Christie Large Venue Demonstration - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Arrow - please post dimensions and weight of the projector and the laser rack if available. Thanks.
At the present time that information is protected by NDA.

I will need to ask permission regards posting it on here.

Also, check your PM

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post #182 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
At the present time that information is protected by NDA.

I will need to ask permission regards posting it on here.

Also, check your PM

So if 5000 lumens is circa 6figures priceless, I assume the 30000 lumens will cost no less than 600k dollars, well definitely for rich people )))

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post #183 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Arrow - please post dimensions and weight of the projector and the laser rack if available. Thanks.
At the present time that information is protected by NDA.

I will need to ask permission regards posting it on here.

Also, check your PM [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

<img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
Saw your PM.
3D would be killer on this machine with such great light output.
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post #184 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:42 PM
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3D would be killer on this machine with such great light output.
Yes indeed. This produces absolutely incredible 3D performance that's for sure. Probably the best in the world to date

Methinks I will be rewatching Gravity in 3D again soon...

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post #185 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:48 PM
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And you may or may not have noticed that I have increased the screen size... it's now wall-to-wall with a 300mm / 12" wide black velvet frame

Why the huge frame? If you screw it to the wall it still has to be that beefy, just get a half a meter wider screen.

This implies you have taken away from your work in designing audio systems for emmissive displays, ways to not need large spaces next to the display just for speakers?

Or going the complete opposite way, large numbers of speakers behind a transmissive screen?
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post #186 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
So if 5000 lumens is circa 6figures priceless, I assume the 30000 lumens will cost no less than 600k dollars, well definitely for rich people )))

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Do we know 5000 likens will be north of $100K?
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post #187 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 12:55 PM
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The 12 module rack has been around for years, it's dimensions should be around on-line somewhere. These are the same as the DCi Laser series?

3D is on the Mirage version only?

@omarank Thanks for reminding us of Chris' article on the metameric error research. There has long been criticism of the 2020 primaries. These were put out there as an ambitional target,a goal always just beyond reach. Not to acccomodate for issues only encountered when these displays started to become reality.

@thebland , that's what Nigel posted, all configurations from the base 5000 lumens and up will be six figures.
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post #188 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 01:00 PM
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We can only assume it's the cheapest in the 6 figures )) it could be 199k lol, but to be honest the person who can afford this, won't really letter whether it's 100k or 199k he will be buying 30k lumens top model for sure
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Do we know 5000 likens will be north of $100K?
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post #189 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 01:07 PM
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Why the huge frame? If you screw it to the wall it still has to be that beefy, just get a half a meter wider screen.
Because: (1) The screen turns into a giant piece of artwork when the system is turned off; (2) there is 4-way masking; (3) There are pillars that house the WIDES and these would obscure the image if any wider; (4) Because I want to avoid light-wash down the side walls; and (5) Because it's going to look freakin' cool as hell

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This implies you have taken away from your work in designing audio systems for emmissive displays, ways to not need large spaces next to the display just for speakers?
Not at all. I have in fact already completed the design and have already built and tested the respective audio system. And I'm building a Media Room into which that audio system is going to be installed. The display will be a giant sized TV.

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Or going the complete opposite way, large numbers of speakers behind a transmissive screen?
In the Cinema the projection screen will be woven acoustically transparent material and the Front LCR plus Woofers will be positioned behind the screen, as per the design drawing that I posted previously ^^^^

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post #190 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 01:33 PM
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The main demo room was going to be the The Wall room, with the associated audiosystem, but this Christie becoming available changed all that? The audio system design for non-acoustically transparant displays moving to the other room, with let's say your favorite 100" TV?

Impressive rooms, that have undergone design updates, as opportunities arose since you first mentioned you started working on these rooms design.

Nigel do you know if it wll be demoed at ISE, on booth, or off?

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post #191 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
The main demo room was going to be the The Wall room, with the associated audiosystem, but this Christie becoming available changed all that? The audio system design for non-acoustically transparant displays moving to the other room, with let's say your favorite 100" TV?

Impressive rooms, that have undergone design updates, as opportunities arose since you first mentioned you started working on these rooms design.

Nigel do you know if it wll be demoed at ISE, on booth, or off?

Doesn't look like Nigel is the only one thinking about this projector. I think if anyone here had been to this demonstration they would have come away ,as I did, looking to this as the next move.


Art
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post #192 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 03:21 PM
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I think it purely depends on budget among all of us, I mean I don't think there are lots of people capable spending 500k on the projector that level, unfortunately but that's true. So far I think a few people on that forum would do this, and for sure I believe this is the best projector in the world, and if you can afford it, no question or any doubts should stop you )
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Doesn't look like Nigel is the only one thinking about this projector. I think if anyone here had been to this demonstration they would have come away ,as I did, looking to this as the next move.


Art
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post #193 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 03:24 PM
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The main demo room was going to be the The Wall room, with the associated audiosystem, but this Christie becoming available changed all that? The audio system design for non-acoustically transparant displays moving to the other room, with let's say your favorite 100" TV?

Impressive rooms, that have undergone design updates, as opportunities arose since you first mentioned you started working on these rooms design.
Nope. No changes

This Cinema was always and still is to feature projection. Nothing has changed.

Further to this, there is a separate, additional flagship Media Room, into which is being installed my audio system design for emissive video displays, along with probably a 100" SONY ZD9/Z9D. It was with respect to this room that I was considering Samsung's The Wall:




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Nigel do you know if it wll be demoed at ISE, on booth, or off?
Don't know yet. Either way, you will be more than welcome to come visit and see it here if you like Donald

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post #194 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 04:21 PM
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Doesn't look like Nigel is the only one thinking about this projector. I think if anyone here had been to this demonstration they would have come away ,as I did, looking to this as the next move.


Art


Sounds great, just let me know when I can drive up and take the double stacked 5000s off your hands!


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I think it purely depends on budget among all of us, I mean I don't think there are lots of people capable spending 500k on the projector that level, unfortunately but that's true. So far I think a few people on that forum would do this, and for sure I believe this is the best projector in the world, and if you can afford it, no question or any doubts should stop you )

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I was going to sell my home so I an afford this 500k projector! But then I realized that the tent I will have to live in won't fit more than a 20 inch tv!

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Likely, I will end up with an excellent 5000 (certainly no slouch and after seeing Art's, I was incredibly impressed!)... but it's fun to dream - which is why this particular forum can be a problem!
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Likely, I will end up with an excellent 5000 (certainly no slouch and after seeing Art's, I was incredibly impressed!)... but it's fun to dream - which is why this particular forum can be a problem!
just like any [email protected]@@

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post #198 of 664 Old 10-28-2018, 06:35 PM
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● Does not currently support consumer Dolby Vision.

Well, that's a deal breaker. Seriously, will it do so in the future or is it a licensing issue?
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post #199 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I think it purely depends on budget among all of us, I mean I don't think there are lots of people capable spending 500k on the projector that level, unfortunately but that's true. So far I think a few people on that forum would do this, and for sure I believe this is the best projector in the world, and if you can afford it, no question or any doubts should stop you )

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No , I get that my comment was more that this can do things that the emissive displays can't particularly in room design and I can easily see where this would be preferable at least in the relative near term.


No matter what this is a lot of money and laser modules are expensive.



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Do we know 5000 likens will be north of $100K?
Yes.
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post #201 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 09:10 AM
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When Dolby Cinema came to Indianapolis (AMC Castleton), I was hoping the experience would be better than my first. Flashback to 2015 The buzz around “The Force Awakens” had set me on a quest to find the best theater in the Midwest to see it. Having just become aware of Dolby Cinema, that was my first choice. A friend and I drove to the only location at that time (AMC Vernon Hills) for a test run, viewing Mockingjay Part 2. Unfortunately, the experience was destroyed by the red exit lights flooding the lower corners of the screen. I just could not understand how Dolby could let this happen. The Indianapolis location is what I refer to as Dolby Cinema v2, with no such distracting light issues.

The reason I preface my comments on the Christie with this? Well, when you experience a film at a Dolby Cinema v2, the system promo reel features a black-level split-screen comparison. This comparison is compelling enough, but then they take it a step further. The screen goes to full blackout, and after a few seconds for your eyes to adjust, a graphic appears that states “Yes, the projectors are still on”. This is the absolute black that Christie Digital delivers in Dolby Cinema, and what will shortly be available for the lucky few with the six-figure budget and the physical space.

In my home installation, I sit 6-1/2’ from my 65” LG OLED, which provides an optimum 40° field-of-view and 540 nits of calibrated output. What I saw at Christie on Friday equals that, but at 20 feet diagonal!

Since Nigel was there to do the heavy lifting of measurement, I was free to absorb and discuss with the Christie team. I think that Art and Nigel’s comments have covered all of the appropriate superlatives, so I’ll leave it with this. This projector represents the new benchmark against which all others will be judged.


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● Does not currently support consumer Dolby Vision.
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Well, that's a deal breaker. Seriously, will it do so in the future or is it a licensing issue?
I feel the need to clarify what I meant by this...

The projector does not currently support consumer Dolby Vision...

** HOWEVER ** it is most certainly technically possible for Christie to add this at some point in the future, and probably simply via a firmware update.

However, I must stress that at the present time Christie has not and is not yet commited to adding this.

But it is most certainly technically possible if Christie decides that it is something worth doing.

I did most certainly discuss this matter with Christie in person whilst visiting last Friday; wherein, I argued the case for adding this. Specifically, I pointed out, which I am sure folks will agree, that if Christie were indeed to add support for consumer Dolby Vision, then this would add an additional USP of a magnitude that would be very considerable indeed, especially considering that it would be the only projector in the world that would do so.

Now bearing in mind Christie's pre-existing and ongoing relationship with Dolby, I do not believe there would be any issue with respect to Christie persuading Dolby to allow this to be added to the projector; and so if I were a betting man, my money would be on it being this projector being the first (and possibly thereafter exclusively the only projector in the world) which does so.

Although, this is not something that would be offered for free, because indubitably Dolby would demand payment of an associated licensing fee, which for obvious reasons Christie would probably be obliged to pass on to the customer. In other words, IF (and this is merely a possibility at the present time - no promises!!!) this is added, indubitiably it would be offered as a further optional upgrade at additional cost.

The question I would like you ask you and everyone else here, is would you be prepared to pay extra for this?

Now before you answer this question, please consider the following:

Just how much of a perceivable difference is there typically really between consumer Dolby Vision content played back as Dolby Vision, as compared the HDR10 iteration played back using good tone-mapping and gamma profiling?

Also bear in mind that the luminance dynamic range of this thing is so humungously vast that there's no issues with respect to achieving calibration that produces concomitantly both all the shadow detail without being crushed and the bright highlights without being blown out to white. In other words, it is about as perfect playback of HDR10 as you can get.

Furthermore, HDR10 consumer media content that is mastered for BT.2020, as opposed to DCI-P3 within a BT.2020 packet, is going to produce a far greater perceivable increase in video performance, than HDR10 versus Dolby Vision, with respect to a projector such as this which is capable of covering such a far greater WCG than 100% of DCI-P3; wherein it not only covers over 92% of BT.2020 but the Red and the Blue are in fact beyond BT.2020.

And something else I would like to point out here is that the video performance of this projector is absolutely mind-blowing... Seriously, you will have never ever seen anything like it in your life. SDR HD-Upscaled-To-4K-UHD media content, such as regular Blu-Ray, projected through this thing looks better than any HDR video image that I have ever seen to date. Furthermore, native 4K HDR10 media content is in a completely different universe stratospherically above and beyond absolutely everything else out there with respect to its video performance. Where irrespective of whether the source is SDR or HDR10 the image looks absolutely incredible to the extent it is utterly mesmerizing and practicially beyond words to describe just how phenomenal is the video image... I commented to Art that the problem with this thing is you'd end up rewatching your entire movie collection all over again and some, just to re-experience them all again... it's that good!

Therefore, speaking as someone who has both personally experienced the performance of this thing, and someone who is actually going to be installing one of these into his cinema, personally, all things considered, this is by no means for me a 'deal breaker'. That said, don't get me wrong, it would be very nice indeed if this was added in the the future by Christie; and this would be a big USP that would indubitably help Christie with respect to selling greater numbers of the projector. But is it really a 'deal breaker'? Not really

So what does everyone think about this?


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post #203 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 09:33 AM
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I feel the need to clarify what I meant by this...

The projector does not currently support consumer Dolby Vision...

** HOWEVER ** it is most certainly technically possible for Christie to add this at some point in the future, and probably simply via a firmware update.

However, I must stress that at the present time Christie has not and is not yet commited to adding this.

However, it is most certainly technically possible if Christie decides that it is something worth doing.

I did most certainly discuss this matter with Christie in person whilst visiting last Friday; wherein, I argued the case for adding this. Specifically, I pointed out, which I am sure folks will agree, that if Christie were indeed to add support for consumer Dolby Vision, then this would add an addititional USP of a magnitude that would be very considerable indeed, especially considering that it would be the only projector in the world that would do so.

Now bearing in mind Christie's pre-existing and ongoing relationship with Dolby, I do not believe there would be any issue with respect to Christie persuading Dolby to allow this to be added to the projector; and so if I were a betting man, my money would be on it being this projector being the first (and possibly thereafter exclusively the only projector in the world) which does so.

Although, this is not something that would be offered for free, because indubitably Dolby would demand payment of an associated licensing fee, which for obvious reasons Christie would probably be obliged to pass on to the customers. In other words, IF (and this is merely a possibility at the present time - no promises!!!) this is added, indubitiably it would be offered as a further optional upgrade at additional cost.

The question I would like you ask you and everyone else here, is would you be prepared to pay extra for this?

Now before you answer this question, please consider the following:

Just how much of a perceivable difference is there typically really between consumer Dolby Vision content played back as Dolby Vision, as compared the HDR10 iteration played back using good tone-mapping and gamma profiling?

Also bear in mind that the luminance dynamic range of this thing is so humungously vast that there's no issues with respect to achieving calibration that produces concomitantly both all the shadow detail without being crushed and the bright highlights without being blown out to white. In other words, it is about as perfect playback of HDR10 as you can get.

Furthermore, HDR10 consumer media content that is mastered for BT.2020, as opposed to DCI-P3 within a BT.2020 packet, is going to produce a far greater perceivable increase in video performance, than HDR10 versus Dolby Vision, with respect to a projector such as this which is capable of covering such a far greater WCG than 100% of DCI-P3; wherein it not only covers over 92% of BT.2020 but the Red and the Blue are in fact beyond BT.2020.

And something else I would like to point out here is that the video performance of this projector is absolutely mind-blowing... Seriously, you will have never ever seen anything like it in your life. SDR HD-Upscaled-To-4K-UHD media content, such as regular Blu-Ray, projected through this thing looks better than any HDR video image that I have ever seen to date. Furthermore, native 4K HDR10 media content is in a completely different universe stratospherically above and beyond absolutely everything else out there with respect to its video performance. Where irrespective of where the source is SDR or HDR10 the image looks absolutely incredible to the extent it is mesmerizing and practicially beyond words to describe just how phenomenal is the video image... I commented to Art that the problem with this thing is you'd end up rewatching your entire movie collection all over again and some, just to re-experience them all again... it's that good!

Therefore, speaking as someone who has both personally experienced the performance of this thing, and someone who is actually going to be installing one of these into his cinema, personally, all things considered, this is by no means for me a 'deal breaker'. That said, don't get me wrong, it would be very nice indeed if this was added in the the future by Christie; and this would be a big USP that would indubitably help Christie with respect to selling greater numbers of the projector. But is it really a 'deal breaker'? Not really

So what does everyone think about this?

Seriously. Anyone with the big bucks to buy one of these projectors won't even flinch at paying extra for the Dolby Vision licensing fee. Right, Art?
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post #204 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 09:35 AM
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I feel the need to clarify what I meant by this...

The projector does not currently support consumer Dolby Vision...

** HOWEVER ** it is most certainly technically possible for Christie to add this at some point in the future, and probably simply via a firmware update.

However, I must stress that at the present time Christie has not and is not yet commited to adding this.

However, it is most certainly technically possible if Christie decides that it is something worth doing.

I did most certainly discuss this matter with Christie in person whilst visiting last Friday; wherein, I argued the case for adding this. Specifically, I pointed out, which I am sure folks will agree, that if Christie were indeed to add support for consumer Dolby Vision, then this would add an addititional USP of a magnitude that would be very considerable indeed, especially considering that it would be the only projector in the world that would do so.

Now bearing in mind Christie's pre-existing and ongoing relationship with Dolby, I do not believe there would be any issue with respect to Christie persuading Dolby to allow this to be added to the projector; and so if I were a betting man, my money would be on it being this projector being the first (and possibly thereafter exclusively the only projector in the world) which does so.

Although, this is not something that would be offered for free, because indubitably Dolby would demand payment of an associated licensing fee, which for obvious reasons Christie would probably be obliged to pass on to the customers. In other words, IF (and this is merely a possibility at the present time - no promises!!!) this is added, indubitiably it would be offered as a further optional upgrade at additional cost.

The question I would like you ask you and everyone else here, is would you be prepared to pay extra for this?

Now before you answer this question, please consider the following:

Just how much of a perceivable difference is there typically really between consumer Dolby Vision content played back as Dolby Vision, as compared the HDR10 iteration played back using good tone-mapping and gamma profiling?

Also bear in mind that the luminance dynamic range of this thing is so humungously vast that there's no issues with respect to achieving calibration that produces concomitantly both all the shadow detail without being crushed and the bright highlights without being blown out to white. In other words, it is about as perfect playback of HDR10 as you can get.

Furthermore, HDR10 consumer media content that is mastered for BT.2020, as opposed to DCI-P3 within a BT.2020 packet, is going to produce a far greater perceivable increase in video performance, than HDR10 versus Dolby Vision, with respect to a projector such as this which is capable of covering such a far greater WCG than 100% of DCI-P3; wherein it not only covers over 92% of BT.2020 but the Red and the Blue are in fact beyond BT.2020.

And something else I would like to point out here is that the video performance of this projector is absolutely mind-blowing... Seriously, you will have never ever seen anything like it in your life. SDR HD-Upscaled-To-4K-UHD media content, such as regular Blu-Ray, projected through this thing looks better than any HDR video image that I have ever seen to date. Furthermore, native 4K HDR10 media content is in a completely different universe stratospherically above and beyond absolutely everything else out there with respect to its video performance. Where irrespective of where the source is SDR or HDR10 the image looks absolutely incredible to the extent it is mesmerizing and practicially beyond words to describe just how phenomenal is the video image... I commented to Art that the problem with this thing is you'd end up rewatching your entire movie collection all over again and some, just to re-experience them all again... it's that good!

Therefore, speaking as someone who has both personally experienced the performance of this thing, and someone who is actually going to be installing one of these into his cinema, personally, all things considered, this is by no means for me a 'deal breaker'. That said, don't get me wrong, it would be very nice indeed if this was added in the the future by Christie; and this would be a big USP that would indubitably help Christie with respect to selling greater numbers of the projector. But is it really a 'deal breaker'? Not really

So what does everyone think about this?

Sounds spectacular and something I would love to see with my own eyes!
It will be an interesting few months with all these fantastic projectors being tested.

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post #205 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 09:40 AM
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When Dolby Cinema came to Indianapolis (AMC Castleton), I was hoping the experience would be better than my first. Flashback to 2015 The buzz around “The Force Awakens” had set me on a quest to find the best theater in the Midwest to see it. Having just become aware of Dolby Cinema, it was my first choice. A friend and I drove to the only location at that time (AMC Vernon Hills) for a test run, viewing Mockingjay Part 2. Unfortunately, the experience was destroyed by the red exit lights flanking the screen. I just could not understand how Dolby could let this happen. The AMC Indianapolis location is what I refer to as Dolby Cinema v2, with no such distracting light issues.

The reason I preface my comments on the Christie with this? Well, when you experience a film at a Dolby Cinema v2, the system promo reel features a black-level split-screen comparison. This comparison is compelling enough, but then they take it a step further. The screen goes to full blackout, and after a few seconds for your eyes to adjust, a graphic appears that states “Yes, the projectors are still on”. This is the absolute black that Christie Digital delivers in Dolby Cinema, and what will shortly be available for the lucky few with the six-figure budget and the physical space.

In my home installation, I sit 6-1/2’ from my 65” LG OLED, which provides an optimum 40° field-of-view and 540 nits of calibrated output. What I saw at Christie on Friday equals that, but at 20 feet diagonal!

Since Nigel was there to do the heavy lifting of measurement, I was free to absorb and discuss with the Christie team. I think that Art and Nigel’s comments have covered all of the appropriate superlatives, so I’ll leave it with this. This projector represents the new benckmark against which all others will be judged.

Ken Whitcomb
Excellent post Ken. I could not agree more

Thank you for coming on Friday. It was an absolute pleasure to meet you finally; and your feedback was and is invaluable

It was a great suggestion of yours to put on the Black Pluge test pattern, where that in itself was/is single-handedly irrefutably demonstrable of the the absolute contrast and black level performance capabilities of this projector, without even needing to take a single measurement. It just said it all really!

.
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post #206 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 09:45 AM
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Sounds spectacular and something I would love to see with my own eyes!
It will be an interesting few months with all these fantastic projectors being tested.
Don't worry, you will!

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post #207 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 11:21 AM
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The lack of Dolby Vision is a complete non-issue - the Lumagen Radiance Pro will have dynamic frame by frame tone mapping by the end of the year - and at that point any meta data based system for HDR, including Dolby Vision, will become completely redundant for anyone that owns one. I would expect anyone investing in a PJ of this sort of level would be getting a Radiance Pro by default.
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post #208 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 12:56 PM
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The lack of Dolby Vision is a complete non-issue - the Lumagen Radiance Pro will have dynamic frame by frame tone mapping by the end of the year - and at that point any meta data based system for HDR, including Dolby Vision, will become completely redundant for anyone that owns one. I would expect anyone investing in a PJ of this sort of level would be getting a Radiance Pro by default.
I luv my Radiance Pro with my Sony VW5000. But this projector is bright enough NOT to need the Radiance Pro's tone mapping IF it has Dolby Vision built in! The question will be whether given whatever sources one use the Radiance Pro's features gives it an advantage over this amazing dazzling Christie projector's features! Probably Nigel and Ken can comment on this question.

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post #209 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 01:10 PM
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I luv my Radiance Pro with my Sony VW5000. But this projector is bright enough NOT to need the Radiance Pro's tone mapping IF it has Dolby Vision built in! The question will be whether given whatever sources one use the Radiance Pro's features gives it an advantage over this amazing dazzling Christie projector's features! Probably Nigel and Ken can comment on this question.
Couple of things here Steve... Consumer HDR content is graded to 1,000 - 4,000 nits (varies from title to title how much information is above 1,000 nits). Therefore, even at 500 nits tone-mapping of HDR content is still required. A video display would need to be capable of 4,000 nits peak luminance within a 10% window of white 235 before tone-mapping is not needed. So we are not quite there with this projector; and so this will still very much need and benefit from good tone-mapping


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post #210 of 664 Old 10-29-2018, 03:18 PM
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Great write up Mr.Arrow et all.

Since this is for residential consumption, I hope Christie hire a good industrial designer to make this unit look slick, aesthetically. This current commercial look just won't cut it, even though it will be housed in it's own room!. I mean a $500k purchase had better look the part, I'd want to look at it and enjoy it's sleek lines, just as I would my favorite sports car.

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