Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread - Page 165 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4921 of 5654 Old 09-15-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Well now that’s where the new update HDR / SDR Auto feature will come in handy. For 4k you have it off and for SDR you have it on.


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I can do that now with the press of a button. All this will do is negate the need to even do that. Pushing a button to engage my HDR preset has never been particularly onerous.

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post #4922 of 5654 Old 09-15-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rola View Post
Are you sure it will be applied to all presets? Its not like that today with hdr contrast i I remember correctly.
Currently you have to set up separate presets for HDR 3D and SDR. The way I read it with the new firmware, it will allow two sets of settings (HDR and SDR) for each of the nine presets, therefore giving, in essence, 18 presets.

Unless I have misread something of course...

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post #4923 of 5654 Old 09-15-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
Wonder if the HDR setting will be selected if you send SDR2020 to the projector? Seems that would be needed for many folks. SJ
Would that not frustrate those who use SDR (100nit tone mapping) and BT 2020 settings from their sources?

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post #4924 of 5654 Old 09-15-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Currently you have to set up separate presets for HDR 3D and SDR. The way I read it with the new firmware, it will allow two sets of settings (HDR and SDR) for each of the nine presets, therefore giving, in essence, 18 presets.

Unless I have misread something of course...
We mean the same thing but explains it differently I think.

Im totally with you, this will be nice. My calibrator is booked, doing both the sony and the trinnov
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post #4925 of 5654 Old 09-16-2019, 07:56 AM
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I don't see why it would follow the HDR routing if it doesn't see an HDR flag. Even then what is great about Sony is you can still manually select a custom or regular gamma and color space.

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Would that not frustrate those who use SDR (100nit tone mapping) and BT 2020 settings from their sources?
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post #4926 of 5654 Old 09-16-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Currently you have to set up separate presets for HDR 3D and SDR. The way I read it with the new firmware, it will allow two sets of settings (HDR and SDR) for each of the nine presets, therefore giving, in essence, 18 presets.

Unless I have misread something of course...
If I am not mistaken, i think 3D already have it's own preset that is different from the HDR/SDR.
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post #4927 of 5654 Old 09-16-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
If I am not mistaken, i think 3D already have it's own preset that is different from the HDR/SDR.
No, 3d has no calibrated preset. The 3d-button on the remote is a shortcut to the 3d-settings only
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post #4928 of 5654 Old 09-16-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rola View Post
No, 3d has no calibrated preset. The 3d-button on the remote is a shortcut to the 3d-settings only
I don't mean like a '3D preset' on the option such as 'cinema1, cinema2, bright tv, etc'...

what I meant is if you use say Cinema, and then pop in a 3D movie, then say adjust the brightness, color, gamma, etc, it'll remember that as for '3D movies only'.. meaning, if you select Cinema again, and when you pop in a normal non-3D movie, it'll be a different set of setings that you adjust for that... ie, 2 different presets right here.. just like what they are intending to do for HDR and SDR. Meaning, if you adjusted anything for HDR, it'll remember that everytime you pop in a HDR source.

Here, try using Cinema 1, then pop in a 3D movie, then adjust the brightness to 35 for example.... then pop back in a 2D movie, you'll see that the brightness remain at 50, but everytime you pop in a 3D movie, it'll be 35 where you adjusted it.
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post #4929 of 5654 Old 09-16-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
I don't mean like a '3D preset' on the option such as 'cinema1, cinema2, bright tv, etc'...

what I meant is if you use say Cinema, and then pop in a 3D movie, then say adjust the brightness, color, gamma, etc, it'll remember that as for '3D movies only'.. meaning, if you select Cinema again, and when you pop in a normal non-3D movie, it'll be a different set of setings that you adjust for that... ie, 2 different presets right here.. just like what they are intending to do for HDR and SDR. Meaning, if you adjusted anything for HDR, it'll remember that everytime you pop in a HDR source.

Here, try using Cinema 1, then pop in a 3D movie, then adjust the brightness to 35 for example.... then pop back in a 2D movie, you'll see that the brightness remain at 50, but everytime you pop in a 3D movie, it'll be 35 where you adjusted it.
Thanks, I learned something new today. Todays a nice day
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post #4930 of 5654 Old 09-17-2019, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
I don't see why it would follow the HDR routing if it doesn't see an HDR flag. Even then what is great about Sony is you can still manually select a custom or regular gamma and color space.

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Would that not frustrate those who use SDR (100nit tone mapping) and BT 2020 settings from their sources?
I was responding to post #4927 .

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post #4931 of 5654 Old 09-17-2019, 07:28 AM
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Yes, I read it differently (maybe incorrectly!). I read it as, with the new firmware, the projector going into HDR mode even though that was not wanted since the user would want to apply a regular gamma due to SDR incoming (as you pointed out in a later post). If the user sends SDR/2020 to the projector I am not sure why you would ever want the projector to apply an HDR tone map or have it be selectable. Is someone doing this? When would this be needed?



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I was responding to post #4927 .
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post #4932 of 5654 Old 09-17-2019, 07:37 AM
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Yes, I read it differently (maybe incorrectly!). I read it as, with the new firmware, the projector going into HDR mode even though that was not wanted since the user would want to apply a regular gamma due to SDR incoming (as you pointed out in a later post). If the user sends SDR/2020 to the projector I am not sure why you would ever want the projector to apply an HDR tone map or have it be selectable. Is someone doing this? When would this be needed?
The question was posed; If someone sends BT 2020 to the PJ would it enable HDR automatically. I responded by saying that if it did, it would frustrate those that want to use SDR BT2020.

Hence I would hope that is not the case. The HDR flag is what should prompt switching and that is what should happen in the new firmware imo.

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post #4933 of 5654 Old 09-17-2019, 07:45 AM
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Yes, we are agreeing then and my question as to why it would do that since it didn't see an HDR flag with SDR/2020. I also hope they don't reverse their course and key off of 2020 instead of the HDR flag. Even then they have been very flexible with allowing you to choose a curve other than their internal HDR10, Auto, or Reference so unless they changed that too we should be OK.



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The question was posed; If someone sends BT 2020 to the PJ would it enable HDR automatically. I responded by saying that if it did, it would frustrate those that want to use SDR BT2020.

Hence I would hope that is not the case. The HDR flag is what should prompt switching and that is what should happen in the new firmware imo.
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post #4934 of 5654 Old 09-17-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Yes, we are agreeing then and my question as to why it would do that since it didn't see an HDR flag with SDR/2020. I also hope they don't reverse their course and key off of 2020 instead of the HDR flag. Even then they have been very flexible with allowing you to choose a curve other than their internal HDR10, Auto, or Reference so unless they changed that too we should be OK.
Indeed.

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post #4935 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 04:50 AM
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My 760/885 is arriving today, but I won't be able to get it home/set up until tomorrow. It's going to be very interesting (for me at last) going from a 260/285 all the way up to the 760/885 in a single jump, espcially since I will be avoiding many of the early-adopter issues with this projector. I feel a bit like the guy who turns up half an hour before the end of the party and snuffles up all the remaining booze.

UPDATE: Arrived!
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VISION: Sony VPL-VW760ES, 133" 1.9:1 screen | AMPLIFICATION: Denon AVC-X8500H, 7.5.6; two subs, plus Earthquake XJ-300ST and 3xADS Maximus Shakers | DEVICES: Oppo 203 UHD BD player, Apple TV 4K, Gaming PC w/i7700k CPU, NVIDIA RTX 2080ti | SPEAKERS: 6xSVS Prime Bookshelf, 2xSVS PB-2000 subs, SVS Prime Centre, 6xSVS Prime Elevation

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post #4936 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 08:05 AM
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My 760/885 is arriving today, but I won't be able to get it home/set up until tomorrow. It's going to be very interesting (for me at last) going from a 260/285 all the way up to the 760/885 in a single jump, espcially since I will be avoiding many of the early-adopter issues with this projector. I feel a bit like the guy who turns up half an hour before the end of the party and snuffles up all the remaining booze.

UPDATE: Arrived!

Enjoy!!
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post #4937 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 09:19 AM
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Is it the end of September yet?


Asking for a friend...
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In my mind the end of a month starts with the fourth week.
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post #4939 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Howdle View Post
My 760/885 is arriving today, but I won't be able to get it home/set up until tomorrow. It's going to be very interesting (for me at last) going from a 260/285 all the way up to the 760/885 in a single jump, espcially since I will be avoiding many of the early-adopter issues with this projector. I feel a bit like the guy who turns up half an hour before the end of the party and snuffles up all the remaining booze.

UPDATE: Arrived!
Let us know what firmware is on it when you crack that bad boy open and fire it up won't you?

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.
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post #4940 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 10:24 AM
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Let us know what firmware is on it when you crack that bad boy open and fire it up won't you?
It's 8.100 – I already checked with the dealer. I'm in the same boat as everyone else as of today. It's a pretty cool boat to be fair.

VISION: Sony VPL-VW760ES, 133" 1.9:1 screen | AMPLIFICATION: Denon AVC-X8500H, 7.5.6; two subs, plus Earthquake XJ-300ST and 3xADS Maximus Shakers | DEVICES: Oppo 203 UHD BD player, Apple TV 4K, Gaming PC w/i7700k CPU, NVIDIA RTX 2080ti | SPEAKERS: 6xSVS Prime Bookshelf, 2xSVS PB-2000 subs, SVS Prime Centre, 6xSVS Prime Elevation
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post #4941 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 10:26 AM
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It's 8.100 – I already checked with the dealer. I'm in the same boat as everyone else as of today. It's a pretty cool boat to be fair.
Ahh, okay. That means you need to gen up on the update procedure..... Only a few more sleeps.... I hope!

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post #4942 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 10:30 AM
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Ahh, okay. That means you need to gen up on the update procedure..... Only a few more sleeps.... I hope!
I learned that already: Submerge the unit in 20 inches of water, switch it on. After a popping sound, followed by a loud bang, remove the unit from the water and reinstall. Pretty simple really.

VISION: Sony VPL-VW760ES, 133" 1.9:1 screen | AMPLIFICATION: Denon AVC-X8500H, 7.5.6; two subs, plus Earthquake XJ-300ST and 3xADS Maximus Shakers | DEVICES: Oppo 203 UHD BD player, Apple TV 4K, Gaming PC w/i7700k CPU, NVIDIA RTX 2080ti | SPEAKERS: 6xSVS Prime Bookshelf, 2xSVS PB-2000 subs, SVS Prime Centre, 6xSVS Prime Elevation
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post #4943 of 5654 Old 09-18-2019, 10:39 AM
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I learned that already: Submerge the unit in 20 inches of water, switch it on. After a popping sound, followed by a loud bang, remove the unit from the water and reinstall. Pretty simple really.
That is what I was doing wrong!

Seriously though, there are a couple of versions of how to update doing the rounds, so it pays to gen up so there are no surprises.

The way that worked for me was:

Grab a cuppa and something to read.
Power off at mains. Wait for light to go out.
Insert USB stick with firmware on it.
Power on
Blinking of lights ensues.
Have a read of magazine or whatever whilst enjoying one's beverage.
Wait until you hear the units power relay click to power the unit down and only then remove the USB stick.
Then power back up (can take a little longer than normal) and marvel in the new functions!

Don't take those instructions as gospel by the way, it is just how I remember it!

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #4944 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 03:27 AM
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Thanks @Archibald1 , I have actually been through it with my VW260ES. Same process.

Just got the 760 set up and trying out various material. Though this is clearly a large step up in terms of brightness, vibrancy, detail and image stability, I simply cannot get anything other than a too-dark, flat image when feeding it HDR. Now I know there are custom curves out there and so on, and I know this unit is as yet uncalibrated, but I had expected at least watchable HDR performance out of the box and that is clearly not the case.

Setting my 203 to strip the metadata while preserving WCG still gives me a FAR superior image — bright and popping — to the murky, flat nothing offered by the unit’s internal mapping of HDR. Have tried fiddling with laser output, brightness and contrast but just can’t get a satisfying image that way.

Having said that, 4K BDs using the Oppo’s tonemapping do look spectacular. I wonder, if anyone here is using the built in curves for HDR material, what your settings are? There’s always a chance I’m doing it wrong here.

VISION: Sony VPL-VW760ES, 133" 1.9:1 screen | AMPLIFICATION: Denon AVC-X8500H, 7.5.6; two subs, plus Earthquake XJ-300ST and 3xADS Maximus Shakers | DEVICES: Oppo 203 UHD BD player, Apple TV 4K, Gaming PC w/i7700k CPU, NVIDIA RTX 2080ti | SPEAKERS: 6xSVS Prime Bookshelf, 2xSVS PB-2000 subs, SVS Prime Centre, 6xSVS Prime Elevation
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post #4945 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 04:10 AM
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Do yourself a favor.

Get a Panasonic UB420/820/9000

The HDR Optimizer takes the 760ES to a different level.
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post #4946 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 04:21 AM
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Do yourself a favor.

Get a Panasonic UB420/820/9000

The HDR Optimizer takes the 760ES to a different level.
Is that going to offer something significantly superior to the Oppo’s Luminance/Mode settings, though when mapping/stripping HDR. Somehow I doubt it. As I say, HDR stripped and remapped by the Oppo looks fantastic. I’m more concerned that the internal HDR settings are so dire.

VISION: Sony VPL-VW760ES, 133" 1.9:1 screen | AMPLIFICATION: Denon AVC-X8500H, 7.5.6; two subs, plus Earthquake XJ-300ST and 3xADS Maximus Shakers | DEVICES: Oppo 203 UHD BD player, Apple TV 4K, Gaming PC w/i7700k CPU, NVIDIA RTX 2080ti | SPEAKERS: 6xSVS Prime Bookshelf, 2xSVS PB-2000 subs, SVS Prime Centre, 6xSVS Prime Elevation
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post #4947 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 04:27 AM
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Is that going to offer something significantly superior to the Oppo’s Luminance/Mode settings, though when mapping/stripping HDR. Somehow I doubt it. As I say, HDR stripped and remapped by the Oppo looks fantastic. I’m more concerned that the internal HDR settings are so dire.


Didn’t you say you read through the entire discussion? Even guys like Mori who are pioneers in custom curves can see benefits.

I found the Oppo’s HDR to SDR mapping tended to reduce highlights from gunshots and other flares. Very noticeable in Punisher Netflix first episode when the Punisher goes to the gangster den.

I only wish Panasonic had HDMI input like the Oppo so it can do its magic on other sources like an AppleTV.
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post #4948 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Howdle View Post
Thanks @Archibald1 , I have actually been through it with my VW260ES. Same process.

Just got the 760 set up and trying out various material. Though this is clearly a large step up in terms of brightness, vibrancy, detail and image stability, I simply cannot get anything other than a too-dark, flat image when feeding it HDR. Now I know there are custom curves out there and so on, and I know this unit is as yet uncalibrated, but I had expected at least watchable HDR performance out of the box and that is clearly not the case.

Setting my 203 to strip the metadata while preserving WCG still gives me a FAR superior image — bright and popping — to the murky, flat nothing offered by the unit’s internal mapping of HDR. Have tried fiddling with laser output, brightness and contrast but just can’t get a satisfying image that way.

Having said that, 4K BDs using the Oppo’s tonemapping do look spectacular. I wonder, if anyone here is using the built in curves for HDR material, what your settings are? There’s always a chance I’m doing it wrong here.
As @Woof Woof said, the Panasonic really does make a large difference.
I too had an Oppo 203, but I could not get HDR images to be much different to how you have seen them.

Thing is, you need to be a little creative with HDR on these. They don't adjust quite like the lamp based units.

For example, I have HDR contrast set to 60 most of the time, but Brightness can be as high as 62 before it does anything significant to the black floor when receiving an HDR signal.

I have also found that using Bright Cinema as a base for HDR tinkering yielded excellent results especially with the BB820/9000.

I have also tried using HDMI Dynamic Range set to Full (By rights it should be on limited for video content) and it seems to allow more shadow detail (without compromising the bright parts) and allows brightness to be turned down again too.

They do take some tinkering but once you dial it in the image should impress to a degree the 260 never could.
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post #4949 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Howdle View Post
Is that going to offer something significantly superior to the Oppo’s Luminance/Mode settings, though when mapping/stripping HDR. Somehow I doubt it. As I say, HDR stripped and remapped by the Oppo looks fantastic. I’m more concerned that the internal HDR settings are so dire.
HDR remapped to SDR, is just that. SDR (or 100nit tone mapping, whichever way you want to say it).

As for the internal HDR being so 'dire', well an update is coming that is supposed to improve on the current setup.

I have to say though that HDR from the Panny to my 760 is bright and punchy but with the extra range that makes HDR so much nicer to watch.
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post #4950 of 5654 Old 09-19-2019, 04:55 AM
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As @Woof Woof said, the Panasonic really does make a large difference.
I too had an Oppo 203, but I could not get HDR images to be much different to how you have seen them.

Thing is, you need to be a little creative with HDR on these. They don't adjust quite like the lamp based units.

For example, I have HDR contrast set to 60 most of the time, but Brightness can be as high as 62 before it does anything significant to the black floor when receiving an HDR signal.

I have also found that using Bright Cinema as a base for HDR tinkering yielded excellent results especially with the BB820/9000.

I have also tried using HDMI Dynamic Range set to Full (By rights it should be on limited for video content) and it seems to allow more shadow detail (without compromising the bright parts) and allows brightness to be turned down again too.

They do take some tinkering but once you dial it in the image should impress to a degree the 260 never could.
What I found you get the darkest movie ( Ghost in the shell forgot what chapter ) the brightest film ( The meg ) and with the Panasonic and Sony HDR contrast fix it till you get it right. All other movies will then fall into place perfectly. Watched Alien 4K last night fantastic. Don't even use HDR to SDR its all HDR now and it works brilliant.
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