|I have not listened to a single DIY sub of any kind
|As I said, goneten, your 'designs' don't retail for $20K, so please terminate all further folly and keep to the topic of $20K plus HT Gear
You were the one that challanged this design.You were the one that commented that DIY'ers couldn't compete to Wilson offerings.And it was you that changed the topic of discussion.Why does a design have to retail for $20k? We are here to talk
about High-End gear, not necessarily ultra High-End prices.
|Wilson has well known product regarded by everybody except for a couple of would be rocket scientists DIY'ers, who haven't even shown us one pic of a home built sub to qualify as a DIY'er.
Argumentation by assertion(again).Firstly, I don't doubt that Wilson is a well regarded product.Not once have I asserted, or implied that Wilson is not
well regarded, so your comment is completely laughable.You keep making things up for no good reason, and I'm starting to get frustrated.You are accusing me(and others) of considering Wilson as not well known, and thats a load of bull.Secondly, you make sweeping generalizations that Wilson makes products that are regarded by everyone
.It might surprise you, but not everyone shares the same opinions as you do.Thirdly, I would very much appreciate it, if you would stop using stawmen to bolster your argument.Do you understand what strawmen are?
|This not about snobbery at all, it's about you claiming to beat the worlds best vendor in your garage with stuff shown above. Get out of town, fast.
Huh? Now its the worlds "best" vendor? I thought that it was one
of the best.Thats a loaded question! Firstly, no-one has proven Wilson to be the worlds best vendor, so your claim is questionable.There is no such thing as "best", and you haven't even given a definition for it.Besides, Wilson is but one
of many well regarded vendors.Be careful when making such sweeping generalizations, especially since you have not heard every High-End speaker.
So we have argumentation by assertion, presupposition rolled up into one massive deflated ball of strawman fallacies.This has been quite hilarious.:rolleyes:.And I'm not intentially trying to be nasty towards you, but you are being very unreasonable.The reality of this situation, is that you are unwilling to concede that its a possibility that commercial designs can be outperformed.You are simply being stubborn, thats all.You are also being very close minded.If you are unwilling to learn why you are incorrect, then its pointless to talk to you.I can explain the physics needed to help you better understand why commercial designs can be bettered.
|I doubt you'll convince more than a handful of people that the 'sub' pictured above will come within a country mile of a Wilson sub of any kind or age.
Is this supposed to be a joke? I made absolutely no claim that the above picture would outperform the XS.I never intended to convince anyone of anything.:rolleyes: Since I never intended to compare against the XS(as you have), then I'll be granted the same level of courtesy.The picture above uses the XXX 18" driver.This driver achieves 32mm Xmax! Thats one of the most powerful 18" drivers in the world right there.It would really surprise me if the 18" driver featured in the XS has even 14mm Xmax.
No Wilson subwoofer driver has this much clean travel, I'll guarantee you that.The motor is far more advanced as well.This driver includes XBL^2 technology, which further lowers distortion by a very wide margin.The XS uses no XBL^2 technology that I can tell.So far, the XS is not fairing too well.:( You know absolutely nothing about the picture above, you hypothesize based on fallacious grounds, and you have doubts.No wonder.:rolleyes:
Since XBL^2 has shown that the BL curve is relatively stable at almost all power levels, the XS drivers will start showing signs of distortion at far lower levels.Granted the Wilson XS uses 2 18" drivers(in a much bigger enclosure).The driver above is in a relatively small enclosure.Make no mistake, its still far more powerful than the driver featured in the XS.You also say "of any kind".The only other Wilson subwoofer that I'm aware of is the Watchdog.The SVS Ultra can produce greater clean output down low than this subwoofer, so I'm really stumped as to why you would mention Wilsons lesser subwoofers.
Just remember that you are basically forcing me to point out these aspects.As far as I'm concerned, you are the one that doesn't want to be convinced.
|why sit here and tell us your 'subs' are better than (at least) one of the worlds best vendors of speakers.
Some simple physics.Lets talk about comparisons.An 18" driver is not necessarily more powerful than a 12" driver.Why? Because it essentially tells you nothing.All things being equal, the 18" driver will achieve greater excursion than the 12" driver.An 18 inch driver has 2.25 times the surface area of a 12 inch driver.If the excursion limit of the voice coil is 1 inch on the 18, the 12 would have to move 2.25 inches to move the same amount of air. The SVS Ultra for example can easily outgun the Velodyne HGS18, and this has been documented, measured and verified.
For any given power level, the larger cone has to move a shorter distance within the voice coil gap to move the same amount of air.The magnetic field in the voice coil gap is linear over a range, but approaches non-linear at the limits.So the other factor for keeping distortion low, in addition to a stiff lightweight cone and amplifier not driven to clipping, is the suspension.It must be linear in the the linear region of the magnetic gap, and non-linear in the region at the excursion limits.This is hard to do when suspension travel is great, and easier to do when the suspension travel is a shorter length.
Now listen very carefully.The surface area together with the drivers linear excursion will dictate how much air(displacement) it can move.Since the XS driver apparently has 3.5 L VD(displacement), it also has (2) 18" drivers.Now the AV15 achieves 3.8 L VD.Greater clean output because the drivers linear excursion is slightly greater.Use (2) AV15's in a 15ft^3(or slightly greater) box tuned to 18hz.In-room response will dip to 15hz or slightly lower.It will have the capability to move more air(displacement).The drivers featured in the XS were probably some of the best in its day.But its far from revolutionary by todays standards, and this is why you can achieve greater clean excursion with slightly smaller(but more capable) sized drivers.
This might come across as some lecture to you, but you must understand where I'm coming from.How else do you expect to understand what is going on.This option should outgun the XS.Thats not mean't to be a knock off.This is the most simple explanation that I can possible come up with.If you don't listen, or want to learn then there is nothing more to talk about.If you want to understand further, then you can ask me some questions and I will gladly answer them for you.http://home.rochester.rr.com/wesnanc...edsub_0011.jpg
This is a much better looking sub.:)