Official Sony VPL-VW995ES/870ES 4K Laser Owner’s Discussion - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1426 Old 12-16-2019, 03:40 PM
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I believe we are on the X1 extreme right now. So yes, a new processor and HDMI 2.1 would make sense.
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post #1412 of 1426 Old 12-17-2019, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Eventidal View Post
It´s the additional presets that I am really missing. DTM would be great but I am covered with my Lumagen.
I thought you can't really use the Sonys additional sdr/hdr presets, because you are or should only be outputting in sdr from Lumagen? Am I missing something

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post #1413 of 1426 Old 12-17-2019, 01:06 AM
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I thought you can't really use the Sonys additional sdr/hdr presets, because you are or should only be outputting in sdr from Lumagen? Am I missing something

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No, you are unfortunately right. But I might be adding some HDR2020 presets and compare the results. Need to wrap my head around this!

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post #1414 of 1426 Old 12-17-2019, 04:41 AM
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All depends how you use the Radiance Pro.

Though with DTM the display should be in SDR.
I believe that the 3D LUT already correct targets and DTM being dynamic, the display can use a traditional gamma.

It may be possible to run the Sony in HDR mod because they use fixed HDR settings.

I am not sure which combination makes more sense, maybe both lead to the same end result, therefore the easier way should be taken into account.

Because the Radiance Pro can run multiple 3D LUT and LightSpace can calcultate 3D LUT from a single measurement session (correct me if I am wrong), the idea is to set the display as a common state using native gamut, corrected greyscale and gamma (2.4 ?).
Then use the Radiance Pro for all conversions rec.709, DCi (90% possible on Sony), rec.2020 (simulated).

But I quite like the idea calibrating manually all profiles on the Sony and then use its DTM when/if it become available.
Old fashioned but more fun.
Still I keep in mind that the Radiance and coming Envy are more efficient that this method.
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post #1415 of 1426 Old 12-20-2019, 02:28 PM
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Planning to order 995ES, Second Thoughts

I have had my mind set on this projector for over a year. I dreamed about it. Reading so much on this forum, pros and cons, I am wondering should I go through with my plans. Or perhaps order a JVC RS4500? What is causing me doubts, just from memory while I type this is: blobs, uniformity, lens with some kind of deformity, just to name three. Several "well seasoned" 995ES owners claim some kind of defect and say to PM them for help. Is it that bad? I really want to go through with my plans, but I am concerned the unit will need to be exchanged, that I will put a burden on my dealer as a result, that I will need to prove to dealer, or to Sony, that there is a problem requiring exchange, that I will need to call in a calibrator for a second time to photograph issues to justify an exchange, that I will have to justify what I see is a defect, that my request to exchange will be turned down by dealer or Sony, that i will have no projector for weeks, to name just a few concerns. How do I know that my dealer and/or Sony will support me 100% if there is a problem. What if I need to exchange a second or third unit, and a request for a fourth unit, and it's denied? Can I get my money back if I have this unit for 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, for example. The 995ES is a big investment for me, but I have the money and permission, but I don't want to be stuck with a lemon with no way to come up with another 35K. I know, I read here, "every manufacturer of this kind of high priced projector has its own issues, so pick your poison." Poison? I've also read this projector gets a bad rap in these forums. Why? But my reading in these forums seems to weigh somewhat against the 995ES, my brain's doing some kind of statistics on the pros and cons, a brain-spreadsheet. Does the RS4500 come in better because there are less, or no, blobs, uniformity issues? Will the RS4500 be in every way an equal or better? The RS4500 puts a color filter in for some settings, lowering the light output to a similar output of the Sony. Break even here? I am posting to the 995ES thread, so any replies may be biased in the pros direction, which is bias. I think I am looking for a confidence builder to stick with my plans and move forward. Are there any, "Wish I had not gone with a 995ES." Or just make up your mind and buy something? Any thoughts? Planning to order something in this price range in January. Thanks so very much to all, happy holidays!
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post #1416 of 1426 Old 12-20-2019, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Yes, they did confirm they are working on a DTM solution. They did not say when or for what projectors it would be available.
I believe if Sony was working on DTM as a new feature for strictly unreleased/unannounced projectors they would be much more tight lipped about it (as history has shown). Announcing next generation features early for future projectors would also slow existing projector sales. Therefore the fact that they are discussing it openly leads to a higher likelihood that it is coming for us 885/995 and 5000 owners (and European equivalents).

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post #1417 of 1426 Old 12-20-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I had an email from Sony regarding a query about DTM for the laser machines and they volunteered the information that they are working on adding the additional functions to the 870/995 that the 5000 and 760 got. They did not say when however, but I would think it wouldn't be long.
The only thing the 870 is missing re the other two models is I believe the auto HDR switching anyway.
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Which means there is no confirmation for DTM yet?
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Yes, they did confirm they are working on a DTM solution. They did not say when or for what projectors it would be available.
Your first post above says Sony confirmed they are working on adding the additional functions to the 870/995 that the 760 and 5000 got. They did not get DTM. If you have an email from Sony saying they are working on DTM for these projectors please post it.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #1418 of 1426 Old 12-20-2019, 09:48 PM
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At last CEDIA Sony strongly disclaimed that DTM was even necessary for their projectors - BS as an excuse why they didn’t need DTM for their projectors. So unless I see written proof Iwrite this off as hopeful misinterpretation.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #1419 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
I believe if Sony was working on DTM as a new feature for strictly unreleased/unannounced projectors they would be much more tight lipped about it (as history has shown). Announcing next generation features early for future projectors would also slow existing projector sales. Therefore the fact that they are discussing it openly leads to a higher likelihood that it is coming for us 885/995 and 5000 owners (and European equivalents).
Good point. I hope that is the case.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #1420 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Your first post above says Sony confirmed they are working on adding the additional functions to the 870/995 that the 760 and 5000 got. They did not get DTM. If you have an email from Sony saying they are working on DTM for these projectors please post it.
Hi.
I asked them specifically about DTM.

They responded by saying that they are working on a solution and also are looking at giving the 870/995 the additional features given to the 760/5000 in the latest update. (namely auto HDR switching and allowing auto HDR10 or Reference modes under 'Auto' in the HDR menu. i.e. "We understand that the VW760 and VW5000 FW update announced at IFA included some minor functionalities that would be of benefit to VW870 owners, we are considering to align these features".

I am certainly not going to post up my personal emails, but they did also volunteer in the same message that they are "looking into dynamic tone mapping functionality for HDR but nothing is confirmed at this stage".

So that is all I have on the matter. It certainly isn't a No way José, that is for sure.
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post #1421 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
At last CEDIA Sony strongly disclaimed that DTM was even necessary for their projectors - BS as an excuse why they didn’t need DTM for their projectors. So unless I see written proof Iwrite this off as hopeful misinterpretation.
They also once told several people on no uncertain terms that they were never EVER going to activate the iris in the 760...………………...
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post #1422 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by refohs View Post
I have had my mind set on this projector for over a year. I dreamed about it. Reading so much on this forum, pros and cons, I am wondering should I go through with my plans. Or perhaps order a JVC RS4500? What is causing me doubts, just from memory while I type this is: blobs, uniformity, lens with some kind of deformity, just to name three. Several "well seasoned" 995ES owners claim some kind of defect and say to PM them for help. Is it that bad? I really want to go through with my plans, but I am concerned the unit will need to be exchanged, that I will put a burden on my dealer as a result, that I will need to prove to dealer, or to Sony, that there is a problem requiring exchange, that I will need to call in a calibrator for a second time to photograph issues to justify an exchange, that I will have to justify what I see is a defect, that my request to exchange will be turned down by dealer or Sony, that i will have no projector for weeks, to name just a few concerns. How do I know that my dealer and/or Sony will support me 100% if there is a problem. What if I need to exchange a second or third unit, and a request for a fourth unit, and it's denied? Can I get my money back if I have this unit for 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, for example. The 995ES is a big investment for me, but I have the money and permission, but I don't want to be stuck with a lemon with no way to come up with another 35K. I know, I read here, "every manufacturer of this kind of high priced projector has its own issues, so pick your poison." Poison? I've also read this projector gets a bad rap in these forums. Why? But my reading in these forums seems to weigh somewhat against the 995ES, my brain's doing some kind of statistics on the pros and cons, a brain-spreadsheet. Does the RS4500 come in better because there are less, or no, blobs, uniformity issues? Will the RS4500 be in every way an equal or better? The RS4500 puts a color filter in for some settings, lowering the light output to a similar output of the Sony. Break even here? I am posting to the 995ES thread, so any replies may be biased in the pros direction, which is bias. I think I am looking for a confidence builder to stick with my plans and move forward. Are there any, "Wish I had not gone with a 995ES." Or just make up your mind and buy something? Any thoughts? Planning to order something in this price range in January. Thanks so very much to all, happy holidays!
Hi.
Any device can have issues and it is here that you will find out about these issues as that is sort of why it is here.

There will be many more with no issues. Why not have your dealer test the device with you before you take delivery and if it has issues, then your dealer/Sony can sort it out straight away with another unit. That is the nature of this AV hobby beast.
Generally one cannot see truly what the device is like until set up at home and if there are issues then hassle and replacements ensue. Cannot really be avoided in that scenario.
The cost of these projectors just makes it that much harder to swallow as you have said.

If you do get issues down the line, then be sure to take as much evidence down as you can as soon as you can. I have found Sony can be a little obtuse to deal with directly at times which is why it really helps to have the weight of your dealer behind you.

As for the weight of opinion of one brand v another, just read some threads on here to see where most peoples loyalties lie and why they do. Then, make up your own mind.

The main reason I would have the 870 over the Z1 is the more manageable size and weight. However if you have a particularly large screen the higher lumens of the Z1 will prove useful.

Check out the Deadpool pic on the (currently) last page of the RS4500/Z1 thread and below that a pic I posted from X-Men Porkylips on my 760/885. You will see that as for viewing satisfaction goes they are both superb examples of modern projectors from either brand. I would be happy to own either of these, all things being equal.

If you can go and see a demo of both and make up your mind.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.
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post #1423 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 06:50 AM
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My initial 1000es had a problem as we’ll as my initial 5000es. Both were issues out of the box that I discovered. I did most of the corresponding with Sony, as well as sending them pictures. My dealer did briefly touch base with Sony as well. In both cases Sony was very accommodating and sent me new units. As far as the anti-Sony atmosphere here, don’t put much weight on it. See both projectors for yourself then decide (on the Sony).

Archibald makes a good point. If your dealer is welling, have him open it up and do a quality inspection, even if there is a bit of an upcharge. Many dealers will do this and personally, I think this it’s worth the cost.
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post #1424 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 07:10 AM
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Another option might be to ship it from Sony directly to an expert calibrator. They could check it out and likely calibrate (with your screen material, setup info) and then ship to you after everything checks out. SJ
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post #1425 of 1426 Old 12-21-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
At last CEDIA Sony strongly disclaimed that DTM was even necessary for their projectors - BS as an excuse why they didn’t need DTM for their projectors. So unless I see written proof Iwrite this off as hopeful misinterpretation.
I don’t believe this is a misinterpretation. I have heard Sony is working on DTM from different members on AVS as well as another source. Will it be added/implemented is another story.
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Last edited by G-Rex; 12-21-2019 at 08:44 AM.
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post #1426 of 1426 Old 01-03-2020, 12:17 PM
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I don’t believe this is a misinterpretation. I have heard Sony is working on DTM from different members on AVS as well as another source. Will it be added/implemented is another story.
Well yes, I heard it from Sony themselves.

I reckon it makes good business sense to update their current lines with DTM and put more resources from the newly invigorated line up into truly next gen panels and laser set ups (RGB perhaps) for the next gen in a few years.

That would be more likely to get an upgrade from me at that time than selling a 780 in a few months that is basically no different to my 760 but for the DTM on board.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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