IMAX Enhanced - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 79Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 175 Old 04-27-2020, 03:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Only if you consider offering a different version of a movie to be merely a "marketing exercise". Until now, IMAX got permission from studios to show their version in theatres. The IMAX Enhanced program just means they are getting permission to release those versions on home video.

Likewise, I haven't seen anything on director's cuts that made me stop and say 'wow, this is definitely a director's cut'. But the studios have been releasing alternate versions since the beginning of home video (e.g., Blade Runner release on VHS).
IMAX in theatres is obvious. Offering different home video versions IS a marketing exercise.

Permission to release a version that seems no different. I have seen nothing in the IMAX enhanced titles I have that show it as being obviously IMAX enhanced, therefore it is a badge only in my opinion.
It means nothing, especially if the net effect is zero.
As an example of what I was expecting from the IMAX Enhanced moniker: If they released the Marvel Avengers movies all in 1.85:1 with enhanced audio, that would be worthwhile (and obviously IMAX) to me.

Also, thank you for illustrating my point.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 175 Old 04-27-2020, 08:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Offering different home video versions IS a marketing exercise.
I wasn't taking issue with how you define "marketing exercise" for yourself, just pointing out that you don't get to define it for everyone else.
Quote:
As an example of what I was expecting from the IMAX Enhanced moniker: If they released the Marvel Avengers movies all in 1.85:1 with enhanced audio, that would be worthwhile (and obviously IMAX) to me.
Expected and addressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
IMAX versions can vary from their non-IMAX counterparts in several ways: edit, run time, aspect ratio, colour timing, sound mix, etc. Most people associate IMAX with only one of those things: aspect ratio.
When you come up with your own version of IMAX Enhanced in your imagination, reality will invariably disappoint. There's no way that IMAX, DTS and studios could have known what you were "expecting" the IMAX Enhanced program to be. They're not mind readers. However, you can convey your disappointment to them by not buying any IMAX Enhanced hardware or software.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #63 of 175 Old 04-27-2020, 09:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I wasn't taking issue with how you define "marketing exercise" for yourself, just pointing out that you don't get to define it for everyone else. Expected and addressed. When you come up with your own version of IMAX Enhanced in your imagination, reality will invariably disappoint. There's no way that IMAX, DTS and studios could have known what you were "expecting" the IMAX Enhanced program to be. They're not mind readers. However, you can convey your disappointment to them by not buying any IMAX Enhanced hardware or software.
Whoa, getting surprisingly personal there.... Do you work for IMAX or something? Sorry if I offended you.

Whenever I have been to an IMAX theatre showing, there has always been a large, tall screen of a different aspect to normal theatres.
Is it really a big stretch to expect an IMAX home release to give us the full use of our (mostly) 16:9 screens? Nope, of course it isn't.
If nothing else it would immediately show to the eye that the release was 'IMAX Enhanced' and instantly give it some value.
If nothing is visually different to a standard release, then what is the point?

I think they have missed a trick by not mandating taller aspects and therefore the reality to any normal person is that IMAX is a plop exercise in marketing and means, for nearly everybody, precisely zero.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 175 Old 04-27-2020, 09:27 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Whoa, getting surprisingly personal there....
Other way 'round: I'm NOT taking issue with your personal definition of "marketing exercise" for yourself, whether used to describe your opinion of director's cuts or IMAX Enhanced. The fact that other/different opinions exist shouldn't be taken as anything personal. No one is asking you to change your opinion.
Quote:
I think they have missed a trick by not mandating taller aspects...
They didn't have a choice, since they use the IMAX theatrical master for IMAX Enhanced home releases. If the theatrical IMAX version was 2.35, then they cannot put a taller aspect version on disc that doesn't exist.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #65 of 175 Old 04-27-2020, 11:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Other way 'round: I'm NOT taking issue with your personal definition of "marketing exercise" for yourself, whether used to describe your opinion of director's cuts or IMAX Enhanced. The fact that other/different opinions exist shouldn't be taken as anything personal. No one is asking you to change your opinion. They didn't have a choice, since they use the IMAX theatrical master for IMAX Enhanced home releases. If the theatrical IMAX version was 2.35, then they cannot put a taller aspect version on disc that doesn't exist.
Fairly snuff.

Still much ado about nothing though in my view.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #66 of 175 Old 05-01-2020, 07:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Whenever I have been to an IMAX theatre showing, there has always been a large, tall screen of a different aspect to normal theatres.
Is it really a big stretch to expect an IMAX home release to give us the full use of our (mostly) 16:9 screens? Nope, of course it isn't.
If nothing else it would immediately show to the eye that the release was 'IMAX Enhanced' and instantly give it some value.
If nothing is visually different to a standard release, then what is the point?

I think they have missed a trick by not mandating taller aspects and therefore the reality to any normal person is that IMAX is a plop exercise in marketing and means, for nearly everybody, precisely zero.
I think it is important for people to first understand what IMAX is and what IMAX was. IMAX has its roots back in the 1960s when TV at home was just taking off in color and film movies were a million times the PQ and immersion quality of TV. IMAX at that time eclipsed regular Movie theaters in PQ and immersion and those are the giant 8 story high 1.43:1 screens most people think of as IMAX still and are still around. They were so huge and the cameras used to capture the images so huge no one shot mainstream movies with them and IMAX made their own movies about nature, history and science. The cinematography was much different do to the immersion of the viewers and the motion was mostly slow panning shots.

That is what I think of as IMAX and what we have now is what I think of as imax. Actually IMAX1.43 & IMAX1.89 is more correct and the new IMAX1.89 is dubbed LieMAX by haters that can’t get past that it is closer to scope and has moved away from IMAX1.43.

IMAX 1.89 is a product made for Hollywood and to compete with 2.39 scope movies with their AR but are open to showing 2.39 movies when that is what the director wants us to see. The vast majority of these new movies being made are being made in both ARs at the same time with film or digital and the taller AR for IMAX1.89 is akin to an open matte showing with the exception the director is intentionally making a taller AR. It is in no way an afterthought to open the matte. With more and more of these movies being shot digitally the cinematography is being composed for both versions at the same time and the premier AR is the IMAX1.89 but the scope version is always being shot scope safe with the intent of being cropped.

The question has been for me when it came to home release and the canister being 16:9 given the master is made in two AR why not fit the largest version on the media that will fit with the least black bars. This is what Cameron did way back in 2009 with Avatar so we have known this is possible. For some reason the only movies we got IMAXed were movies that had changing ARs and the ones fully 2 different ARs we get the scope version with huge black bars. It is extremely odd as the vast majority of home media sold or watched streaming is by people with 16:9 TV sets. The number of people with CIH+IMAX HT like I do is almost zero and of course the CIH HT folks are happy with the scope release.

My hopes for IMAX Enhanced was that ok with this new format IMAX the company could now bring this home media up to their standards with both audio and video and UHD BD would give them the quality to do that and get it to the home market. I had to assume they would move rapidly thru the catalog that was ready to go as it had already been played in their IMAX1.89 venues.

That hasn’t been the case. I can understand older film movies need an extensive process to make them to the near perfect IMAX standards.

The odd part is that many years ago IMAX put all their nature and science 1.43 AR movies on DVD and they were widely popular. I have them all and used to show them a lot with a 4:3 projector back in the day.

There is more going on than we are being told about all this as they rushed out all this equipment that is IMAX certified with people having high hopes for a flood of media to use it with and then only are getting a trickle. I personally don’t care about the equipment and I 99% just want the AR format on BD / UHD BD just like all the people are clamoring for on the BD forums.
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #67 of 175 Old 05-01-2020, 08:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I think it is important for people to first understand what IMAX is and what IMAX was. IMAX has its roots back in the 1960s when TV at home was just taking off in color and film movies were a million times the PQ and immersion quality of TV. IMAX at that time eclipsed regular Movie theaters in PQ and immersion and those are the giant 8 story high 1.43:1 screens most people think of as IMAX still and are still around. They were so huge and the cameras used to capture the images so huge no one shot mainstream movies with them and IMAX made their own movies about nature, history and science. The cinematography was much different do to the immersion of the viewers and the motion was mostly slow panning shots.

That is what I think of as IMAX and what we have now is what I think of as imax. Actually IMAX1.43 & IMAX1.89 is more correct and the new IMAX1.89 is dubbed LieMAX by haters that can’t get past that it is closer to scope and has moved away from IMAX1.43.

IMAX 1.89 is a product made for Hollywood and to compete with 2.39 scope movies with their AR but are open to showing 2.39 movies when that is what the director wants us to see. The vast majority of these new movies being made are being made in both ARs at the same time with film or digital and the taller AR for IMAX1.89 is akin to an open matte showing with the exception the director is intentionally making a taller AR. It is in no way an afterthought to open the matte. With more and more of these movies being shot digitally the cinematography is being composed for both versions at the same time and the premier AR is the IMAX1.89 but the scope version is always being shot scope safe with the intent of being cropped.

The question has been for me when it came to home release and the canister being 16:9 given the master is made in two AR why not fit the largest version on the media that will fit with the least black bars. This is what Cameron did way back in 2009 with Avatar so we have known this is possible. For some reason the only movies we got IMAXed were movies that had changing ARs and the ones fully 2 different ARs we get the scope version with huge black bars. It is extremely odd as the vast majority of home media sold or watched streaming is by people with 16:9 TV sets. The number of people with CIH+IMAX HT like I do is almost zero and of course the CIH HT folks are happy with the scope release.

My hopes for IMAX Enhanced was that ok with this new format IMAX the company could now bring this home media up to their standards with both audio and video and UHD BD would give them the quality to do that and get it to the home market. I had to assume they would move rapidly thru the catalog that was ready to go as it had already been played in their IMAX1.89 venues.

That hasn’t been the case. I can understand older film movies need an extensive process to make them to the near perfect IMAX standards.

The odd part is that many years ago IMAX put all their nature and science 1.43 AR movies on DVD and they were widely popular. I have them all and used to show them a lot with a 4:3 projector back in the day.

There is more going on than we are being told about all this as they rushed out all this equipment that is IMAX certified with people having high hopes for a flood of media to use it with and then only are getting a trickle. I personally don’t care about the equipment and I 99% just want the AR format on BD / UHD BD just like all the people are clamoring for on the BD forums.
Fantastic write up. Most informative. Thanks.

What I find even more peculiar is that films like Captain America: Civil War are presented on BD/UHD BD as 2.xx:1 AR but the 3D version is basically full screen (16:9) and you can see from that, the normal versions have been cropped.

I for one think IMAX Enhanced is a missed trick as the most obvious way to sell it is visually. The sound track may or may not be different, but how many are really going to truly appreciate that difference, especially when normal Atmos and DTS:X are so good anyway?

It is all a bit pointless to me as things stand.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #68 of 175 Old 05-01-2020, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
RS3771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 330 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Fantastic write up. Most informative. Thanks.

What I find even more peculiar is that films like Captain America: Civil War are presented on BD/UHD BD as 2.xx:1 AR but the 3D version is basically full screen (16:9) and you can see from that, the normal versions have been cropped.

I for one think IMAX Enhanced is a missed trick as the most obvious way to sell it is visually. The sound track may or may not be different, but how many are really going to truly appreciate that difference, especially when normal Atmos and DTS:X are so good anyway?

It is all a bit pointless to me as things stand.
The IMAX Enhanced documentary discs I watched were way superior to anything I've ever watched before. To my eyes, it was like watching 8K (even the wife commented, unprompted, about why these particular discs were so extraordinarily clear) and the audio was out of the world (DTS:X immersion that I hadn't experienced before) and significantly superior to Atmos for some reason in general. I'm yet to watch an IMAX Enhanced actual movie as opposed to documentary - actually, I did watch A Good Day in the Neighborhood and Charlie's Angels - didn't find them all that extraordinary I thought - but then, I was sleepy and not paying attention for these - LOL.
Archibald1 likes this.
RS3771 is offline  
post #69 of 175 Old 05-01-2020, 02:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Fantastic write up. Most informative. Thanks.

What I find even more peculiar is that films like Captain America: Civil War are presented on BD/UHD BD as 2.xx:1 AR but the 3D version is basically full screen (16:9) and you can see from that, the normal versions have been cropped.

I for one think IMAX Enhanced is a missed trick as the most obvious way to sell it is visually. The sound track may or may not be different, but how many are really going to truly appreciate that difference, especially when normal Atmos and DTS:X are so good anyway?

It is all a bit pointless to me as things stand.
I’m as perplexed as you when it comes to 2D, 3D and the resolution they pick. The standard explanation is that the full version works better for 3D and I agree and it also works better for 2D though as far as I’m concerned. There are people out there desperate enough for the full IMAX frame that they are ripping the 2D image from the 3D source (somehow) as a DIY method.

Lets face it none of us have a 6 story high screen at home to claim true IMAX most people buying the media just want the version they saw in IMAX and they know instead of black bars on their TV screen there is supposed to be image. Then there are a very few of us that are setup to IMAX at home on a large projected screen and are able to be seated around 1.5 times the height of the screen away for a home IMAX-like experience.

You are correct maybe the IMAX audio is a little better maybe it isn’t as some are eluding. But we can all agree media audio no matter what format is pretty impressive when done full on.

I also understand the laborious process IMAX DMR is and how it can be used to allow additional immersion of film that was maxed out at conventional theater immersion. They are actually making films better than they ever were, and in doing so allowing increased immersion or just clarity that was never there before.

Here is a typical comparison between scope and IMAX1.89 in a movie that was shot once getting both ARs but we are given the scope version only for home.



Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #70 of 175 Old 05-01-2020, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I’m as perplexed as you when it comes to 2D, 3D and the resolution they pick. The standard explanation is that the full version works better for 3D and I agree and it also works better for 2D though as far as I’m concerned. There are people out there desperate enough for the full IMAX frame that they are ripping the 2D image from the 3D source (somehow) as a DIY method.

Lets face it none of us have a 6 story high screen at home to claim true IMAX most people buying the media just want the version they saw in IMAX and they know instead of black bars on their TV screen there is supposed to be image. Then there are a very few of us that are setup to IMAX at home on a large projected screen and are able to be seated around 1.5 times the height of the screen away for a home IMAX-like experience.

You are correct maybe the IMAX audio is a little better maybe it isn’t as some are eluding. But we can all agree media audio no matter what format is pretty impressive when done full on.

I also understand the laborious process IMAX DMR is and how it can be used to allow additional immersion of film that was maxed out at conventional theater immersion. They are actually making films better than they ever were, and in doing so allowing increased immersion or just clarity that was never there before.

Here is a typical comparison between scope and IMAX1.89 in a movie that was shot once getting both ARs but we are given the scope version only for home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JI7CPISnLI


Indeed.
Until they can fill my screen with image then it is just 'IMAX As Per Normal' for me.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #71 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 08:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Indeed.
Until they can fill my screen with image then it is just 'IMAX As Per Normal' for me.
It is kind of hard for me to figure out what IMAX is going for in the home market. For sure they have a different and intriguing method of presentation in their commercial settings. As do regular Scope theaters in their own light.

The market place at home is 99.9% TV orientated and as we all know the definition of what is a TV is changing rapidly. It is really becoming commonplace to see 65” plus sizes 4k TV everyplace and for the most part topping out at reasonable priced around 85”. So most people didn’t make larger living rooms so it can be assumed over the last 5 years home viewing has become more immersive. Even so I doubt many people are moving their seating closer when watching a scope or IMAX movie and then pulling them back for Flat 1.85 movies or TV, so they are still doing a CIW presentation method. That is doing injustice to both scope and IMAX in terms of proper presentation.

So the distracters of IMAX at home are mainly people that have large investments in CIH (scope) front projection home theaters and mention the small number of actual IMAX releases for the home market and how they are filmed scope safe and they just watch them in scope cropping off the IMAX height and there are a few that just size them as CIH and watch them smaller to get the full frame height. Those are two workarounds and both sacrifice the vertical immersion that IMAX was intending.

The majority of people in favor of them are TV people that would just like a full image to fill their screen and never getting close to IMAX immersion levels. Then there is a second group that have FP 16:9 CIW theaters and they have no problem with presentation but they end up watching them at the same immersion as they do flat movies and TV shows, so again not living up to IMAX intent. A few CIW FP have 2 or more rows of seating in their theaters and adjust keeping the front row for the more immersive scope and IMAX movies. The smallest of percentage of us actually do anything close to CIH+IMAX presentation and I’m sure IMAX is not targeting us as their key home consumers.

In some of the other threads on IMAX Enhanced where people are buying the certified equipment I asked the question is anyone reconfiguring their scope screen to IMAX or moving seating and risers etc.? I got almost no response and the little I got said they have no plans to change anything visual about their setups. I then started a thread in the dedicated HT forum asking if any of the new builds were working around IMAX Enhanced and IMAX presentation and again I got almost no replies or interest.

This all leads me to wonder what is IMAX going for here, and maybe why they seem to be dragging their feet. In a way they are providing a product so good that hardly no one will be immersive enough to notice with sound most people with TVs and sound bars also wont notice. The one thing they have going for them for the vast number of consumers is filling their screen. That is the simplest of things to do with the movies that are in the can that way from the beginning and they are not doing it.
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #72 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 11:17 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
It is kind of hard for me to figure out what IMAX is going for in the home market.
I spoke to IMAX reps at CEDIA 2018 and what they were going for was pretty straightforward:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
When IMAX creates different versions of movies, they get shown in IMAX theatres for 2-3 weeks and then end up sitting on a shelf forever. The IMAX Enhanced program will allow them to finally monetize those dormant assets by releasing them on home video (in partnership with DTS).
Home video releases derived from IMAX theatrical masters. Nothing more complicated than that.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #73 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 12:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I spoke to IMAX reps at CEDIA 2018 and what they were going for was pretty straightforward: Home video releases derived from IMAX theatrical masters. Nothing more complicated than that.
If that was the case they could have blasted out Sully and a hundred other similar movies on day one of the program. Put their best master on BD and UHD BD and sold a bunch of them.

As I mentioned before Avatar went right on the BD as 16:9 ten years ago. It was no big deal as James Cameron waved his hands and declared he liked the taller AR and it was done. Christopher Nolan has been shooting IMAX AR changers for years along with others of late and they don’t crop the IMAX parts down to scope even though they could and did in scope theaters. Those discs get the IMAX seal of approval and I would assume IMAX is making something on them.

Movies like Sully were shot digitally with the dubbed IMAX digital cameras and those masters should be sitting on a hard drive ready to become home media.

IMAX wrapped this whole IMAX Enhanced thing in with needing or rather advising you have certified playback equipment and with their new remixed for IMAX audio. IMO and the reason for my above comments is the vast majority of people that are going to buy or rent or stream the IMAX version will be watching it on a 65” TV with a sound bar.

I just watched The Aeronauts a made for IMAX movie by Amazon and it was in IMAX theaters for a couple weeks and then went straight to my Amazon Prime with its full IMAX framing. I watched it at 1.5 screen height seating distance on my 110” setup and listened to it as 5.1 and it for me was a pretty nice “IMAX Experience”. It really is that simple, And the reason I said I don’t get it. These movies should be everywhere by now in wide circulation after a couple years of reading IMAX Enhanced is coming.

If you haven’t guessed I’m a huge fan of this level of immersion and I might have bought dozens of BDs as would millions of others if I wasn’t buying a scope cropped version of a movie like Sully when I know they will have an IMAX version any minute, any day, any year…..
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #74 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 01:56 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
If that was the case they could have blasted out Sully and a hundred other similar movies on day one of the program.
They could not have done that because they don't own those movies, the studios do. And so far only one studio (Sony) has been releasing IMAX Enhanced movies. And even when it comes to IMAX documentaries, the home video rights are owned by other companies (Mill Creek, Shout Factory), not IMAX themselves.

There is an imagined version of the IMAX Enhanced program (where IMAX owns their version of movies and they all have expanded aspect ratios) that the real-life IMAX Enhanced will never be able to live up to. It can only lead to disappointment (as seen in this thread).

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #75 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,674
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1647 Post(s)
Liked: 2286
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #76 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 02:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I spoke to IMAX reps at CEDIA 2018 and what they were going for was pretty straightforward: Home video releases derived from IMAX theatrical masters. Nothing more complicated than that.
Unless it fills my 16:9 screen it is all hot air I am afraid.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #77 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 02:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
They could not have done that because they don't own those movies, the studios do. And so far only one studio (Sony) has been releasing IMAX Enhanced movies. And even when it comes to IMAX documentaries, the home video rights are owned by other companies (Mill Creek, Shout Factory), not IMAX themselves.
In which case, IMAX Enhanced truly does mean nothing at all.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.

Last edited by Archibald1; 05-04-2020 at 04:38 AM.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #78 of 175 Old 05-02-2020, 02:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
There is an imagined version of the IMAX Enhanced program (where IMAX owns their version of movies and they all have expanded aspect ratios) that the real-life IMAX Enhanced will never be able to live up to. It can only lead to disappointment (as seen in this thread).
In which case, IMAX Enhanced is meaningless as a concept and thing.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #79 of 175 Old 05-03-2020, 06:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
They could not have done that because they don't own those movies, the studios do. And so far only one studio (Sony) has been releasing IMAX Enhanced movies. And even when it comes to IMAX documentaries, the home video rights are owned by other companies (Mill Creek, Shout Factory), not IMAX themselves.

There is an imagined version of the IMAX Enhanced program (where IMAX owns their version of movies and they all have expanded aspect ratios) that the real-life IMAX Enhanced will never be able to live up to. It can only lead to disappointment (as seen in this thread).
Dunkirk is clearly a Warner Brothers movie and gives acknowledgment to IMAX on the back of their case and lists the number of minutes the movie changes to IMAX.

Aquaman is DC Comics & Warner Brothers and gives acknowledgment to IMAX it was shown as 2.39 and 1.89 depending on the venue and put on home media as 1.77 except for the scope changing AR in a few places. It is clearly referred to as IMAX footage throughout the industry.

The Aeronauts is an Amazon Studios product that was released as 2.39 and 1.89 IMAX and played in IMAX venues. Also referred to as an IMAX movie and is easy to stream off Amazon Prime in all its IMAX framed image start to finish.

Sully is a Malpaso Production film and played as 2.39 and 1.89 in IMAX venues Eastwood could have released the 1.89 image if he wanted to on home video the same way Cameron did with Avatar a Twentieth Century Fox film because he liked the 3D 1.85 version better so he filled the home container with 1.77.

It may well be true that IMAX doesn’t own the rights to these movies and may not have a partnership with Warner or Amazon or any particular theater. All I’m saying is jack the price of the media 10% and give the 10% to IMAX for allowing you to use the name in your marketing and sell many more copies in the process as that is what the consumers want. It is a win win. The movies show for two weeks in IMAX venues and are then sitting forever, but they are not sitting at IMAX they are sitting with whoever owns them.

When it comes right down to it IMAX really has nothing except their good name. Anyone can make a 1.85 movie that in terms of AR is the same as a 1.89 movie. Saving Private Ryan is a 1.85 movie that is not filmed with cinematography to be like IMAX but there is nothing stopping anyone from filming that way. TV is even getting in the act with all these new streaming shows some call Prestige TV coming out as 2.0:1 and some of them are adjusting cinematography to suite larger displays and more immersive viewing.

IMAX as of right now is just a venue and all they own is their old nature movies that they are releasing again, but as great as they are people are not going to flock out and buy them they want the Hollywood movies in the full IMAX immersive frame size that at least fill their TVs up without cropping down a scope movie like pan n scan used to do.

My thoughts are people are willing to pay a premium to see the IMAX version at the theater then they must feel the IMAX cut is a premium product overall and they would be equally as eager to buy a home version of that. If it means cutting IMAX in for a sliver of the pie for the use of the branding then do it.
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #80 of 175 Old 05-03-2020, 08:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
...people are not going to flock out and buy them they want the Hollywood movies in the full IMAX immersive frame size that at least fill their TVs up without cropping down a scope movie like pan n scan used to do.
I haven't seen any sales figures or articles in industry rags supporting the claim that people won't buy IMAX Enhanced titles (disc or streaming), let alone won't buy them specifically because of the aspect ratio. If you could link to something backing up that claim, that would be helpful.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #81 of 175 Old 05-03-2020, 11:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I haven't seen any sales figures or articles in industry rags supporting the claim that people won't buy IMAX Enhanced titles (disc or streaming), let alone won't buy them specifically because of the aspect ratio. If you could link to something backing up that claim, that would be helpful.
I think you misunderstood my comment I was saying the hottest item in the IMAX genre is not their nature and science movies. When people speak out in the BD forums about new releases the clamor is normally that they are hoping for the IMAX cut and then after the release the clamor is disappointment in getting the scope version that doesn’t fill their screen and cuts off enough of the movie they know belongs there because they went and saw it in an IMAX venue. The IMAX Enhanced nature and science movies have seen good sales and IMO that is in part because there are so few movies done yet and people are itching to see what it is like.

Speaking of the nature and science movies most of them were intended to be viewed super tall in 1.43:1 years ago when they were released on DVD that’s the way they were transferred. Movies like Dunkirk were more recently shot in the 1.43:1 format and shown that way in real IMAX venues. IMO I would personally hope at some point we get that whole uncut 1.43 version at home. I will gladly take black bars at the sides to get to see the movie the way only a handful of people ever saw it. I will make the effort to move my seats a little closer or zoom a little taller and see the whole movie with proper immersion.
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #82 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 04:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I haven't seen any sales figures or articles in industry rags supporting the claim that people won't buy IMAX Enhanced titles (disc or streaming), let alone won't buy them specifically because of the aspect ratio. If you could link to something backing up that claim, that would be helpful.
You won't either, because they simply will have no choice but to buy them if they are only available in one flavour (but with an 'IMAX Enhanced' sticker on) at 2.xx:1.

I was going to buy Zombieland 2 anyway as I enjoyed the first one. When it arrived and it had 'IMAX Enhanced' emblazoned on the front, I thought oh cool it will fill my screen!...……..

Alas it did not and I was left wondering what it all actually means if the viewing experience is zero different to normal.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #83 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 04:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I think you misunderstood my comment I was saying the hottest item in the IMAX genre is not their nature and science movies. When people speak out in the BD forums about new releases the clamor is normally that they are hoping for the IMAX cut and then after the release the clamor is disappointment in getting the scope version that doesn’t fill their screen and cuts off enough of the movie they know belongs there because they went and saw it in an IMAX venue. The IMAX Enhanced nature and science movies have seen good sales and IMO that is in part because there are so few movies done yet and people are itching to see what it is like.

Speaking of the nature and science movies most of them were intended to be viewed super tall in 1.43:1 years ago when they were released on DVD that’s the way they were transferred. Movies like Dunkirk were more recently shot in the 1.43:1 format and shown that way in real IMAX venues. IMO I would personally hope at some point we get that whole uncut 1.43 version at home. I will gladly take black bars at the sides to get to see the movie the way only a handful of people ever saw it. I will make the effort to move my seats a little closer or zoom a little taller and see the whole movie with proper immersion.
Quite right! IMAX are 'this' close to it all dying on it's feet if they aren't very very careful.

They have one very obvious USP and way of making the most of it and that is to fill the damn frame with picture!! I mean, DUH!

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #84 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 06:04 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 24,674
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1647 Post(s)
Liked: 2286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Quite right! IMAX are 'this' close to it all dying on it's feet if they aren't very very careful.

They have one very obvious USP and way of making the most of it and that is to fill the damn frame with picture!! I mean, DUH!
And the masses aren't going to buy them for the audio (enhancement?) either, that would only be those in extreme niche places like this. So as you have said, if they don't provide blockbuster titles that have some image difference this is pretty much a nothing moniker.

Art
Archibald1 likes this.
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #85 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 06:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Quite right! IMAX are 'this' close to it all dying on it's feet if they aren't very very careful.

They have one very obvious USP and way of making the most of it and that is to fill the damn frame with picture!! I mean, DUH!
IMAX brand and unique selling point was first back in the late 60s the massive screen size and more than total immersive viewing experience. To pull that off they had to invent a film system that to this day surpasses anything we know as high definition. They also prided themselves on superior audio. As no one was willing to film with this expensive process and the massive screen immersion didn’t lend itself to mainstream movies they were forced to make their own content and they stood off to the side of the movie industry in their own world. About as far Hollywood as they would go is in getting big stars to narrate the movies.

They re-branded themselves with this IMAX1.89 thing and started attracting Hollywood and started building or converting theaters over to a new standard but they held tight to what made them known in the first place and that is they wanted to shine in PQ & AQ over the norm. They picked this AR as it was to be more immersive or at least the same immersive as scope movies only taller and it actually want full on IMAX but as immersive as they felt Hollywood action movies could handle.

So now comes along home releases of this content and they lose all control over PQ & AQ for the most part and they desperately know that is a big part of their brand and without it they are left with little other than their AR and as mentioned before anyone can make movies in any AR they want it is not a proprietary thing IMAX has making a 16:9 image fit a TV. So they stuck to the original branding and built a whole new certified IMAX experience and suggesting to get the full IMAX Experience you need to follow all the program. When IMO most people just want to see the IMAX AR image and the rest is going to be as good as the equipment they have can do.

I applaud IMAX for wanting to put the very best on disc and if what they have to work with isn’t good enough they have a plan to improve it. There USP is true to their history in that way. Trouble is there are other people working to the same ends or just about as good trying to cut them out. I used to enjoy IMAX movies at home DVD quality and I’m happy with BD quality and UHD BD quality would be amazing.

They need to figure out a way to get what is being shown in their 1.89 venues onto home media in their format just as quickly as it is getting put out in scope format and it will sell. If they can strike deals with the parent companies to play their movies in IMAX venues why cant they strike deals to release the same movies to home markets in their format?
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #86 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 06:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
And the masses aren't going to buy them for the audio (enhancement?) either, that would only be those in extreme niche places like this. So as you have said, if they don't provide blockbuster titles that have some image difference this is pretty much a nothing moniker.

Art
Indeed.
When I first heard of it I imagined new releases of things like Infinity War and Endgame in glorious full frame pictures....

What we get is two films (thus far for me anyway) that have a HUGE(!) sticker on the front saying 'IMAX Enhanced', and they look (and sound) no different to anything else on my shelf!

Disappointment is not descriptive enough.

They might as well have put a sticker on the front saying, 'See if you can tell us what makes this IMAX Enhanced and win a 4:3 TV!'.....

Hey, it would be missing the sides of the image, but there would be no damn bars!

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #87 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 09:42 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
When people speak out in the BD forums about new releases the clamor is normally that they are hoping for the IMAX cut and then after the release the clamor is disappointment in getting the scope version that doesn’t fill their screen and cuts off enough of the movie they know belongs there because they went and saw it in an IMAX venue.
There were around 36 Hollywood movies shown in IMAX last year, out of which only 7 had expanded aspect ratios (that too, often for selected sequences only, not the entire length of the movie). So if people went to IMAX venues to watch Hollywood movies, they know that 4 out of 5 times it was a 2.35 presentation.

In addition to this, the most recent IMAX Enhanced trailer shows clips from a variety of movies, but only one movie (Spider-Man: Far From Home) is shown filling the screen. ALL the other clips are 2.35.


After all this, if there are people still determined to be disappointed that IMAX Enhanced doesn't automatically mean full screen, then that's on them, not IMAX.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #88 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 12:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,594
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2760 Post(s)
Liked: 1756
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
There were around 36 Hollywood movies shown in IMAX last year, out of which only 7 had expanded aspect ratios (that too, often for selected sequences only, not the entire length of the movie). So if people went to IMAX venues to watch Hollywood movies, they know that 4 out of 5 times it was a 2.35 presentation.

In addition to this, the most recent IMAX Enhanced trailer shows clips from a variety of movies, but only one movie (Spider-Man: Far From Home) is shown filling the screen. ALL the other clips are 2.35.

https://youtu.be/DuP1JG5ctuo

After all this, if there are people still determined to be disappointed that IMAX Enhanced doesn't automatically mean full screen, then that's on them, not IMAX.
So that stops it from currently being just a badge how exactly?

No-one needs to be determined to be disappointed by it. That happened all by itself.

IMAX came up to me and promised to give me a big kiss on the eyeballs with full screen goodness and then proceeded to just walk away, leaving me with nothing of note.
Disappointment naturally stepped in behind it.

The only 'determination' I have with regards to IMAX, is that they maximise its effect in an obvious way.
In a way you can discuss with people.
Not in an "Oooo did you see the lack of picture noise on that UHD disc"... kind of way, but in an "Oooo did you see xxxxx in it's IMAX Enahnced version? It filled the screen with superb clarity" kind of way.
Something which makes the average punter say "Wow, yeah, that is different to normal, that must be what IMAX Enhanced is all about..." "I will go and buy that version!"

Why even bother mentioning itself, if it isn't going to do something obvious on screen to announce it's presence?

I have seen enough IMAX in theatres to know none of it ever looked like normal presentations and I have also seen enough behind the scenes featurettes to know that basically all movies are shot in multiple aspects.

So just give us the half the 3D version in 16:9 if it is easier!

Interestingly, which movie in that You tube video is the one you could point at with no other prompting and say it was IMAX? The one filling the screen, that's the one!
The important thing IMAX should mandate to make a proper success of it, is instant recognition of their brand by making all the visuals screen filling. Simples.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking. ~~~ "Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #89 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 02:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,473
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2442 Post(s)
Liked: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
There were around 36 Hollywood movies shown in IMAX last year, out of which only 7 had expanded aspect ratios
I’ll take 7 per year.

The thing about IMAX in theaters and IMAX Enhanced at home the quality and the theater design allows for greater immersion of even scope movies. when IMAX buys an existing venue and converts it to an IMAX 1.89 theater they reconfigure the screen and seating numbers and distances and of course upgrade projection and sound. Many people walk in to their old venue with expectations of an 8 story screen and think this isn’t much bigger than the old one. Thus the idea of LieMAX got started.

I would watch IMAX Enhanced scope more immersive than the scope version if the quality I expect from IMAX is there.

It is fine by me they are working their magic on all movies regardless of AR, but that doesn’t change if it played in IMAX as 1.89 and I can only buy a black bar 2.39 version something isn’t right IMAX Enhanced or not.
Archibald1 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #90 of 175 Old 05-04-2020, 03:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 28,787
Mentioned: 250 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7780 Post(s)
Liked: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
It is fine by me they are working their magic on all movies regardless of AR, but that doesn’t change if it played in IMAX as 1.89 and I can only buy a black bar 2.39 version something isn’t right IMAX Enhanced or not.
How would that be possible when IMAX Enhanced titles use IMAX theatrical masters?

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off