Originally Posted by christoffeldg
I do think this importance people put on extremely high contrast is overblown.
One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.
By comparison, I had a hard time figuring out what the deal was with the high contrast. Switching from one to the other I could sense an improvement but I really had to look for it.
It's really what we're used to that has the biggest impact on what we perceive as good or bad image quality. I can imagine people having a hard time going from an eshift to a Sony when they're used to the contrast the eshift provides. But I have exactly the same feeling going from a Sony to an eshift because of the drop in resolution.
I don't think its overblown, I think its of prime importance going forward. It's the one final advancement that, for me, projection technology needs to achieve.
It always used to be that projector images were rather low resolution, quite dim, not particularly saturated, and just couldn't compete very well with their TV counterparts. We put up with it because only projection could deliver the scale of image to give that level of immersion and cinematic scale in the home.
Now we are in a very special place, projectors now deliver much brighter, vivid and high resolution images, and (image size taken into account) are getting ever closer to their flat panel counterparts. Laser has also contributed with a flat panel like image stability.
The one area where they still fall down is black level. For me, that is the one paramount area that manufacturers need to address.
Now I've lived with the 760ES, its the one missing piece of the puzzle. I'm constantly impressed with the image the 760 delivers in my room, the clarity, detail and colour is frequently jaw dropping. But as soon as a dark scene is projected, with no bright specular highlights, it becomes a bit of a muddy mess.
Take Blade Runner 2049, that I finally got around watching a couple of nights ago. The image was simply outstanding - the levels of detail the 760 appeared to render, and the depth and stability of the image in many scenes, one could be forgiven for not realising it was a projected image. Even on the dark city-scapes, there were enough bright colourful specular highlights to make my eyes adjust and the blacks look fine. However as soon as
with no specular highlights on screen to make my eyes adjust, it became a 'grey-out'. It pulled me straight out of the tension and immersion of that particularly critical scene.
The irony is, a good DI like that on my outgoing X9000 would probably have brought the black level down in that scene sufficiently, to bring that scene back to life.
Originally Posted by Javs
Eh, so many factors here.
Is your room velvet treated? Ambient light? You wouldn't tell an audiophile a certain pair of speakers are not much different if listening to them in an untreated room with multiple room modes affecting its real response. Even a single LED light from an amp, and no, I am not even CLOSE to joking will kill 50% of your JVC's contrast. If you cannot sit in your room in the dark and not see the hand in front of your face for at least 1 minute your room is too bright for a good JVC.
How good is that lens in your 7900 really? I sent back both my X9900's due to bad lenses, and those are meant to be hand picked!
Get a good sample of both Sony and JVC, put them in a velvet room and things will be interesting. I have owned a native 4k Sony in the past too, the difference in contrast is substantial and its not just in black passages, there is actually a lot going on between 0 and 4% APL. Resolution 'aint' everything either.
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett
Going from memory, I am pretty sure his room has white walls and white ceiling. You can't compare projectors, if your room can't provide a half decent environment for front projection. He would be amazed at how much better the 885 would look in a good room and in a good room, the contrast between the 885 and 790 is not even close.
Good points from Javs and Mike there Christoph, if you're in an all white living room, then you're never going to get good blacks from a projector. I can say this as I lived with my system in our main (white painted) living room for almost 10 years - I even installed black velvet curtains that pulled out along the front 1/3 of the room. When I finally got a dedicated bat-cave, it made the world of difference to the image quality.
One other point I will add to theirs, is that you also need to ensure that projectors are fully calibrated with a good gamma and greyscale tracking before you make any assessment of their low light performance.