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post #661 of 858 Old 04-30-2019, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I watched it on my 65OLED using TIVO 4K Bolt - the picture was so bad with all kinds of issues - will try on Hulu using AppleTV 4K...watched in a completely dark room and still it was horrible compressed etc.
Until we don't get high quality input of the picture from the source no matter what display we have does not count
We also watched it on our 65” A9F OLED, and not horrible but had issues. Sounded like the Amazon stream might be the best.....

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post #662 of 858 Old 06-25-2019, 01:54 PM
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These comments about the Barco Thor and its 3D capability make me wonder if I've auditioned it or not.


a new cinema chain opened up in Norway just over a year ago with 14 new venues, of which the flagship venue is a 700 seat (15x25m) 3D IMAX. IIRC the IMAX cinema boasts dual proprietary 3D laser projectors (Not Dolby Vision for sure, they have no where near true blacks or anywhere close to infinite CR) while the all other 13 venues (from 50 to 400 seats) are said to have Dolby Atmos and '4K laser projection' without specifying any more than that.



the picture quality is good, but nothing mind blowing. There's a sign near the entrance that advertises 'Barco Flagship Projection'.

I'd love to find out which projectors they use in the 13 smaller venues, the chain is Odeon, called 'Odeonkino'. If it is the Barco Thor than that is pretty underwhelming...
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post #663 of 858 Old 06-25-2019, 01:59 PM
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Never mind my previous post... the Barco Thor is ofcourse Barco Residential's flagship... The commercial Barco flagship would be the DP4K-60L, but I really doubt Odeon is uses them for the small screens... 60,000 ANSI lumen sounds useful for the 15x25m IMAX screen, but not for the smaller venues where the screens are more like 5x12m
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post #664 of 858 Old 06-26-2019, 08:18 AM
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All the (external) RGB laser light source Barco DCI's are refered to as Flagship Projectors, not just the 60K one. The commercial series 3 is also available as HC, the DP4K-30L-HC is the commercial equivalent of the Thor (Thor sees a further output drop, so with the move from 24K lumens to 30, the equivalent should be the 40K). Barco has been making the current IMAX LASER platform for years, the contract was just renewed to see Barco make the new IMAX LASER platform. But these are said to use IMAX owned IP.
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post #665 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 02:30 PM
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I just received the approval from Christie to reveal the name of this ultimate projector...

Ladies and gentlemen say hello to the:


CHRISTIE ECLIPSE





So what do you think of the name?


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 07-23-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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post #666 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I just received the approval from Christie to reveal the name of this ultimate projector...

Ladies and gentlemen say hello to the


CHRISTIE ECLIPSE


So what do you think of the name?

Well, I liked it, very appropriate and also descriptive of its capabilities.

Art
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post #667 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I just received the approval from Christie to reveal the name of this ultimate projector...

Ladies and gentlemen say hello to the


CHRISTIE ECLIPSE


So what do you think of the name?

Nice. A bit more distinguished than "crusher" "stomper" or "slayer"
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post #668 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I just received the approval from Christie to reveal the name of this ultimate projector...

Ladies and gentlemen say hello to the


CHRISTIE ECLIPSE


So what do you think of the name?


*JUST* the name?! How you tease.....
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post #669 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
CHRISTIE ECLIPSE
Interestingly the Eclipse marketing name was "out there" last year for the DV units:
https://www.cinematech.today/index.p...on-perfection/
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post #670 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 08:19 PM
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I like it. Very cool name!

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post #671 of 858 Old 07-22-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Interestingly the Eclipse marketing name was "out there" last year for the DV units:
https://www.cinematech.today/index.p...on-perfection/
That IS interesting.

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post #672 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I just received the approval from Christie to reveal the name of this ultimate projector...

Ladies and gentlemen say hello to the


CHRISTIE ECLIPSE


So what do you think of the name?

Unusual choice for a very high lumen projector - is an 'Eclipse' not when a planet blocks the light from a star causing an absence of light?

Edit: Maybe its referring to the black floor lol
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post #673 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Unusual choice for a very high lumen projector - is an 'Eclipse' not when a planet blocks the light from a star causing an absence of light?

Edit: Maybe its referring to the black floor lol
I guess it is quite appropriate given the principle of operation is dual modulation, selectively blocking the light source.
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post #674 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Interestingly the Eclipse marketing name was "out there" last year for the DV units:
https://www.cinematech.today/index.p...on-perfection/
Interesting. Is the picture on the bottom of the article an Eclipse? And are those banks of laser modules?
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post #675 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Edit: Maybe its referring to the black floor lol
Correct !

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post #676 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 08:48 AM
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Hayden Planetarium and Christie Lead the Way to HDR Domed Solutions

From DISPLAY DAILY:
https://www.displaydaily.com/article...omed-solutions

The New York-based American Museum of Natural History, where the famous Hayden Planetarium is housed, held a press event on July 17 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 Moon Landing, along with the 150th anniversary of the founding of the museum. If you have never been there, you need to if in New York. It is one of the best museums and planetariums on the planet.

During the event we learned about the moon rocks and meteorites on exhibit and then traveled to the Hayden Planetarium for a special presentation on the moon landing. The presentation pulled together 3D photogrammetry of the moon’s surface with laser altimeter data to create a very detailed textured rendering of the moon. Overlaid on this was the orbit flight path of Apollo 11 along with the descent path of the landing module. During the decent, warnings of computer failures and rapidly declining fuel levels punctuated the actual astronaut narrative that was played in the simulation. This showed how Armstrong disabled the computer-controlled navigation system as they were headed for an area with large boulders and he manually guided the space craft to a safe landing. For the first time, we were able to see a simulation of a God’s eye view of the landing which showed the irregular flight path the capsule followed in Armstrong’s quest to find a safe place to land. Personally, I might have preferred an out-the-window simulated view, which I was told was possible as they have full models of the landing module as well. Maybe next time.

But the big news for me was the unveiling of a new planetarium projection solution that has been five years in the making. This collaborative effort started with the team from the Hayden in 2014 when Christie was in the early stages of development of a unique dual-modulated projection system based on Christie patented technology developed specifically for the non-DCI cinema market. Planetarium Sr. Director Benjy Bernhardt and Chief Video Engineer, Jeff Galitzer saw a demo of this and were awed by the black levels possible with a projection system – something they had never seen before. As a result, a project was started with Larry Paul, executive director of technology & custom solutions at Christie Digital.

In a lengthy conversation I had with all three after the presentation, Paul said that one of the Christie strengths is the ability to develop customized solutions to fit very specific market requirements. And, it was clear from his conversations with the Hayden Planetarium, that they wanted to create the most advanced solution in the industry and they had the knowledge (and budget) to carry out that mission. So, the collaboration began.

Paul was quick to point out however, that while there are some common needs and some technology can be used in any planetarium, theme park or simulation solution, the requirements of the Hayden Planetarium were demanding and required a solution that was beyond the capabilities of what was on the market from any manufacturer.

As a first step, the existing projectors were replaced with first generation RGB laser projectors in 2015, but these were big and did not yet meet the performance needs of the Planetarium. At the same time as the temporary projectors were being installed, new seating and a new audio system was also being introduced with a completely new screen skin. Considerations in the design of the screen are the size of the micro-perfs (trade-off between sound transmissivity and quality and possible moiré or artifacts with the image); elimination of speckle from the RGB lasers (surface flatness and texture); and gain (low gain is actually desired to eliminate light from one part of the dome illuminating another and reducing contrast).

The Hayden Planetarium and Christie worked with Spitz to design, manufacture and install the screen. A 0.38 gain screen design was chosen that improved the checkerboard contrast ratio from 3.5:1 in an older solution to an impressive 10:1 with an ANSI pattern. I know 10:1 does not sound very good, but in a domed environment where any light reduces contrast, that is actually quite good. With actual planetarium specific content, the system performance is far superior to other dome environments.

The new 4K resolution projector is called the Christie Eclipse and it will be commercially launched later this year but the first six of them have been installed in the Hayden Planetarium already.

The projector itself is a 6-DMD optical design with the first stage acting as a pre-modulator. This takes the standard 3-chip DLP optical block sequential contrast from around 2000:1 to over 20M:1 (in a black room on a flat screen)

This makes it the first High Dynamic Range (HDR) planetarium solution that we know of.



The projection head is now much smaller than the temporary solution and has the RGB laser source located from 6-15 meters away and fiber-optically coupled. Light output from the Christie Eclipse is capable of up to an impressive 30K lumens, but the system is toned way down for this application. When installed in the dome with the new screen, peak luminance is only 0.75 FtL (2.5 m²). Such numbers can be deceiving in a domed environment. I can attest that when dark adapted with the image of the moon display on the dome, it is plenty bright, but not too bright.

One of the big challenges was to be able to control the very darkest tones – i.e. those few dozen code values above black. Normal projectors crush the black, meaning those code values can’t be distinguished and black is dark gray. The new Eclipse projector solved this issue with the dual modulation optical design and careful control of the EOTF. Interestingly, Galitzer and Bernhardt told me that the PQ curve can’t be used as there is too much separation between code values in the very low end of the curve. As a result, they continue to experiment with different gamma curves to seek out the best low light level performance.

One other design requirement was the elimination of masks or optical blending plates that are usually used to merge the images of projectors where they overlap. Such physical plates block light allowing for the darkest levels in the blend zone. These blend zone essentially sets the black level floor. Again, the double-modulated HDR Eclipse projector solves this problem allowing digital blending without the plates.

The projectors also include internal blending and warping. This was a smart system design solution allowing various pieces of content to be only parsed into 6 port views and sent to the projectors so that content does not have to be pre-warped.

Hemispherical content can now be created to play on the new HDR-capable system. Not only can such new content take advantage of a deep black levels that should now come very close to mimicking the actual night sky in a very dark part of the globe (the design objective), but with RGB laser sources, it will also be close to a BT.2020 color gamut. I have no idea if quasars or other objects have such colors, but the capability now exists.

The Planetarium is now being used to produce such next-generation content as desktop monitors are inadequate for seeing the dark details. What they are discovering is that the new projection system is revealing flaws in the content that were never seen before (masking errors, elevated black areas, noise, etc.) This is exactly the same thing that is happening in LED cinema post production houses where deep black levels can now be discerned.

Content for the system is being developed in an 8Kx8K 10-bit format. This is parsed into 6 segments that reside on dedicated servers for each projector, with fiber delivery to the projector head. Six AJA Key-pro Ultra playback devices is also connected to each projector as a backup. Content is typically formatted as uncompressed EXR files or ProRes HQ 422. Playback will be at 60 frames per second, but the projectors can be upgraded to play at 120 fps later, if needed.

Unfortunately, the Apollo demonstration and a test video I saw after the presentation don’t showcase the full potential of this new projection solution. Their test clip was mastered for an SDR display solution, but the black levels were quite dark nonetheless.

The real test will come when a new HDR production is ready in the January 2020 time frame. This will take advantage of the full dynamic range of the system and should blow away audiences. Such high contrast images are also likely to look much more “3D like” which may give the impression of a volume of images filling the dome above you. I can’t wait to see that.




Last edited by ARROW-AV; 07-23-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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post #677 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 09:02 AM
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Some more information regarding the CHRISTIE ECLIPSE:

• Shipping 1st Quarter 2020.

• Initially THREE versions will be available, being: 8000 lumens, 15000 lumens, and 30000 lumens.

• Laser modules will be contained within a separate rack with dimensions W78cm x D80cm x H69cm.

• The laser module rack is liquid cooled, completely silent operation, and comes with 8m or 10m length fibre that connects to the projector head, which can be extended up to 50m long.

• There is an external chiller; this is not silent and can be situated up to 30m away.

• It is Class 1 Risk Group 3.

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post #679 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 11:37 AM
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• Laser modules will be contained within a separate rack with dimensions W78cm x D80cm x H69cm.

• The laser module rack is liquid cooled, completely silent operation, and comes with 8m or 10m length fibre that connects to the projector head, which can be extended up to 50m long.
Awesome tech, amazing that they've got the laser rack to be silent. What's the projection head like for noise? I guess it doesn't have much that generates heat and it looks pretty large - have they managed to keep that silent also?
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post #680 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 12:26 PM
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Awesome tech, amazing that they've got the laser rack to be silent.
This is Christie's brand new next generation laser technology. The reason why Christie delayed the launch of the Eclipse is specifically such that they could incorporate it into the projector

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What's the projection head like for noise? I guess it doesn't have much that generates heat and it looks pretty large - have they managed to keep that silent also?
Nope. The head is noisy, so needs to be installed into a projection booth / room. It starts at about 64 dBA but rises from there at higher brightness and ambient temperature environments

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post #681 of 858 Old 07-23-2019, 06:20 PM
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Very interesting read @ARROW-AV . Been very curios about this projector ever since you and Art demoed it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I just received the approval from Christie to reveal the name of this ultimate projector...

Ladies and gentlemen say hello to the:


CHRISTIE ECLIPSE





So what do you think of the name?

That we knew it from other reports the week before;-). So, did you visit the Hayden planetarium?
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post #683 of 858 Old 07-28-2019, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Nigel,
Can you quote the size of the head portion of the projector for me? Is that the laser rack in the background?

Art
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post #684 of 858 Old 07-30-2019, 01:06 AM
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That we knew it from other reports the week before;-)
In the professional industry yes. This did not happen by accident. Christie specifically wanted to keep their primary target demographic happy so the NDA with respect to the name was lifted with respect to the professional industry a week prior to the home theater industry, which is why it was announced in the professional industry first

Also, not everyone reads the professional industry press releases Donald

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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
So, did you visit the Hayden planetarium?
Not yet, but when I am next in NYC I will most certainly check it out


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@ARROW-AV I know there must have been a press release, though it was not really released to the press, as it can't be traced anywhere. But there have been two or three outlets using prepared quotes/statement, so there must have been one. So, I did not read a press release, unfortunately. I did receive the daily email from Bob, linking to Chris' story though. Amazing how Christie thinks people won't find out till they sent out a release over one of the 'wires', months later, like who cares they advertise at Cannes with free projectors, when people are already looking to the next edition, or the TV markets;-).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Nigel,
Can you quote the size of the head portion of the projector for me? Is that the laser rack in the background?

Art
At the present time this information is protected under NDA so I can't publish it yet

I will publish the full details with respect to the projector head, laser rack, and chiller unit as soon as I am allowed to do so by Christie

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http://www.inparkmagazine.com/amnh-l...ie-projectors/



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post #688 of 858 Old 08-19-2019, 04:10 PM
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Headed to NYC tomorrow for work. I have two choices: go to the office and glad hand with new employees, or skip and head over to the Hayden Planetarium to see the Christie Eclipse in action on an 87 foot diameter dome. Hmm . If I make it, will report back


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post #689 of 858 Old 08-19-2019, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gwthacker View Post
Headed to NYC tomorrow for work. I have two choices: go to the office and glad hand with new employees, or skip and head over to the Hayden Planetarium to see the Christie Eclipse in action on an 87 foot diameter dome. Hmm . If I make it, will report back

This doesn't seem like any contest regarding the "correct" decision.

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post #690 of 858 Old 08-21-2019, 03:23 PM
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Well, I skipped work duties yesterday and raced over to the Hayden Planetarium. I mean raced. I literally had to run through the museum to get there and barely made the last showing of the day.

The good news: It’s an impressive Planetarium if you haven’t been there. You’re not supposed to take pics but I snagged a quick shot of the interior before the show.

The bad news: I don’t think they had the Christie Projectors running. They had several projectors around the domed facility and they were all typical looking projectors- not the Eclipse behemoths. And the picture wasn’t as crisp as typical 4K. Other Interesting thing is the impact of the dome on light scenes. The light would reflect back and diminish the contrast. I read that the screen is a 0.38 gain to minimize reflection.

Regardless it was still an enjoyable experience. Even if I was the creepy dude sitting by himself. I didn’t really listen to Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s narration about the universe- I was just enjoying the experience and reviewing the video.

I know next year they are supposed to have HDR films made specifically for the Planetarium and the Christie projectors. Next time in NY I may reach out to see if they are running them.






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