Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread - Page 159 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4741 of 4793 Old 08-05-2019, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
Can you still turn on the unit? I am afraid you will need to contact Sony Prime Service.
I did they took it for maintenance and still they can not configure whats wrong with it
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post #4742 of 4793 Old 08-08-2019, 04:23 AM
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Hello all

Ive been reading posts on this thread for a while and found them to be very helpful, so I've signed up today. Thanks for all the help.

I've noticed that the 8.100 firmware is now on the UK customer facing site (albeit with a December 2018 release date and no information about the release).

Ive got the dealer coming on Monday so I'll get them to install it rather than risk updating it myself. I currently have 8.004 installed.

The only question I have is that less than a month ago I had profesional calibration done and I am concerned that all will have been in vain if the new firmware changes things? I have a pdf of the settings which was given to me by the calibrator, so I could redo them, but I assume those settings will be irrelevant if the underlaying firmware changes things.

Assuming I am right about the above, do you still recommend upgrading firmware because the projector will perform better?

Thanks in advance.
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post #4743 of 4793 Old 08-08-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GBProjector View Post
Hello all

Ive been reading posts on this thread for a while and found them to be very helpful, so I've signed up today. Thanks for all the help.

I've noticed that the 8.100 firmware is now on the UK customer facing site (albeit with a December 2018 release date and no information about the release).

Ive got the dealer coming on Monday so I'll get them to install it rather than risk updating it myself. I currently have 8.004 installed.

The only question I have is that less than a month ago I had profesional calibration done and I am concerned that all will have been in vain if the new firmware changes things? I have a pdf of the settings which was given to me by the calibrator, so I could redo them, but I assume those settings will be irrelevant if the underlaying firmware changes things.

Assuming I am right about the above, do you still recommend upgrading firmware because the projector will perform better?

Thanks in advance.
No worries, the calibration will remain unaffected.
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post #4744 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 12:34 AM
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vpl-vw760es firmware

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Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
No worries, the calibration will remain unaffected.
Thank you.
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post #4745 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 02:17 AM
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vpl-vw760es firmware

PrimeSupport have sent me the following as the changes from 8.004 to 8.100.

"Please find the change points of V8.100:

Added Function:
· Support for the uniformity adjustment by Projection Manager DSMA-PM1
· Support for the compatibility of new panel.

Improved performance:
· When the network connection and the setting are updated, the operation that may take a lot of time to recognize the projector by Control4 system is improved.

Error Correction:
· The error that an error may occur when starting is corrected.
· The enable / disable condition of the motion flow is corrected.
· When the network administration is “ON”, the error that Laser does not light when turning the power to on after the luminance error occurs is corrected."
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post #4746 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GBProjector View Post
PrimeSupport have sent me the following as the changes from 8.004 to 8.100.

"Please find the change points of V8.100:

Added Function:
· Support for the uniformity adjustment by Projection Manager DSMA-PM1
· Support for the compatibility of new panel.

Improved performance:
· When the network connection and the setting are updated, the operation that may take a lot of time to recognize the projector by Control4 system is improved.

Error Correction:
· The error that an error may occur when starting is corrected.
· The enable / disable condition of the motion flow is corrected.
· When the network administration is “ON”, the error that Laser does not light when turning the power to on after the luminance error occurs is corrected."
So, actually no real picture quality difference here...
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post #4747 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 02:51 AM
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So, actually no real picture quality difference here...
That's what I was thinking when I read it. It would be good to hear from people who have installed it though as they were impressed by picture changes.
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post #4748 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 04:16 AM
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I’m more intrigued by the « new panel » compatibility.
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post #4749 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
So, actually no real picture quality difference here...
It’s either cognitive dissonance (common) or the improvements aren’t mentioned (would be weird) but I really thought the picture to be better after applying 8.100

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I’m more intrigued by the « new panel » compatibility.
Hardware revision for newer production units? (Is it still in production though?)

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post #4750 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 10:40 AM
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I’m more intrigued by the « new panel » compatibility.
Sony did confirm with me that they do indeed have new panels in these machines... perhaps they are taking advantage of the new panels in this new update... thus, the better pic improvements folks seems to be reporting?
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post #4751 of 4793 Old 08-09-2019, 11:40 AM
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Those release notes can be cryptic.
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post #4752 of 4793 Old 08-10-2019, 02:13 AM
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I’ll be installing it on Monday whilst they are carrying out some adjustments to my system. Hopefully it’ll fix some control 4 issues I’m having but more importantly I look forward to seeing if the picture is improved.

I have watched a couple of films recently on uhd and regular Blu-ray and can’t really see how the picture could be improved. Amazing.
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post #4753 of 4793 Old 08-11-2019, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GBProjector View Post
That's what I was thinking when I read it. It would be good to hear from people who have installed it though as they were impressed by picture changes.
Given the competition in the projector market and the intense scrutiny on social media, I'm not sure that Sony would want to create an impression that they had shipped projectors previously with with less than ideal software. However seeing is believing. I wasn't expecting anything and my wife didn't even know that the software was updated, but the improvements were immediately noticeable.
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post #4754 of 4793 Old 08-11-2019, 08:22 AM
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Now that I have some time the NX7 and the 760er I can say the biggest problem what the Sony has is
the banding or posteration.
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post #4755 of 4793 Old 08-11-2019, 12:58 PM
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Now that I have some time the NX7 and the 760er I can say the biggest problem what the Sony has is
the banding or posteration.


That might be the reason why Sony inteoduced the Smooth gradation feature.
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post #4756 of 4793 Old 08-12-2019, 12:49 AM
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That might be the reason why Sony inteoduced the Smooth gradation feature.
But unfortunately it does not fix the problem
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post #4757 of 4793 Old 08-12-2019, 01:27 AM
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I do not like the Smooth gradation feature. First solarization is not really removed but - even worse - I had noticed that highlight details are actually reduced. So this function is pretty useless to me. Like I wrote not too long ago color gradient patterns (in 4K )are not as smooth as they could and should be. I am convinced that this is due to the chroma upscaling that is most likely only in 8 bit. I see a chroma shift of 1/2 pixel with the Spears & Munsil test pattern. The luma upscaling is in 10 bit since with the Masciola pattern (which are black and white) single pixels (UHD) are fully resolved.

In movie content this imperfection can be seen however quite rarely and the effects like occasional banding are subtle in my view. I think most people would not even notice it. But I tend to agree with blackbird that is nevertheless probably the biggest issue with the 4k Sony also for me.

P.S With my JVC X7000 my biggest issue was vertical banding due to CMD. This was a far bigger issue at that time. But I realized that not everybody noticed it immediately despite I found that this issue became actually pretty annoying to me.
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post #4758 of 4793 Old 08-12-2019, 09:54 AM
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Smooth graduation helps with a little bit of the banding issues, but only at the expense of fine detail. If turned on enough to do anything for banding, it removes a LOT of fine detail in the image. This is very easy to see in the opening of Jurassic World 2. Just after the opening sequence there is a court room with Goldblum talking to some congressman. If you turn the smooth gradation feature on and off and look at the wood paneling on the walls behind the senators, you'll see all the detail disappear.
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post #4759 of 4793 Old 08-15-2019, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tassop View Post
Given the competition in the projector market and the intense scrutiny on social media, I'm not sure that Sony would want to create an impression that they had shipped projectors previously with with less than ideal software. However seeing is believing. I wasn't expecting anything and my wife didn't even know that the software was updated, but the improvements were immediately noticeable.
Indeed.
The one thing I do know is that they will not admit any major changes to picture processing that will acknowledge they were (as you say) less than optimal in the first place and also they do not want to prejudice future sales of any new models that may be nothing more than a re-hash of old stuff with slightly updated software.....

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post #4760 of 4793 Old 08-15-2019, 03:56 AM
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But unfortunately it does not fix the problem
Nope, it is something do with a specific set of settings, and somewhere hidden deep down, an apparent 8bit section of the pipeline that they REALLY need to update/do something about in 2019!!

Edited to add, if you let the source do the lions share (all) of the chroma upsampling you tend to get the best results. I see subtle banding very very occasionally like that and sometimes it is just the source material not the display.


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Last edited by Archibald1; 08-15-2019 at 04:02 AM.
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post #4761 of 4793 Old 08-15-2019, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sprins View Post
It’s either cognitive dissonance (common) or the improvements aren’t mentioned (would be weird) but I really thought the picture to be better after applying 8.100



Hardware revision for newer production units? (Is it still in production though?)
The latest panel iteration went into the 760 first followed by the 270, 570 and 870. These all use the same panels.

Sony won't admit to putting the same level of 'better shadow detail in HDR' on the 760 with this update and prejudice the 870 in anyway, even though I think that is what they have done, as the picture was noticeably improved to me without touching any settings.

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post #4762 of 4793 Old 08-15-2019, 06:57 AM
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Looks like the US price dropped? Probably were it should have started....

https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw885es
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post #4763 of 4793 Old 08-15-2019, 10:27 AM
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Looks like the US price dropped? Probably were it should have started....

https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw885es
It's on sale - $5K off the Sure Price - good until 8 - 31.
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post #4764 of 4793 Old 08-15-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by *Mori* View Post
I do not like the Smooth gradation feature. First solarization is not really removed but - even worse - I had noticed that highlight details are actually reduced. So this function is pretty useless to me. Like I wrote not too long ago color gradient patterns (in 4K )are not as smooth as they could and should be. I am convinced that this is due to the chroma upscaling that is most likely only in 8 bit. I see a chroma shift of 1/2 pixel with the Spears & Munsil test pattern. The luma upscaling is in 10 bit since with the Masciola pattern (which are black and white) single pixels (UHD) are fully resolved.

In movie content this imperfection can be seen however quite rarely and the effects like occasional banding are subtle in my view. I think most people would not even notice it. But I tend to agree with blackbird that is nevertheless probably the biggest issue with the 4k Sony also for me.

P.S With my JVC X7000 my biggest issue was vertical banding due to CMD. This was a far bigger issue at that time. But I realized that not everybody noticed it immediately despite I found that this issue became actually pretty annoying to me.
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Nope, it is something do with a specific set of settings, and somewhere hidden deep down, an apparent 8bit section of the pipeline that they REALLY need to update/do something about in 2019!!

Edited to add, if you let the source do the lions share (all) of the chroma upsampling you tend to get the best results. I see subtle banding very very occasionally like that and sometimes it is just the source material not the display.

So, is this a native 8bit or 10bit projector?

I am now shopping for a computer monitor and started to see that a lot of them only have 8 bits but use some funky processing to get 10bits... the true 10 bit monitors are very expensive....

So, basically, is this projector native 8 bit or 10 bit?
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post #4765 of 4793 Old 08-16-2019, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Looks like the US price dropped? Probably were it should have started....

https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw885es
A price drop usually means they want to shift units.... that means something is afoot......

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post #4766 of 4793 Old 08-16-2019, 03:23 AM
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So, is this a native 8bit or 10bit projector?

I am now shopping for a computer monitor and started to see that a lot of them only have 8 bits but use some funky processing to get 10bits... the true 10 bit monitors are very expensive....

So, basically, is this projector native 8 bit or 10 bit?
That is the question!

The monitors you speak of probably use FRC (Frame Rate Control) to produce what LOOKS like 10bit colour on an 8bit panel. Clever to be sure.

Sony projectors have been touted with 10bit processing from since the VW50 days, but the conjecture is about the panel drivers and if they are driven by 10/12 bit processing or if they do it all at 8bit (which even subtle banding would allude to unfortunately).

Short answer, unless a Sony projector designer/engineer comes on here and says otherwise both categorically and emphatically, then we will never know, but we can see what we see and deduce what we deduce.

In this day and age any display that costs what these do should at least be able to do end to end 10bit colour processing, if not more. Seems like being short changed to me. They trade off them having an image that is great, but it could be even better.

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post #4767 of 4793 Old 08-16-2019, 03:55 AM
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That is the question!

The monitors you speak of probably use FRC (Frame Rate Control) to produce what LOOKS like 10bit colour on an 8bit panel. Clever to be sure.

Sony projectors have been touted with 10bit processing from since the VW50 days, but the conjecture is about the panel drivers and if they are driven by 10/12 bit processing or if they do it all at 8bit (which even subtle banding would allude to unfortunately).

Short answer, unless a Sony projector designer/engineer comes on here and says otherwise both categorically and emphatically, then we will never know, but we can see what we see and deduce what we deduce.

In this day and age any display that costs what these do should at least be able to do end to end 10bit colour processing, if not more. Seems like being short changed to me. They trade off them having an image that is great, but it could be even better.
If I have to guess, it's a hardware issue. Ie, their panel is not native 10bit or 12 bit.. but rather 8 bit.

Because software wise, Sony seems to be pretty good with their upscaling, motion, etc...
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post #4768 of 4793 Old 08-16-2019, 03:58 AM
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A price drop usually means they want to shift units.... that means something is afoot......
More likely they are not selling.

The competition from China is heating up... i see a lot of my friends are just as happy with a $1,000 benq or all those DLPs out there... also more and more just pick up something like the Xiaomi short throw.
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post #4769 of 4793 Old 08-16-2019, 04:00 AM
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If I have to guess, it's a hardware issue. Ie, their panel is not native 10bit or 12 bit.. but rather 8 bit.

Because software wise, Sony seems to be pretty good with their upscaling, motion, etc...
I think the panels themselves are 12 bit items, but the driving circuitry is another matter. Seems weird to cheap out in that way (if that is indeed what they have done) as the processing is there in the rest of the pipeline.

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post #4770 of 4793 Old 08-16-2019, 04:02 AM
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More likely they are not selling.

The competition from China is heating up... i see a lot of my friends are just as happy with a $1,000 benq or all those DLPs out there... also more and more just pick up something like the Xiaomi short throw.
I sort of meant that, and also that they want to shift inventory at a decent price before the new model comes out and makes them all worthless.

They may eek out the cycle for an extra year to shift all the stock and then we won't get a replacement until 2020. Interesting to see what happens at IFA/CEDIA.

Edited to add: Looks like JVC have truly set the cat amongst the pigeons with their NX line and if Sony don't release anything of note this year, it is because they will be lining up proper JVC killers for 2020.

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