Panamorph DCR Paladin Owners Thread - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 1027 Old 04-12-2019, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I don't understand the complexities of this, but have communicated with those who do. Kris Deering indicated "The Lumagen will do whatever you want, but the JVC won’t accept a 4096 3D input and it won’t scale 3D to 4096. The JVC will only accept 3D as 1080p."

Bottom line, though, is that 3D is problematic for the new JVC Projectors when used with the DCR lens. You can pursue this further on the Lumagen thread, for a more complete explanation, and to confirm that this is the case. But this is my understanding, which was also confirmed by Shawn Kelly of Panamorph.
Ah I see, sorry I wasn't aware the JVC's were limited to a 1080p input for 3D (though it makes sense given that is the only format it's available in) - though that would be a JVC limitation, not a Lumagen one - that said I'm surprised there isn't a work around, like having the Lumagen perform a 6% vertical compression (and add black bars that could be zoomed off screen with a lens memory), to counter the 6% horizontal squeeze, even if outputting as 1080p.
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post #932 of 1027 Old 04-12-2019, 05:10 AM
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Using Anamorphic C with 16:9 content will remove the top and bottom 10% of the picture, which is what it does with 2.40:1 content. In the latter case, it's removing the black bars, in the former case, it's removing actual content.

Zooming is not relevant, because the Anamorphic mode is 'stretching' the central content part of the 2.40:1 content (that is the area inside the black bars), to virtually the full height of the chip. The lens, the 'vertical compression' type, then 'squeezes' it back down to its original aspect ratio. You are therefore using the full array of pixels on your chip (increasing both pixel density and light output), whereas before you were throwing away the pixels occupied by the black letterbox bars.

The Projector doesn't "know" if this is 16:9 or 2.40:1 content. It 'throws away' the area of that letterbox area, and it can't be reclaimed.

So with 16:9 content, you either use Anamorphic B, with the result being a 6% horizontal Squeeze, or Anamorphic C, which will maintain proper anamorphic ratio, at the cost of throwing away the top and bottom 10% of content.

Without an external video processor like the Lumagen Radiance Pro, there is no way of avoiding some type of compromise here. And even the Lumagen doesn't solve the problem with 3D content, such that a 6% squeeze is unavoidable no matter what you do, when used with the DCR lens.

To avoid these compromises, you have to remove the DCR from the lens path.

I will buy the RS2000 or its successor, if and only if, JVC provides the proper Anamorphic modes for all content. Removing the lens from the path is not an acceptable option for me, while it may be for others.
Thanks, I understand now.
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post #933 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 05:29 AM
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Or you can put together a cheap HTPC running madVR, and you will always get the correct scaling there as you can output the proper full-panel resolution and not have to deal with the 6% shrink at all
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post #934 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 06:06 AM
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Or you can put together a cheap HTPC running madVR, and you will always get the correct scaling there as you can output the proper full-panel resolution and not have to deal with the 6% shrink at all
Based on statements from Kris Deering, and Shawn Kelly, for the Lumagen at least, while this is true for regular 16:9 content, it will not work for 3D content. See my post a few replies above.

Since this is a JVC based limitation, and not due to any deficiency on the Lumagen side, I would think this would apply to using MadVR as well.

If either of these solutions solved *both* 2D and 3D anamorphic issues, I would consider going down that road. But since, afaik, 3D would still require removing the lens from the light path to avoid that 6% horizontal squeeze, I'm just going to wait for JVC to fix the fundamental problem.

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post #935 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
Or you can put together a cheap HTPC running madVR, and you will always get the correct scaling there as you can output the proper full-panel resolution and not have to deal with the 6% shrink at all [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Based on statements from Kris Deering, and Shawn Kelly, for the Lumagen at least, while this is true for regular 16:9 content, it will not work for 3D content. See my post a few replies above.

Since this is a JVC based limitation, and not due to any deficiency on the Lumagen side, I would think this would apply to using MadVR as well.

If either of these solutions solved *both* 2D and 3D anamorphic issues, I would consider going down that road. But since, afaik, 3D would still require removing the lens from the light path to avoid that 6% horizontal squeeze, I'm just going to wait for JVC to fix the fundamental problem.
I admit I do not know anything about the 3d issue, but I would think madvr could still solve it, as madvr can scale to any resolution and account for the anamorphic lens at the same time---so you wouldn't have to use the JVC anamorphic settings a b or c, and therefore wouldn't encounter the 6% squeeze problem at all.

Edit- again to emphasize though, I have zero 3d knowledge here, so if the jvc refuses to accept any input other than 1080p if the signal includes 3d info then obviously you are right. But I also have eliminated all 3d movies from my library, so I cannot test this for myself, sadly
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post #936 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
I admit I do not know anything about the 3d issue, but I would think madvr could still solve it, as madvr can scale to any resolution and account for the anamorphic lens at the same time---so you wouldn't have to use the JVC anamorphic settings a b or c, and therefore wouldn't encounter the 6% squeeze problem at all.

Edit- again to emphasize though, I have zero 3d knowledge here, so if the jvc refuses to accept any input other than 1080p if the signal includes 3d info then obviously you are right. But I also have eliminated all 3d movies from my library, so I cannot test this for myself, sadly
I have neither the Lumagen nor MadVR, so don't have any direct knowledge or experience. But your edited statement summarizes my understanding of what Kris had told me. My first reaction was that there must be some way to give the JVC what it needs in this regard, but if those guys say no, then that's likely just the way it is.

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post #937 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I understand now.
The MadVR Envy would be the perfect match for the DCR when it is launched and as the MadVR does what ddgl says - auto sensing AR control - this will boost the usability of the DCR even further and require no resizing of images.
Now if the MadVR can use full 4K panel on 16:9 for the Sony VW 5000 with the DCR in place that would be icing on the cake in my case as today with the DCR in place using Sony processing that does not happen - so more pixels and brighter image in 16:9 - I may stand to be corrected on this but that is my understanding today for 16:9 content.
And what about 1:85 and 2:0 - and changing AR in Nolan movies - more interesting opportunities.
HTPC is not something I would want due to the hassles of installing one - and running one - been there and done that in the early 90's.
I am waiting for this one anxiously...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vi...on-thread.html
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post #938 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 08:31 AM
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The MadVR Envy would be the perfect match for the DCR when it is launched and as the MadVR does what ddgl says - auto sensing AR control - this will boost the usability of the DCR even further and require no resizing of images.

Now if the MadVR can use full 4K panel on 16:9 for the Sony VW 5000 with the DCR in place that would be icing on the cake in my case as today with the DCR in place using Sony processing that does not happen - so more pixels and brighter image in 16:9 - I may stand to be corrected on this but that is my understanding today for 16:9 content.

And what about 1:85 and 2:0 - and changing AR in Nolan movies - more interesting opportunities.

HTPC is not something I would want due to the hassles of installing one - and running one - been there and done that in the early 90's.


HTPC in the early 90’s?!? What was that like?
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post #939 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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HTPC in the early 90’s?!? What was that like?
'Exaggerating'
Also had more time on my hand to fiddle with things.
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post #940 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 12:12 PM
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Hey guys, stupid question here:

What's the difference in function / benefits between the Panamorph DCR and the ISCO IIIL 1.33x lenses?

Cheers

---------------


My build thread
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post #941 of 1027 Old 04-13-2019, 12:36 PM
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'Exaggerating'

Also had more time on my hand to fiddle with things.


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post #942 of 1027 Old 04-16-2019, 02:50 PM
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Sort of a weird question but. I would like to find a case for my DCR lens when I take it off for 16:9 content until the Envy ships. Something like you can get on Amazon hard case with foam or something softer? I of course would like something to be sure it does not scratch the lens.

Has anyone got something like that? Just want it to be safe when off the projector. Any issues anyone can see?

Thanks,

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Sort of a weird question but. I would like to find a case for my DCR lens when I take it off for 16:9 content until the Envy ships. Something like you can get on Amazon hard case with foam or something softer? I of course would like something to be sure it does not scratch the lens.

Has anyone got something like that? Just want it to be safe when off the projector. Any issues anyone can see?

Thanks,
Get a padded wine glass case, and maybe seal it in a gallon zip lock to make it dust proof too. Then later, you can carry stemware to parties or picnics !
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post #944 of 1027 Old 04-16-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Sort of a weird question but. I would like to find a case for my DCR lens when I take it off for 16:9 content until the Envy ships. Something like you can get on Amazon hard case with foam or something softer? I of course would like something to be sure it does not scratch the lens.



Has anyone got something like that? Just want it to be safe when off the projector. Any issues anyone can see?



Thanks,


I was actually thinking about this the other day. Currently I’m putting to halfway back into its foam shipping container.

Maybe a Pelican case of some sort?
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post #945 of 1027 Old 04-17-2019, 04:48 AM
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I was actually thinking about this the other day. Currently I’m putting to halfway back into its foam shipping container.

Maybe a Pelican case of some sort?
I think a Pelican case is what I want but was wondering if anyone has come across one with soft enough foam or something so it will not harm the glass.

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I think a Pelican case is what I want but was wondering if anyone has come across one with soft enough foam or something so it will not harm the glass.


Just curious - how would the foam harm the glass? Scratch it?
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post #947 of 1027 Old 04-17-2019, 10:05 AM
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Just curious - how would the foam harm the glass? Scratch it?

Great question, but some of that foam I think has particles in it that seem rough. I could always put a soft cotton cloth to line it.

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post #948 of 1027 Old 04-19-2019, 03:47 PM
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And here it is.....Got this hard case with the foam and cut it out.

Should keep it safe when off the projector. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #949 of 1027 Old 04-21-2019, 09:11 AM
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Can i use a DCR just to increase the brightness ? Because my screen will be 16:9 only.
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post #950 of 1027 Old 04-21-2019, 01:56 PM
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Can i use a DCR just to increase the brightness ? Because my screen will be 16:9 only.


I am.
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post #951 of 1027 Old 04-21-2019, 01:58 PM
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And here it is.....Got this hard case with the foam and cut it out.



Should keep it safe when off the projector. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


PERFECT!! Maybe lay a microfiber cloth over the top before closing it?
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post #952 of 1027 Old 04-21-2019, 02:07 PM
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Question for all - I have my projector mounted, inverted on the ceiling. I’m using lens shift, of course to move the image down.


I’ve noticed I can get away with less down lens shift, if I angle the DCR down.

Is this a bad idea?

Should the lens be “pitched” perpendicular to the screen or can I angle it?
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post #953 of 1027 Old 04-21-2019, 11:08 PM
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I am.
Do you feel it's worth going for a DCR lens on a 16:9 screen ? Is the difference in brightness very noticeable(especially for HDR) ? Also is there any other advantage of using the DCR lens on a 16:9 screen apart from the brightness factor ? Mine will be a CIW screen with masking.

Sorry about the questions. I'm trying not to make too many posts on this.
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post #954 of 1027 Old 04-22-2019, 02:27 AM
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Question for all - I have my projector mounted, inverted on the ceiling. I’m using lens shift, of course to move the image down.


I’ve noticed I can get away with less down lens shift, if I angle the DCR down.

Is this a bad idea?

Should the lens be “pitched” perpendicular to the screen or can I angle it?
Ideally you want it square with the projected beam, so if the beam is angled down using lens shift, so should the DCR, but if you a test pattern to hand, say from the AVSHD709 test disk (crosshatch or something), you can then see what exactly is happening to the image. In real terms with video content you're unlikely to notice a difference, but if you're not seeing any problems with the amount of lens shift you're using then there's no reason to use less and tilt the DCR lens more IMHO.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #955 of 1027 Old 04-22-2019, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by abinav555 View Post
Do you feel it's worth going for a DCR lens on a 16:9 screen ? Is the difference in brightness very noticeable(especially for HDR) ? Also is there any other advantage of using the DCR lens on a 16:9 screen apart from the brightness factor ? Mine will be a CIW screen with masking.



Sorry about the questions. I'm trying not to make too many posts on this.


Make as many as you want!

The picture it throws is amazing. I’ve never used anything but the lens for scope, so I can’t directly compare it to a lot of use without it.

Besides an increased pixel count as well as brightness, I can’t think of any other advantages.

Those are two huge advantages though.
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post #956 of 1027 Old 04-22-2019, 03:53 AM
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Ideally you want it square with the projected beam, so if the beam is angled down using lens shift, so should the DCR, but if you a test pattern to hand, say from the AVSHD709 test disk (crosshatch or something), you can then see what exactly is happening to the image. In real terms with video content you're unlikely to notice a difference, but if you're not seeing any problems with the amount of lens shift you're using then there's no reason to use less and tilt the DCR lens more IMHO.


So, it’s preferable to have the lens square with the beam as opposed to the screen?

I mean - ideally you’d want them all square, but if that’s not an option the two you want matched up are the lens and beam?
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post #957 of 1027 Old 04-22-2019, 08:59 AM
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Yes, but like I say, you can try altering how the image ends up on the screen by not having the lens inline with the beam and see what you think.

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

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post #958 of 1027 Old 04-23-2019, 02:53 PM
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So, it’s preferable to have the lens square with the beam as opposed to the screen?

I mean - ideally you’d want them all square, but if that’s not an option the two you want matched up are the lens and beam?
You can try adjusting both the height, and angle. No harm in experimenting. Both adjustments might have an effect on how it looks on the screen. In my case, at minimum throw, I found I prefered to adjust it so any geometric distortion ( which you might not have if you have more throw distance than I do ) was on the sides, with the top and bottom more or less perfect. And that's what I wound up with.
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post #959 of 1027 Old 04-23-2019, 06:30 PM
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You can try adjusting both the height, and angle. No harm in experimenting. Both adjustments might have an effect on how it looks on the screen. In my case, at minimum throw, I found I prefered to adjust it so any geometric distortion ( which you might not have if you have more throw distance than I do ) was on the sides, with the top and bottom more or less perfect. And that's what I wound up with.


Gotcha. Will do!
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post #960 of 1027 Old 04-26-2019, 01:17 PM
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Question

Sorry if this has been discussed.
I realize the Panamorph Paladin HDR lens is better than the UHD, but what about the ISCOIIIL?
(ISCO now owned by Schneider as of 2008)

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link

Last edited by Mike_WI; 04-26-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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