Panamorph DCR Paladin Owners Thread - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 947 Old 04-12-2019, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I don't understand the complexities of this, but have communicated with those who do. Kris Deering indicated "The Lumagen will do whatever you want, but the JVC won’t accept a 4096 3D input and it won’t scale 3D to 4096. The JVC will only accept 3D as 1080p."

Bottom line, though, is that 3D is problematic for the new JVC Projectors when used with the DCR lens. You can pursue this further on the Lumagen thread, for a more complete explanation, and to confirm that this is the case. But this is my understanding, which was also confirmed by Shawn Kelly of Panamorph.
Ah I see, sorry I wasn't aware the JVC's were limited to a 1080p input for 3D (though it makes sense given that is the only format it's available in) - though that would be a JVC limitation, not a Lumagen one - that said I'm surprised there isn't a work around, like having the Lumagen perform a 6% vertical compression (and add black bars that could be zoomed off screen with a lens memory), to counter the 6% horizontal squeeze, even if outputting as 1080p.
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post #932 of 947 Old 04-12-2019, 05:10 AM
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Using Anamorphic C with 16:9 content will remove the top and bottom 10% of the picture, which is what it does with 2.40:1 content. In the latter case, it's removing the black bars, in the former case, it's removing actual content.

Zooming is not relevant, because the Anamorphic mode is 'stretching' the central content part of the 2.40:1 content (that is the area inside the black bars), to virtually the full height of the chip. The lens, the 'vertical compression' type, then 'squeezes' it back down to its original aspect ratio. You are therefore using the full array of pixels on your chip (increasing both pixel density and light output), whereas before you were throwing away the pixels occupied by the black letterbox bars.

The Projector doesn't "know" if this is 16:9 or 2.40:1 content. It 'throws away' the area of that letterbox area, and it can't be reclaimed.

So with 16:9 content, you either use Anamorphic B, with the result being a 6% horizontal Squeeze, or Anamorphic C, which will maintain proper anamorphic ratio, at the cost of throwing away the top and bottom 10% of content.

Without an external video processor like the Lumagen Radiance Pro, there is no way of avoiding some type of compromise here. And even the Lumagen doesn't solve the problem with 3D content, such that a 6% squeeze is unavoidable no matter what you do, when used with the DCR lens.

To avoid these compromises, you have to remove the DCR from the lens path.

I will buy the RS2000 or its successor, if and only if, JVC provides the proper Anamorphic modes for all content. Removing the lens from the path is not an acceptable option for me, while it may be for others.
Thanks, I understand now.
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post #933 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 05:29 AM
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Or you can put together a cheap HTPC running madVR, and you will always get the correct scaling there as you can output the proper full-panel resolution and not have to deal with the 6% shrink at all
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post #934 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 06:06 AM
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Or you can put together a cheap HTPC running madVR, and you will always get the correct scaling there as you can output the proper full-panel resolution and not have to deal with the 6% shrink at all
Based on statements from Kris Deering, and Shawn Kelly, for the Lumagen at least, while this is true for regular 16:9 content, it will not work for 3D content. See my post a few replies above.

Since this is a JVC based limitation, and not due to any deficiency on the Lumagen side, I would think this would apply to using MadVR as well.

If either of these solutions solved *both* 2D and 3D anamorphic issues, I would consider going down that road. But since, afaik, 3D would still require removing the lens from the light path to avoid that 6% horizontal squeeze, I'm just going to wait for JVC to fix the fundamental problem.

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post #935 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
Or you can put together a cheap HTPC running madVR, and you will always get the correct scaling there as you can output the proper full-panel resolution and not have to deal with the 6% shrink at all [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Based on statements from Kris Deering, and Shawn Kelly, for the Lumagen at least, while this is true for regular 16:9 content, it will not work for 3D content. See my post a few replies above.

Since this is a JVC based limitation, and not due to any deficiency on the Lumagen side, I would think this would apply to using MadVR as well.

If either of these solutions solved *both* 2D and 3D anamorphic issues, I would consider going down that road. But since, afaik, 3D would still require removing the lens from the light path to avoid that 6% horizontal squeeze, I'm just going to wait for JVC to fix the fundamental problem.
I admit I do not know anything about the 3d issue, but I would think madvr could still solve it, as madvr can scale to any resolution and account for the anamorphic lens at the same time---so you wouldn't have to use the JVC anamorphic settings a b or c, and therefore wouldn't encounter the 6% squeeze problem at all.

Edit- again to emphasize though, I have zero 3d knowledge here, so if the jvc refuses to accept any input other than 1080p if the signal includes 3d info then obviously you are right. But I also have eliminated all 3d movies from my library, so I cannot test this for myself, sadly
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post #936 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
I admit I do not know anything about the 3d issue, but I would think madvr could still solve it, as madvr can scale to any resolution and account for the anamorphic lens at the same time---so you wouldn't have to use the JVC anamorphic settings a b or c, and therefore wouldn't encounter the 6% squeeze problem at all.

Edit- again to emphasize though, I have zero 3d knowledge here, so if the jvc refuses to accept any input other than 1080p if the signal includes 3d info then obviously you are right. But I also have eliminated all 3d movies from my library, so I cannot test this for myself, sadly
I have neither the Lumagen nor MadVR, so don't have any direct knowledge or experience. But your edited statement summarizes my understanding of what Kris had told me. My first reaction was that there must be some way to give the JVC what it needs in this regard, but if those guys say no, then that's likely just the way it is.

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post #937 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I understand now.
The MadVR Envy would be the perfect match for the DCR when it is launched and as the MadVR does what ddgl says - auto sensing AR control - this will boost the usability of the DCR even further and require no resizing of images.
Now if the MadVR can use full 4K panel on 16:9 for the Sony VW 5000 with the DCR in place that would be icing on the cake in my case as today with the DCR in place using Sony processing that does not happen - so more pixels and brighter image in 16:9 - I may stand to be corrected on this but that is my understanding today for 16:9 content.
And what about 1:85 and 2:0 - and changing AR in Nolan movies - more interesting opportunities.
HTPC is not something I would want due to the hassles of installing one - and running one - been there and done that in the early 90's.
I am waiting for this one anxiously...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...on-thread.html
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post #938 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 08:31 AM
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The MadVR Envy would be the perfect match for the DCR when it is launched and as the MadVR does what ddgl says - auto sensing AR control - this will boost the usability of the DCR even further and require no resizing of images.

Now if the MadVR can use full 4K panel on 16:9 for the Sony VW 5000 with the DCR in place that would be icing on the cake in my case as today with the DCR in place using Sony processing that does not happen - so more pixels and brighter image in 16:9 - I may stand to be corrected on this but that is my understanding today for 16:9 content.

And what about 1:85 and 2:0 - and changing AR in Nolan movies - more interesting opportunities.

HTPC is not something I would want due to the hassles of installing one - and running one - been there and done that in the early 90's.


HTPC in the early 90’s?!? What was that like?
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post #939 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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HTPC in the early 90’s?!? What was that like?
'Exaggerating'
Also had more time on my hand to fiddle with things.
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post #940 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 12:12 PM
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Hey guys, stupid question here:

What's the difference in function / benefits between the Panamorph DCR and the ISCO IIIL 1.33x lenses?

Cheers
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post #941 of 947 Old 04-13-2019, 12:36 PM
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'Exaggerating'

Also had more time on my hand to fiddle with things.


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post #942 of 947 Old 04-16-2019, 02:50 PM
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Sort of a weird question but. I would like to find a case for my DCR lens when I take it off for 16:9 content until the Envy ships. Something like you can get on Amazon hard case with foam or something softer? I of course would like something to be sure it does not scratch the lens.

Has anyone got something like that? Just want it to be safe when off the projector. Any issues anyone can see?

Thanks,

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post #943 of 947 Old 04-16-2019, 05:09 PM
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Sort of a weird question but. I would like to find a case for my DCR lens when I take it off for 16:9 content until the Envy ships. Something like you can get on Amazon hard case with foam or something softer? I of course would like something to be sure it does not scratch the lens.

Has anyone got something like that? Just want it to be safe when off the projector. Any issues anyone can see?

Thanks,
Get a padded wine glass case, and maybe seal it in a gallon zip lock to make it dust proof too. Then later, you can carry stemware to parties or picnics !
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post #944 of 947 Old 04-16-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Sort of a weird question but. I would like to find a case for my DCR lens when I take it off for 16:9 content until the Envy ships. Something like you can get on Amazon hard case with foam or something softer? I of course would like something to be sure it does not scratch the lens.



Has anyone got something like that? Just want it to be safe when off the projector. Any issues anyone can see?



Thanks,


I was actually thinking about this the other day. Currently I’m putting to halfway back into its foam shipping container.

Maybe a Pelican case of some sort?
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post #945 of 947 Old Yesterday, 04:48 AM
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I was actually thinking about this the other day. Currently I’m putting to halfway back into its foam shipping container.

Maybe a Pelican case of some sort?
I think a Pelican case is what I want but was wondering if anyone has come across one with soft enough foam or something so it will not harm the glass.

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post #946 of 947 Old Yesterday, 05:13 AM
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I think a Pelican case is what I want but was wondering if anyone has come across one with soft enough foam or something so it will not harm the glass.


Just curious - how would the foam harm the glass? Scratch it?
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post #947 of 947 Old Yesterday, 10:05 AM
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Just curious - how would the foam harm the glass? Scratch it?

Great question, but some of that foam I think has particles in it that seem rough. I could always put a soft cotton cloth to line it.

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