SONY VPL-VW870ES VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector | Anticipation Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 01:48 PM
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Thanks for this explanation on screen gain; makes perfect sense. There must be something else happening from time to time on black level though as sometimes it comes up higher than at other times, all other things equal. This is the area that I wish they would pass backwards as they learn to control their technology with newer units and firmware development.

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The 23,000:1 was with the dynamic dimming system in use, but a single white pixel lit up, to keep the laser from completely shutting off. A negative or positive gain screen does not make a real change to the contrast spec. It basically stays the same. That is because while the white level increases with gain, the black level also increases.
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post #92 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 02:46 PM
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Not everyone spends all their time watching star fields, if they do then they need to buy an OLED.
Sounds great. Go ahead and point me to that 135" OLED and I'll get that ASAP. Hey, on another note, you can watch star fields on say a JVC RS640 and it looks about as good as said OLED.
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post #93 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 03:58 PM
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Sounds great. Go ahead and point me to that 135" OLED and I'll get that ASAP. Hey, on another note, you can watch star fields on say a JVC RS640 and it looks about as good as said OLED.
I get what he's saying tho. Contrast is important, but it's not all important. A good projector has a good balance.

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post #94 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
This more detailed explanation is helpful as my readings now make sense in the context of the numbers thrown out (I was taking readings w/o Laser Light DD). I have also observed that adjusting gamma thru Sony PCP is a very difficult process as the controls/points become highly interactive low against high and vice versa; one of the reasons I moved to a LUT box and just left the projector's gamma curve (2.6) un-adjusted. This is one of the areas I hope they address going forward.
Given your measurements of circa 15,000:1 were native ON/OFF that is precisely within the expected range
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post #95 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 04:37 PM
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I do think this importance people put on extremely high contrast is overblown.

One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.

By comparison, I had a hard time figuring out what the deal was with the high contrast. Switching from one to the other I could sense an improvement but I really had to look for it.

It's really what we're used to that has the biggest impact on what we perceive as good or bad image quality. I can imagine people having a hard time going from an eshift to a Sony when they're used to the contrast the eshift provides. But I have exactly the same feeling going from a Sony to an eshift because of the drop in resolution.
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post #96 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
I do think this importance people put on extremely high contrast is overblown.

One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.

By comparison, I had a hard time figuring out what the deal was with the high contrast. Switching from one to the other I could sense an improvement but I really had to look for it.

It's really what we're used to that has the biggest impact on what we perceive as good or bad image quality. I can imagine people having a hard time going from an eshift to a Sony when they're used to the contrast the eshift provides. But I have exactly the same feeling going from a Sony to an eshift because of the drop in resolution.
Eh, so many factors here.

Is your room velvet treated? Ambient light? You wouldn't tell an audiophile a certain pair of speakers are not much different if listening to them in an untreated room with multiple room modes affecting its real response. Even a single LED light from an amp, and no, I am not even CLOSE to joking will kill 50% of your JVC's contrast. If you cannot sit in your room in the dark and not see the hand in front of your face for at least 1 minute your room is too bright for a good JVC.

How good is that lens in your 7900 really? I sent back both my X9900's due to bad lenses, and those are meant to be hand picked!

Get a good sample of both Sony and JVC, put them in a velvet room and things will be interesting. I have owned a native 4k Sony in the past too, the difference in contrast is substantial and its not just in black passages, there is actually a lot going on between 0 and 4% APL. Resolution 'aint' everything either.
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post #97 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
I do think this importance people put on extremely high contrast is overblown.

One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.

By comparison, I had a hard time figuring out what the deal was with the high contrast. Switching from one to the other I could sense an improvement but I really had to look for it.

It's really what we're used to that has the biggest impact on what we perceive as good or bad image quality. I can imagine people having a hard time going from an eshift to a Sony when they're used to the contrast the eshift provides. But I have exactly the same feeling going from a Sony to an eshift because of the drop in resolution.
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Eh, so many factors here.

Is your room velvet treated? Ambient light? You wouldn't tell an audiophile a certain pair of speakers are not much different if listening to them in an untreated room with multiple room modes affecting its real response. Even a single LED light from an amp, and no, I am not even CLOSE to joking will kill 50% of your JVC's contrast. If you cannot sit in your room in the dark and not see the hand in front of your face for at least 1 minute your room is too bright for a good JVC.

How good is that lens in your 7900 really? I sent back both my X9900's due to bad lenses, and those are meant to be hand picked!

Get a good sample of both Sony and JVC, put them in a velvet room and things will be interesting. I have owned a native 4k Sony in the past too, the difference in contrast is substantial and its not just in black passages, there is actually a lot going on between 0 and 4% APL. Resolution 'aint' everything either.
Going from memory, I am pretty sure his room has white walls and white ceiling. You can't compare projectors, if your room can't provide a half decent environment for front projection. He would be amazed at how much better the 885 would look in a good room and in a good room, the contrast between the 885 and 790 is not even close.
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post #98 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 10:19 PM
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I have been thinking exactly the same thing, Sony tech always trickles down. The little brother would very possibly outperform the big brother. Unless of course they released a replacement for the 5000ES at the same time. One projector above the 5000 one projector below the 5000, both with new technology.
Yes it does usually trickle down and if we had a successor of the 5000 coming up, too we would have heard about it so the question is what Sony will actually release.

Myself I prefer to wait for more official news as this reminds me a bit too much of the 760 where for a very long time it was expected to be more of a true VW1100 successor but then it ended up without an (adressable) Iris and with the lens of the smaller 4k projectors which is perfectly fine but not necessarily what people had ben expecting.
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post #99 of 1488 Old 08-14-2018, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post

One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.
On this aspect i agree 100% ( ill say "Blatantly Obvious" in place of "Massive" though ) Except in my case it was the Sony 760ES compared to both the JVC X9500 and X9900.
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post #100 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
I do think this importance people put on extremely high contrast is overblown.

One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.

By comparison, I had a hard time figuring out what the deal was with the high contrast. Switching from one to the other I could sense an improvement but I really had to look for it.

It's really what we're used to that has the biggest impact on what we perceive as good or bad image quality. I can imagine people having a hard time going from an eshift to a Sony when they're used to the contrast the eshift provides. But I have exactly the same feeling going from a Sony to an eshift because of the drop in resolution.
I don't think its overblown, I think its of prime importance going forward. It's the one final advancement that, for me, projection technology needs to achieve.

It always used to be that projector images were rather low resolution, quite dim, not particularly saturated, and just couldn't compete very well with their TV counterparts. We put up with it because only projection could deliver the scale of image to give that level of immersion and cinematic scale in the home.

Now we are in a very special place, projectors now deliver much brighter, vivid and high resolution images, and (image size taken into account) are getting ever closer to their flat panel counterparts. Laser has also contributed with a flat panel like image stability.

The one area where they still fall down is black level. For me, that is the one paramount area that manufacturers need to address.

Now I've lived with the 760ES, its the one missing piece of the puzzle. I'm constantly impressed with the image the 760 delivers in my room, the clarity, detail and colour is frequently jaw dropping. But as soon as a dark scene is projected, with no bright specular highlights, it becomes a bit of a muddy mess.

Take Blade Runner 2049, that I finally got around watching a couple of nights ago. The image was simply outstanding - the levels of detail the 760 appeared to render, and the depth and stability of the image in many scenes, one could be forgiven for not realising it was a projected image. Even on the dark city-scapes, there were enough bright colourful specular highlights to make my eyes adjust and the blacks look fine. However as soon as
Spoiler!
with no specular highlights on screen to make my eyes adjust, it became a 'grey-out'. It pulled me straight out of the tension and immersion of that particularly critical scene.

The irony is, a good DI like that on my outgoing X9000 would probably have brought the black level down in that scene sufficiently, to bring that scene back to life.

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Eh, so many factors here.

Is your room velvet treated? Ambient light? You wouldn't tell an audiophile a certain pair of speakers are not much different if listening to them in an untreated room with multiple room modes affecting its real response. Even a single LED light from an amp, and no, I am not even CLOSE to joking will kill 50% of your JVC's contrast. If you cannot sit in your room in the dark and not see the hand in front of your face for at least 1 minute your room is too bright for a good JVC.

How good is that lens in your 7900 really? I sent back both my X9900's due to bad lenses, and those are meant to be hand picked!

Get a good sample of both Sony and JVC, put them in a velvet room and things will be interesting. I have owned a native 4k Sony in the past too, the difference in contrast is substantial and its not just in black passages, there is actually a lot going on between 0 and 4% APL. Resolution 'aint' everything either.
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Going from memory, I am pretty sure his room has white walls and white ceiling. You can't compare projectors, if your room can't provide a half decent environment for front projection. He would be amazed at how much better the 885 would look in a good room and in a good room, the contrast between the 885 and 790 is not even close.
Good points from Javs and Mike there Christoph, if you're in an all white living room, then you're never going to get good blacks from a projector. I can say this as I lived with my system in our main (white painted) living room for almost 10 years - I even installed black velvet curtains that pulled out along the front 1/3 of the room. When I finally got a dedicated bat-cave, it made the world of difference to the image quality.

One other point I will add to theirs, is that you also need to ensure that projectors are fully calibrated with a good gamma and greyscale tracking before you make any assessment of their low light performance.
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post #101 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 02:22 AM - Thread Starter
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It would be very similar and even better in several parameters than the VW5000ES so I think it is highly improbable that Sony will release such a projector.

Another argument against releasing a projector with that kind of specs is that at least for previous 4k models Sony always introduced new technologies from the top of the range and then worked their way to the lower priced models so a dual laser in a projector that is positioned below the 5000 is also highly improbable because of that.
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I have been thinking exactly the same thing, Sony tech always trickles down. The little brother would very possibly outperform the big brother. Unless of course they released a replacement for the 5000ES at the same time. One projector above the 5000 one projector below the 5000, both with new technology.
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Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post
Yes it does usually trickle down and if we had a successor of the 5000 coming up, too we would have heard about it so the question is what Sony will actually release.

Myself I prefer to wait for more official news as this reminds me a bit too much of the 760 where for a very long time it was expected to be more of a true VW1100 successor but then it ended up without an (adressable) Iris and with the lens of the smaller 4k projectors which is perfectly fine but not necessarily what people had ben expecting.
I absolutely agree with you that if the new projector does indeed have the tech specs that have been indicated by SONY then this would most certainly make sense for a superior projector model that incorporates similar up-to-date technology to be released either concomitantly with or imminently following this, which either replaces or is positioned above the SONY 5000ES.

This is a slightly different situation as compared with the 760/885ES situation, in that this indicative news has come from SONY only a matter of a few weeks before when the official release at IFA and CEDIA is to occur and where the projector will be on demo. That said, despite the information coming from SONY it IS indicative, so you are absolutely right that we won't know for sure until the official information is published. Not long to wait now... it's only circa 2 weeks until IFA


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post #102 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 02:30 AM
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There is one possibility that this new model will be the new flagship. Wasn’t the 5000 originally a professional model that got released for home use?

So it might very well have all the features Arrow talked about.
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post #103 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 02:49 AM
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Hey all, maybe my post gave the wrong impression. I'm not saying the contrast difference isn't there or obvious. It's pretty obvious and I can see it. However, it's not something that for me affects the image to the extent that it becomes obvious to me without double checking and comparing.

And I think the reason for that is that I am not "used" to high contrast. Hence it's not something that I feel is very important. However, I am very sensitive to the resolution switch, which for others is not so obvious. I expect tho that the longer I will use the JVC, the more sensitive I will get to high contrast as I will learn to appreciate it more.

I just feel good image quality is based too much on preferences for any one factor to dominate the others. And in this respect, I find the attention contrast gets sometimes overblown.

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post #104 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I don't think its overblown, I think its of prime importance going forward. It's the one final advancement that, for me, projection technology needs to achieve.

It always used to be that projector images were rather low resolution, quite dim, not particularly saturated, and just couldn't compete very well with their TV counterparts. We put up with it because only projection could deliver the scale of image to give that level of immersion and cinematic scale in the home.

Now we are in a very special place, projectors now deliver much brighter, vivid and high resolution images, and (image size taken into account) are getting ever closer to their flat panel counterparts. Laser has also contributed with a flat panel like image stability.

The one area where they still fall down is black level. For me, that is the one paramount area that manufacturers need to address.

Now I've lived with the 760ES, its the one missing piece of the puzzle. I'm constantly impressed with the image the 760 delivers in my room, the clarity, detail and colour is frequently jaw dropping. But as soon as a dark scene is projected, with no bright specular highlights, it becomes a bit of a muddy mess.

Take Blade Runner 2049, that I finally got around watching a couple of nights ago. The image was simply outstanding - the levels of detail the 760 appeared to render, and the depth and stability of the image in many scenes, one could be forgiven for not realising it was a projected image. Even on the dark city-scapes, there were enough bright colourful specular highlights to make my eyes adjust and the blacks look fine. However as soon as
Spoiler!
with no specular highlights on screen to make my eyes adjust, it became a 'grey-out'. It pulled me straight out of the tension and immersion of that particularly critical scene.

The irony is, a good DI like that on my outgoing X9000 would probably have brought the black level down in that scene sufficiently, to bring that scene back to life.





Good points from Javs and Mike there Christoph, if you're in an all white living room, then you're never going to get good blacks from a projector. I can say this as I lived with my system in our main (white painted) living room for almost 10 years - I even installed black velvet curtains that pulled out along the front 1/3 of the room. When I finally got a dedicated bat-cave, it made the world of difference to the image quality.

One other point I will add to theirs, is that you also need to ensure that projectors are fully calibrated with a good gamma and greyscale tracking before you make any assessment of their low light performance.
Actually, there's one movie that I also felt hard to watch on the Sony for the same reason as how you mentioned Blade Runner. Multiple scenes in Black panther felt very washed out without the specular detail, the intro scene is a very good example of this. But I wasn't sure if the source itself didn't have a problem because I wasn't very impressed when I tried it on the JVC either. But it might indeed be because my room isn't that great.

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post #105 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:23 AM
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Chris, I really think it has to do with Dolby Vision encoding.

I had the same disc playing on the Oppo 205 with DV and Panasonic UB900 without DV to the Sony ZD9. It looked kinda washed out on the UB900 with more elevated black levels. The blacks and contrast looked so much better on the Oppo when DV was enabled.

I’ve noticed this with Spider-Man Homecoming as well
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post #106 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:29 AM
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Actually, there's one movie that I also felt hard to watch on the Sony for the same reason as how you mentioned Blade Runner. Multiple scenes in Black panther felt very washed out without the specular detail, the intro scene is a very good example of this. But I wasn't sure if the source itself didn't have a problem because I wasn't very impressed when I tried it on the JVC either. But it might indeed be because my room isn't that great.
No, you're right, I watched Blank Panther last night (kind of wish I hadn't as I'm still reeling from the abysmal soundtrack mastering), those opening scenes were bad with a raised black floor, that was in the content too.
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post #107 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:35 AM
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Chris, I really think it has to do with Dolby Vision encoding.

I had the same disc playing on the Oppo 205 with DV and Panasonic UB900 without DV to the Sony ZD9. It looked kinda washed out on the UB900 with more elevated black levels. The blacks and contrast looked so much better on the Oppo when DV was enabled.

I’ve noticed this with Spider-Man Homecoming as well
Well that's really odd then. The low range should be nit-for-nit identical between HDR10 and DV in scenes like those with no specular highlights I would have thought, only in scenes with a wider dynamic range would I expect dynamic metadata to have an impact. Strange one!
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post #108 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:35 AM
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I do think this importance people put on extremely high contrast is overblown.

One thing became rather apparent after using my X7900 for a bit. I seriously miss the native 4k, when people say they can barely see the difference for me it's almost inconceivable. It's an absolutely massive difference.

By comparison, I had a hard time figuring out what the deal was with the high contrast. Switching from one to the other I could sense an improvement but I really had to look for it.

It's really what we're used to that has the biggest impact on what we perceive as good or bad image quality. I can imagine people having a hard time going from an eshift to a Sony when they're used to the contrast the eshift provides. But I have exactly the same feeling going from a Sony to an eshift because of the drop in resolution.
I only have the X790 so it is not native 4K and I have not seen a native 4K Sony but from what I have read in real world content while watching movies it is not very noticeable. I would even say since I started watching 4K movies I am disappointed in the quality of them.

While HDR and wide colour gamut is a huge plus the extra resolution on these movies just highlights how poorly the were filmed. I now notice how out of focus some shots can be. You could have scenes where an actors face is nice and sharp and then the next scene its out of focus and blurry. This has probably always been the way but wasn't as noticeable while watching it in 1080P.

Now if you are talking about video games at true 4K and you have a high end PC to run these then I could agree with that.
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post #109 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Actually, there's one movie that I also felt hard to watch on the Sony for the same reason as how you mentioned Blade Runner. Multiple scenes in Black panther felt very washed out without the specular detail, the intro scene is a very good example of this. But I wasn't sure if the source itself didn't have a problem because I wasn't very impressed when I tried it on the JVC either. But it might indeed be because my room isn't that great.
There's nothing wrong with the video quality of Black Panther. It's outstanding. There's quite a few low APL scenes so I think you are experiencing the limitations of your equipment, setup, and environment with respect to good contrast performance

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No, you're right, I watched Blank Panther last night (kind of wish I hadn't as I'm still reeling from the abysmal soundtrack mastering), those opening scenes were bad with a raised black floor, that was in the content too.
Are you referring to some of the flashback scenes at the start of the movie? Because those appear to be graded differently, but I am guessing because they are flashbacks? I think that you will find that the rest of the movie is absolutely fine. I even just re-checked this via my SONY ZD9/Z9D and the video quality looks absolutely incredible. All the professional reviews have rated the HDR video extremely highly too.

That said, I absolutely agree with you regarding the absymal soundtrack mastering... whoever is responsible for overseeing the consumer Dolby Atmos mixes for Disney's Marvel movie releases needs to be sacked immediately... Avengers: Age Of Ultron was just as bad and apparently so is Avengers: Infinity War!

The reviews typically concur in this regard too, wherein John Archer's review is spot on when he says: "Despite boasting an exclusive Dolby Atmos mix, Black Panther’s 4K Blu-ray soundtrack is almost as disappointing as its picture quality is excellent."


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post #110 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:47 AM
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I only have the X790 so it is not native 4K and I have not seen a native 4K Sony but from what I have read in real world content while watching movies it is not very noticeable. I would even say since I started watching 4K movies I am disappointed in the quality of them.

While HDR and wide colour gamut is a huge plus the extra resolution on these movies just highlights how poorly the were filmed. I now notice how out of focus some shots can be. You could have scenes where an actors face is nice and sharp and then the next scene its out of focus and blurry. This has probably always been the way but wasn't as noticeable while watching it in 1080P.

Now if you are talking about video games at true 4K and you have a high end PC to run these then I could agree with that.
YES, absolutely this.

This was also one of the biggest complaints in my original first impressions for the Sony VW760ES. Native 4k is awesome, but the content is not there in many many cases.
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post #111 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I only have the X790 so it is not native 4K and I have not seen a native 4K Sony but from what I have read in real world content while watching movies it is not very noticeable. I would even say since I started watching 4K movies I am disappointed in the quality of them.

While HDR and wide colour gamut is a huge plus the extra resolution on these movies just highlights how poorly the were filmed. I now notice how out of focus some shots can be. You could have scenes where an actors face is nice and sharp and then the next scene its out of focus and blurry. This has probably always been the way but wasn't as noticeable while watching it in 1080P.

Now if you are talking about video games at true 4K and you have a high end PC to run these then I could agree with that.
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YES, absolutely this.

This was also one of the biggest complaints in my original first impressions for the Sony VW760ES. Native 4k is awesome, but the content is not there in many many cases.
The studios really need to step up their game now that we are getting in to more and more 4K material. There is really no excuse for it today especially on big blockbuster movies.

For example on Deadpool 2 and this was in 1080P. There is a scene where Deadpool and his sidekick are recruiting their team and every time the camera switches to the recruits they are out of focus and blurry - just looks terrible.
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post #112 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:00 AM
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I just feel good image quality is based too much on preferences for any one factor to dominate the others. And in this respect, I find the attention contrast gets sometimes overblown.
Again i have to fully agree with you..

Its interesting in that before i had the Z1 and i had just about every E-shift projector 5000/7000/7500/9500/9900. I had the mindset that the Z1 would be inferior based on the spec,d contrast figures. How could a projector with an abysmal 9000:1 hope to compete with the 160,000:1 of ther E-Shift.

Well i took the plunge on the Z1 and have NEVER looked back. The Z1 may not equal the outright contrast of the E-Shift projectors BUT it does everything else SO MUCH BETTER! and the gap in real world contrast is much, much closer than spec,s would have you believe.

I DONT own the Sony 760ES, but thanks to my mate i have had the chance to have an extensive comparo in MY theatre room against not only my Z1 but the E-Shift projectors mentioned above.

Like the Z1 the 760 does not have the outright contrast of the E-Shift projectors, but "OVERALL" it produces IMO a far far better image than the E-Shift series.

I dont know why i seem to keep defending the 760ES , but i do feel sometimes it is copping far more flak than it deserves.......just as the Z1 did on initial release.

The 760ES IS a terrific projector, and if i didnt have the Z1 it would be my next choice at present.

The gist of this ...... A good image is comprised of MANY good attributes....not just one.
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post #113 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I only have the X790 so it is not native 4K and I have not seen a native 4K Sony but from what I have read in real world content while watching movies it is not very noticeable. I would even say since I started watching 4K movies I am disappointed in the quality of them.

While HDR and wide colour gamut is a huge plus the extra resolution on these movies just highlights how poorly the were filmed. I now notice how out of focus some shots can be. You could have scenes where an actors face is nice and sharp and then the next scene its out of focus and blurry. This has probably always been the way but wasn't as noticeable while watching it in 1080P.

Now if you are talking about video games at true 4K and you have a high end PC to run these then I could agree with that.
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YES, absolutely this.

This was also one of the biggest complaints in my original first impressions for the Sony VW760ES. Native 4k is awesome, but the content is not there in many many cases.
I could not agree more!

For the benefit of those who are not in the know, this is because is many instances the movies are mastered using 2K digital intermediates and/or simply upscaled to 4K. Here's a useful resource which lists what's what in this regard: REAL OR FAKE 4K BLU-RAY RELEASES


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post #114 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
YES, absolutely this.

This was also one of the biggest complaints in my original first impressions for the Sony VW760ES. Native 4k is awesome, but the content is not there in many many cases.
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
You are both absolutely right. For the benefit of those who are not in the know, this is because is many instances the movies are mastered using 2K digital intermediates and/or simply upscaled to 4K. Here's a useful resource which lists what's what in this regard: REAL OR FAKE 4K BLU-RAY RELEASES

I believe this is part of the problem but whether the movie is mastered from a 2K or 4K source it still has to be shot properly. If a shot is out of focus it will won't matter what resolution it was filmed in.

I quickly checked out the attached list of movies and checked for Jumanji:Welcome to the Jungle and it was a fake 4K. Now this surprised me as it has been one of the best movies that I have seen for the picture being in focus. Probably because the actors and film crew knew what they were doing
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post #115 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe this is part of the problem but whether the movie is mastered from a 2K or 4K source it still has to be shot properly. If a shot is out of focus it will won't matter what resolution it was filmed in.

I quickly checked out the attached list of movies and checked for Jumanji:Welcome to the Jungle and it was a fake 4K. Now this surprised me as it has been one of the best movies that I have seen for the picture being in focus. Probably because the actors and film crew knew what they were doing
Have you seen The Greatest Showman? It's as good as it gets... Shot entirely on Arri Alexa digital cameras with resolution levels up to 6K, mastered using a 4K digital intermediate, and I don't think you will find many shots that are out of focus That's how all 4K movies should look!
.
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post #116 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:56 AM
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Are you referring to some of the flashback scenes at the start of the movie? Because those appear to be graded differently, but I am guessing because they are flashbacks?
No, its the night-time scene at the start where they rescue/recover Nakia (the female spy) from the truck convoy going through the jungle. Black levels looked raised there to me, for a night scene.
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post #117 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:58 AM
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Well that's really odd then. The low range should be nit-for-nit identical between HDR10 and DV in scenes like those with no specular highlights I would have thought, only in scenes with a wider dynamic range would I expect dynamic metadata to have an impact. Strange one!
It is all over the place about Disney's somewhat dubious (abysmal) 4K bluray mastering.
Last Jedi was another one where the blacks seemed to go up and down almost on a scene by scene basis.

By contrast (excuse the pun) I find Warner and Universal discs to generally look outstanding.
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post #118 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 04:59 AM
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I believe this is part of the problem but whether the movie is mastered from a 2K or 4K source it still has to be shot properly. If a shot is out of focus it will won't matter what resolution it was filmed in.

I quickly checked out the attached list of movies and checked for Jumanji:Welcome to the Jungle and it was a fake 4K. Now this surprised me as it has been one of the best movies that I have seen for the picture being in focus. Probably because the actors and film crew knew what they were doing
I know what you're saying about the 'out-of-focus' issue, I notice it much more on 4K content than I ever did on HD, though maybe I'm just looking for issues more. Kingsman Golden Circle had a number of shots that were either partially of completely out of focus.
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post #119 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 05:00 AM
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Have you seen The Greatest Showman? It's as good as it gets...
I would be tempted to get that 4K disc if it were not for the fact that the kids have made me sit through the blu-ray version about 40 times already!!

Edit: Have you seen Blade Runner 2049? Thats currently amongst my top 3 reference discs now for video and audio - up there with Passengers and Lucy.

Edit 2: Ironically, all three of which are 4K DI's. Coincidence?! I think not.
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post #120 of 1488 Old 08-15-2018, 05:05 AM
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I dont know why i seem to keep defending the 760ES , but i do feel sometimes it is copping far more flak than it deserves.......just as the Z1 did on initial release.
As Sony is not looking like they will proffer any updates to improve performance in the same way JVC did, then I would say a lot of it is deserved. (Remember I actually own a 760 and am 90% happy with it, I just want them to release it's full potential, especially as it can all be done in software).

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The 760ES IS a terrific projector, and if i didnt have the Z1 it would be my next choice at present.

The gist of this ...... A good image is comprised of MANY good attributes....not just one.
True dat!

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