Christie Eclipse Projector - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Oh, my retail pricing guess is $145k depending on lens option.
I bet doubling your guess will still be short.
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post #122 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 11:16 AM
 
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. I do realise there are a lot of opinions on this matter though, as well as different types of applications where indeed ALR or hi-gain might have it´s mission (but always at the cost of absolute quality as far as I am concerned, but sometimes it´s a matter of choosing ones evil rather than the most optimal solution...)
There is little evil going on on the despeckling and lack of hot-spot capabilities (for a reasonable audience grouping) on the RealD Ultimate Screen, seeing it turn on and off, the immense effect on speckle is achieved with one or two actuators. It's whiter than a matte white screen "when on" makes it a perfect companion for this piece.
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post #123 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 11:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
From the description here, I would guess around 30k:1 native and almost 2k:1 ansi. At that light output I could the blacks being super inky
Having seen the proto in 2015 NAB, this sounds about right. But 3.5 years later they might have improved.
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post #124 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by F.Scaramanga View Post
There is little evil going on on the despeckling and lack of hot-spot capabilities (for a reasonable audience grouping) on the RealD Ultimate Screen, seeing it turn on and off, the immense effect on speckle is achieved with one or two actuators. It's whiter than a matte white screen "when on" makes it a perfect companion for this piece.
Where did you find information of using only 1-2 actuators? From what I read it uses numerous, but perhaps for smaller screens it would be sufficient with fewer? The despeckling functionality seems to be working wonderful on the RealD for sure, I am referring to the fact that a narrow half gain angle might cause issues in residential setups where the audience is seated - relative to the screen size - quite close and as such would experience uneven light distribution if not seated at appropriate angles. Correctly setup I am sure the RealD is quite the piece, albeit employing a positive gain screen when having 30k lumens to work with in combination with superior contrast makes little sense in MY book at least as I would want the screen to make as little impact on the presentation as possible...

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post #125 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I bet doubling your guess will still be short.
Barco Thor being 350K, this is certainly on that or even higher levels unless Christie has decided moving on a price aggressive route, but I highly doubt so...

Still, being an old CRT guy, a combination of ultimate contrast levels, superb colour reproduction (which CRT in most cases lacked that is...), with these kinds of light output levels was indeed the Holy Grail of old... If you take a loooong leap back in time, and forget that CRT´s outputted typically a couple of hundred lumens as opposed to thousand these days, digital projection has had this one limitation in comparison to CRT being that ultimate black level. I recently visited an arcade hall that had some of those excellent monitor grade arcade games going, and I all of a sudden came to remember the implication of those inky blacks. OLED certainly has those qualities too, but I still fancy the projected image. JVC´s are getting really close now though, so we´re getting close, but adding those crazy amount of lumens like this one do without impeding the blacks is really completely new territory for projection. Too bad it will probably take years before mere mortals will see any of this though, Christie should be accommodated for being innovative, but for the projection industry as a whole the fact that they now need to wait 15 years or so before being able to employ a similar tech, it´s not a good thing... Barcos light steering is another one, but it´ll be in the high end segment as well. Let´s hope @ARROW-AV can convince Christie making a - let´s say - 50-75K unit at 10k lumens or whatnot - would potentially open er whole new segment for them employing this tech! Going from there they might be tempted at trickling it further down the consumer highway...

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post #126 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 01:54 PM
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I’m curious to know the size of the head unit and rack component (if it’s rack mountable). No chiller is good.

Very cool but afraid the cost is going to be crazy.
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post #127 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I’m curious to know the size of the head unit and rack component (if it’s rack mountable). No chiller is good.

Very cool but afraid the cost is going to be crazy.
It’s going to be massive I imagine, looking by the size of it on Nigel’s post on the first page (and I bet that’s a 100mm+ lens):



No doubt it’s also going to be massively expensive, I’d wager it’s $400k+
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post #128 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:24 PM
 
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I’m curious to know the size of the head unit and rack component (if it’s rack mountable). No chiller is good.

Very cool but afraid the cost is going to be crazy.
The chiller is on the rack.
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post #129 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
It’s going to be massive I imagine, looking by the size of it on Nigel’s post on the first page (and I bet that’s a 100mm+ lens):



No doubt it’s also going to be massively expensive, I’d wager it’s $400k+
Someone correct me if I am wrong but, that seems to be a regular christie nonhigh contrast 4000 series image used for THAT article, the Dolby Unit is Stockier, about 8 inches higher to accommodate the additional electronics, the picture shown above looks like 22 inches tall, Art reported 30 for this babe.

I'm expecting it to be closer to this:

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post #130 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:44 PM
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CHRISTIE ECLIPSE HIGH CONTRAST 4K HDR RGB LASER PROJECTOR | REVIEW




SUMMARY:

Not only is this without a shadow of a doubt the best video projector in the world, this is quite literally the best video image performance that I have ever seen in my life to date. Period. End of story. Goodbye. The End.

It significantly outperforms not only all other projectors, but also all other video display devices that I can think of with respect to overall video performance, across all formats, from televisions (whether OLED, LED LCD, MicroLED or otherwise) to modular emissive video walls.

In my opinion, this is the new video reference gold standard against which all other video displays should now be compared. It is quite literally the ultimate video display and with it Christie has set a benchmark of near insurmountable Everest proportions.


MEASUREMENTS:

CONTRAST:

ON/OFF contrast and ANSI contrast by no means tell you the whole picture as far as contrast performance of video content is concerned. Why? Because neither ON/OFF nor ANSI are in fact directly applicable with respect to actual video content. ON/OFF contrast and ANSI contrast are the two extremes of the contrast range that relates to video content. The ON/OFF Contrast only gives you the black level on a completely black picture. Whilst this is useful with respect to obtaining and comparing what is best black level performance capability of the particular display device, this does not tell us what is the typical contrast and/or black level performance for the majority of actual video content. Similarly, the ANSI Contrast only gives you the black level at what is typically the extreme upper limit of video content brightness. Hence, typically over 99% of video content falls within these.

Consequently, in order to gain a proper understanding and to be able to properly assess and evaluate what is the comparative contrast and associated black levels performances regarding different display devices we really need to be taking measurements with respect to the contrast performance in-between the ON/OFF and ANSI contrast; namely the full range of ADL (Average Display Level) contrast.

Where ADL is defined as being the average on-screen brightness after gamma correction; and the ON/OFF contrast corresponds to an ADL of 0%, and the ANSI contrast corresponds to an ADL of 50%.


The following contrast measurements were taken at actual usage light output levels:


NATIVE ON/OFF CONTRAST = 21,150,500:1

1% ADL = 83,649:1

2% ADL = 44,545:1

3% ADL = 34,730:1

4% ADL = 19,461:1

5% ADL = 15,452:1

10% ADL = 8,228:1

20% ADL = 3,771:1

ANSI CONTRAST = 1,035:1





To put things in perspective as far as comparative contrast performance is concerned. I've had to make the CONTRAST axis logarithmic in order to be even able to fit the Christie Eclipse's crazy contrast performance onto the chart! And by the way, this is the DYNAMIC Contrast performance of the best performing SONY and JVC home theater projectors versus the NATIVE Contrast performance of the Christie Eclipse:






LUMINANCE:

● PEAK LIGHT OUTPUT = 30,000 LUMENS

● 5.365m / 17’ 7” WIDE 0.9 - 1.0 GAIN SCREEN , WITH CIRCA 16,500 LUMENS LIGHT OUTPUT:

- WHITE LEVEL = 440 NITS

- BLACK LEVEL = 0.00002 NITS


GAMUT COVERAGE:

● %AGE OF BT.2020 COLOR GAMUT = 92.2%

- Both the RED and BLUE are beyond BT.2020; with the GREEN falling slightly short:



INPUT LAG:

● LATENCY = 16 ms

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHOTOGRAPHS / SCREENSHOTS:
All of the photos have been taken using a professional photography calibrated flagship Nikon camera, in HDR, as unprocessed and unedited raw images, accurately capturing the actual projected image black level, with the white balance precisely matched to the projection screen. Hence, with respect to these aspects, in addition to the image sharpness and detail delineation, the photos are accurately representative of what the projected images look like in person.

However, despite using HDR photography, the magnitude of the luminance dynamic range of this projector is so incredibly large that it was impossible to capture the full extent of this; and also similarly the chroma (color) gamut coverage of the projector is very considerably wider, deeper, and greater than the capabilities of the camera. Hence, with respect to these aspects the photos are by no means even close to what the projector looks like in person in these regards; where the only way to see what are their actual respective performances is to view the projector in person.


(N.B. in order to view the images with the best accuracy this is best done via a calibrated video display)

*** If viewing this using your a mobile device you can simply zoom in with respect to the photos to see them in their full high resolution; or alternatively to view and/or grab the full size photos simply right click on whichever image and select VIEW IMAGE from the menu window. You can also then left click to zoom in and view the image in 1:1 ratio ***
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ANALYSIS & GENERAL PERFORMANCE SCORES (OUT OF 100):


● MASCIOLA HDR10 SINGLE PIXEL 4K RESOLUTION TEST PATTERN PERFORMANCE : 100

N.B. THE COUPLE OF SMALL SMEARS ARE DUE TO THIS BEING A PRE-PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE AND WILL NOT BE PRESENT WITH THE PRODUCTION UNITS




● QUICK BROWN FOX TEST PATTERN PERFORMANCE: 100








● NATIVE 4K SINGLE PIXEL GEOMETRY TEST PATTERN PERFORMANCE: 100








● BLACK PLUGE TEST PATTERN BLACK LEVEL PERFORMANCE: 100




● WHITE & BLACK GRID TEST PATTERN PERFORMANCE: 100




● INTERSTELLAR SDR HD-UPSCALED-TO-4K-UHD (00:53:30) PERFORMANCE: 100




● JOURNEY TO SPACE HDR 4K (00:35:50) PERFORMANCE: 100




● SHARPNESS & MTF: 100

You can quite literally see the native 4K pixel structure in absolute perfect razor sharpness throughout the entire image for all 8,847,360 pixels. The projected image quite literally cannot be any sharper!

● FOCUS UNIFORMITY: 100

● CHROMATIC ABERRATION: 100

● IMAGE UNIFORMITY: 100

● RGB PIXEL/PANEL ALIGNMENT: 98

● POSTERIZATION (BANDING): 100

● BLOOMING: 100

● STREAKING: 100

● VIDEO NOISE: 100

● MOTION PERFORMANCE: 100

● GAMING PERFORMANCE: 100

TOTAL SCORE = 100


MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION:

● Initially THREE versions will be available, being: 9,000 lumens; 17,500 lumens; and 26,000 lumens.

● Laser modules will be contained within a separate rack with dimensions W78cm x D80cm x H69cm.

● The laser module rack is liquid cooled, completely silent operation, and comes with 8m or 10m length fibre that connects to the projector head, which can be extended up to 50m long.

● There is an external chiller; this is not silent and can be situated up to 30m away.

● The projector head is big and noisy, so needs to be installed into a projection booth / room. It starts at about 64 dBA but rises from there at higher brightness and ambient temperature environments

● There is only a very small few percentage light loss post-calibration, because out-of-the-box the projector is already very close to D65 white point.

● Speckle is a non-issue. With unity gain screen there is absolutely no perceivable speckle whatsoever; hence, there is absolutely no need to any anti-speckle systems / solutions. The manifestation of speckle has been minimized as a consequence of utilizing multiple different wavelengths of laser diodes for each of the red, green, and blue, in conjunction with avoiding usage of a high gain projection screen material.

● Black levels are so black that there is absolutely no need whatsoever for any masking of black bars; and you literally cannot see where is the divide between the edge of the projected image where there is black and the outside of the projected image where there is no light being projected at all.

● The world-record-breaking projected contrast and black levels performance has been achieved via use of the same patented technology that features within the Dolby Cinema projectors; which is akin to the Full Array Local Dimming (FALD) that some LED LCD TVs utilize. Where, with respect to this projector, there numbers 2,073,600 dimming zones.

● Color depth: 12-bit

● Supports 4K60 with low latency.

● OPTIONAL UPGRADES (with associated one-off additional costs):

- CHRISTIE MIRAGE: adds both High Frame Rate (HFR) 4K120 support and either active or passive (your choice) 3D functionality, with 4K60 into each eye if active; with very high brightness and essentially zero cross-talk.

- CHRISTIE VIEW GAMING: In addition to supporting single player gaming at 4K120 (wherein it is worth noting that it has been confirmed by SONY that the upcoming Playstation 5 will support 4K120 gaming), via use of active glasses you can have 2 players see the whole screen at 4K60, but a completely different screen to everyone else, in other words it will be akin to each of the 2 players having their own full size Christie Eclipse gaming screen at 4K60.

● Multiple lens options covering a wide array of throw distances versus screen sizes

● 3-year warranty.

● It is Class 1 Risk Group 3.

● Shipping 2nd Quarter 2020.






https://www.christiedigital.com/en-us/business/products/projectors/3-chip-dlp/christie-eclipse










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post #131 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:50 PM
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Awesome, thank you!!

Hmmmm... Those halo artifacts in the NATIVE 4K SINGLE PIXEL GEOMETRY TEST PATTERN, I suppose they are in the source/test pattern?
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post #132 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:56 PM
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Awesome, thank you!!

Hmmmm... Those halo artifacts in the NATIVE 4K SINGLE PIXEL GEOMETRY TEST PATTERN, I suppose they are in the source/test pattern?
Yes that is exactly how is the source content. It is not adding anything nor creating video artifacts in any regard whatsoever


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post #133 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 02:57 PM
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Great! Now I just need to inherit a fortune.
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post #134 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 03:18 PM
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@ARROW-AV For SDR/BD performance, can it be dialed back to 48 - 100 nits? And if so are there any compromises doing that? Thanks.
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post #135 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 03:27 PM
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Turns out my native contract ratio joke wasn't that far off. Holy smokes
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post #136 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 03:35 PM
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So the ‘cheapest version’ is rated to 5000 lumens - similar to a Sony 5000. And chance they will try and compete price wise there? Love that you can buy more modules as needed and no chiller.

Are the modules in a rack mountable chassis?

Awesome review!
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post #137 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 03:45 PM
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Simply outstanding. This is not just game changing, but this is game-set match for those who can afford it. Thanks to Arrow and Art as well.
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post #138 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Simply outstanding. This is not just game changing, but this is game-set match for those who can afford it. Thanks to Arrow and Art as well.

I told them if they showed this at CEDIA it would be a bad day for everyone else.


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post #139 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
So the ‘cheapest version’ is rated to 5000 lumens - similar to a Sony 5000. And chance they will try and compete price wise there? Love that you can buy more modules as needed and no chiller.

Are the modules in a rack mountable chassis?

Awesome review!
Yes

Also, worth noting that the 5000 lumens regarding the SONY 5000ES is gross peak uncalibrated light output. Calibrated it's quite a bit lower than that, circa 4000 lumens; whereas with Christie it's actually calibrated useable light output. So circa 20% higher light output as compared with the SONY.

Pricewise I can't discuss specifics at the present time; however what I can divulge is that, all things considered, not unexpectedly, all versions, including the 5000 lumens entry level, will be costing six figures.

Think of this as the supercar of cinema projectors


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post #140 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 04:23 PM
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Yes

Also, worth noting that the 5000 lumens regarding the SONY 5000ES is gross peak uncalibrated light output. Calibrated it's quite a bit lower than that, circa 4000 lumens; whereas with Christie it's actually calibrated useable light output. So circa 20% higher light output as compared with the SONY

Just to be clear, so the 5000 llumen version will compete with the Sony? Or the laser modules are in a rack mountable chassis? Or both!

Thanks for the awesome review again!
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post #141 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 04:34 PM
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Hi everyone, just to let you know I am in process of flying back to London England via Chicago so I will be in the air... I will answer everyone's questions ASAP (and Lon I haven't forgotten about you )

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post #142 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to be clear, so the 5000 llumen version will compete with the Sony? Or the laser modules are in a rack mountable chassis? Or both!

Thanks for the awesome review again!


No not competing with the Sony a different league frankly. Requires rack mount anyway irrespective of modules due to head design.








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post #143 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone, just to let you know I am in process of flying back to London England via Chicago so I will be in the air... I will answer everyone's questions ASAP (and Lon I haven't forgotten about you )


Safe trip young man !


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post #144 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 04:40 PM
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Just to be clear, so the 5000 llumen version will compete with the Sony? Or the laser modules are in a rack mountable chassis? Or both!

Thanks for the awesome review again!
No, this will not compete with the SONY 5000. This sits in a higher category with respect to both video performance and price. In short, this significantly outperforms the SONY 5000; and accordingly it's more expensive.
.
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post #145 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 05:26 PM
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Thanks Art and Arrow - this machine may encourage me to conduct major surgery in my lobby for a install. For my 14 foot wide Unity Screen 10,0000 lumen may be enough. Now I need the dimensions of this beast. Not sure if it is using single or 3 phase power. Could be a great 2019 Xmas Gift installed and delivered to myself.
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post #146 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 05:48 PM
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Smokin’ bacon; actual ‘OLED’ levels of contrast, modular and generally completely kick ass insane on all other parameters; time to start savin’!! Thx for the very nice review! Only thing I might not agree 100% on is that masking is not needed. Even with perfect blacks, as light from the projected part of the screen will lit up the room and hence the unmasked portion of the screen (in different degrees depending on what is being projected that is), masking would normally at least probably come in handy in my opinion and not something I would have personally saved on if I had six figures invested in the projector...


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post #147 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 06:17 PM
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Wow. I want! When is it available?

Is the input module upgradable for things like HDMI 2.1 or new video standards?
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post #148 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 06:52 PM
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Is there a preorder list?






Just kidding. This is lottery winning stuff to me.

See ya. Dave

"High Fidelity audio has been like a dog chasing his tail. High Fidelity in my marriage has been much more rewarding because she knows where I sleep."
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post #149 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 07:05 PM
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Amazing projector, amazing pictures.

So Christie cut the output per module in half from the standard 5000/4500(depending on configuration), but kept the rest of the laser system; modules, rack, control. Cutting the maximum output from 60K Lumens to 30K lumens, while keeping the same size module housing and rack space, must help in keeping the cooling requirement below the dedicated externa chiller trigger level.

The ANSI is a bit disappointing considering the incredibly high on-off. But still better than (or at least as good as) the best DLP projectors designed for High ANSI contrast.

The green color at the top of the 1250, 1300, 1350 is why you rate the ● RGB PIXEL/PANEL ALIGNMENT: 98 percent?

I guess pricing will also depend on who you are, Evans & Sutherland, Spitz, RSA Cosmos, or any other planetarium vendor will get a better price than a rich guy wanting the best projector money can buy.

Will this be at ISE?
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post #150 of 1177 Old 10-27-2018, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Smokin’ bacon; actual ‘OLED’ levels of contrast, modular and generally completely kick ass insane on all other parameters; time to start savin’!! Thx for the very nice review! Only thing I might not agree 100% on is that masking is not needed. Even with perfect blacks, as light from the projected part of the screen will lit up the room and hence the unmasked portion of the screen (in different degrees depending on what is being projected that is), masking would normally at least probably come in handy in my opinion and not something I would have personally saved on if I had six figures invested in the projector...
Jon, you don't need masking. And this is not something I would say unless absolutely true.

Firstly bear in mind this was in fact just irrefutably proven... because this installation did not have masking and furthermore the screen had no frame. But not once could you see the black bars nor the divide between the edge of the projected image where there is black and the outside of the projected image where there is no light being projected at all. And that was despite there being a semi-shiny floor surface.

Also bear in mind that the guy who is saying this upholsters complete rooms in the least light reflective black velvet and covers all LEDs with neoprene...

Reddig and Lygren like this.

Last edited by ARROW-AV; 12-21-2018 at 11:27 AM.
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