Panamorph DCR Paladin Owners Thread - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1381 of 1401 Old 05-13-2020, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I'm not sure what's going on here, but here's a quote from the Panamorph site:



Here's the LINK to this page.

I don't know how to resolve what you're observing with everything else I've read. When the JVC's first came out, with the DCR lens, it was a known limitation of the original firmware that 16:9 content was not displayed properly, with a slight (6%, IIRC) Edited to Correct: it was a "squeeze" not a "stretch" as I originally said (like you're talking about). That was enough that I chose not to get this projector until it was fixed. Then the new firmware came out, adding DTM, and adding Anamorphic D, which maintained the proper aspect ratio for 16:9 content. I'm about 99.9% sure that this is correct.

Perhaps @Shawn Kelly can clarify what's going on.
Don't know what to tell you, but the tests don't lie. Simple test with a masking screen. Perfect 16x9 geometry with the Radiance, 17x9 with Anamorphic D mode.

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post #1382 of 1401 Old 05-13-2020, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Don't know what to tell you, but the tests don't lie. Simple test with a masking screen. Perfect 16x9 geometry with the Radiance, 17x9 with Anamorphic D mode.
Just trying to make sure we're talking about the same equipment: you are using one of the NX5/NX7/NX9 series, with the Paladin DCR Lens?

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post #1383 of 1401 Old 05-13-2020, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Just trying to make sure we're talking about the same equipment: you are using one of the NX5/NX7/NX9 series, with the Paladin DCR Lens?
Yes, the DCR lens does not apply to any other JVC models other than the 4500, which doesn't have a 16x9 mode for a DCR lens.

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post #1384 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Don't know what to tell you, but the tests don't lie. Simple test with a masking screen. Perfect 16x9 geometry with the Radiance, 17x9 with Anamorphic D mode.
How does the old 16x9 mode Anamorphic B(?) look then? Is it wider or narrower?

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post #1385 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 06:36 AM
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Hmm, I ordered a Paladin DCR-C lens. I was under the impression that JVC fixed the aspect ratio for 16x9 with the release of firmware 3.1
The 6-7% stretch was what was holding me back from getting a lens in the first place. DLCphoto, your 16x9 images look correct with the lens in place?
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post #1386 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
Hmm, I ordered a Paladin DCR-C lens. I was under the impression that JVC fixed the aspect ratio for 16x9 with the release of firmware 3.1
The 6-7% stretch was what was holding me back from getting a lens in the first place. DLCphoto, your 16x9 images look correct with the lens in place?
As my posts above indicate, that was also my impression. And like you, that 6% issue was holding me back from purchase, and once it was addressed, I went ahead with it.

I have not noticed anything amiss when watching 16:9 content, although I have not done any critical testing or observation. I'll have to take a look later on today, and as MDesigns suggests, compare the image with Anamorphic Mode B vs Mode D. Theoretically, they should be different, since Mode D was apparently added to eliminate the shortcomings of Mode B for 16:9 content.

I've also been in touch with Shawn Kelly who will be doing some testing, and report back here when he is able.
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post #1387 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
As my posts above indicate, that was also my impression. And like you, that 6% issue was holding me back from purchase, and once it was addressed, I went ahead with it.

I have not noticed anything amiss when watching 16:9 content, although I have not done any critical testing or observation. I'll have to take a look later on today, and as MDesigns suggests, compare the image with Anamorphic Mode B vs Mode D. Theoretically, they should be different, since Mode D was apparently added to eliminate the shortcomings of Mode B for 16:9 content.

I've also been in touch with Shawn Kelly who will be doing some testing, and report back here when he is able.
My $0.02:

I haven't notice anything abnormal on my Scope screen when watching 16:9 content with the exception of CC being cut in half sometimes, but I believe that's more relative to my TR being at the short end with my DCR lens. The DCR lens for me eliminates the headache of selecting different lens memory options. I have about 4 different lens memory options programmed, but I rarely use them, if I need to see the CC I switch to Anamorphic D. I prefer the "laissez faire" approach when watching movies, playing games, etc the DCR lens for the most part provides that for me.

At first, I was reluctant to purchase the DCR lens, but now that I own it, it was one of my best HT purchases in ~25 years. Now the PSA disclaimer, YMMV.

It all boils down to what makes you happy, if you are constantly searching for nuances, you can always find them . Enjoyment that's the key to HT (rap mix) .

Peace and blessings,

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post #1388 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azekecse View Post
My $0.02:

I haven't notice anything abnormal on my Scope screen when watching 16:9 content with the exception of CC being cut in half sometimes, but I believe that's more relative to my TR being at the short end with my DCR lens. The DCR lens for me eliminates the headache of selecting different lens memory options. I have about 4 different lens memory options programmed, but I rarely use them, if I need to see the CC I switch to Anamorphic D. I prefer the "laissez faire" approach when watching movies, playing games, etc the DCR lens for the most part provides that for me.

At first, I was reluctant to purchase the DCR lens, but now that I own it, it was one of my best HT purchases in ~25 years. Now the PSA disclaimer, YMMV.

It all boils down to what makes you happy, if you are constantly searching for nuances, you can always find them . Enjoyment that's the key to HT (rap mix) .

Peace and blessings,

Zeke
Agreed - I'm really enjoying the NX7/DCR combination with my 2.35:1 screen.

Regarding subtitles, that is sometimes an issue. When I'm watching scope content on Disc, the subtitles are sometimes partially or fully present in the black bars, and so would be cut off by Anamorphic Mode C. That's one of the reasons I have the UB820, which can shift them to where I can see them. But this is not an option for streaming content like Amazon and Netflix. They typically have subtitles partly in and partly out of the black bar area, and can't be shifted.

When you see subtitles cut off, which Anamorphic Mode are you using? If Mode C, the subtitles might be partly in the black bar area which is not seen, and would have nothing to do with your throw distance (I'm also at the lower end). If you're using Mode D, subtitles should be fully visible.

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post #1389 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Agreed - I'm really enjoying the NX7/DCR combination with my 2.35:1 screen.

Regarding subtitles, that is sometimes an issue. When I'm watching scope content on Disc, the subtitles are sometimes partially or fully present in the black bars, and so would be cut off by Anamorphic Mode C. That's one of the reasons I have the UB820, which can shift them to where I can see them. But this is not an option for streaming content like Amazon and Netflix. They typically have subtitles partly in and partly out of the black bar area, and can't be shifted.

When you see subtitles cut off, which Anamorphic Mode are you using? If Mode C, the subtitles might be partly in the black bar area which is not seen, and would have nothing to do with your throw distance (I'm also at the lower end). If you're using Mode D, subtitles should be fully visible.
Correct, Mode C cuts some subtitles in 1/2, Mode D allows me to see them, but most of the time in Mode C, I can see just enough to discern the dialogue.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke

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post #1390 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Azekecse View Post
Correct, Mode C cuts some subtitles in 1/2, Mode D allows me to see them, but most of the time in Mode C, I can see just enough to discern the dialogue.
Gotcha. That's just the nature of the beast, and isn't because you're at the minimum throw distance.

I was watching Extraction on Netflix last night, which is a scope movie, with subtitles straddling the bottom edge of the frame. I just zoomed a bit less, slightly reducing the overall image size, and could now see the subtitles well enough, as you said. I found this more acceptable than switching to Mode D, which reduces the overall screen size of the movie drastically.
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post #1391 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 08:03 AM
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I will do tests on the different modes today and share pictures. It is my understanding that Mode B is assuming you are using a lens that is designed for 16x9 panels, not 17x9, so it will probably have its own issues. I doubt most people will notice the off framing with Mode D, but I wanted to be sure that people realized there is an issue there if your intent is perfect framing.

As for the subtitles, this can be an issue from time to time. One of the features I like about the Radiance is I can lock down any aspect I want for the content. So lets say I'm watching a movie that is full scope (2.4) and it has subtitles that are just below the frame or half and half. I can select a narrower aspect (say 2.35 or 2.2) and get the subtitles back while still preserving a larger image width than using a 16x9 mode like D. This typically only happens with Netflix type services for me though. For movies I am usually using my Oppo or a Strato, and both move subtitles within the frame without issues.
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post #1392 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 08:51 AM
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My mistake!! I forgot to change the output on the Lumagen to 3840 vice 4096 as anyone just using the JVC would be feeding it normal 3840 resolution. When this is set properly, the 16x9 frame is correct!! My apologies for the mix up, forgot to change that variable!

Let the stoning commence!!
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post #1393 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
My mistake!! I forgot to change the output on the Lumagen to 3840 vice 4096 as anyone just using the JVC would be feeding it normal 3840 resolution. When this is set properly, the 16x9 frame is correct!! My apologies for the mix up, forgot to change that variable!

Let the stoning commence!!
It's just a ID10T error KD, we all have those moments in time . I use to have an ID10T labeled box, that I would give to people, just for kicks.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke
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post #1394 of 1401 Old 05-14-2020, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
My mistake!! I forgot to change the output on the Lumagen to 3840 vice 4096 as anyone just using the JVC would be feeding it normal 3840 resolution. When this is set properly, the 16x9 frame is correct!! My apologies for the mix up, forgot to change that variable!

Let the stoning commence!!
Excellent - the world makes sense again!!

Appreciate your checking!

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post #1395 of 1401 Old 05-15-2020, 10:02 PM
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Sony 760/885es with Paladin Lens

Hi guys,
I’m thinking of getting an anamorphic lens for my Sony 885es and I’m using a 150” 2:35.1 screen. Throw distance is 21’.
The reason why I need this lens is to watch 16:9 movies to fill the cinema scope screen like 2:35/39/40.1 movies. I don’t intend to use lumagen. What is the difference between Paladin and Paladin DCR lens? And which is better for my Pj?

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post #1396 of 1401 Old 05-16-2020, 04:07 AM
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Hi guys,
I’m thinking of getting an anamorphic lens for my Sony 885es and I’m using a 150” 2:35.1 screen. Throw distance is 21’.
The reason why I need this lens is to watch 16:9 movies to fill the cinema scope screen like 2:35/39/40.1 movies. I don’t intend to use lumagen. What is the difference between Paladin and Paladin DCR lens? And which is better for my Pj?
The DCR Lens is for Projectors with native 17:9 resolution (4096 x 2160), which includes the 885ES. The original Paladin is designed for 16:9 (3840 x 2160) chips. So the DCR is the one you'd want to get to get full use of all the pixels on your Projector's chip.

You can fill your scope screen with 16:9 content, without distorting the aspect ratio, if you use the same Anamorphic Mode that you would for 2.35:1 content. But be aware that when you do this, the top and bottom 10% or so of the original 16:9 image will be cropped off. This can sometimes be problematic with subtitles or other information being lost. The only way to avoid this would be to "stretch" the image, if the Sony has a mode for this, which it probably does. The negative here is that the content would have be stretched around 25% in the horizontal dimension.

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post #1397 of 1401 Old 05-16-2020, 06:45 AM
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How is a lens (piece(s) of glass) designed for a certain resolution?
Can someone explain the physics (vs marketing) of this?

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post #1398 of 1401 Old 05-16-2020, 06:50 AM
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Panamorph DCR Paladin Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
How is a lens (piece(s) of glass) designed for a certain resolution?
Can someone explain the physics (vs marketing) of this?

I think it’s designed for a certain aspect ratio, the resolution just follows due to square pixels. You start with two different shapes and you want them to end up the same shape, that’s going to require a lens tailored to each.

It makes sense that the lens would be made specifically to bend either 16x9 to 2.35:1, or 17x9 to 2.35:1.

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post #1399 of 1401 Old 05-16-2020, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
How is a lens (piece(s) of glass) designed for a certain resolution?
Can someone explain the physics (vs marketing) of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
I think it’s designed for a certain aspect ratio, the resolution just follows due to square pixels. You start with two different shapes and you want them to end up the same shape, that’s going to require a lens tailored to each.

It makes sense that the lens would be made specifically to bend either 16x9 to 2.35:1, or 17x9 to 2.35:1.
Exactly. Think of it as a different prescription for glasses for different eyes.

And to be able to fully resolve 4k or even 8k level of detail and resolution, regardless of which lens you're talking about, the glass itself has to be of extremely high quality. That's why these lenses cost so much, as do high quality, large size, telephoto lenses in the photography world.
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post #1400 of 1401 Old 05-16-2020, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
The DCR Lens is for Projectors with native 17:9 resolution (4096 x 2160), which includes the 885ES. The original Paladin is designed for 16:9 (3840 x 2160) chips. So the DCR is the one you'd want to get to get full use of all the pixels on your Projector's chip.

You can fill your scope screen with 16:9 content, without distorting the aspect ratio, if you use the same Anamorphic Mode that you would for 2.35:1 content. But be aware that when you do this, the top and bottom 10% or so of the original 16:9 image will be cropped off. This can sometimes be problematic with subtitles or other information being lost. The only way to avoid this would be to "stretch" the image, if the Sony has a mode for this, which it probably does. The negative here is that the content would have be stretched around 25% in the horizontal dimension.
Thank you so much for the info. DCR it is.

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post #1401 of 1401 Old 05-17-2020, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
How is a lens (piece(s) of glass) designed for a certain resolution?
Can someone explain the physics (vs marketing) of this?
(Paladin DCR for 4K/4096/17:9 projectors) or 30% more brightness and 33% more pixels (Paladin for 4K/3840/16:9 projectors) - using an A lens designed for a 3840 x 2160 / 16:9 projector on a 4096 x 2160 / 17:9 projector will result in an incorrect geometry - https://www.panamorph.com/home-theater-lens-systems/
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