Alcons Audio Official Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 98 Old 02-04-2019, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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If anyone is attending ISE in Amsterdam this year, please be sure to step by the Alcons Pro-Ribbon Immersive experience booth a hall / booth 6-H150! Alcons is bringing a full CRMS (Cinema Reference Monitoring System) 9.x(8!).6 Atmos layout, processed by the Storm 32ch AES enabled processor while we´re setting up a 3,5m wide UltraWeave V6 featuring the full 10-year stain warranted TextileShield PRO fabric in a native CineScope format. If you have not seen the new JVC N-series, this would also be a good opportunity, as we´re using the DLA-N(x)7 and a Panamorph DCI lens. Will post some pics once it´s up and running!
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post #62 of 98 Old 02-04-2019, 11:08 AM
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If anyone is attending ISE in Amsterdam this year, please be sure to step by the Alcons Pro-Ribbon Immersive experience booth a hall / booth 6-H150! Alcons is bringing a full CRMS (Cinema Reference Monitoring System) 9.x(8!).6 Atmos layout, processed by the Storm 32ch AES enabled processor while we´re setting up a 3,5m wide UltraWeave V6 featuring the full 10-year stain warranted TextileShield PRO fabric in a native CineScope format. If you have not seen the new JVC N-series, this would also be a good opportunity, as we´re using the DLA-N(x)7 and a Panamorph DCI lens. Will post some pics once it´s up and running!
I'll try to visit the Alcons stand tomorrow!
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post #63 of 98 Old 02-05-2019, 06:08 PM
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Or Thursday. Saw Tom sitting outside, door was closed today, and I was passing onto another stand.

Uhm the X stands for pixel shift, so the N7 and N5 don't have an X in their name, as far as I know. JVC booth was always open, so not in demo use this afternoon.
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post #64 of 98 Old 02-06-2019, 01:47 PM
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Or Thursday. Saw Tom sitting outside, door was closed today, and I was passing onto another stand.

Uhm the X stands for pixel shift, so the N7 and N5 don't have an X in their name, as far as I know. JVC booth was always open, so not in demo use this afternoon.
I was able to visit the Alcons booth today. Sound was really great (as expected), but somewhat limited in the bass (especially midbass) due to acoustic conditions: the booth is like a tent in the middle of a giant hall, so lots of bass energy leaks out. Front imaging through the AT DreamScreen was very convincing.

Video was equally impressive (JVC NX7 + Panamorph + Dreamscreen).

Bonus: fun to meet Lygren IRL
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post #65 of 98 Old 02-06-2019, 01:50 PM
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I was able to visit the Alcons booth today. Sound was really great (as expected), but somewhat limited in the bass (especially midbass) due to acoustic conditions: the booth is like a tent in the middle of a giant hall, so lots of bass energy leaks out. Front imaging through the AT DreamScreen was very convincing.

Video was equally impressive (JVC NX7 + Panamorph + Dreamscreen).

Bonus: fun to meet Lygren IRL
Second place for sound: Procella Audio
Third place: DARTS

Didn't hear JBL Synthesis yet though, and Wisdom has no active demo this year (aaaaaargh!)

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post #66 of 98 Old 02-06-2019, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I was able to visit the Alcons booth today. Sound was really great (as expected), but somewhat limited in the bass (especially midbass) due to acoustic conditions: the booth is like a tent in the middle of a giant hall, so lots of bass energy leaks out. Front imaging through the AT DreamScreen was very convincing.

Video was equally impressive (JVC NX7 + Panamorph + Dreamscreen).

Bonus: fun to meet Lygren IRL
Thanks for your feedback, highly appreciated! Very nice to meet you in person as well; your new demo room will certainly be a stellar one, good luck on finalising the project!!

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post #67 of 98 Old 02-06-2019, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Or Thursday. Saw Tom sitting outside, door was closed today, and I was passing onto another stand.

Uhm the X stands for pixel shift, so the N7 and N5 don't have an X in their name, as far as I know. JVC booth was always open, so not in demo use this afternoon.
Ah, bummer Donald, so sorry for that! We´re running residential demos throughout the day in 30 min runs, but at 12.00, 14.00 and 16.00 the pro demo (Astro Spatial Audio) is commencing. Hope to see you tomorrow!

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post #68 of 98 Old 02-06-2019, 05:14 PM
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Like I said I had other things to go see, so I didn't walk up to see if there was an ongoing demo, or to talk to Tom or others.

Astro, last year we quickly jumped in with Nigel and a few others, and I noticed how that demo ensured one could hear the sound coming from locations, and move around. It sounded like the sound was coming from the speaker locations...

Two years ago we had the extremely long demo, that took over an hour. Where 30 minutes were announced. Lots of technical difficulties as well that first time. Third time lucky. It being the charm.

Did manage to have the JVC demo RS3000, there was another NX9 in hall 5, Italian audio brand next to the food area in the tent next to fixed hall 5.
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Are you refering to Tutondo?

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post #70 of 98 Old 02-07-2019, 02:11 AM
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Don't remember. The addition to hall 5. When in hall 5 at entrance to this section, it will be at the front righthand corner, next to them huge woofers.
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post #71 of 98 Old 02-07-2019, 11:23 AM
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I found it, but the image was awfull. Colours were way off.

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post #72 of 98 Old 02-07-2019, 11:27 AM
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Also attended JBL Synthesis demo. Wasn’t too impressed with that. They use the SCL inwall (the big ones, SCL-2 I think) all around and for LCR.

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post #73 of 98 Old 02-07-2019, 03:20 PM
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^^^^

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post #74 of 98 Old 02-08-2019, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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So, another show has come to a conclusion with what I would call a very successful demo overall in case of the Alcons Pro-Ribbon Immersive Experience. Sure, it´s not as polished as some of the others (Procella & JBL for example, and by all means; kudos to both of these for a very proper setup!), but at least we cut demo sessions from 60 to 30 mins and tried to keep the introductions a bit shorter than before.

So, for this year, Alcons presented their new prototype version of a 90x120 degree waveguide for their smaller CRMSc H+V speakers, and six of these were used in the ceiling (Atmos layout). As these were 3D-printed waveguide prototypes I guess no final conclusion should be made, but as far as I could tell, they seemed to work quite fine. Being able to combine a "ribbon" (in this case a proprietary 800W peak power handling "on steroids" pro variant of one) with this kind of dispersion is really a good thing for what might be often be a challenge; low ceilings. Also, please notice that the dispersion specified is doing so at a full 1-20kHz range!

The new 18" CRMS subs performed great as well, but a new 15" is also released now, and both are available in slim "baffle wall" versions as well as those default ones.

This year we were in luck with the content I´d say; two very nice movies were just released prior to the show - Bohemian Rhapsody and A Star is Born. I´d say especially that cut from The Star is Born when Lady Gaga does her first concert with mr. knight in shining armour is such a powerful scene and really made an emotional impression on a lot of folks - me included...

All-in-all, I´m still a 110% Alcons fan & enthusiast - sure, it does come at somewhat of a cost, but it is also performing accordingly. It´s not priced as I would refer to as "ridiculous" at least, and the fact that it does perform on such level on everything from Beethoven to Deepwater Horizon to musicals and rock concerts just never ceases to amaze me!!

Now heading home, CEDIA would be next time they do the Pro Ribbon Experience, and hopefully I´m still (a small) part of the fun!
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post #75 of 98 Old 02-08-2019, 05:03 PM
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So, another show has come to a conclusion with what I would call a very successful demo overall in case of the Alcons Pro-Ribbon Immersive Experience. Sure, it´s not as polished as some of the others (Procella & JBL for example, and by all means; kudos to both of these for a very proper setup!), but at least we cut demo sessions from 60 to 30 mins and tried to keep the introductions a bit shorter than before.

So, for this year, Alcons presented their new prototype version of a 90x120 degree waveguide for their smaller CRMSc H+V speakers, and six of these were used in the ceiling (Atmos layout). As these were 3D-printed waveguide prototypes I guess no final conclusion should be made, but as far as I could tell, they seemed to work quite fine. Being able to combine a "ribbon" (in this case a proprietary 800W peak power handling "on steroids" pro variant of one) with this kind of dispersion is really a good thing for what might be often be a challenge; low ceilings. Also, please notice that the dispersion specified is doing so at a full 1-20kHz range!

The new 18" CRMS subs performed great as well, but a new 15" is also released now, and both are available in slim "baffle wall" versions as well as those default ones.

This year we were in luck with the content I´d say; two very nice movies were just released prior to the show - Bohemian Rhapsody and A Star is Born. I´d say especially that cut from The Star is Born when Lady Gaga does her first concert with mr. knight in shining armour is such a powerful scene and really made an emotional impression on a lot of folks - me included... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

All-in-all, I´m still a 110% Alcons fan & enthusiast - sure, it does come at somewhat of a cost, but it is also performing accordingly. It´s not priced as I would refer to as "ridiculous" at least, and the fact that it does perform on such level on everything from Beethoven to Deepwater Horizon to musicals and rock concerts just never ceases to amaze me!!

Now heading home, CEDIA would be next time they do the Pro Ribbon Experience, and hopefully I´m still (a small) part of the fun! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Thanks for your impressions . I am eagerly awaiting my Alcons setup to be done . I am transitioning to them purely based on the impressions of fellow AVSer’s here . I have never personally heard them . I have used Genelecs in my theater in past and current setup is all Seaton’s . I am going with CRMS MkII for LCRs and CRMS surrounds and CRMSc SRHV for ceilings with four Sentinel 3s . Trinnov for audio processor
I am hoping to be right again . I have bought Sony 5000, Datasat , ISCO Lens, Screen excellence , kaleidescape , seaton’s etc over last many years purely based on opinions of few people here whom I trust and have never been disappointed .
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Thanks for your impressions . I am eagerly awaiting my Alcons setup to be done . I am transitioning to them purely based on the impressions of fellow AVSer’s here . I have never personally heard them . I have used Genelecs in my theater in past and current setup is all Seaton’s . I am going with CRMS MkII for LCRs and CRMS surrounds and CRMSc SRHV for ceilings with four Sentinel 3s . Trinnov for audio processor
I am hoping to be right again . I have bought Sony 5000, Datasat , ISCO Lens, Screen excellence , kaleidescape , seaton’s etc over last many years purely based on opinions of few people here whom I trust and have never been disappointed .

Wow, that’s an impressive ‘purchasing list’ for sure, I believe Alcons should be a perfect fit in that setup! Please make sure you share your valuable impressions once up and running!


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post #77 of 98 Old 02-08-2019, 06:32 PM
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Thanks for your impressions . I am eagerly awaiting my Alcons setup to be done . I am transitioning to them purely based on the impressions of fellow AVSer’s here . I have never personally heard them . I have used Genelecs in my theater in past and current setup is all Seaton’s . I am going with CRMS MkII for LCRs and CRMS surrounds and CRMSc SRHV for ceilings with four Sentinel 3s . Trinnov for audio processor
I am hoping to be right again . I have bought Sony 5000, Datasat , ISCO Lens, Screen excellence , kaleidescape , seaton’s etc over last many years purely based on opinions of few people here whom I trust and have never been disappointed .

Wow, that’s an impressive ‘purchasing list’ for sure, I believe Alcons should be a perfect fit in that setup! Please make sure you share your valuable impressions once up and running! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]


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Surely will do
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Surely will do
Clicking on the Avsforum site for the first time many years ago has been the most expensive few milliseconds of my life for sure 😀
Other than having kids!
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Surely will do
Clicking on the Avsforum site for the first time many years ago has been the most expensive few milliseconds of my life for sure 😀
Other than having kids![IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Well I hope that was more than few milliseconds 😀
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Having or making???

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post #81 of 98 Old 02-08-2019, 08:54 PM
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Having or making???
Meant making 😀
Comment was for me , not for anyone else . Hoping that was not in millisecond category 😀
But jokes aside , almost all of my friends who don’t know of avsforum, are doing just fine without spending on these upgrades and can’t understand why si need to do these . Well we here are cursed with the pursuit for perfection . And then there are few who “ double stack” the pursuit . 😀
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Meant making 😀
Comment was for me , not for anyone else . Hoping that was not in millisecond category 😀
But jokes aside , almost all of my friends who don’t know of avsforum, are doing just fine without spending on these upgrades and can’t understand why si need to do these . Well we here are cursed with the pursuit for perfection . And then there are few who “ double stack” the pursuit . 😀
I just got back from CEDIA and was really impressed with the Alcons demo. They had a pricing sheet for the setup they were using, and one of the biggest cost components were the amps. The had 5 Sentinel3s @ $9,344 each and 1 Sentinel10 @ $12,464. That comes to $59,184 for amplification alone. In contrast, the speakers themselves (3 mkIIs, 4 18" subs, 6 SRHV/90 surrounds, and 6 SRHV/120 Atmos) only came to $53,529. I read somewhere else on AVS that these amps were required for Alcons. Is that true, or would it be possible to use other amps?
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Meant making 😀
Comment was for me , not for anyone else . Hoping that was not in millisecond category 😀
But jokes aside , almost all of my friends who don’t know of avsforum, are doing just fine without spending on these upgrades and can’t understand why si need to do these . Well we here are cursed with the pursuit for perfection . And then there are few who “ double stack” the pursuit . 😀
I just got back from CEDIA and was really impressed with the Alcons demo. They had a pricing sheet for the setup they were using, and one of the biggest cost components were the amps. The had 5 Sentinel3s @ $9,344 each and 1 Sentinel10 @ $12,464. That comes to $59,184 for amplification alone. In contrast, the speakers themselves (3 mkIIs, 4 18" subs, 6 SRHV/90 surrounds, and 6 SRHV/120 Atmos) only came to $53,529. I read somewhere else on AVS that these amps were required for Alcons. Is that true, or would it be possible to use other amps?
No you can’t buy speakers alone
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post #84 of 98 Old 09-15-2019, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got back from CEDIA and was really impressed with the Alcons demo. They had a pricing sheet for the setup they were using, and one of the biggest cost components were the amps. The had 5 Sentinel3s @ $9,344 each and 1 Sentinel10 @ $12,464. That comes to $59,184 for amplification alone. In contrast, the speakers themselves (3 mkIIs, 4 18" subs, 6 SRHV/90 surrounds, and 6 SRHV/120 Atmos) only came to $53,529. I read somewhere else on AVS that these amps were required for Alcons. Is that true, or would it be possible to use other amps?

Speakers and amps come as one package, that is accurate. The amps are really not just the amps in this case either; but a complete processing package. The amps feature custom, top quality (FIR) speaker normalisation as well as their integrated SIS speaker cable compensation system, correcting the loss of impedance and signal strength through actively monitoring the output stage and correcting it from physical cables going back from the speaker to the amp/processor. The sentinels also feature custom made output boards in the Hypex NC1200 class, which is one of the best boards out there. By other words, the amps / processors are a perfect fit for their speakers and that is also why they come as a bundle...




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post #85 of 98 Old 09-15-2019, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Alcons Audio Official Thread

Also, I should mention that you would be able to reduce the number of output stages by choosing the passive filtered CRMS compact as LCR instead of the CRMS MKII used at the show. I have been using the compacts as LCR channels for years and they are certainly fantastic as well.

I do also agree that Alcons should consider trying to bring a processor / amp with a higher channel count and somewhat lower output per channel to market, as the 750w per channel on their current Sentinel3 is a bit over the top for surround channels. I am sure they are looking into this, but I would presume they are currently very happy with the custom Hypex output cards they are using and they currently do not come in a sub 750w version in the (top) class they prefer. Again, I am sure they are looking at alternatives, but at least for the current Sentinels you can rest assured the results are top notch!


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post #86 of 98 Old 09-16-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Also, I should mention that you would be able to reduce the number of output stages by choosing the passive filtered CRMS compact as LCR instead of the CRMS MKII used at the show. I have been using the compacts as LCR channels for years and they are certainly fantastic as well.

I do also agree that Alcons should consider trying to bring a processor / amp with a higher channel count and somewhat lower output per channel to market, as the 750w per channel on their current Sentinel3 is a bit over the top for surround channels. I am sure they are looking into this, but I would presume they are currently very happy with the custom Hypex output cards they are using and they currently do not come in a sub 750w version in the (top) class they prefer. Again, I am sure they are looking at alternatives, but at least for the current Sentinels you can rest assured the results are top notch!


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Yes I agree in general . But problem will be if the surrounds and atmos have same sensitivity as LCRs then how do you level match them if they are being supplied half or one third the power . May they can have sentinel 3 with same power per channel but twice as many channels for surrounds and atmos applications and have some algorithm to direct more power to speaker that is supposed to provide more SPL per scene , as all surrounds and atmos are not going to be running at high SPLs simultaneously as they mostly are for immersive effects .
After having CRMS MKII and running them as 2 way active via Sentinel , I wouldn’t want to trade them , I would rather have less surrounds or heights . Just my opinion .
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post #87 of 98 Old 09-17-2019, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I agree in general . But problem will be if the surrounds and atmos have same sensitivity as LCRs then how do you level match them if they are being supplied half or one third the power . May they can have sentinel 3 with same power per channel but twice as many channels for surrounds and atmos applications and have some algorithm to direct more power to speaker that is supposed to provide more SPL per scene , as all surrounds and atmos are not going to be running at high SPLs simultaneously as they mostly are for immersive effects .
After having CRMS MKII and running them as 2 way active via Sentinel , I wouldn’t want to trade them , I would rather have less surrounds or heights . Just my opinion .
Not 100% I follow you there Mani, but in general the CRMS compacts in the smaller surround versions will never be close to requiring all the 750 watts per channel supplier by the Sentinel3´s. Even the CRMS compact LCR or the regular CRMS would be anywhere near requiring all the 750 watts in a regular residential setup, I´ve seen the ALControl software potmeters during quite heavy runs and they rarely pass half the available power... The 18" subs, however, are quite power hungry and would certainly thrive best using a Sentinel10 @ 2,5kW per channel... As for the CRMS vs. CRMS compact LCR´s I also agree with you that the larger CRMS´s is a little notch better in overall sound quality (we have had them both over a long span of time in our showroom), but the differences are quite subtle, especially in smaller rooms.

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post #88 of 98 Old 09-17-2019, 08:10 AM
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Yes I agree in general . But problem will be if the surrounds and atmos have same sensitivity as LCRs then how do you level match them if they are being supplied half or one third the power . May they can have sentinel 3 with same power per channel but twice as many channels for surrounds and atmos applications and have some algorithm to direct more power to speaker that is supposed to provide more SPL per scene , as all surrounds and atmos are not going to be running at high SPLs simultaneously as they mostly are for immersive effects .
After having CRMS MKII and running them as 2 way active via Sentinel , I wouldn’️t want to trade them , I would rather have less surrounds or heights . Just my opinion .
Not 100% I follow you there Mani, but in general the CRMS compacts in the smaller surround versions will never be close to requiring all the 750 watts per channel supplier by the Sentinel3´s. Even the CRMS compact LCR or the regular CRMS would be anywhere near requiring all the 750 watts in a regular residential setup, I´ve seen the ALControl software potmeters during quite heavy runs and they rarely pass half the available power... The 18" subs, however, are quite power hungry and would certainly thrive best using a Sentinel10 @ 2,5kW per channel... As for the CRMS vs. CRMS compact LCR´s I also agree with you that the larger CRMS´s is a little notch better in overall sound quality (we have had them both over a long span of time in our showroom), but the differences are quite subtle, especially in smaller rooms.
What I meant was that if your LCR and surrounds have same sensitivity , they will require same power to produce same SPL
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What I meant was that if your LCR and surrounds have same sensitivity , they will require same power to produce same SPL


Sure, but that would be balanced during calibration and setup. As long as you have a sufficient amount of power available from the amps you’re all good in such regards.


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post #90 of 98 Old 09-17-2019, 09:27 AM
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What I meant was that if your LCR and surrounds have same sensitivity , they will require same power to produce same SPL


Sure, but that would be balanced during calibration and setup. As long as you have a sufficient amount of power available from the amps you’️re all good in such regards. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]


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Agree

Only other thing I would say from my experience is that difference between CRMS Mk II that runs as two way active monitor and the CRMS SRIW ( not compact series ) is not subtle from what I can hear . I wish they had options to run all their speaker as active monitors with digital active crossovers in the amps . It’s almost after 10 years I have bought passive speakers . I used genelecs few years ago and then Seaton’s for last many years . There is something about active monitors , whether it is digital active crossover or better dynamics because of efficiency , I can’t pinpoint .
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