Official Sony VW885ES / VW760ES Owner's Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
The VW885 is substantially more light , see the previous posts what others have to say about the jump from 675 to the 885.

Two posters with VW885 have reported using 138" diagonal 2.35:1 , 1.1-1.3 gain screens at 70-80% ( medium) running HDR .

For reference , I had a VW675 Sony and RS600 JVC . My screen was 133" diagonal(smaller) 2.35:1, *1.5 gain (higher) , and even with a anamorphic lens
giving *additional 20% brightness I still had to run both of these on high to get descent HDR .

By going to the VW885 I was only expecting to drop my screen gain to a unity level reference material for the same size with the anamorphic lens. Now I realize I can not only lower the gain, I can also increase the size to 140" and I don't even need the anamorphic lens to achieve that goal . I could easily run an even bigger screen if I really wanted to using the anamorphic lens butr I would run out of space on my wall . For a average to larger home theater screen this
projector will more than suffice .

EDIT: I didn't really notice at first the screen you apparently have now . This HighPower screen at 150" ,assuming 2.35:1 , is going to be bright, depending on how you mount your projector . One thing I have heard, maybe others could confirm ,
is that light from laser is more uniform across the screen and less likely to hotspot .
Thanks RD, I planned and built the home theater when I had my house built, so it is 26x16... with a 2 feet step down (stairs on the sides) 11ft ceiling in the low part.... point is I have my projector set up for direct firing in the middle of the screen... between seats on the upper level... so the position would give me maximum brightness per the screen requirements.

I want to thank you and any others that have commented for the educated insight you offer... most of my friends think I am crazy for considering spending this much, and tell me, "what's wrong with the one you have, it looks great" But guys like you and the rest here, can appreciate what truly quality video can look like. So it is good to be able to talk to folk that understand :-)

PJ
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post #92 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Probably will never know as VW885 users are only using 70-80% ( medium) laser for HDR on screens 138" 1.1-1.3 gain .

Your screen is this size or smaller Mike and you were saying you are running mid laser too ,correct ? How long do you expect your projector to last ?
Unless you have some crystal ball I'd expect no one knows how laser will pan out in the long run , by the looks of things this projector will
do as good as anything in class .
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post #93 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Iam74Gibson View Post
Thanks RD, I planned and built the home theater when I had my house built, so it is 26x16... with a 2 feet step down (stairs on the sides) 11ft ceiling in the low part.... point is I have my projector set up for direct firing in the middle of the screen... between seats on the upper level... so the position would give me maximum brightness per the screen requirements.

I want to thank you and any others that have commented for the educated insight you offer... most of my friends think I am crazy for considering spending this much, and tell me, "what's wrong with the one you have, it looks great" But guys like you and the rest here, can appreciate what truly quality video can look like. So it is good to be able to talk to folk that understand :-)

PJ
This is my build as of today. Funny enough the floor is 26 X 18 X 12 high . I only just finished my current theater after couple years work now building a new home in the country . The new theater will be over the garage , thus the sloped ceiling unfortunately , nothing good acoustics won't rectify . I like the volume space certainly and the screen wall in the rear will accommodate up to 160" if I ever go that big .
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post #94 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
I can confirm that black levels on SDR content are not similar to my JVC X550R one, but its not an issue at all as overall picture looks great, but what this Projector is really a King is HDR content image is just astonishing and more movies are coming in HDR even old one remastered and they all look great! And Blacks here are superb in HDR picture colours popping our and picture is just amazing with its super sharp image. My friend owner of first laser Epson LS 10000 sais he cannot believe how great picture is and is very sharp, still experimenting on 3d lut calibration for HDR
How can old movies be remastered in HDR? My understanding is that HDR requires HDR cameras/techniques. If the old movies wheren't shot that way how is it possible?
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post #95 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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Yes I found changing setting 2 to 0 and leaving 15 at 1 remains colours to be popped out and removes greenish presence in white, I believe setting 15 increases the lumens output, but I agree with you it losses that pop out effect in HDR and SDR
You need to make the change to 15 or else you will still have compromised 1:1 pixel integrity and unformity issues. I questioned that one since I liked it at its default like you. I just don’t think the risk is worth the reward until we know more. And the image quality is compromised somewhat unless you can expertly calibrate it all to 65 and use that for everything.
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post #96 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 06:29 PM
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Looking to buy a 885 very soon. Do the production units still have the color bleed issue or has that been resolved?
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post #97 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 06:58 PM
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I don’t think there have been any green bleed issue reports from 885 owners with production models that I have seen. SJ
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post #98 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Probably will never know as VW885 users are only using 70-80% ( medium) laser for HDR on screens 138" 1.1-1.3 gain .

Your screen is this size or smaller Mike and you were saying you are running mid laser too ,correct ? How long do you expect your projector to last ?
Unless you have some crystal ball I'd expect no one knows how laser will pan out in the long run , by the looks of things this projector will
do as good as anything in class .
If you boost the light 12% means you are running the projector harder than designed. Think about it. The projector is designed to increase fan speed (cooling) once you go above 80%. With the adjustment you are getting design max lumens when the projector is between 70 to 80%, so you will be getting the heat generated from design max output, but not the cooling design, because fan is not ramping up. It may not matter, but it will be running above design. Before I did this adjustment, I would like to talk to a Sony engineer. Maybe Arrow has, I do not know. My projector is rated for 30,000 hours in low and 20,000 in high, so I would guess 25,000 in medium.

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post #99 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
Ok folks a good update on Lumagen Pro 18Ghz output not seeing this projector as capable 18 ghz display unit. My Lumagen output was locked and limited when wad calibraing HDR, that was advised in HDR webinar from Jim and I forgot to remove that limitation, done factory reset and clicked save, and you need to reboot lumagen and it shows on info 18 Ghz:Y so now outputing signal in 4:2:2 12 bit for [email protected] as needed, support from Lumagen also verified EDID of this projector and has confirmed that it is correct EDID as expected, so please ignore my suggestions about potential issues around EDID of this unit. Happy Days
What Pro firmware are you running for your new Sony? Was waiting to upgrade my Pro firmware until my 885 arrives. Thanks. SJ
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post #100 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 10:01 PM
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885 black crush

Ok, just got the 885 setup and figured out how to switch the language from Japanese to English. I put on Lucy (4k UHD HDR) on- and the out of the box settings are to dark, looked good except too much black crush. I am coming from a calibrated JVC RS600 and Lucy looked much better on it. I've got ChadB coming in January but until then does anyone have settings that would improve the situation. Thanks

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post #101 of 5017 Old 12-13-2017, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, just got the 885 setup and figured out how to switch the language from Japanese to English. I put on Lucy (4k UHD HDR) on- and the out of the box settings are to dark, looked good except too much black crush. I am coming from a calibrated JVC RS600 and Lucy looked much better on it. I've got ChadB coming in January but until then does anyone have settings that would improve the situation. Thanks
Try the settings from Dave Harper I provided a link to earlier in this thread. A tweak here and there and the results are night and day compared to out the box. Lucy looked very good to me. Should get you by until calibration.
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post #102 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 01:33 AM
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How can old movies be remastered in HDR? My understanding is that HDR requires HDR cameras/techniques. If the old movies wheren't shot that way how is it possible?
There are plenty of old movies in HDR, search on Amazon. No doubt scene look will be looked much better with 4k native HDR production camera, but this can be achieved in studios remastering colours and adding HDR as well.

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post #103 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 02:35 AM
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Well it looks like @Wookii will be joining this thread very soon...

Suffice to say, he liked the SONY 760/885 so much during his visit today that he took it home with him

Indeed I will "I liked it so much I bought the review sample!"

It throws a superb image. I'm looking forward to getting it calibrated over the weekend, and will report back then.
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post #104 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 02:58 AM
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How can old movies be remastered in HDR? My understanding is that HDR requires HDR cameras/techniques. If the old movies wheren't shot that way how is it possible?
As I understand it, original film negatives have a wider dynamic range than the standard dynamic range the resulting movies have historically been mastered to. As such the negatives can be rescanned, and mastered to a higher dynamic range, or the full dynamic range available on the original film.
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post #105 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:16 AM
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There are plenty of old movies in HDR, search on Amazon. No doubt scene look will be looked much better with 4k native HDR production camera, but this can be achieved in studios remastering colours and adding HDR as well.
@darksets

There are several ways to produce HDR from older movies, none as good as an original but apparently old classics can be done quite well. A snippet of the article and link below. HDR content is not overly abundant up to this point, so with only few available
studios will undoubtedly churn out "remastered" content from old stock to tap into your double dipping tendencies . I know it's a cheap process for the studios compared to making a new movie but for many movies it does do a commendable job and I'm happy enough to do some double dipping .....on occasion .

Since the classic shows were recorded on film, or more recently high-quality video, these shows can be remastered to show that extra range. Potentially greater color too. With 4K Blu-ray and HDR streaming services, you'll be able to see these shows looking better than you ever remember. Not, of course, as vibrant and detailed as new 4K HDR shows shot on 4K HDR cameras, but better than what you saw on your old 4x3 CRT, and better than the last time the same show came out on DVD or Blu-ray.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-old-tv...verted-to-hdr/
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post #106 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
There are several ways to produce HDR from older movies, none as good as an original but apparently old classics can be done quite well. A snippet of the article and link below. With not a lot of HDR content available studios will
churn out "remastered" anything to get you double dipping. For most popular movies I have been known to double dip a few times .

Since the classic shows were recorded on film, or more recently high-quality video, these shows can be remastered to show that extra range. Potentially greater color too. With 4K Blu-ray and HDR streaming services, you'll be able to see these shows looking better than you ever remember. Not, of course, as vibrant and detailed as new 4K HDR shows shot on 4K HDR cameras, but better than what you saw on your old 4x3 CRT, and better than the last time the same show came out on DVD or Blu-ray.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-old-tv...verted-to-hdr/


Thats explanation should be addressed to a person who wondered about this, not me

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post #107 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:25 AM
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Indeed I will "I liked it so much I bought the review sample!"

It throws a superb image. I'm looking forward to getting it calibrated over the weekend, and will report back then.
You are in Europe yourself obviously . Are you calibrating yourself or having others do this for you ?

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post #108 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:28 AM
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Thats explanation should be addressed to a person who wondered about this, not me
done

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post #109 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
Ok folks a good update on Lumagen Pro 18Ghz output not seeing this projector as capable 18 ghz display unit. My Lumagen output was locked and limited when wad calibraing HDR, that was advised in HDR webinar from Jim and I forgot to remove that limitation, done factory reset and clicked save, and you need to reboot lumagen and it shows on info 18 Ghz:Y so now outputing signal in 4:2:2 12 bit for [email protected] as needed, support from Lumagen also verified EDID of this projector and has confirmed that it is correct EDID as expected, so please ignore my suggestions about potential issues around EDID of this unit. Happy Days
Thanks for the update, that is good to hear as although I tried 2160p/24 4:2:2 10bit last night, I didn't get chance to test 60p. Glad to hear my PS4Pro output won't be an issue via the Lumagen - I'm looking forward to testing the benefit of the low latency mode compared to my RS600.
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post #110 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:31 AM
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You are in Europe yourself obviously . Are you calibrating yourself or having others do this for you ?
Yes, I'm in the UK (remember we spoke about your love of tea?!). Yes, I'll be doing this myself, I have a K10A and Calman, which work fine with the Radiance Pro.
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post #111 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 03:50 AM
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Yes, I'm in the UK (remember we spoke about your love of tea?!). Yes, I'll be doing this myself, I have a K10A and Calman, which work fine with the Radiance Pro.
Sorry, you are correct. I've blended people hear often as forum names are often similar and conversations get intertwined . Tea most of the time, Coffee always first though in the morning .

Are you still using the 2.5HP screen material ? You were considering AT at one point, I was also considering the same . The VW885 has more light on tap but not sure it will even the scales
if you run the AT, the HP is a very bright material. I'm going to try the Paladin first with what I have, then try the ISCO IIIL see what headroom I have then adjust from there . AT means new speakers
as well , not sure I really want to change everything .

Looking forward to your thoughts.

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post #112 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 05:53 AM
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@darksets

There are several ways to produce HDR from older movies, none as good as an original but apparently old classics can be done quite well. A snippet of the article and link below. HDR content is not overly abundant up to this point, so with only few available
studios will undoubtedly churn out "remastered" content from old stock to tap into your double dipping tendencies . I know it's a cheap process for the studios compared to making a new movie but for many movies it does do a commendable job and I'm happy enough to do some double dipping .....on occasion .

Since the classic shows were recorded on film, or more recently high-quality video, these shows can be remastered to show that extra range. Potentially greater color too. With 4K Blu-ray and HDR streaming services, you'll be able to see these shows looking better than you ever remember. Not, of course, as vibrant and detailed as new 4K HDR shows shot on 4K HDR cameras, but better than what you saw on your old 4x3 CRT, and better than the last time the same show came out on DVD or Blu-ray.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-old-tv...verted-to-hdr/
This article is mixing 4k, WCG and HDR. I was only talking about HDR. There isn't much there about converting film based movies to HDR except for some questionable techniques that are in the same category with colorizing B&W movies.
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post #113 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 06:03 AM
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This article is mixing 4k, WCG and HDR. I was only talking about HDR. There isn't much there about converting film based movies to HDR except for some questionable techniques that are in the same category with colorizing B&W movies.
I was just pointing out old movies are being converted to HDR , not specifics . There are obviously threads dedicated to that topic, this is not the one .

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post #114 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 06:06 AM
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As I understand it, original film negatives have a wider dynamic range than the standard dynamic range the resulting movies have historically been mastered to. As such the negatives can be rescanned, and mastered to a higher dynamic range, or the full dynamic range available on the original film.
Yes, after doing some research I found out that it's theoretically possible. But only marginally and only if the extra "stops" were actually employed during filming. I have found no confirmed example of such a case and in another forum Robert A. Harris puts such prospect in doubt.
Anyway, this thread is about the 885 and I don't want to hijack it to a discussion about HDR.
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post #115 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 06:06 AM
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Sorry, you are correct. I've blended people hear often as forum names are often similar and conversations get intertwined . Tea most of the time, Coffee always first though in the morning .

Are you still using the 2.5HP screen material ? You were considering AT at one point, I was also considering the same . The VW885 has more light on tap but not sure it will even the scales
if you run the AT, the HP is a very bright material. I'm going to try the Paladin first with what I have, then try the ISCO IIIL see what headroom I have then adjust from there . AT means new speakers
as well , not sure I really want to change everything .

Looking forward to your thoughts.
Yes, I still have the HP 2.4 material (thought my projector isn't at eye level, and its a retro-reflective screen, so I get around 2.05). I don't feel ready to swap to AT just yet (not least because I only just finished building the 3 way masking screen and went through trauma trying to fit the 2.4 material inside of it), until I can guarantee 50FtL minimum peakY at less than 80% laser. I think I need to wait a couple of generations until we see this type (and price) of projector hitting 3000+ lumens.

However its looking like I may be experiencing an issue I've never had with a projector before - too much light!

For SDR I like a slightly brighter than normal image, around 18FtL (61 nits) or so. Last night when I was playing some SDR clips of Oblivion and others, I set the laser to its minimum setting (0), and judging purely by eye, it looked to me that the image was peaking a fair bit over 18FtL. I may well have to reduce the gain level settings in the Sony in order to get down to 18FtL.
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post #116 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 06:08 AM
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I was just pointing out old movies are being converted to HDR , not specifics . There are obviously threads dedicated to that topic, this is not the one .
Agreed this thread is not about HDR. Sorry for bringing it up, I was just surprised when I read about the conversion.
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post #117 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 06:17 AM
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Yes, I still have the HP 2.4 material (thought my projector isn't at eye level, and its a retro-reflective screen, so I get around 2.05). I don't feel ready to swap to AT just yet (not least because I only just finished building the 3 way masking screen and went through trauma trying to fit the 2.4 material inside of it), until I can guarantee 50FtL minimum peakY at less than 80% laser. I think I need to wait a couple of generations until we see this type (and price) of projector hitting 3000+ lumens.

However its looking like I may be experiencing an issue I've never had with a projector before - too much light!

For SDR I like a slightly brighter than normal image, around 18FtL (61 nits) or so. Last night when I was playing some SDR clips of Oblivion and others, I set the laser to its minimum setting (0), and judging purely by eye, it looked to me that the image was peaking a fair bit over 18FtL. I may well have to reduce the gain level settings in the Sony in order to get down to 18FtL.
I knew you built a 3 way masking system, I may be game for something similar at some point , even hit you up for some help. I have read that laser light disperses light more evenly on the screen so less chance of hot-spotting compared to lamp based. If you have the two to compare might be something worth noting , especially good info for those with materials more prone to hot spot .

Too much light is not something we hear often, of course you do have a high gain material . Maybe Sony will refine the laser dimming a little better down the road to accommodate your concerns .

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post #118 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 06:23 AM
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Agreed this thread is not about HDR. Sorry for bringing it up, I was just surprised when I read about the conversion.
All good, we are equally guilty of getting sidetracked from time to time, most topics , even sidetracks are often just as interesting. It's only the comparing to other projectors we
want to discourage here, keep those topics to the "comparison" threads. Folks here now want to learn how to maximize the potential from their new projector and learn from each other
not deal with marketing attempts or brand bashing. Side topics do and will happen, it's all in good fun , nothing to be sorry about.
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post #119 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I'm in the UK (remember we spoke about your love of tea?!). Yes, I'll be doing this myself, I have a K10A and Calman, which work fine with the Radiance Pro.
I played a little BF1 and COD WW2 on the PS4 Pro the same night I got it installed and had Zero problems. To me, it seems like it may even be more responsive than the 675 if that were possible. And the image quality of the games was outstanding playing in 4K HDR with Dave Harper's HDR tweaks. It looked and felt like I was playing on a giant Flat Panel. It was insane. I'm not using a Lumagen however. I'm going straight through my Denon.

I just remembered that I did have about five video dropouts of about 5 seconds about a minute or two apart while playing BF1 at first where the screen went black like it lost it's connection or something. I power-cycled the Denon and the problem went away. Must have been some sort of handshake issue. That never happened with the 675.
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Last edited by dmillionz; 12-14-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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post #120 of 5017 Old 12-14-2017, 09:36 AM
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You need to make the change to 15 or else you will still have compromised 1:1 pixel integrity and uniformity issues. I questioned that one since I liked it at its default like you. I just don’t think the risk is worth the reward until we know more. And the image quality is compromised somewhat unless you can expertly calibrate it all to 65 and use that for everything.
Hopefully Sony will come out with a firmware update to correct this.
I'm enjoying this projector so much. Was well worth it to upgrade from my 675es.
All I did last weekend was watch a few 4K movies, D*TV programs and all the football games.
Just couldn't get enough of what you call "Eye Candy"
So much for all the chores that I should have done....

Joe, are you going to keep the 885es, or just review it and return it?
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