Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5851 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 07:21 AM
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You need a box (Lumagen, eeColor, MadVR) that can do it and the software (Lighspace, etc,) that will do the profile and generate the LUT that can be loaded into the box. Yes, you need a meter that reads/measures where everything is (color, hue, grayness, etc.) vs where it should be which also means you need a way to show patches that represent all the points that are shown and measured (for example eeColor does not have an in-built patch generator but Lumagen does). Either you have to know/learn how to use all this or you hire someone that does it for you. JVCs now have an autocal function (I am not familiar with it), Sony's do not other than what you used. These units are good and can be made outstanding (but there is quite a bit of added expense getting there).

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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
How does one go about using 3D lut? is it a software? do you need light meter?

That sucks if the blacks are creeping up... btw: I am always using my unit... it's now about 500hrs...
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post #5852 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Either way it shouldn't have really been there. Never seen anything like that myself.
Tell me about it. You could barley make them out on screen bar one. I lived with it as well with the green issue until I watched Schindlers List. So much for calibration issue.
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Tell me about it. You could barley make them out on screen bar one. I lived with it as well with the green issue until I watched Schindlers List. So much for calibration issue.
If mine ever gets like that I will be straight back to my dealer! I have a nice long warranty so it gives plenty of peace of mind.
Hi guys,

Is the issue shown in the Schindler’s List examples something that is obvious from new, develop with use or perhaps both? In other words, is it possible to quickly ascertain if you have a “bad” unit by displaying a B&W movie?

Cheers
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post #5853 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Hi guys,

Is the issue shown in the Schindler’s List examples something that is obvious from new, develop with use or perhaps both? In other words, is it possible to quickly ascertain if you have a “bad” unit by displaying a B&W movie?

Cheers
If you get something like that shown when new, then it needs to be replaced.
It can develop with use, but that is what warranties are for.
If it isn't too bad it can be calibrated away, and it may not be evident at all.
The pictures were actually from an 870, but they are largely similar.

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post #5854 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Hi guys,

Is the issue shown in the Schindler’s List examples something that is obvious from new, develop with use or perhaps both? In other words, is it possible to quickly ascertain if you have a “bad” unit by displaying a B&W movie?

Cheers
If you get something like that shown when new, then it needs to be replaced.
It can develop with use, but that is what warranties are for.
If it isn't too bad it can be calibrated away, and it may not be evident at all.
The pictures were actually from an 870, but they are largely similar.
Thanks, Archibald.

That’s a good way of looking at it, so to speak. 😉 All the more reason to upgrade on a three* year cycle.

*length of warranty; at least here in UK
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post #5855 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Thanks, Archibald.

That’s a good way of looking at it, so to speak. 😉 All the more reason to upgrade on a three* year cycle.

*length of warranty; at least here in UK
Or six years if you buy from Richer Sounds.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #5856 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Hi guys,

Is the issue shown in the Schindler’s List examples something that is obvious from new, develop with use or perhaps both? In other words, is it possible to quickly ascertain if you have a “bad” unit by displaying a B&W movie?

Cheers


I never had the unit for very long. It was a green tinge in the centre of the screen mainly noticed in gray areas and some white. I had it from the very beginning and I thought I required calibration until I saw Schindler list ( B&W ) that’s when I new there was a problem.

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post #5857 of 6034 Old 12-12-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Thanks, Archibald.

That’s a good way of looking at it, so to speak. 😉 All the more reason to upgrade on a three* year cycle.

*length of warranty; at least here in UK


5 over here in Aus

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post #5858 of 6034 Old 12-13-2019, 06:15 AM
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Here are a few photos

I set the colors to MAX to show the difference between the 2 projectors.. so how much more colors the new one has?
Spoiler!
Those are some interesting pictures.
As others have said your gamma may have drifted. I actually like the colour balance of the older unit better in those pictures, but as you have said you cranked the colour up to max, then how it would look when properly adjusted will likely be different. Looks like white uniformity is simply better in the newer example.

Did you check the FPGA version etc to see if they are different?

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #5859 of 6034 Old 12-13-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Hi guys,

Is the issue shown in the Schindler’️s List examples something that is obvious from new, develop with use or perhaps both? In other words, is it possible to quickly ascertain if you have a “bad” unit by displaying a B&W movie?

Cheers


I never had the unit for very long. It was a green tinge in the centre of the screen mainly noticed in gray areas and some white. I had it from the very beginning and I thought I required calibration until I saw Schindler list ( B&W ) that’️s when I new there was a problem.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Thanks, Archibald.

That’️s a good way of looking at it, so to speak. 😉 All the more reason to upgrade on a three* year cycle.

*length of warranty; at least here in UK


5 over here in Aus
Hi Franin,

You were particularly unlucky with your 870/995 experience. You persevered (4 different examples IIRC?) but you made the right decision bailing out. Must be very frustrating.

Cheers
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post #5860 of 6034 Old 12-13-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Hi Franin,

You were particularly unlucky with your 870/995 experience. You persevered (4 different examples IIRC?) but you made the right decision bailing out. Must be very frustrating.

Cheers


Hi
I had 3 x 760 es and 1 870es and unfortunately all had issues. The technician could not believe my luck. I will say this though Sony customer service was top notch as they looked after me till the end. They are a great projector with a great image damn shame.

Hopefully Sony will give you guys DTM as it’s really worth it. You will never have to touch your controls again.
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post #5861 of 6034 Old 12-13-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Hi Franin,

You were particularly unlucky with your 870/995 experience. You persevered (4 different examples IIRC?) but you made the right decision bailing out. Must be very frustrating.

Cheers


Hi
I had 3 x 760 es and 1 870es and unfortunately all had issues. The technician could not believe my luck. I will say this though Sony customer service was top notch as they looked after me till the end. They are a great projector with a great image damn shame.

Hopefully Sony will give you guys DTM as it’️s really worth it. You will never have to touch your controls again.
Having read through the 895 & 995 threads, Sony (or at least their dealers) do indeed seem to take care of those who have these issues.

My previous (now diminished) worry was that upon finding this issue, say a couple of years into ownership and regardless of warranty status, you end up having to battle with the OEM to get it resolved.

What PJ are you running now?

Cheers
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post #5862 of 6034 Old 12-13-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Having read through the 895 & 995 threads, Sony (or at least their dealers) do indeed seem to take care of those who have these issues.

My previous (now diminished) worry was that upon finding this issue, say a couple of years into ownership and regardless of warranty status, you end up having to battle with the OEM to get it resolved.

What PJ are you running now?

Cheers


I’m running the JVC NX9 ( RS3000 )
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post #5863 of 6034 Old 12-14-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post
Having read through the 895 & 995 threads, Sony (or at least their dealers) do indeed seem to take care of those who have these issues.

My previous (now diminished) worry was that upon finding this issue, say a couple of years into ownership and regardless of warranty status, you end up having to battle with the OEM to get it resolved.

What PJ are you running now?

Cheers
Quote:
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Hi
I had 3 x 760 es and 1 870es and unfortunately all had issues. The technician could not believe my luck. I will say this though Sony customer service was top notch as they looked after me till the end. They are a great projector with a great image damn shame.

Hopefully Sony will give you guys DTM as it’s really worth it. You will never have to touch your controls again.
I'm on my 4th 885. As they always say, fourth time a charm, er or was that third....

This one seems great, at least for now.

Now only if Sony would pay for the great Kris Dearing to calibrate my new one as he did the second, but of course they wont. Such is our expensive hobby I guess. Shameful quality control if you ask me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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post #5864 of 6034 Old 12-14-2019, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Garth Jacobsen View Post
I'm on my 4th 885. As they always say, fourth time a charm, er or was that third....

This one seems great, at least for now.

Now only if Sony would pay for the great Kris Dearing to calibrate my new one as he did the second, but of course they wont. Such is our expensive hobby I guess. Shameful quality control if you ask me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Hi Garth

With Sony their was more to it ( Long Story ) but I personally agree with you their QC is bad. The prices Sony is charging for their lasers every projector before being released should of been thoroughly checked. I would of rather bought the projector with 10 hours on it and thoroughly checked working very well then what I had to go through.
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post #5865 of 6034 Old 12-14-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
You need a box (Lumagen, eeColor, MadVR) that can do it and the software (Lighspace, etc,) that will do the profile and generate the LUT that can be loaded into the box. Yes, you need a meter that reads/measures where everything is (color, hue, grayness, etc.) vs where it should be which also means you need a way to show patches that represent all the points that are shown and measured (for example eeColor does not have an in-built patch generator but Lumagen does). Either you have to know/learn how to use all this or you hire someone that does it for you. JVCs now have an autocal function (I am not familiar with it), Sony's do not other than what you used. These units are good and can be made outstanding (but there is quite a bit of added expense getting there).
Oh well.. that's out of my budget...

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Those are some interesting pictures.
As others have said your gamma may have drifted. I actually like the colour balance of the older unit better in those pictures, but as you have said you cranked the colour up to max, then how it would look when properly adjusted will likely be different. Looks like white uniformity is simply better in the newer example.

Did you check the FPGA version etc to see if they are different?
Well, i put it at max value, just to show how much difference there is... when i adjusted to the exact same numbers i like to view on my screen, the newer one is still more vibrant and colorful...

There is also contrast diference.. that could also be gamma drift...

I hope it's got nothing to do with panel degradation again...

but since i can't really tell one from another, it could be anything... even projector variance... but if it's variance, then there is a lot of variance here... and now i want this new projector... haha...
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post #5866 of 6034 Old 12-15-2019, 06:50 PM
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Oh well.. that's out of my budget...
Keep an eye on the second hand market. I picked up a non-4K Lumagen on ebay for a couple of hundred bucks.

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post #5867 of 6034 Old 12-16-2019, 04:18 AM
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Keep an eye on the second hand market. I picked up a non-4K Lumagen on ebay for a couple of hundred bucks.
And Lumagen is about to raise prices form January/1/2020 !
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post #5868 of 6034 Old 12-19-2019, 06:05 AM
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Keep an eye on the second hand market. I picked up a non-4K Lumagen on ebay for a couple of hundred bucks.
I am all in for 4K now..
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post #5869 of 6034 Old 12-19-2019, 07:28 AM
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Bit slow round here, so here are a few pics illustrating why I continue to love this projector! Enjoy!

C'mon guys, lets have some pictures...
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“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.

Last edited by Archibald1; 12-19-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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post #5870 of 6034 Old 12-19-2019, 10:48 AM
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Bit slow round here, so here are a few pics illustrating why I continue to love this projector! Enjoy!

C'mon guys, lets have some pictures...
I feel the same way and ever since i updated to the new FW, i simply love the SDR image with the deep blacks. I still can't get the same blacks for HDR for some reason but i will be patient until Sony hopefully releases the DTM which should help showing the best black levels possible. Or maybe i will look at some third-party solution like Lumagen or Envy but the cost on those are a little bit too steep for me now.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying your 760

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post #5871 of 6034 Old 12-19-2019, 11:24 AM
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I feel the same way and ever since i updated to the new FW, i simply love the SDR image with the deep blacks. I still can't get the same blacks for HDR for some reason but i will be patient until Sony hopefully releases the DTM which should help showing the best black levels possible. Or maybe i will look at some third-party solution like Lumagen or Envy but the cost on those are a little bit too steep for me now.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying your 760
Without DTM, HDR does seem to have slightly raised blacks. That is why I am hopeful our DTM update will not be too long coming.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #5872 of 6034 Old 12-19-2019, 12:59 PM
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I am all in for 4K now..
Where possible, so am I. But the reality is that there are still an awful lot of blurays and DVDs that aren't available on UHD and probably never will be, and need watching. Piping my SD and HD rec709 devices through that gives me a bit of control.

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post #5873 of 6034 Old 12-20-2019, 01:37 PM
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Bit slow round here, so here are a few pics illustrating why I continue to love this projector! Enjoy! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]

C'mon guys, lets have some pictures... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]
They look great, especially the shot of Deckard. Do you suppose androids dream of DTM?
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post #5874 of 6034 Old 12-21-2019, 03:12 AM
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They look great, especially the shot of Deckard. Do you suppose androids dream of DTM?
Indeed they do.

C'mon peeps, lets have some of your favourite film pics up here for Christmas!

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post #5875 of 6034 Old 12-21-2019, 12:39 PM
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Curious if anyone here has the new Nvidia Shield Pro?


I got one the other day to replace my older 2015 model. Was primarily interested in the AI up-scaling feature and the supposedly improved HDR support.
When it comes to the AI feature, I'd say it's pretty impressive actually. HD content gets a noticeable uptick in detail and sharpness without introducing any artifacts, as long as you keep it on the Medium setting.
(I'm wondering though if using both Sony's Reality creation and the Shields AI feature on at the same time is a good idea or not...)



However, there is something really off with the Color space content matching feature. With this set to on, the Shield is supposed to automatically switch between REC709 and BT2020 depending on the content.
Sadly in my case everything is displayed in BT2020 no matter the source material and the colors are way over-saturated. I might be missing something here but has anyone gotten this to work as intended?
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post #5876 of 6034 Old 12-21-2019, 02:47 PM
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Curious if anyone here has the new Nvidia Shield Pro?


I got one the other day to replace my older 2015 model. Was primarily interested in the AI up-scaling feature and the supposedly improved HDR support.
When it comes to the AI feature, I'd say it's pretty impressive actually. HD content gets a noticeable uptick in detail and sharpness without introducing any artifacts, as long as you keep it on the Medium setting.
(I'm wondering though if using both Sony's Reality creation and the Shields AI feature on at the same time is a good idea or not...)



However, there is something really off with the Color space content matching feature. With this set to on, the Shield is supposed to automatically switch between REC709 and BT2020 depending on the content.
Sadly in my case everything is displayed in BT2020 no matter the source material and the colors are way over-saturated. I might be missing something here but has anyone gotten this to work as intended?
I have one (the 2019 tube version) This is a known and acknowledged bug. Nvidia supposedly intend to fix this. I hope they do it soon, the shield 2019 capabilities seems promising.

As far as AI upscalig and reality creation both active, if I understand RC correctly it only works on 1080p content and with the AI upscaling active the shield outputs 4K so RC won’t be invoked.
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post #5877 of 6034 Old 12-21-2019, 11:06 PM
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Indeed they do.

C'mon peeps, lets have some of your favourite film pics up here for Christmas!

Sorry, trying to catch up on this thread but are you amazed/happy with the new firmware and what it has done for your 885es/760? Black levels, on SDR, much better?
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post #5878 of 6034 Old 12-22-2019, 06:28 AM
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Sorry, trying to catch up on this thread but are you amazed/happy with the new firmware and what it has done for your 885es/760? Black levels, on SDR, much better?
The black levels were not abysmal (as some would have you believe) in the first place, but the provision of a working dynamic iris (which is extremely transparent in it's operation alongside the laser dimming) have made it just that bit better in the very darkest scenes and it improves matters nicely in that area.

I find HDR is also improved, but due to the raised black levels that can happen with HDR (without any DTM in use) it is not as much of an improvement in black levels as SDR, but it is still a notable improvement nonetheless.

The SDR blacks show what could be accomplished with HDR sources if a DTM solution was in place however!!

It is how this machine should have been at release in my view, but at least they gave us the facilities in the end. It may have been their roadmap all along of course, but we will never know.

To sum up, yes, it is a superb upgrade for what was already a very accomplished machine. And one cannot understate the compelling nature of the laser light source as well. The stability and colour rendition is superb.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.
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post #5879 of 6034 Old 12-22-2019, 06:46 AM
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A few more....

A few more from me.

C'mon peeps, lets see some others...
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“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.
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post #5880 of 6034 Old 12-22-2019, 12:46 PM
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The black levels were not abysmal (as some would have you believe) in the first place, but the provision of a working dynamic iris (which is extremely transparent in it's operation alongside the laser dimming) have made it just that bit better in the very darkest scenes and it improves matters nicely in that area.

I find HDR is also improved, but due to the raised black levels that can happen with HDR (without any DTM in use) it is not as much of an improvement in black levels as SDR, but it is still a notable improvement nonetheless.

The SDR blacks show what could be accomplished with HDR sources if a DTM solution was in place however!!

It is how this machine should have been at release in my view, but at least they gave us the facilities in the end. It may have been their roadmap all along of course, but we will never know.

To sum up, yes, it is a superb upgrade for what was already a very accomplished machine. And one cannot understate the compelling nature of the laser light source as well. The stability and colour rendition is superb.

Wow nice. Now if they could only add DTM
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