenes far better on the JVC. But only really dark scenes. Night time city scenes will be as good.

For most people this would be a great upgrade and you're getting a great price.
And that right there is pretty spot on actually!

Seriously though, I think Markmond has had his account hacked.....
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post #4241 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 03:23 AM
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Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
And that right there is pretty spot on actually!



Seriously though, I think Markmond has had his account hacked.....


Lol reminds me of the movie split maybe when he doesn’t like Sony he’s markmon2


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post #4242 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 05:12 AM
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Anyone... please
Sony Prime Support will send you a copy after request!
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post #4243 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 05:14 AM
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!

Seriously though, I think Markmond has had his account hacked.....
Haha... That made my day!!!
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post #4244 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 05:15 AM
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Sony Prime Support will send you a copy after request!


In Australia I’ve asked Sony Pro with no luck


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post #4245 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 05:29 AM
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In Australia I’ve asked Sony Pro with no luck
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Image Director is freely available from Sony off the web.
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post #4246 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 05:31 AM
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Image Director is freely available from Sony off the web.


Is that what the Sony calibration software comes under ?


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post #4247 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 05:39 AM
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Is that what the Sony calibration software comes under ?
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It depends on what you want to do. Please spend a little time reading previous posts about the differences between ID and CP here or in the calibration forum; they are both for calibration purposes.
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post #4248 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Coming from JVC. What do you like about your JVC?

You will find the 885ES will be:
1) Way calmer. You will find your x970R busy in comparison
2) The 885ES will be brighter and everything will pop more.
3) You will find the 885ES decently sharper. Not just because its native 4K but because reality creation processing is awesome. This assumes you're not sitting way too far back.
4) You will find motion is way better on the 885ES than the x970R.
5) You will find that the 885ES syncs way faster on HDMI changes. Real fast. Instead of 15 seconds, try 3-5 seconds.
6) You will not hear any e-shift noise ever again.
7) You will love true fade to blacks
8) You will find dark scenes far better on the JVC. But only really dark scenes. Night time city scenes will be as good.

For most people this would be a great upgrade and you're getting a great price.
I like the contrast on my JVC, how it has an auto-lens cover, how I can set aspect ratios (have a scope screen). I also use madvr so my content looks really good on it, I really have no serious complaints about the x970R other than the long HDMI switching and how I could have more brightness for HDR material.
I'm only looking at the 885ES demo because it is such a good deal.

I sit about 13' away from my 138" scope screen (~110" 16:9 image).

I think my wife has shut me down though "you don't need a new projector....". I may have to pass on this.
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Anyone... please
PM Your private mail address to me and I will mail it to you.
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post #4250 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 02:36 PM
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PM Your private mail address to me and I will mail it to you.


Thank you so much


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post #4251 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 03:58 PM
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PM Your private mail address to me and I will mail it to you.
Any chance you could do the same for me? I’ve been trying to get Australian support to help since before Christmas, and they don’t want to help.

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Any chance you could do the same for me? I’ve been trying to get Australian support to help since before Christmas, and they don’t want to help.
You got PM
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post #4253 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 10:42 PM
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You got PM


Thanks Again Michael you have been great, very much appreciated


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post #4254 of 4726 Old 03-27-2019, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I like the contrast on my JVC, how it has an auto-lens cover, how I can set aspect ratios (have a scope screen). I also use madvr so my content looks really good on it, I really have no serious complaints about the x970R other than the long HDMI switching and how I could have more brightness for HDR material.
I'm only looking at the 885ES demo because it is such a good deal.

I sit about 13' away from my 138" scope screen (~110" 16:9 image).

I think my wife has shut me down though "you don't need a new projector....". I may have to pass on this.
Well.. if you liked "auto-lens cover" you'll be disappointed because none of the sony's or new JVC's have that Even the costly RS4500 no longer has that. But no one puts the lens cover on when the projector isn't in use anyway. You are on the cusp of being too far away from the screen to benefit from native 4K over e-shift 4K anyway. You'd probably benefit a ton getting setup with madVR for tone mapping or at least a lumagen with dynamic tone mapping. That'll be far less costly and might give you the benefits you want.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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You got PM
Much appreciated
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post #4256 of 4726 Old 03-28-2019, 01:25 AM
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In case you are using a current Panasonic Player for HDR playback:

I have designed 4 HDR curves that can be loaded into gamma 7-10 using Sony's Image Director 3.1. software. I am using the Panasonic UB9000 that offers various display types, including Projector with moderate luminance (350 nits) and Projector with bright luminace (500 nits). For each of these 2 types I have designed 2 curves. These curves were made with an Arve tool for Sony projectors and are clipping at 350 and 500 nits (bh).

So on the Panasonic players side I give out HDR/2020. It's very important to use the Optimizer since these curves clip either at 350 or 500 nits in order to work best with the display type that you have selected.

On the projector side: HDR off, 2020 and one of those curves loaded into gamma 7-10. Brightness about 50 and Contrast max (depending on calibration). Please check with both Sony info screen and the Pansonic playback info that you indeed are projecting HDR/2020.

Those curves were originally designed for my setup with about 180 Nits (screen 110", 16.9, gain 1.4). Yesterday I could test it on a friend's VW760 (with 180", 16:9 and gain 1) having only about 80 nits max. We compared the tonemapping with that of madVR used by my friend (dynamic version with latest build). To summarize this highly interesting mini shootout: We were both impressed and astonished that those curves worked so well even compared to madVR which we probably all agree is the bench mark. So one of my conclusions was that it looks like that those curves could be used with many very different setups (screens). So you may give it at try.

Here is the download link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zkwr5zwgd...JWltfB0Ta?dl=0

P.S. unfortunatelly the UB820 does not offer a display type with 350 nits. I am using mainly the 350 nits curves.
P.P.S of course those curves can be used also with other HDR projectors from Sony (e.g VW295, VW695, VW995 and VW5000).
P.P.PS. I also did versions of these curves for JVC and I am going to test that with my old X7000 that I had sold a while ago. Its buyer is also using madVR and we already have fixed next Monday to give it a try. Great fun

Update: Since many people don't have a UB9004 and to simplify matters I removed the 350 nits curves. Now there are just 2 curves which should go fine with the Display Type "Projector with bright luminace (500 nits)". One curve has moderate brightness with a focus on contrast and highlight details and the other one on brightness.
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Last edited by *Mori*; 04-04-2019 at 01:17 AM.
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post #4257 of 4726 Old 03-28-2019, 05:04 AM
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So on the Panasonic players side I give out HDR/2020. It's very important to use the Optimizer since these curves clip either at 350 or 500 nits in order to work best with the display type that you have selected.
Thank you soo much for sharing those curves with us Mori! Been running on the curve you did for me

One question though: When you turn on HDR Optimizer you can choose a value as well. Do you run at zero or do you do like +2 or something?

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post #4258 of 4726 Old 03-28-2019, 05:18 AM
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Well.. if you liked "auto-lens cover" you'll be disappointed because none of the sony's or new JVC's have that Even the costly RS4500 no longer has that. But no one puts the lens cover on when the projector isn't in use anyway. You are on the cusp of being too far away from the screen to benefit from native 4K over e-shift 4K anyway. You'd probably benefit a ton getting setup with madVR for tone mapping or at least a lumagen with dynamic tone mapping. That'll be far less costly and might give you the benefits you want.
Interesting on the no lens cover - maybe we don't have to worry about dust on the lens as much anymore...

Some of my seats are a little closer, but my main sitting position is 13'.
Would you say I'm on the cusp for just the 16:9 content at my 110"; or also for my 2.35 content at 138"?

I am already running madVR with 3DLuts. It was a fantastic improvement!
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post #4259 of 4726 Old 03-28-2019, 05:22 AM
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@Peak
Thank you for your feedback.
The Optimizer should be "on" and there are only on or off as far I remeber. All other settings in the HDR settings I don't use. So these are usually on 0 (like dynamic range or dark tone level). One exception to this: the bright 350 nits curve - here I use dark tone level +1 and bright tone level +3. This helps with differentiation in the highlights. I had originally thought that it might be helpful for many to increase the dynamic range slider. Having seen now how it looks with only 80 nits on a 3.5 m width screen I think that the curves are rather considered as really bright by most people.

So you have 2 options (gamma) for each display type. In case some movie are rather dark or bright. Of course you are still free to use the dynamic range slider. As I said I think there is no need for that unless you generally prefer a darker picture.
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Last edited by *Mori*; 03-28-2019 at 05:25 AM.
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post #4260 of 4726 Old 03-28-2019, 05:27 AM
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In case you are using a current Panasonic Player for HDR playback:

I have designed 4 HDR curves that can be loaded into gamma 7-10 using Sony's Image Director 3.1. software. I am using the Panasonic UB9000 that offers various display types, including Projector with moderate luminance (350 nits) and Projector with bright luminace (500 nits). For each of these 2 types I have designed 2 curves. These curves were made with an Arve tool for Sony projectors and are clipping at 350 and 500 nits (bh).

So on the Panasonic players side I give out HDR/2020. It's very important to use the Optimizer since these curves clip either at 350 or 500 nits in order to work best with the display type that you have selected.

On the projector side: HDR off, 2020 and one of those curves loaded into gamma 7-10. Brightness about 50 and Contrast max (depending on calibration). Please check with both Sony info screen and the Pansonic playback info that you indeed are projecting HDR/2020.

Those curves were originally designed for my setup with about 180 Nits (screen 110", 16.9, gain 1.4). Yesterday I could test it on a friend's VW760 (with 180", 16:9 and gain 1) having only about 80 nits max. We compared the tonemapping with that of madVR used by my friend (dynamic version with latest build). To summarize this highly interesting mini shootout: We were both impressed and astonished that those curves worked so well even compared to madVR which we probably all agree is the bench mark. So one of my conclusions was that it looks like that those curves could be used with many very different setups (screens). So you may give it at try.

Here is the download link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zkwr5zwgd...JWltfB0Ta?dl=0

P.S. unfortunatelly the UB820 does not offer a display type with 350 nits. I am using mainly the 350 nits curves.
P.P.S of course those curves can be used also with other HDR projectors from Sony (e.g VW295, VW695, VW995 and VW5000).
P.P.PS. I also did versions of these curves for JVC and I am going to test that with my old X7000 that I had sold a while ago. Its buyer is also using madVR and we already have fixed next Monday to give it a try. Great fun
Nice work. Will give them a go. Thanks for sharing!

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.
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