Samsung The Wall MicroLED 4K TV at CES 2018 - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
it is more of a simultaneous (ANSI checkerboard ) contrast measured in a specified amount of ambient light since that is the environment the signage products are used in. The ultra fine and micro LED are like OLED in that they can on a per pixel basis provide almost infinite CR.

It would be like getting a projector that could deliver 5,000:1 ANSI CR n a room with similar ambient light as you get at dusk.
Yes and no

It's measured full ON/OFF (so full field white 235 as compared with full field black 16) not with an ANSI checkerboard pattern, but as I have already mentioned that's in (to quote SAMSUNG) a "bright environment" hence it's not peak.

There's also a lot of lateral light contamination across pixels which hammers ANSI. Regarding which with respect to The Wall products, SAMSUNG has ended up adding an additional 'contrast enhancing' pane of glass to in front of the MicroLEDs to help combat this.

I don't know what is the actual ANSI contrast performance but when I have opportunity I will measure it.

SAMSUNG reports that the max ON/OFF contrast is 1,000,000:1 for The Wall.


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post #212 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 10:32 AM
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Yes and no

It's measured full ON/OFF (so full field white 235 as compared with full field black 16) not with an ANSI checkerboard pattern, but as I have already mentioned that's in an environment with environmental light and hence it's not peak.

There's also a lot of light contamination across pixels which hammers ANSI. Regarding which with respect to The Wall products, SAMSUNG has ended up adding an additional 'contrast enhancing' pane of glass to in front of the MicroLEDs to help combat this.

SAMSUNG reports that the max contrast is 1,000,000:1 for The Wall.

I have now had the chance to watch a movie 3 times on the Onyx screen and I have come to this conclusion.. it's nowhere close to the quality of the OLED tvs we have.... do you know why? I mean it's still LED right? Also, I swear I could see 'pixels'... or perhaps it's noise... and i find the contrast not as good either (compared to said OLEDs)...
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post #213 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 10:40 AM
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I have now had the chance to watch a movie 3 times on the Onyx screen and I have come to this conclusion.. it's nowhere close to the quality of the OLED tvs we have.... do you know why? I mean it's still LED right? Also, I swear I could see 'pixels'... or perhaps it's noise... and i find the contrast not as good either (compared to said OLEDs)...
Onyx is regular LED and with a large size pixel pitch of 2.5mmm.

It's simply rebadged pre-existing LED signage.

It's NOT MicroLED.

Samsung's The Wall IS MicroLED and the pixel pitch is only 0.8mm.

Apples and oranges

Link: SAMSUNG ONYX LED SIGNAGE CINEMA LED

So yes, it could indeed be argued that OLED TVs offer a superior viewing experience; where the comparison is OLED v LED Signage; and not OLED v MicroLED

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post #214 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 10:43 AM
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Onyx is regular LED and with a large size pixel pitch of 2.5mmm.

It's simply rebadged pre-existing LED signage.

It's NOT MicroLED.

Samsung's The Wall IS MicroLED and the pixel pitch is only 0.8mm.

Apples and oranges

Link: SAMSUNG ONYX LED SIGNAGE CINEMA LED

Understood... but then it's still 4K because it's big enough of a screen... and I am sitting far enough... so, wouldn't it be the same then? Are you saying the quality of the microLEDs are a class above and beyond of the LEDs in Onyx?
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post #215 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 11:27 AM
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Understood... but then it's still 4K because it's big enough of a screen... and I am sitting far enough... so, wouldn't it be the same then? Are you saying the quality of the microLEDs are a class above and beyond of the LEDs in Onyx?
Yes.

However, it's a lot more complicated than that

Firstly, 'same quality' LEDs will perform 'less well' as and when you shrink the size so they have to be of superior efficiency and/or be capable of being driven harder. So imagine what's necessary when going from 2.5m down to 0.8mm

This is one of the reasons why MicroLED has been such a difficult format to bring to market.

There's a lot more to it than this as well.

Ask yourself this, do all makes, models and sizes of LED LCD TVs have the same video performance? What about OLED TVs? Plasma TVs? Etc. etc.

You can't judge the performance of consumer MicroLED based upon a commericial LED signage product.

FYI Samsungs IF range is also simply rebadged LED signage and the technical specs for The Wall are significantly superior in most aspects. For example, 4-5 times the contrast performance, 3 times the peak luminance, superior (perfect) uniformity, superior colour performance, and more.

It's apples with oranges and in more ways than one.

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post #216 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 12:57 PM
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Yes.

However, it's a lot more complicated than that

Firstly, 'same quality' LEDs will perform 'less well' as and when you shrink the size so they have to be of superior efficiency and/or be capable of being driven harder. So imagine what's necessary when going from 2.5m down to 0.8mm

This is one of the reasons why MicroLED has been such a difficult format to bring to market.

There's a lot more to it than this as well.

Ask yourself this, do all makes, models and sizes of LED LCD TVs have the same video performance? What about OLED TVs? Plasma TVs? Etc. etc.

You can't judge the performance of consumer MicroLED based upon a commericial LED signage product.

FYI Samsungs IF range is also simply rebadged LED signage and the technical specs for The Wall are significantly superior in most aspects. For example, 4-5 times the contrast performance, 3 times the peak luminance, superior (perfect) uniformity, superior colour performance, and more.

It's apples with oranges and in more ways than one.

Ah, got it... that's all good news then as what I see at the Onyx can only get so much better in the future...
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post #217 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 01:37 PM
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Yes and no

It's measured full ON/OFF (so full field white 235 as compared with full field black 16) not with an ANSI checkerboard pattern, but as I have already mentioned that's in (to quote SAMSUNG) a "bright environment" hence it's not peak.

There's also a lot of lateral light contamination across pixels which hammers ANSI. Regarding which with respect to The Wall products, SAMSUNG has ended up adding an additional 'contrast enhancing' pane of glass to in front of the MicroLEDs to help combat this.

I don't know what is the actual ANSI contrast performance but when I have opportunity I will measure it.

SAMSUNG reports that the max ON/OFF contrast is 1,000,000:1 for The Wall.

I got a different answer when I spoke to Samsung reps about The Wall.

I asked if the 20,000:1 in 10 lux ambient light was a sequential on/off measurement and was told "No, the measurement was similar to how flat panels are measured with a checkerboard. It was not a full ANSI measurement because they just measured the central white and black square to get the CR". The rep said that the on/off CR was >1,000,000:1 because the pixels are self emissive and each pixel can totally shut off.

It was only 20,000:1 because of light pollution of the black measurement from the ambient reflected light.

Oh well.
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post #218 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 02:04 PM
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I got a different answer when I spoke to Samsung reps about The Wall.

I asked if the 20,000:1 in 10 lux ambient light was a sequential on/off measurement and was told "No, the measurement was similar to how flat panels are measured with a checkerboard. It was not a full ANSI measurement because they just measured the central white and black square to get the CR". The rep said that the on/off CR was >1,000,000:1 because the pixels are self emissive and each pixel can totally shut off.

It was only 20,000:1 because of light pollution of the black measurement from the ambient reflected light.

Oh well.
Yes, that is confusing. It's also very strange to post a figure labelled "CONTRAST" that's neither the ON/OFF or ANSI... Measuring one square for black and white using an ANSI contrast test pattern is completely useless information; so that sounds a bit odd to me

Either way, I think that what @Art Sonneborn was alluding to is are those figures the maximum native ON/OFF Contrast, which we can say for sure that they are absolutely not, because they are with respect to a light environment; and the figure he is looking for is 1,000,000:1 with respect to The Wall, but we don't know (yet) what are the reported figures for the IF range.

As it happens SAMSUNG are paying me a visit on Monday. I'm dealing with the International Sales & Marketing Director for The Wall and IF Series products and one of the main technical guys will be attending too (they are flying over from Korea). I'll get to the bottom of what's what regarding this particular matter and report back what it is precisely that SAMSUNG is claiming/reporting here.

To be honest, this is just one of the reasons why manufacturer reported figures, and especially regarding contrast, drives me nuts, because it's never reliable useful information, which is why the first thing I ever do when evaluating a new product is to take my own measurements. And I'll be doing precisely that with respect to these products as and when I have the opportunity to do so. Then I'll tell you what it really is!

EDIT: SAMSUNG has confirmed that it is indeed native ON/OFF sequential contrast and hence NOT measured via ANSI contrast test pattern, whether inner squares or otherwise


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post #219 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 02:15 PM
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Ah, got it... that's all good news then as what I see at the Onyx can only get so much better in the future...
I hate to say it but Onyx is not really very good. It's a step up as compared with the bloody-awful standard type of commercial cinema projectors, but it's nothing like as good as it could be.

For starters when to blow up the screen size to upwards of 10 metres / 33 ft wide this is when you really need to increase resolution to 8K or else with LED signage you are going to delineate the pixels, which I believe that you yourself are seeing; if only to display native 4K upscaled to 8K.

The full size The Wall Luxury by the way, being a 292" size 16:9 diagonal and 6.5 metres / 21 ft 4" wide, is precisely that, 8K; and that's with 0.8mm pixel pitch. So trust me when I say that you ain't going to see those pixels!

But the other aspects of what contributes towards good video image quality need to be improved as well.

The whole concept of premium cinemas like Samsung Onyx is to provide a superior experience as compared with standard commercial cinemas, but also in reaction to consumer/home auidiovisual evolving to become better and better in quality. So when folks' reference is their OLED TV at home it's no good if the premium cinema video looks significantly comparatively inferior. So in short, in order to succeed, the video performance not only needs to surpass that of other standard commercial cinemas but also compete with the quality of consumer displays. And Samsung Onyx does not currently do that. And the audio definitely doesn't do that! So they really kinda need to take appropriate action to improve that situation.


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post #220 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 02:29 PM
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The full size The Wall Luxury by the way, being a 292" size 16:9 diagonal and 6.5 metres / 21 ft 4" wide, is precisely that, 8K; and that's with 0.8mm pixel pitch. So trust me when I say that you ain't going to see those pixels!


292 inch diagonal 16:9 ..... equals 21 inch wide .....Holy Moly...
That would be a 21 inch CIH - 8K screen with super high contrast...
I live in the South so heat remains a question.... hope that gets resolved
I would turn the whole home theater on its head.. with this screen - no more dark bat cave and a multi functional area so you don't have to 'go away' to watch a movie within your own home.. audio would be compromised (a) because of the solid screen (b) If the area is not contained in a room built into a bunker instead of a free flowing design.. but usability will be off the charts increased
Very interesting...
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post #221 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 02:56 PM
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I would turn the whole home theater on its head.. with this screen - no more dark bat cave and a multi functional area so you don't have to 'go away' to watch a movie within your own home.. audio would be compromised (a) because of the solid screen (b) If the area is not contained in a room built into a bunker instead of a free flowing design.. but usability will be off the charts increased
Very interesting...
It won't be cheap, but for those who can afford it, yes it's going to be incredible.


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post #222 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 06:07 PM
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... Measuring one square for black and white using an ANSI contrast test pattern is completely useless information; so that sounds a bit odd to me :
I have to disagree with you.

Right now on/off CR is useless given that we now have dynamic dimming systems that can totally shut off on a black screen or get so close the the resulting measurement is meaningless.


The ANSI pattern was designed to give a more meaningful figure-of-merit of an intra-scene contrast but it is very tedious because you have to take 16 measurements. 12 years ago Greg Rogers popularized the M-ANSI which just measured the center 4 squares, so just 4 measurements. It became somewhat of a standard for projector measurements on AVS.

Today the intra-scene contrast measurement that is popular in the flat panel industry (used by RTings.com and HDTVTest) and also in the broadcast/pro space is a 2 measurement system that just measures the center white and center black squares or a full field white and a center black square.

The benefits are obvious:

1) You are measuring a single frame pattern so the "turn off on a full black screen" DD systems gets defeated.
2) You are measuring the center black (surrounded by 4 white squares) so you capture the black level with the worse case light pollution.

Give it a try!

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post #223 of 340 Old 07-19-2018, 07:36 PM
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I have to disagree with you.

Right now on/off CR is useless given that we now have dynamic dimming systems that can totally shut off on a black screen or get so close the the resulting measurement is meaningless.
Well sorry, but I have to strongly disgree with you

Published ∞:1 figures for ON/OFF contrast ratios, with dynamic dimming systems that can totally shut off on a black screen, are "useless" in that they are completely meaningless with respect to telling you anything with respect to what is the ON/OFF contrast performance with actual content. For this reason I roll my eyes every single time I see them.

In such circumstances, such as with respect to the SONY 885/760ES by the way (since I saw you asked the question over in the owner's thread, let me answer that for you here at the same time ) absolutely the WRONG way to measure ON/OFF contrast with full dynamic dimming that will trigger shutting off of the light engine in response to a frame of full field black 16, is to measure full field white 235 vs full field black 16. The CORRECT method is to input a full field black 16 with singular white pixel in one of the corners of the image, such that the shutting off of the light engine is not triggered and thereby you can accurately measure what is the ON/OFF contrast without the influence of the dynamic dimming triggering shutting off of the light engine.

This yields the true ON/OFF performance measurement, being the ON/OFF contrast performance with actual content, which is absolutely NOT "useless" !

For example, in the instance of the SONY 885/760ES this reveals that there is not a significant difference with respect to ON/OFF contrast performance with the dimming set to full as compared with limited and overall only a circa 40% increase as compared with OFF. And that the maximum ON/OFF contrast performance of that projector is circa 23,000:1. How is this "useless"? In short, it's not. It's extremely vital information.

Hence, the only time an ON/OFF contrast ratio measurement is "useless" is when it's not carried out properly or in the correct manner.

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Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
The ANSI pattern was designed to give a more meaningful figure-of-merit of an intra-scene contrast but it is very tedious because you have to take 16 measurements. 12 years ago Greg Rogers popularized the M-ANSI which just measured the center 4 squares, so just 4 measurements. It became somewhat of a standard for projector measurements on AVS.

Today the intra-scene contrast measurement that is popular in the flat panel industry (used by RTings.com and HDTVTest) and also in the broadcast/pro space is a 2 measurement system that just measures the center white and center black squares or a full field white and a center black square.

The benefits are obvious:

1) You are measuring a single frame pattern so the "turn off on a full black screen" DD systems gets defeated.
2) You are measuring the center black (surrounded by 4 white squares) so you capture the black level with the worse case light pollution.

Give it a try!
Sorry, but that's just being lazy. These days (as opposed to 12 years ago) with the right equipment and experience taking those 16 measurements hardly takes any time at all.

There is solid rationality and science behind the ANSI contrast parameter and corresponding checkerboard pattern. Taking a single measurement of only one square for white and black is not even remotely as useful information as the proper ANSI contrast measurement. So don't be lazy! Taking a single measurement in the middle of the screen is just plain wrong and not very helpful for so many reasons. I could give you a very lengthy list. At the top of that list is the fact that most projectors do not have perfect luminance uniformity across the whole image and the variance can be considerable, causing the 8 white (and black) measurements to also have considerable variance. Wherein, a singular measurement in the middle is completely meaningless and hence useless. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

So if you don't mind I'll carry on taking my measurements properly and accurately and continue to report accurate and useful ON/OFF contrast and ANSI Contrast performance.

And as and when I have opportunity to take those measurements with respect to SAMSUNG's The Wall and IF series I will be sure to publish those measurements on here. Actual accurate ON/OFF and ANSI Contrast measurements are a damn sight more useful than a singular measurement of one ANSI square, absolutely no question about that.

So sorry to hear you disagree. But with with respect I cannot agree with you and for very good reasons.

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post #224 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 02:00 AM
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Excellent question! And I'm guessing the question-behind-the-question

Yes, it's ON/OFF and hence sequential contrast; however (unhelpfully and confusingly) it's NOT peak/maximum values but typical values in a "Bright Environment", so the values would be significantly higher in a dark and/or blacked out environment.

I don't know what is the peak figures for the IF range, but with respect to The Wall the equivalent published figure is 20,000:1 but the peak ON/OFF sequential performance capability according to SAMSUNG is reported to be 1,000,000:1.
At ISE I was told the real on-off contrast of the Cinema-LED is 100K:1, 500 nits vs 0,005(?) nits, The CinemaLED is based on the 2.5mm IF. So 1600->0.00016 nit? So what are we talking about the individual LED (package) or the dark room full display performance, as in the CinemaLED?
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post #225 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 02:05 AM
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Alternative to shutter control made 1200:1 specced single chippers into ∞:1 machines.

HDTVTest.co.uk uses 140 points measurements.
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post #226 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 02:37 AM
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...made 1200:1 specced single chippers into ∞:1 machines.
Isn't that the worst thing ever Donald? In all such instances because the light is shut off with full field black, but the ON/OFF contrast is otherwise so very low, where this includes absolutely everyting else except full field black, the 'blacks' are in fact light gray due to the very low native ON/OFF contrast performance, which is everything from, single non-black pixel to full field white

In such examples, there's always a very noticeable jump when transitioning from full field black to any actual content because of this. In short, it's very distracting and looks horrible.

Either way, "∞:1" tells you absolutely NOTHING regarding what is the ON/OFF performance with video content; and hence is a useless technical statistic that doesn't provide any information, further to telling you that its does full fade to black via shutting off the light engine in response to a full field black 16 signal. Where "Full Fade To Black" supplies precisely the same information, but without being potentially confusing and/or misleading to folks who aren't in the know.

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post #227 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 02:44 AM
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At ISE I was told the real on-off contrast of the Cinema-LED is 100K:1, 500 nits vs 0,005(?) nits, The CinemaLED is based on the 2.5mm IF. So 1600->0.00016 nit? So what are we talking about the individual LED (package) or the dark room full display performance, as in the CinemaLED?
Nope that'd be 0.016 nits for black level. 1600 / 0.016 = 100,000:1

With respect to The Wall Professional this is claimed to have 1,000,000:1 peak ON/OFF contrast, so that would be 0.0016 nits black level; which would also mean that it has 10 times better ON/OFF contrast performance as compared with the IF range

It will be interesting to find out what will be the black level for The Wall Luxury which has a higher 2,000 nits peak luminance. If the black level doesn't raise proportionately than that would mean it's peak ON/OFF contrast is over 1,000,000:1

And in answer to your question I believe we are talking about full ON/OFF within a blacked out non-reflective environment; hence maximum ON/OFF sequential contrast. And this is with the contrast enhancing optical glass screen that helps to combat the lateral light scatter and hence inter-pixel contrast contamination as well as being anti-glare and hence helping with respect to environmental light reflections.


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post #228 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 04:07 AM
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That's what I was saying. But for the CinemaLED that was the capability of the full display, the individual LEDs and so on could do better the samsung representative said. So is it 1 million:1 on the latter level or on the reel full display level.
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post #229 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 06:30 AM
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Alternative to shutter control made 1200:1 specced single chippers into ∞:1 machines.

HDTVTest.co.uk uses 140 points measurements.
For color, not contrast. How do you take 140 point measurements on 16 squares?

If you want to measure all 16 squares by all means do so. It turns out that measuring just the center square(s) does not change the relative comparison values.

Also for high contrast projectors the black level is so low that it requires specialized tubes and precise meters to take accurate per square measurements.

This is not new, There are detailed threads on this 12 years ago, including the issues, rational and methods.

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post #230 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 06:51 AM
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Maybe it's designed for folks that live in places like Montana or Alaska. That would be perfect for binge watching through a cold long winter.
Just play that Crackling fire video and you would be all set.
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post #231 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 07:51 AM
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for high contrast projectors the black level is so low that it requires specialized tubes and precise meters to take accurate per square measurements.
Irrespectively with respect to projectors you have to use the right equipment in the correct manner and method in order to accurately measure what is the black level of the 8 ANSI squares. It's actually very easy if you have the right equipment and know how.

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Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
If you want to measure all 16 squares by all means do so. It turns out that measuring just the center square(s) does not change the relative comparison values.
I agree that with respect to emissive displays the luminance unformity issue that afflicts most projectors does not apply, but all the measurements for each and every sqaure will not be the same. There are a considerable amount of other significantly influencing factors. With a large size video wall for example there is going to likely be considerable and highly variable ambient light reflections that can hammer ANSI contrast in a widely non-uniform manner, for starters. And that's by no means all.

With a much smaller sized TV the variance would potential be to a lesser degree but not with respect to the giant sized screens that we are talking about here.

That said, my hope is that SAMSUNG's specially developed 'contrast enhancing' glass panel which is also anti-glares helps to minimize such factors; but I won't know for sure what is the true performance until I take appropriate measurements.

I tell you what, I will measure all of: (1) the centre white and black squares only; (2) the centre two black and white squares; and (3) all 16; and post all three. Then we can see what is the situation in this particular instance.

Should be interesting.

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post #232 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
That's what I was saying. But for the CinemaLED that was the capability of the full display, the individual LEDs and so on could do better the samsung representative said. So is it 1 million:1 on the latter level or on the reel full display level.
Do you think SAMSUNG ONYX is 1,000,000:1 contrast?

Have you seen it?

.
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post #233 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 12:16 PM
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Onyx was claimed to be 100K not 1000K to 1, yes I saw the two 2D and two 3D clips at ISE on its 2K demo in the dark room, like yourself.

As for modular and multi display uniformity this is a key issue and not always done right, still.
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post #234 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
That's what I was saying. But for the CinemaLED that was the capability of the full display, the individual LEDs and so on could do better the samsung representative said. So is it 1 million:1 on the latter level or on the reel full display level.
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Onyx was claimed to be 100K not 1000K to 1, yes I saw the two 2D and two 3D clips at ISE on its 2K demo in the dark room, like yourself.

As for modular and multi display uniformity this is a key issue and not always done right, still.
Donald,
Samsung ONYX = CinemaLED
and it's 100K:1

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post #235 of 340 Old 07-20-2018, 01:31 PM
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What I have been saying all along, and repeatedly;-).

So, is the comparable figure for the Wall 1 million to one?
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post #237 of 340 Old 07-22-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Built-in sound system
Anyone building a home theater cares about this? hahaha
You are absolutely right. This is pointless and will almost certainly sound rubbish

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post #238 of 340 Old 07-23-2018, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Just so I know that number is sequential contrast ?

Art
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Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post
I got a different answer when I spoke to Samsung reps about The Wall.

I asked if the 20,000:1 in 10 lux ambient light was a sequential on/off measurement and was told "No, the measurement was similar to how flat panels are measured with a checkerboard. It was not a full ANSI measurement because they just measured the central white and black square to get the CR". The rep said that the on/off CR was >1,000,000:1 because the pixels are self emissive and each pixel can totally shut off.

It was only 20,000:1 because of light pollution of the black measurement from the ambient reflected light.

Oh well.
I can now confirm that YES the published figures are indeed native ON/OFF sequential contrast ratios, with bright environments (defined as 10 LUX light level shined onto the screen).

Confirmed by SAMSUNG The Wall and IF Series global marketing director, business development manager, and head technical guy, who just met with me having flown from Korea.

@HoustonHoyaFan it would appear that you were misinformed.

The official line with respect to the maximum native ON/OFF sequential contrast ratios are that they are theoretically infinite because the pixels are self emissive and each pixel can totally shut off. I will take some proper accurate measurements within blacked out environment to confirm what is the actual performance in this regard as and when.

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post #239 of 340 Old 07-23-2018, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Wow, if my understanding of BTU's is correct, thats a LOT of heat Nigel (if I am right in assuming 'SF' is 'square foot'?). The Wall is what, 63 sq ft, so thats 14,163 BTU per hour or 4,150 Watts - the same as two standard 2Kw oil heaters running at full whack! Even if in normal operation it only outputs half that, its still going to heat up an average sized sealed, sound insulated HT VERY quickly indeed.
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Originally Posted by mike123abc View Post
https://displaysolutions.samsung.com...low_180530.pdf Lists the power consumption at 66 watts per meter squared max, 60 typical. 63 square feet is a bit less than 6 square meters, so if the spec sheet is correct the max would be less than 400 watts. Of course all the power is not going to waste heat, it is making some light.
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Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post
Especially since LED is comparitively so much more light efficient than other light sources.
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Maybe it's designed for folks that live in places like Montana or Alaska. That would be perfect for binge watching through a cold long winter.
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Yea - this thread is really heating up!
I can now confirm that with respect to The Wall Professional 146" the heat output is such that the screen temperature will peak at circa 40 degrees celcius. So, yes there is quite a lot of heat produced, so additional cooling is probably necessary in many instances.


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post #240 of 340 Old 07-23-2018, 04:10 AM
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I'm going to answer this question here because it's relevant to this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Huh? How do you guys (believe to) know this? Have you had MicroLED + OLED in your house and the time to carefully compare both for several months at least, in order to be able to say anything about burn-in?

With MicroLED, each pixel is its own light source, same as OLED. So both image technologies by design will suffer from burn-in to some degreee. Just as plasma did. The only way you will not get any burn-in is if:

1) Either the light source does not get dimmer at all over its life time.
2) Or the light source gets dimmer *exactly* the same way for each pixel and sub-pixel.

Of course it's possible that MicroLED might have a longer life-time (get dimmer slower) which should reduce burn-in problems. Also OLED may have other burn-in problems than just uneven life-time wear. Still, any technology where each pixel has its own independent light source which dims over the life time *has to* have burn-in issues to some degree - unless there's additional hard/software which somehow counters this problem.

Proof: If you have a 16:9 display, but watch 95% scope movies with black bars, after a while the pixels in the scope black bars will be visibly brighter than the other pixels, because the other pixels will already have consumed some of their initial brightness, while the black bar pixels will still be at nearly initial brightness. Ergo: "Burn-in".

I think you may be a bit too hasty declaring MicroLED to be free from any problems. Let's wait and see, ok?
The official response from SAMSUNG with respect to the question of burn-in and The Wall MicroLED video wall range is:

"Burn-in is not possible. It will not be happening under any circumstances with any of SAMSUNG's MicroLED displays"

I then asked about luminance uniformity over time, wherein the response is:

"With The Wall series SAMSUNG guarantees perfect uniformity for a minimum of 5 years. There should not be any changes in uniformity after that but SAMSUNG guarantees this for 5 years"

So, that's the official line... The jury is out whether or not in reality this is indeed the case but SAMSUNG is pretty positive that nobody will be experiencing any instances of burn-in with their MicroLED products.

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