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post #301 of 858 Old 10-31-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
I have a large sample of that. It is one of the best weaves as well as the NEO screen material. However when compared to a solid screen the difference in local pixel level contrast is very obvious for my uses. I'm in the minority in that I also use my system for computer work and the sharpness of text is very critical. For a movie this difference in sharpness likely doesn't matter.

So what I'm wondering is that perhaps as the screen size increases this pixel sharpness/contrast for a weave becomes less of an issue. Also the Christie projector has lumens to spare so the low gain of the weave shouldn't be a factor.
Here is a comparison I did awhile back between da-lite matte white and V6. Of course ST100 is even better than the da-lite but I didn't have that material at the time. You can see the blooming of the V6 even on the not-sharp projector that was used for the test.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1462291885

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...6&d=1462291885

I'd love for this to be a non-issue with a large screen and bright/sharp projector. However at these price points I'd cringe at sacrificing image quality!
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post #302 of 858 Old 10-31-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
Arrow-AV, what screen are you going to use? I am yet to see a weave screen which compares to something like a perfed ST100 visually. Of course a weave screen is better for audio.

Perhaps at these huge screen sizes the negative effects of the weave screens is diminished? In particular the sharpness loss due to local light contamination.
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Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Have you seen the DreamScreen UltraWeave V6 screen? If so, did you also find it lacking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
I have a large sample of that. It is one of the best weaves as well as the NEO screen material. However when compared to a solid screen the difference in local pixel level contrast is very obvious for my uses. I'm in the minority in that I also use my system for computer work and the sharpness of text is very critical. For a movie this difference in sharpness likely doesn't matter.

So what I'm wondering is that perhaps as the screen size increases this pixel sharpness/contrast for a weave becomes less of an issue. Also the Christie projector has lumens to spare so the low gain of the weave shouldn't be a factor.
There is another reason for using the DreamScreen UltraWeave V6, namely that it is anti-speckle... so the negligible speckle with this projector that has been reduced via usage of laser diodes with many multiple difference wavelengths, should be rendered completely non-existent if using the DreamScreen UltraWeave V6 material.

It is also slightly contrast enhancing as well to boot.

For this reason, it is at the top of my very short short-list. Although obviously I am going to need to evaluate how it performs specifically with respect to this projector.

DT Screens also have a new material that looks promising, regarding which I will be shortly evaluating some material samples. Where it makes sense to consider using their material because it will be their screen product (because I want to have the screen turn into a giant piece of artwork when not in use, which is what this particular screen product does ) but if it does not check out OK, or otherwise, I will be using the DreamScreen UltraWeave V6 material; which is what I recommend using with RGB laser projectors anyway for the aforementioned reasons

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Originally Posted by LondonBenji View Post
So what's these "horrible inefficiencies" that are spoken of? I'm not here to start/continue any arguments, I, like I'm sure many other silent watchers of this thread are just in awe of the sheer numbers being thrown around and I'm personally just interested in the details....

Like, how much power does it require? How many circuit breakers are we talking here? How many sacrificial lumens are "lost" to produce such an image that you guys are so taken by? THE LURKERS WANT TO KNOW MORE

I understand you guys are under NDAs, we just like hearing the details, keep it up!
Well let me put it this way, almost ALL projectors have "inefficiencies", so this is nothing new. But as soon as we are in a position to publish the specific technical information relating to power useage etc. in this particular instance I will be sure to let you know

That said, suffice to say for now, if you are the sort of person who would not wish to own a supercar or hypercar because of their "inefficiencies" then this is clearly not the right choice of projector for you !

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Also, personally, I think I prefer the industrial look of the projector, I mean, it distinctly communicates the message that you aren't ****ing around here. Rather imposing and I like it!
I could not have worded it better myself! In fact, I might install a sign / plaque onto the entrance door to the cinema which states in big bold letters: "WE AREN'T ****ING AROUND HERE !"


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post #303 of 858 Old 10-31-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
Here is a comparison I did awhile back between da-lite matte white and V6. Of course ST100 is even better than the da-lite but I didn't have that material at the time. You can see the blooming of the V6 even on the not-sharp projector that was used for the test.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1462291885

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...6&d=1462291885

I'd love for this to be a non-issue with a large screen and bright/sharp projector. However at these price points I'd cringe at sacrificing image quality!
In my experience the performance of the V6 with high-end projectors has been very good. I have not noticed any instances of significant blooming.

Have you tried the V6 with RGB laser projectors? It's a marriage made in heaven. Definitely the best screen material to use with these. Hence, why it is at the top of my short-list.

However, of course I will be testing it with respect to the Christie projector, but I am expecting its performance with respect to the Christie to be nothing short of excellent

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post #304 of 858 Old 10-31-2018, 02:23 PM
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Cool. Anti-speckle isn't yet a consideration for me but hopefully someday I'll have an RGB projector
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post #305 of 858 Old 10-31-2018, 03:47 PM
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Did someone say Pininfarina?!

Available in any color combination, even with Vanta Black Highlights........


May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
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post #306 of 858 Old 10-31-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I could not have worded it better myself! In fact, I might install a sign / plaque onto the entrance door to the cinema which states in big bold letters: "WE AREN'T ****ING AROUND HERE !"

You are now of course, obligated to post a pic when done!
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post #307 of 858 Old 11-01-2018, 02:14 AM
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Based on the specs that Arrow-AV posted, this projector is better than anything I could have humanly imagined or dreamed of. After reading the review, I guess the only way to make it even better is to make the next projector with 8K resolution and 100% Rec.2020. The higher nit count can probably be solved with more laser modules stacked up. Other than that, I don't know where they can possibly go from a scientific point of view. I mean, the human eye cannot biologically appreciate anything better.
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post #308 of 858 Old 11-01-2018, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
Here is a comparison I did awhile back between da-lite matte white and V6. Of course ST100 is even better than the da-lite but I didn't have that material at the time. You can see the blooming of the V6 even on the not-sharp projector that was used for the test.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1462291885

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...6&d=1462291885

I'd love for this to be a non-issue with a large screen and bright/sharp projector. However at these price points I'd cringe at sacrificing image quality!
I understand what you are saying, I noticed the inter pixel contrast issue on the V5 material, but interestingly much less on the V6. I think there is always going to be a sharpness loss when you are pixel peeping on an AT material compared to a good flat solid surface material.

To be honest though you're comparison isn't entirely fair - the solid material should have been micro-perf so you are comparing like with like - I'd wager the micro-perf is a lot more detrimental up that close.
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post #309 of 858 Old 11-01-2018, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I understand what you are saying, I noticed the inter pixel contrast issue on the V5 material, but interestingly much less on the V6. I think there is always going to be a sharpness loss when you are pixel peeping on an AT material compared to a good flat solid surface material.

To be honest though you're comparison isn't entirely fair - the solid material should have been micro-perf so you are comparing like with like - I'd wager the micro-perf is a lot more detrimental up that close.
Yep and they should have been brightness matched.
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post #310 of 858 Old 11-01-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I understand what you are saying, I noticed the inter pixel contrast issue on the V5 material, but interestingly much less on the V6. I think there is always going to be a sharpness loss when you are pixel peeping on an AT material compared to a good flat solid surface material.

To be honest though you're comparison isn't entirely fair - the solid material should have been micro-perf so you are comparing like with like - I'd wager the micro-perf is a lot more detrimental up that close.
I could see the affect with computer text from a regular viewing distance. I do know this is an extreme use case though.

I do have a sample of micro-perf which doesn't have the same issue as long as you are far enough back such that the perfs are not visible. With my vision that was about 13-14 feet.
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post #311 of 858 Old 11-02-2018, 03:24 PM
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CHRISTIE NEW HIGH CONTRAST 4K HDR RGB LASER PROJECTOR REVIEW

SUMMARY:

Not only is this without a shadow of a doubt the best video projector in the world, this is quite literally the best video image performance that I have ever seen in my life to date. Period. End of story. Goodbye. The End.

It significantly outperforms not only all other projectors, but also all other video display devices that I can think of with respect to overall video performance, across all formats, from televisions (whether OLED, LED LCD, MicroLED or otherwise) to modular emissive video walls.

In my opinion, this is the new video reference gold standard against which all other video displays should now be compared. It is quite literally the ultimate video display and with it Christie has set a benchmark of near insurmountable Everest proportions.


MEASUREMENTS:

CONTRAST:

ON/OFF contrast and ANSI contrast by no means tell you the whole picture as far as contrast performance of video content is concerned. Why? Because neither ON/OFF nor ANSI are in fact directly applicable with respect to actual video content.

ON/OFF contrast and ANSI contrast are the two extremes of the contrast range that relates to video content. The ON/OFF Contrast only gives you the black level on a completely black picture. Similarly, the ANSI Contrast only gives you the black level at the extreme upper limit of video content brightness. Hence, typically over 99% of video content falls within these.

Consequently, in order to gain a proper understanding and to be able to properly assess and evaluate what is the comparative contrast and associated black levels performances regarding different display devices we really need to be taking measurements with respect to the contrast performance in-between the ON/OFF and ANSI contrast; namely the full range of ADL (Average Display Level) contrast.

Where ADL is defined as being the average on-screen brightness after gamma correction; and the ON/OFF contrast corresponds to an ADL of 0%, and the ANSI contrast corresponds to an ADL of 50%.


The following contrast measurements were taken at actual usage light output levels:


NATIVE ON/OFF CONTRAST (0% ADL) = 21,150,500:1

1% ADL = 83,649:1

2% ADL = 44,545:1

3% ADL = 34,730:1

4% ADL = 19,461:1

5% ADL = 15,452:1

10% ADL = 8,228:1

20% ADL = 3,771:1

ANSI CONTRAST (50% ADL) = 1,035:1


LUMINANCE:

● PEAK LIGHT OUTPUT = 30,000 LUMENS

● 5.365m / 17’ 7” WIDE 0.9 - 1.0 GAIN SCREEN , WITH CIRCA 16,500 LUMENS LIGHT OUTPUT:

- WHITE LEVEL = 440 NITS

- BLACK LEVEL = 0.00002 NITS


GAMUT COVERAGE:

● %AGE OF BT.2020 COLOR GAMUT = 92.2%

- Both the RED and BLUE are beyond BT.2020; with the GREEN falling slightly short:



INPUT LAG:

● LATENCY = 16 ms
Awesome Review!

Thank you!

My dream projector:-)

Love to see the ADL contrast for a projector similar to the ones on Dolby cinema.

Crazy 1% adl over 80000!!!!

But maybe local dimming is "cheating " a bit, no?
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post #312 of 858 Old 11-02-2018, 07:28 PM
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Awesome Review!

Thank you!
No, thank YOU for all your excellent work and wealth of information regarding ADL contrast and measurements

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My dream projector :-)
I think it's fair to say that this is everyone's dream projector !!!

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Love to see the ADL contrast for a projector similar to the ones on Dolby cinema.

Crazy 1% adl over 80000!!!!
Yeah, all the measurements for this projector are completely bonkers!

This projector truly is the new reference gold standard against which all other projectors should be compared

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But maybe local dimming is "cheating " a bit, no?
Nah, IMO local dimming with projectors is no more "cheating" than FALD is with respect to TVs and/or luminance control at the individual pixel level with respect to emissive displays such as OLED TVs


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post #313 of 858 Old 11-03-2018, 04:55 AM
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Nah, IMO local dimming with projectors is no more "cheating" than FALD is with respect to TVs and/or luminance control at the individual pixel level with respect to emissive displays such as OLED TVs

How does the local dimming work? Does it do dimming(contrast expansion) for the whole range? Or does it only do dimming for the pixels that are absolute black?

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post #314 of 858 Old 11-03-2018, 05:16 AM
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How does the local dimming work? Does it do dimming(contrast expansion) for the whole range? Or does it only do dimming for the pixels that are absolute black?
The whole range

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post #315 of 858 Old 11-03-2018, 05:25 AM
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A few pictures:


First shows head and laser module rack behind:





Another angle: Full rack 12 modules


These photos better be clips from the movie 2001 space odyssey not of the projector lol. That looks more like a 1968 vision of a rocket ship than a projector.

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These photos better be clips from THE MOVIE 2001 SPACE ODYSSEY not of the projector lol. That looks more like a 1968 vision...
Well that explains why it kept calling me 'Dave'

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Well that explains why it kept calling me 'Dave'




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post #318 of 858 Old 11-03-2018, 06:14 PM
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Well that explains why it kept calling me 'Dave'


Surely you jest Sir.
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post #319 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 01:02 AM
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These photos better be clips from THE MOVIE 2001 SPACE ODYSSEY not of the projector lol. That looks more like a 1968 vision...
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Well that explains why it kept calling me 'DAVE'

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Surely you jest Sir.
Do you get the joke now?:

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post #320 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 10:46 AM
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Needs to be a balance.



A few easily removable cosmetic skins would do wonders for it's looks.....and residential appeal.


Well, I would feel ridiculous to have this thing in my house if it weren’t somehow disguised. I would feel ridiculous every single time I watched a movie. But I’m not a millionaire, so what do I know?


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post #321 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 12:05 PM
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Well, I would feel ridiculous to have this thing in my house if it weren’t somehow disguised. I would feel ridiculous every single time I watched a movie. But I’m not a millionaire, so what do I know?
Well it would be disguised wouldn't it? In fact, it would be as disguised as you can get, namely completely 100% invisible... given it would not actually be in the room, but a separate plant / mechanical room situated behind your cinema. So you would feel no more ridiculous than you would regarding your household boiler, climate control condensor units, generator, electrical board / fusebox etc...

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post #322 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I would feel ridiculous to have this thing in my house if it weren’t somehow disguised. I would feel ridiculous every single time I watched a movie. But I’m not a millionaire, so what do I know?


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Honestly... who is going to put this out in a theater or multi-use room ? It's going to be in a mechanical type or projection room. Frankly, I think the whole discussion of this needing an esthetic make over is like saying your furnace needs to have one.


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Honestly... who is going to put this out in a theater or multi-use room ? It's going to be in a mechanical type or projection room. Frankly, I think the whole discussion of this needing an esthetic make over is like saying your furnace needs to have one.


Art
Or household boiler, climate control condensor units, generator, electrical board / fusebox etc

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post #324 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 01:17 PM
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Question So who will it be that actually gets one of these for personal use in their HT ???

Hello, AVS,
Well guys in my case I'll be interested to see who on the AVS Internet Site actually purchases one
Seriously, I suppose there are maybe a small percentage on the site that have those resources but the real question is

Who out of that small percentage is willing to make the final-decision and actually have one of these Bad-Boys installed even if they do have the monies.



Terry
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post #325 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, AVS,
Well guys in my case I'll be interested to see who on the AVS Internet Site actually purchases one
Seriously, I suppose there are maybe a small percentage on the site that have those resources but the real question is

Who out of that small percentage is willing to make the final-decision and actually have one of these Bad-Boys installed even if they do have the monies.



Terry

There is going to be more than one version each having a release timeline . As things progress I think who will clear up. Presently the one I saw sits alone as the pinnacle of image reproduction IMO.






Art
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post #326 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 02:18 PM
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Well, well...this technical masterpiece will reside within the walls of a HT equipment room, not a plant room or a workshop , surrounded by well crafted processors, amplifiers with aesthetic appeal etc Rob Hahn's equipment room comes to mind!

Let's face it, this Christie is a purely functional projector for a commercial space, built like a delivery truck in the looks department. Would it hurt to have the external panels redesigned to give it an appealing organic look for a residential space, absolutely not, they could even charge a reasonable premium.

But each to their own!

May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
Hiran J Wijeyesekera - 1985.
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post #327 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Well, well...this technical masterpiece will reside within the walls of a HT equipment room, not a plant room or a workshop , surrounded by well crafted processors, amplifiers with aesthetic appeal etc Rob Hahn's equipment room comes to mind!

Let's face it, this Christie is a purely functional projector for a commercial space, built like a delivery truck in the looks department. Would it hurt to have the external panels redesigned to give it an appealing organic look for a residential space, absolutely not, they could even charge a reasonable premium.

But each to their own!

All I know is I just hope the folks at Christie don't spend one second of their time on such and instead devote their time to getting this device out there to do what it has been designed to do ...produce the best image on screen available. If you would have been top to bottom, literally, in Rob Hahn's home as I did you would see that the room where the Sony resides now is an exception. I can understand to some degree in his case since his projection room glass is very very large ,even compared to a lot of commercial cinemas, thus when you are in his back row you have a clear view into that room so making it looks nice makes sense.





If you were to see the room holding a lot of his power conditioning , Kaleidescape gear and switches etc, although neat and tidy by anyone's standards, it looks like a mechanical room.






Art

Last edited by Art Sonneborn; 11-04-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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post #328 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
All I know is I just hope the folks at Christie don't spend one second of their time on such and instead devote their time to getting this device out there to do what it has been designed to do ...produce the best image on screen available. If you would have been top to bottom, literally, in Rob Hahn's home as I did you would see that the room where the Sony resides now is an exception. I can understand to some degree in his case since his projection room glass is very very large ,even compared to a lot of commercial cinemas, thus when you are in his back row you have a clear view into that room so making it looks nice makes sense.


If you were to see the room holding a lot of his power conditioning , Kaleidescape gear and switches etc, although neat and tidy by anyone's standards, it looks liker a mechanical room.






Art

Purely a personal preference, no right or wrong. I do love Rob Hahn's room, such attention to detail, he's a perfectionist!

Kudos Hahnster!


May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
Hiran J Wijeyesekera - 1985.
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post #329 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Purely a personal preference, no right or wrong. I do love Rob Hahn's room, such attention to detail, he's a perfectionist!

Kudos Hahnster!


That I will agree with !
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post #330 of 858 Old 11-04-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Honestly... who is going to put this out in a theater or multi-use room ? It's going to be in a mechanical type or projection room. Frankly, I think the whole discussion of this needing an esthetic make over is like saying your furnace needs to have one.


Art


I think the reasonable question is “who is going to put this in a house”. But I live in a 55sq meter apartment, so I wasn’t really expecting most people to understand what I meant by “ridiculous”. Somewhere along the line, the “home theater” feeling is completely lost. Excuse me for the pseudo-philosophical rambling.


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