Christie Eclipse Projector - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 1733 Old 05-16-2020, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CP850-CLED View Post
Oi Nigel, you are killing me here! We get it we get it the Eclipse is great, no need to rub it in. However, if I want to look out the window whilst movie watching to gaze at the topless babes partying at the marina next door, the Eclipse does not allow for that. You must admit if your ht room can do that, it's a cool thing.

Attending shows for videowalls is the first vetting step, how the specs end up in the sendbox are videophile concepts easy to understand, the visual science of how the chain from the setop box to the display itself is some serious science alien to all videophiles, ie. creating additional f-stops at the lowest IREs is a challenge for ASIC development. Samsung has failed in that regard by pursuing the specmanship that you suggest. So let's back off talking about things we fully don't understand yet.

Please stop suggesting that the image quality of LED video walls has to be measured by the SUPREME standards set by the Eclipse. They are completely different animals, once you bring your own content into the top manufacturers to fully understand you are still left with new questions. It's exciting like boobs..

EDIT I see you had telepathically agreed with the suggestion and posted while I was typing.

Spoiler!
Good to see that we agree then. Different products for different applications / environments

The pertinant question is who will become the King of Kudos by installing both a Christie Eclipse into their Home Theater and a Video Wall into their brightly lit living room or entertainment space

By the way, my experience with Video Walls is not restricted to only trade shows, but also at the respective manufacturer's head quarters / factories wherein I am informed that the Video Walls have been installed and setup optimally.

I'm looking forward to seeing them evolve and continue to improve; and I applaud the early adopters for getting some of these out into the field
.

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post #1592 of 1733 Old 05-16-2020, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
Yes agree to this but I like toadd that also senseless talking with nothing inside is just something to keep here people busy to read is annoying. As some may have the half day time at this forum well its fine when the posts have some substantial inside but often I got the feeling that nothing is inside just a lot of bla bla to keep people busy. Than this is hard to read for those that like to get REAL INFORMATION that counts and not over and over the same story again and off topic like red wine talking and so on.
So hope to read some new information’s soon here as after my Samsung LED Wall demo that was not so good this Eclipse can be a option for me.
Should have an update for you soon regarding when the first Christie Eclipse production unit will be going out into the field, as well as when the next demo opportunity will be

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post #1593 of 1733 Old 05-16-2020, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
Yes agree to this but I like toadd that also senseless talking with nothing inside is just something to keep here people busy to read is annoying. As some may have the half day time at this forum well its fine when the posts have some substantial inside but often I got the feeling that nothing is inside just a lot of bla bla to keep people busy. Than this is hard to read for those that like to get REAL INFORMATION that counts and not over and over the same story again and off topic like red wine talking and so on.
So hope to read some new information’s soon here as after my Samsung LED Wall demo that was not so good this Eclipse can be a option for me.
Great to hear that you might be considering the Eclipse for your theater and I agree the thread needs to be about this device and what we know. You have always been the guy on the forefront of technology in projection after seeing two demos of this thing I think you will be pleased at what it can do. For the past twenty years you and I have seen just about everything and pretty much without exception we had to accept one or more compromises to achieve a bump in some other parameter. As far as the image this might be the exception.

I probably won't be able to get back to Deutschland to see it if you get one of the first units but all the best if you do.

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post #1594 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
There's another aspect of Video Walls that I know you are going to especially love James. As of right now, none of the residential/consumer video walls support 24p. They are all 60p. Meaning that any and all 24p content will need to be converted to 60p via a video processor using 3:2 pull down. And I know how much you LOVE viewing 3:2 pull down video content

Furthermore, they only support 10-bit color. And their gamut coverage is typcially only circa 140% RGB or almost 100% of DCI-P3.

That said there are some professional industry video walls products that are showing promise with respect to moving the technology forwards, such is those by the likes of SiliconCore and LG, which push beyond the aforementioned performance. So hopefully this will trickle down (or morelike across) to the consumer video wall products
.

Commercial walls have been advertised as 24 Bit for years. A tad misleading as they are only 16 bit PLUS 8 Bit PWM. 10 bit video can be remapped to 16 bit of the displays to give greater control over the video's dynamics. Lang AG has (a) tool(s) for this it showed in its demo suites at ISE a few years ago. I am sure that they can use/apply this to other walls.

As for gamut, most have struggled to reach Rec. 709. Ask a Chinese LED seller/engineer about P3 and you get the answer we have P3.0 no problem, and they point to a coarse demo unit;-). So that they do P3 is amazing. Some of the brands you mention are working on doing even better than that.

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post #1595 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Since this really got off track with heat production, I was curious about the Christie set up. The chiller looks like a portable A/C unit. Does it have to be a certain distance from the head unit? How big is the head unit? Back in the CRT days, people had hush boxes that were vented into attics, outside or other places. Unless the pj room was isolated in the middle of a house, it seems like it would be trivial to vent the exhaust air outside.
It is a monoblock air/water AC, or 'chiller'. Not sure if it is cold water or water/alchol/glycol that gets pumped through the projector.

There are very large insulated boxes for commercial projectors, i am sure some of these vendors would love to do a (larger) custom box for the Eclipse. So no need to go fullout to a commercial cinema in room booth that rides on a lift on the back wall.

As for the isolated by the full house scenario. One would start to think of a water/water version of the chiller. Feeding a fancoil unit with hot water. Or simply a longer water circuit and placing the chiller on the outside wall, or even in a protective unit outside.

At this level, there is so much custom work that need and can be done.
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post #1596 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
No, I haven't seen a video wall like the Samsung before, other than here on this site with the one fellow who had one installed. I was referring to the, what I think were, micro Led panels out to the left as we walked out of the Eclipse demo room. I walked over to them and I didn't have to get very close to see the individual Led's (I'm assuming that's what they were) that comprised the picture on the several probable research setups.
Christie did launch mini-led version(s) of its LED Walls. It did not make a lasting impression, as I can't give an impression off the top of my head.

Nigel, large back structures, rear servicing, and heat dissipation is old skool. Trends have been towards front servicability (can still use complicated back structure), pre-assembled displays, wall mounting, and therefor front heat dissipation. Christie itself showed that new wall mounted range at ISE in 2019?.
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post #1597 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
It is a monoblock air/water AC, or 'chiller'. Not sure if it is cold water or water/alchol/glycol that gets pumped through the projector.
There's no Water/glycol or fluid connections to the projector - just to the laser rack, which itself can be any reasonable distance you want from the projector head as it's connected by optical-fibre.

The projector head is 100% air-cooled only.
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post #1598 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 12:34 PM
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post #1599 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggerPicture View Post
There's no Water/glycol or fluid connections to the projector - just to the laser rack, which itself can be any reasonable distance you want from the projector head as it's connected by optical-fibre.

The projector head is 100% air-cooled only.
Oops, I forgot this still uses external lightsources. Just newer ones than the off-the shelve ones shown in the pictures in this thread.

The Sony 815 does did chill the complete projector. With a factory supported and painted ittle Chinese industrial chiller.
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post #1600 of 1733 Old 05-17-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
As for gamut, most have struggled to reach Rec. 709. Ask a Chinese LED seller/engineer about P3 and you get the answer we have P3.0 no problem, and they point to a coarse demo unit;-). So that they do P3 is amazing. Some of the brands you mention are working on doing even better than that.
Some still don't even achieve 100% of DCI-P3. Both Samsung's The Wall and SONY's Crystal LED are specced at only 98% of DCI-P3.

Gamut coverage and color performance is an area where the Christie Eclipse has and will continue to have a significant advantage versus Video Walls, and for a long time.

You are not going to experience anything like the Reds and Greens that the Eclipse and other RGB laser projectors such as the Barco Thor produce with a Video Wall. Reds will be Salmon; and Greens will be Lime.

Some brands, such as SiliconCore, are working on improving this. However, there is still considerable work to be done.

Those who have seen the Christie Eclipse and/or a Barco Thor will know what I am talking about. Color performance is on a completely different level


N.B. Not bashing Video Walls here. Just stating the facts of the matter. As stated, different products for different applications and environments

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post #1601 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Some still don't even achieve 100% of DCI-P3. Both Samsung's The Wall and SONY's Crystal LED are specced at only 98% of DCI-P3.

Gamut coverage and color performance is an area where the Christie Eclipse has and will continue to have a significant advantage versus Video Walls, and for a long time.

You are not going to experience anything like the Reds and Greens that the Eclipse and other RGB laser projectors such as the Barco Thor produce with a Video Wall. Reds will be Salmon; and Greens will be Lime.

Some brands, such as SiliconCore, are working on improving this. However, there is still considerable work to be done.

Those who have seen the Christie Eclipse and/or a Barco Thor will know what I am talking about. Color performance is on a completely different level


N.B. Not bashing Video Walls here. Just stating the facts of the matter. As stated, different products for different applications and environments

.
Arrow just a question that might be out of topic, why would someone need more than 100% dci-p3 ?

do colors look better on a display that can do 90-100% bt2020 when calibrated with HDR movies.

most jvc's do 100% p3, from colors point of view only, shouldnt they look similar to the eclipse/barco thor with current 4k/hdr movies?
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post #1602 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 04:59 AM
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I am not Arrow but I am fairly sure that his answer will be the same, xenon cinema projectors were a pure p3 offering, replace one with the last generation 3 primary laser projector set to BT 2020 profile and the jump is dramatic, a new world of color on something like the planet earth 2. Then add HDR a la Eclipse and forget it.
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post #1603 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 08:09 AM
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Arrow just a question that might be out of topic, why would someone need more than 100% dci-p3 ?
It's not out of topic and it's actually an excellent question, because this particular matter is a very common cause for confusion, so I am glad you brought it up

The short answer is because all HDR video is mastered with respect to the BT.2020 color gamut not DCI-P3.

The only reason why DCI-P3 was brought into things is because it was too great an increase beyond REC.709 for consumer displays to achieve the full BT.2020 color gamut.

Hence the target of achieving 100% of the DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut was set as an intermediary milestone target for consumer displays.

There was also more than an element of marketing influence here as well, in that "100% of DCI-P3" sounds more impressive than "71% of BT.2020" doesn't it?

That said, the amount of content with color beyond 100% DCI-P3 will of course vary from title to title. Consumer movies have been and are graded with the DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut in mind. However color saturations do sometimes to extend beyond 100% of DCI-P3. Some won't exceed 100% of DCI-P3 within BT.2020, but others most certainly will. And we are now seeing more and more video content that makes decent usage of the wider color gamut.

IMO ideally all reference to DCI-P3 should be dispensed with and everything should reference BT.2020. This would eliminate the confusion surrounding this particular matter

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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
do colors look better on a display that can do 90-100% bt2020 when calibrated with HDR movies.
Yes. They most certainly do. The difference is by no mean slight; it's very considerable.

See the following charts which illustrate the differences between the REC.709, DCI-P3 and BT.2020 color gamuts coverage.

However, it should be noted that of course you cannot see the actual colors in these tables that will be produced with BT.2020 color, unless the diagram included BT.2020 color and is being displayed on a display that has 100% coverage of BT.2020, which is not the case here. Hence, it is the size of the triangles that you should take note of, not what the color actually looks like within the triangles:



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most jvc's do 100% p3, from colors point of view only, shouldnt they look similar to the eclipse/barco thor with current 4k/hdr movies?
Nope. And it's not even close. In particular Red and Green look very profoundly different as well as secondaries such as Magenta. Blue has the least perceivable difference, but with respect to the other colors the difference is like night and day.

When you experience this for the first time you will see color unlike anything you have seen before that is produced by a display.

You won't realize to what extent the Reds and Greens that you currently enjoy with a JVC or other display with similar gamut coverage are not actually Red or Green. DCI-P3 Red = Salmon and Green = Lime. With BT.2020 Red = RED and Green = GREEN.

It's difficult to explain. It's like trying to explain what snow or the sea looks like to someone who has never experienced them before. If or when you do you will see exactly what I am talking about.

Coupled with the Christie Eclipse' insane contrast and black levels the colors pop significantly more than even that which is experienced with an OLED TV. This is an area wherein the Eclipse actually outperforms OLED TVs.

The resultant image is quite literally a sight to behold. It's beautiful. It's utterly mesmerising. And unfortunately it's fiendishly addictive! Quite literally spoils you for anything else!

.

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post #1604 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 08:25 AM
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post #1605 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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@Art Sonneborn what was it you said again about the colors at the recent demo of the Christie Eclipse? Wasn't it something like the REDs in particular are unlike anything you have ever experienced before from a video display? Is that right?
.
Yes and that I wished the tomatoes in the basket at home looked as good as the ones in the demo !

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The short answer is because all HDR video is mastered with respect to the BT.2020 color gamut not DCI-P3.

The only reason why DCI-P3 has ever been brought into things is because it was too great an increase beyond REC.709 for consumer displays to achieve the full BT.2020 color gamut.

Hence the target of achieving 100% of the DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut was set as an intermediary milestone target for consumer displays.
I don't know if this is related but just recently I have noticed (via my Vertex 2 device) that more and more UHD BR's are being mastered in BT2020 instead of the typical DCI-P3 that is usually indicated.

What has changed, if anything?

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Yes and that I wished the tomatoes in the basket at home looked as good as the ones in the demo !

Art
Surely if the tomatoes in the demo look redder than actual physical tomatoes, then it isn't actually that accurate....

I know, I know.... the only way to tell would be to see the actual tomatoes in the demo in person as they were being filmed....
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post #1608 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Surely if the tomatoes in the demo look redder than actual physical tomatoes, then it isn't actually that accurate....

I know, I know.... the only way to tell would be to see the actual tomatoes in the demo in person as they were being filmed....
I honestly just looked upon it as the capability was there to project color better than anything I'd seen thus the Eclipse simply isn't going to be the limiting factor. I have only rec 709 tomatoes

Art
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post #1609 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 09:24 AM
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I don't know if this is related but just recently I have noticed (via my Vertex 2 device) that more and more UHD BR's are being mastered in BT2020 instead of the typical DCI-P3 that is usually indicated.

What has changed, if anything?
Well, actually ALL consumer HDR video content is mastered using the BT.2020 color gamut. NO consumer HDR video content is mastered using the DCI-P3 color gamut.

DCI-P3 is not a consumer format. It's not actually compatable with the consumer video color matrix.

Because no consumer displays were capable of achieving the full BT.2020 color gamut with respect to HDR the set of DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut were established as optional color saturation targets for use in grading consumer HDR video content. That is all. It's still the BT.2020 color gamut.

So, what you are seeing there with your Vertex 2 devices is simply identification regarding which titles have been graded with respect to BT.2020 color gamut using the set of DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut as saturation targets, and which do not do so and have been graded with respect to BT.2020 in itself, ignoring the set of DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut entirely.

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Surely if the tomatoes in the demo look redder than actual physical tomatoes, then it isn't actually that accurate....

I know, I know.... the only way to tell would be to see the actual tomatoes in the demo in person as they were being filmed....
I think he was joking, his point being that the Christie Eclipse's Reds look 'unreal', as in incredible

.
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post #1610 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 09:27 AM
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I honestly just looked upon it as the capability was there to project color better than anything I'd seen thus the Eclipse simply isn't going to be the limiting factor. I have only rec 709 tomatoes

Art
Art,

After you have had your Christie Eclipse installed into your home theater you should totally change your AVSForum signature to state:

"I have BT.2020 tomatoes"

🤣 🤣 🤣

.
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I think he was joking, his point being that the Christie Eclipse's Reds look 'unreal', as in incredible
Yes, I got that.
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post #1612 of 1733 Old 05-18-2020, 05:33 PM
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The Sony 815 does did chill the complete projector. With a factory supported and painted ittle Chinese industrial chiller.
815 chiller only chills the lasers copper jackets. The rest of the projector including light engine is still normal air cooled, identical to 515.
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post #1613 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 08:42 AM
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Well, actually ALL consumer HDR video content is mastered using the BT.2020 color gamut. NO consumer HDR video content is mastered using the DCI-P3 color gamut.

DCI-P3 is not a consumer format. It's not actually compatable with the consumer video color matrix.

Because no consumer displays were capable of achieving the full BT.2020 color gamut with respect to HDR the set of DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut were established as optional color saturation targets for use in grading consumer HDR video content. That is all. It's still the BT.2020 color gamut.

So, what you are seeing there with your Vertex 2 devices is simply identification regarding which titles have been graded with respect to BT.2020 color gamut using the set of DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut as saturation targets, and which do not do so and have been graded with respect to BT.2020 in itself, ignoring the set of DCI-P3 co-ordinates within the BT.2020 color gamut entirely.


I think he was joking, his point being that the Christie Eclipse's Reds look 'unreal', as in incredible

.
Wanted to clear this up a bit as I think you are over simplifying it a bit and making it sound like the content is something that it is not.

First, ALL studio produced content on the market today is limited to P3 within 2020 in terms of gamut. There may be some slight overshoot, but it is EXTREMELY rare. The only exceptions I'm aware of is some specific scenes in animation.

As for metadata saying P3/DCi vs 2020, that has to do with what the display is. When movies are mastered there are quite a few options out there for displays used. Some use a 2020 gamut (as in the display is setup to 2020, but is still limited to P3 within that gamut like most displays we see at the consumer level). Some work ONLY in P3, and when the grade is done a color conversion is done to 2020. Some do what is called 2020 emulation, but still only meet P3. When you look at most of the gamut measurements of the mastering monitors in use today, most cannot achieve full P3. The Spears and Munsil UHD 4K Benchmark addresses this when you look at the montage. For the 4000 nit grade you will see that they allowed for multiple masters that are done with different displays that treat color in different ways (based on what I was talking about before) so that one could evaluate if they see any differences between the different approaches. Stacey was concerned that displays that are emulating or converting to 2020 may have math errors that skew color in the conversion compared to a native 2020 grading. When we discussed it last time he was at my house, I think we both said we could not detect any perceivable differences with the montage, but if one was to use a scope and look at raw x,y,Y numbers, you may have differences.

The truth of the matter is when you look at waveforms of most UHD content, the gamut actually rarely exceeds 709. That's because in real life most colors you see around you fall inside the 709 gamut. Once you exceed that you're mainly looking at artificial lighting (neon, LED, taillights) which are not lights you see a whole lot of in films. Some foliage/flowers exceed as well. Anything exceeding P3 is almost entirely man made/artificial lights and will likely be from a special effect/animation. The instances of natural photography would be extremely small (some flowers, like the tulips in Stacey's disc).

2020 was designed for headroom but ultimately just because our eyes could in fact see into that range of color doesn't actually mean it needs to (or ever really does). The VAST majority of color we see in films and real life is covered by 709, and P3 covers nearly everything that isn't. Having the additional headroom of the Eclipse will be a benefit because you know the gamuts the films are made in are completely covered in volume without much issue. It is rare that any consumer video display can say the same thing.
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post #1614 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 10:59 AM
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Wanted to clear this up a bit as I think you are over simplifying it a bit and making it sound like the content is something that it is not.

First, ALL studio produced content on the market today is limited to P3 within 2020 in terms of gamut. There may be some slight overshoot, but it is EXTREMELY rare. The only exceptions I'm aware of is some specific scenes in animation.

As for metadata saying P3/DCi vs 2020, that has to do with what the display is. When movies are mastered there are quite a few options out there for displays used. Some use a 2020 gamut (as in the display is setup to 2020, but is still limited to P3 within that gamut like most displays we see at the consumer level). Some work ONLY in P3, and when the grade is done a color conversion is done to 2020. Some do what is called 2020 emulation, but still only meet P3. When you look at most of the gamut measurements of the mastering monitors in use today, most cannot achieve full P3. The Spears and Munsil UHD 4K Benchmark addresses this when you look at the montage. For the 4000 nit grade you will see that they allowed for multiple masters that are done with different displays that treat color in different ways (based on what I was talking about before) so that one could evaluate if they see any differences between the different approaches. Stacey was concerned that displays that are emulating or converting to 2020 may have math errors that skew color in the conversion compared to a native 2020 grading. When we discussed it last time he was at my house, I think we both said we could not detect any perceivable differences with the montage, but if one was to use a scope and look at raw x,y,Y numbers, you may have differences.

The truth of the matter is when you look at waveforms of most UHD content, the gamut actually rarely exceeds 709. That's because in real life most colors you see around you fall inside the 709 gamut. Once you exceed that you're mainly looking at artificial lighting (neon, LED, taillights) which are not lights you see a whole lot of in films. Some foliage/flowers exceed as well. Anything exceeding P3 is almost entirely man made/artificial lights and will likely be from a special effect/animation. The instances of natural photography would be extremely small (some flowers, like the tulips in Stacey's disc).

2020 was designed for headroom but ultimately just because our eyes could in fact see into that range of color doesn't actually mean it needs to (or ever really does). The VAST majority of color we see in films and real life is covered by 709, and P3 covers nearly everything that isn't. Having the additional headroom of the Eclipse will be a benefit because you know the gamuts the films are made in are completely covered in volume without much issue. It is rare that any consumer video display can say the same thing.
Hi Kris,

We are actually on the same page here about almost everything.

It's exactly as I posted above, namely that the color gamut is BT.2020 and the DCI-P3 co-ordinates within BT.2020 are used as saturation targets when grading consumer content.

However, your post is implying that there is next to zero content that overshoots 100% of DCI-P3. This is not my understanding. We are in fact talking pretty large numbers so it is not in fact next to zero.

Furthermore, I was not really oversimplifying things, more trying to avoid confusing people, because this a quite a complex situation.

Wherein, the fact of the matter is that of course the saturation coverage in terms of gamut coverage in itself is by no means the only influencing factor that will be contributing towards the very considerably superior color performance of the Christie Eclipse as compared with other projectors and displays that are only capable of covering 100% of DCI-P3.

In addtion to this there are other influencing factors, including the signifcantly superior spectral response and color luminance performance.

Your post seems to imply that there is not be any noticeable difference in perceived color performance

.

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post #1615 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 11:13 AM
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Hi Kris,

We are actually on the same page here about almost everything.

It's exactly as I posted above, namely that the color gamut is BT.2020 and the DCI-P3 co-ordinates within BT.2020 are used as saturation targets when grading consumer content.

However, your post is implying that there is next to zero content that overshoots 100% of DCI-P3. This is not my understanding. Agreed that currently we are not talking huge numbers but do not think it is next to zero.

Furthermore, I was not really oversimplifying things, more trying to avoid confusing people, because this a quite a complex situation.

Wherein, the fact of the matter is that of course the saturation coverage in terms of gamut coverage in itself is by no means the only influencing factor that will be contributing towards the very considerably superior color performance of the Christie Eclipse as compared with other projectors and displays that are only capable of covering 100% of DCI-P3.

In addtion to this there are other influencing factors, including the signifcantly superior spectral response and color luminance performance.

Your post seems to imply that there is not be any noticeable difference in perceived color performance
I was certainly not trying to imply that there would be zero difference in color perception between an Eclipse and another projector, even if they both have the same gamut coverage. Even with 709 gamuts there would be differences based on the spectral accuracy of the Eclipse compared to the other display, the contrast potential of the two and the gamma. Two projectors that share the same gamut coverage will not look the same if there are differences in spectral accuracy, contrast and gamma tracking (luminance is a factor to, but you could luminance match to take that out of the equation).

As for content that overshoots P3, the only content I'm aware of may be The Matrix with some of its greens. I don't even know if that is intentional or not either. Inside Out had some blue areas that exceeded P3, but they were in a dark portion of the movie and were not bright/punchy color. If someone has some analysis work using pro tools that shows content outside of P3 in consumer content, I'd love to see it. Stacey Spears shared some footage he shot and Mammoth shot that had some content that exceeded P3, but it was REALLY scarce. Mainly in reds and some blues (some tulips, and rare green frog). I'll ask around to some of the mastering folks I'm in contact with and see what they say about consumer video targets for color mastering to see if they are starting to see leeway in exceeding P3 within 2020.
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I'm not sure if the very narrow primaries of the 3 primary laser projector are a positive or negative from a fidelity point of view. I'm sure the colouring will look striking (particularly if you find some content actually containing 2020 information), but with the very narrow wavelength you have increased issues of metamerism meaning a much higher likelihood that even on a well calibrated display you are no longer seeing what the director / DOP / grader thought.

I think someone mentioned that Planet Earth II has some significant amount of REC2020 colour.
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post #1617 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 01:04 PM
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I'm not sure if the very narrow primaries of the 3 primary laser projector are a positive or negative from a fidelity point of view. I'm sure the colouring will look striking (particularly if you find some content actually containing 2020 information), but with the very narrow wavelength you have increased issues of metamerism meaning a much higher likelihood that even on a well calibrated display you are no longer seeing what the director / DOP / grader thought.
Whilst this might be the case regarding some RGB laser projectors, this is by no means the case in any regard whatsoever with respect to the Christie Eclipse.

Laser diodes of multiple differing wavelengths are used for each of the Red, Green, and Blue primaries. So there is a diverse spread of wavelengths for each, not "very narrow"

Not only does this not produce the phenomenon to which you refer, but also it significantly reduces the potential for laser speckle; of which with respect to the Eclipse there is quite literally ZERO

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post #1618 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 01:48 PM
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Whilst this might be the case regarding some RGB laser projectors, this is by no means the case in any regard whatsoever with respect to the Christie Eclipse.

Laser diodes of multiple differing wavelengths are used for each of the Red, Green, and Blue primaries. So there is a diverse spread of wavelengths for each, not "very narrow"

Not only does this not produce the phenomenon to which you refer, but also it significantly reduces the potential for laser speckle; of which with respect to the Eclipse there is quite literally ZERO
Is there any more public information out there on the laser setup in these? Sounds like some interesting tech.
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post #1619 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 02:37 PM
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Is there any more public information out there on the laser setup in these? Sounds like some interesting tech.
Not that I am aware of. Christie likes to keep their cards close to their chest regarding certain aspects of the technical specifics.

The complete absence of laser speckle is in itself an advantage that most people would not realize even exists. With other RGB laser projectors this is can be a serious issue and requires countermeasures such as screen vibrators and the like to help resolve it

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post #1620 of 1733 Old 05-19-2020, 04:27 PM
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I'm not sure if the very narrow primaries of the 3 primary laser projector are a positive or negative from a fidelity point of view. I'm sure the colouring will look striking (particularly if you find some content actually containing 2020 information), but with the very narrow wavelength you have increased issues of metamerism meaning a much higher likelihood that even on a well calibrated display you are no longer seeing what the director / DOP / grader thought.

I think someone mentioned that Planet Earth II has some significant amount of REC2020 colour.
Another brand of RGB laser projector (which is about an order of magnitude cheaper) seems to have this exact problem. The colors looked awful even though the manufacturer claimed it was calibrated correctly.

I'd take a xenon or mercury projector over the poor image quality from some of the cheap blue phosphor and cheap RGB lasers out there.
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