Replacing McIntosh MX151. Deciding between MX160 and Lyngdorf MP50. Please help. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 47 Old 01-28-2019, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
...Heck, I even said when I installed my Trinnov and did a direct compare of 7.x.4 to what I had listened to previously (my RS20i) that with 11 speakers playing, I could hear ZERO differences (said so on my thread)...
Statement like this does make me wonder why I should go on discussing , and adds to the recommendation for "sibblings" of that Datasat RS20i, the ATI and Monoprice 9.1.6 SSP's. I applaud your honesty; just a simple note though, that in spite of your finding, (obviously) others do/may hear a difference.

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post #32 of 47 Old 01-29-2019, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
others do/may hear a difference.
If blind and perfectly level matched, I completely applaud them. If not, in my opinion, totally meaningless. I've tried doing blind testing with JUST 7 speakers playing. Incredibly difficult (and to my ears and others that participated, impossible) to hear differences that are more obvious with just 2. Try it sometime.
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post #33 of 47 Old 01-29-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
If blind and perfectly level matched, I completely applaud them. If not, in my opinion, totally meaningless. I've tried doing blind testing with JUST 7 speakers playing. Incredibly difficult (and to my ears and others that participated, impossible) to hear differences that are more obvious with just 2. Try it sometime.
Casablanca has a mode that allows instant switch between DA conversion methods, in my case the top card Xtreme and the cheaper card Premium. This is instant A-B switch that is a step beyond what you do (the few minutes of switching decreases value of your test - audio memory is a b*** LOL). The mere tonal difference hits one in the face like a ton of bricks. I heard the same bricks switching from Krell SSP to Casablanca. Now I know why you seem to have such difficulty with the concept that the DA conversion step has major influence on sound.

Enough bantering - I still think OP should give MX160 a try. If that is unsatisfactory, my preferred second choice would be that ATI ATP-16, and not necessarily the Monoprice. Basically, wait for more information such as release date and what's inside - DA conversion, power supply, and analog stage designs (things that matter to sound) might be different between Monoprice and ATI.

Regards, Can
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post #34 of 47 Old 01-29-2019, 06:07 AM
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Casablanca has a mode that allows instant switch between cards, in my case the top card Xtreme and the cheaper card Premium. Instant A-B switch that is a step beyond what you do (the few minutes of switching decreases value of your test - audio memory is a b*** LOL). The mere tonal difference hits one in the face like a ton of brick. Now I know why you seem to have such difficulty with the concept that the DA conversion step has major influence on sound.
"that is a step beyond what you do". Blatantly false. The switching was INSTANT. So please quit telling me how I conducted the tests when you have no idea. But even if you knew how the test was conducted, you would find fault.

So we all understand you are a Theta DAC lover and believe it to be so far superior to anything else that even with 16 channels playing on two different Dirac processors (e.g. Datasat vs Casablanca), your beloved Theta DACs will be clearly discernible, to at least you. Amazing!!

"Now I know why". Again, blatantly false!!
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post #35 of 47 Old 01-29-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
The mere tonal difference hits one in the face like a ton of bricks. I heard the same bricks switching from Krell SSP to Casablanca.

Were these blind tests?

If not, your assertions are totally meaningless.

Noah
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post #36 of 47 Old 01-29-2019, 01:40 PM
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Were these blind tests?

If not, your assertions are totally meaningless.
You are attributing that quote to the wrong person. It was Cannaga who made that quote. And I totally agree with you about the test needing to be blind. Next time, please attribute the quote to the correct person.
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post #37 of 47 Old 01-29-2019, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
You are attributing that quote to the wrong person. It was Cannaga who made that quote. And I totally agree with you about the test needing to be blind. Next time, please attribute the quote to the correct person.

So sorry.


Let me address my comment to the right person:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
The mere tonal difference hits one in the face like a ton of bricks. I heard the same bricks switching from Krell SSP to Casablanca.

Were these blind tests?

If not, your assertions are totally meaningless.

Noah
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post #38 of 47 Old 01-30-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Were these blind tests?
If not, your assertions are totally meaningless.
I'm almost afraid to answer - don't know why but @audioguy seems increasingly "excitable" with each post (please calm down, really) . Anyway, I did not risk blowing my $20k SSP by re-configuring the sound cards for nothing. Allow me to expand. The key to hearing differences, **to me**, is instantaneous switch. In the Theta you could and thus comparing DACS/sound cards with just a push on remote. Of the 3 kinds of shoot-outs that I have done over the last several years (amps, preamps, cartridges, vacuum tubes (numerous times), etc.):

1. Long term ownership - then first moment of switch. For example, I owned Krell for 10 years, first switch to Classe amp was the easiest time to tell difference.
2. Blind test with time in between. The way audioguy is doing it (you cannot switch two SSP's without a time lapse) - "totally meaningless." Kidding.
3. Blind test with instantaneous switch. Best.
Number 3, the instantaneous switch, allows one to hear much easier, first, if there is a difference. And second, repeating multiple times to key in on that difference. Frequently **for me**, the sound of LF/drums, and human voice. Number 2 is worst because audio memory is fleeting. The time in between switches makes it difficult to notice a difference and to learn how to key into it. When materials are complex and loud, you're more likely to get null result (NB audioguy), and you would be wrong. All IMHO. Don't ask about MATERIALS AND METHODS please.

Unless one is extremely naive (not you) or was born yesterday, the premise of better engineering, better components resulting in better sound is not new. Table radio ---> AV Receiver ---> Separates. If someone buys separates, why? The belief of better components, better dacs, etc., leading to better sound. Basic principle so I don't know why guys get so excited that DACS could sound different. There have been 200,000 posts on this topic of blind testing, wait 500,000, so last post on topic. Let's not digress this thread further.

Regards, Can
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Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 01-30-2019 at 10:32 AM.
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post #39 of 47 Old 01-30-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
@audioguy seems increasingly "excitable" with each post (please calm down, really) .
I do get excitable because you either can't read, chose not to read or continue to distort the truth and/or make ridiculous claims

Quote:
2. Blind test with time in between. The way audioguy is doing it (you cannot switch two SSP's without a time lapse) - "totally meaningless." Kidding.
If you are capable of doing so, please go re-read what I previously posted. My comparison/switching was instant (as in no delay) as in instant contrary to your inaccurate (again) highlighted statement above. What part of that do you not understand? In case you have difficulty of finding my previous statement, here it is for you:

Quote:
"that is a step beyond what you do". Blatantly false. The switching was INSTANT. So please quit telling me how I conducted the tests when you have no idea. But even if you knew how the test was conducted, you would find fault.
If you care to learn how I did the instant compare, I will let you do the research. But please do not state what I did or did not do since you were not here ... hence, you are uninformed ........ on this matter.
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post #40 of 47 Old 01-30-2019, 11:17 AM
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post #41 of 47 Old 02-04-2019, 04:59 PM
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I am considering the same - would ideally love an MX160 replacement that has HDMI 2.1 support but I don’t see any evidence that is on the horizon. If that isn’t coming soon Lyngdorf it is I guess
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post #42 of 47 Old 02-05-2019, 02:45 PM
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I am considering the same - would ideally love an MX160 replacement that has HDMI 2.1 support but I don’t see any evidence that is on the horizon. If that isn’t coming soon Lyngdorf it is I guess
2.1 support isn't coming to the mass market AVRs until mid-late 2020. Then, you're looking at another 1-2 years for the boutique products.
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post #43 of 47 Old 02-06-2019, 06:41 PM
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2.1 support isn't coming to the mass market AVRs until mid-late 2020. Then, you're looking at another 1-2 years for the boutique products.
I did get confirmation that there will be a board upgrade for MX-160 in Calendar 2019.
It will require shipping to McIntosh and will not be free....
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post #44 of 47 Old 02-06-2019, 07:02 PM
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I did get confirmation that there will be a board upgrade for MX-160 in Calendar 2019.
It will require shipping to McIntosh and will not be free....
The board is 2.0b, not 2.1.

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post #45 of 47 Old 03-13-2019, 04:16 AM
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I did get confirmation that there will be a board upgrade for MX-160 in Calendar 2019.
It will require shipping to McIntosh and will not be free....
Do you have any idea what the timeline is for this?
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post #46 of 47 Old 03-13-2019, 08:39 AM
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Do you have any idea what the timeline is for this?

FWIW and IIRC Lyngdorf says the board for the MP-50 will be available in the fall.

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post #47 of 47 Old 03-14-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by braddmlewis View Post
I did get confirmation that there will be a board upgrade for MX-160 in Calendar 2019.
It will require shipping to McIntosh and will not be free....

You can bypass the whole need for AVP based HDMI switching and gain a major benefit(advance display calibration abilities, auto AR control, advanced HDR auto tonemapping etc) in actual home theater installs by putting a Lumagen VP into your system. Not hard a addition to justify if you already can afford a MX160. I have had one now since mid last year and completely bypass the MX160 for video. If you're more living room style feeding a panel fair enough I guess to desire HDMI passthrough and switcing. Mind you I couldn't personally justify a high end processor in my (albeit large) living room the way I can in my dedicated HT.
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post #48 of 47 Old 05-23-2019, 05:47 AM
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Do you have any idea what the timeline is for this?


I heard from my dealer that the next generation of this processor may be released in July. Anyone else hear this rumor?


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