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post #1 of 82 Old 04-24-2019, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Epson Unveils World’s First 12,000 Lumen Native 4K 3LCD Laser Projector

Epson Unveils World’s First 12,000 Lumen Native 4K 3LCD Laser Projector and a New Compact 20,000 Lumen WUXGA Model

Projectors Designed to Meet the Demands of Rental and Staging with Features Such As Swappable Interface Boards and Compatibility with Existing Epson Projector Lenses
February 06, 2018


AMSTERDAM (ISE 2018, Epson Booth #1-H90 ) – Feb. 6, 2018 – Epson, the number-one selling projector brand worldwide, today announced the world’s first 12,000 lumen native 4K 3LCD laser projector, the Pro L12000Q. Epson also adds the compact Pro L20000U to its large venue projector line, boasting 20,000 lumens of color and white brightness1 and WUXGA resolution. Epson’s new 3LCD laser projectors will be on display at ISE 2018 in Amsterdam from Feb. 6-9 at Epson’s booth, #1-H90 .
Epson’s award-winning Pro L-Series laser projectors are powerful performers in demanding environments, including rental and staging events, lecture halls, and digital signage installations. The new Pro L12000Q and L20000U models share the same robust, compact and lightweight chassis that makes them easy to integrate into existing infrastructure – a breakthrough at this level of brightness. The new projectors also feature support for HDR, 360-degree installation flexibility, and a sealed light source and optical engine to protect from dust and smoke.





I am not sure what the list price of this projector would be. I am assuming $20k range; hence posting here.



Very interesting to me. Has anyone seen this at ISE 2018? That's more than a year ago. I talked to the local Epson distributor/dealer. He said he has no information on it.
Has anyone heard about this?
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post #2 of 82 Old 04-25-2019, 01:40 AM
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Epson Unveils World’s First 12,000 Lumen Native 4K 3LCD Laser Projector

The Inorganic lcd tech sounds like a really interesting improvement. I’m surprised it hasn’t been used more often in home theater projectors.

http://www.connessioni.biz/en/?p=9676?lang=en
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post #3 of 82 Old 04-26-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Epson Unveils World’s First 12,000 Lumen Native 4K 3LCD Laser Projector and a New Compact 20,000 Lumen WUXGA Model

Projectors Designed to Meet the Demands of Rental and Staging with Features Such As Swappable Interface Boards and Compatibility with Existing Epson Projector Lenses
February 06, 2018


AMSTERDAM (ISE 2018, Epson Booth #1-H90 ) – Feb. 6, 2018 – Epson, the number-one selling projector brand worldwide, today announced the world’s first 12,000 lumen native 4K 3LCD laser projector, the Pro L12000Q. Epson also adds the compact Pro L20000U to its large venue projector line, boasting 20,000 lumens of color and white brightness1 and WUXGA resolution. Epson’s new 3LCD laser projectors will be on display at ISE 2018 in Amsterdam from Feb. 6-9 at Epson’s booth, #1-H90 .
Epson’s award-winning Pro L-Series laser projectors are powerful performers in demanding environments, including rental and staging events, lecture halls, and digital signage installations. The new Pro L12000Q and L20000U models share the same robust, compact and lightweight chassis that makes them easy to integrate into existing infrastructure – a breakthrough at this level of brightness. The new projectors also feature support for HDR, 360-degree installation flexibility, and a sealed light source and optical engine to protect from dust and smoke.





I am not sure what the list price of this projector would be. I am assuming $20k range; hence posting here.



Very interesting to me. Has anyone seen this at ISE 2018? That's more than a year ago. I talked to the local Epson distributor/dealer. He said he has no information on it.
Has anyone heard about this?

Great to see Epson join the native 4K arena and with 12,000 lumens it will be a great option for larger screen venues and HDR . Brightness is certainly lacking in most of the 4K projectors available now considering what is needed for adequate HDR on a large screen . If the price is in the $20,000 range it will certainly get a lot of attention and keep the other manufactures in check , that will benefit everyone.

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post #4 of 82 Old 04-27-2019, 03:44 AM
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Hope they don't reserve the native 4k part for large venues? 1080 is more than fine for large venues sheesh.

We need native 4k for home theatre.
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post #5 of 82 Old 04-27-2019, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by oztheatre View Post
Hope they don't reserve the native 4k part for large venues? 1080 is more than fine for large venues sheesh.

We need native 4k for home theatre.
This article is more then 1 Year old...
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post #6 of 82 Old 04-28-2019, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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This article is more then 1 Year old...
and they still don't have the projector available for sale! I spoke to an Epson dealer and he could not find it in his system!
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post #7 of 82 Old 04-28-2019, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Great to see Epson join the native 4K arena and with 12,000 lumens it will be a great option for larger screen venues and HDR . Brightness is certainly lacking in most of the 4K projectors available now considering what is needed for adequate HDR on a large screen . If the price is in the $20,000 range it will certainly get a lot of attention and keep the other manufactures in check , that will benefit everyone.
L25000U specs indicate native 2k with 4k enhancement!



I could not find info on the L12000U on epson site. I am wondering if the L12000U also would be only 4k enhancement and the 1 year old article was an error? The article did say "native 4k".

I am waiting for the Epson dealer to get back to me. Considering that the article is a year old.. If it really is 4k and under $20k, it should have gotten a lot of attention but it is surprising that no one wrote about it. On the epson site, it shows up when I select "Above $15000" filter. There was no filter for "above $20000".
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post #8 of 82 Old 04-28-2019, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
L25000U specs indicate native 2k with 4k enhancement!



I could not find info on the L12000U on epson site. I am wondering if the L12000U also would be only 4k enhancement and the 1 year old article was an error? The article did say "native 4k".

I am waiting for the Epson dealer to get back to me. Considering that the article is a year old.. If it really is 4k and under $20k, it should have gotten a lot of attention but it is surprising that no one wrote about it. On the epson site, it shows up when I select "Above $15000" filter. There was no filter for "above $20000".

Well, in the thread for Sim2 they are asking $100,000 for a projector that is 1080P with lamps . How ironic to see enthusiasts advocating 1080P as acceptable for a projector of this cost, some of the very same individuals in other threads obsessing about ultimate detail for 4K comparing QBF patterns to scrutinize projectors that don't make the grade for "ultimate" 4K resolution, then doing a/b comparing brands . I have my own opinion, but suffice it to say, obviously , native 4K doesn't have to be number one for some on the priority list . With that said , even if the new Epson is e-shift the abundance of light will offer another advantages, possibly the other variables will make up . Price wise, $20,000 range is reasonable for a e-shift if other variables are descent considering the projected light output and considering it will be a reliable and stable laser . $100,000 for a 1080P projector, wouldn't be for me and add to that it's lamp based and all the issues that goes with that, seems a bit much.


I ended up picking up the VW5000 , it's actually in transit now. I'll be projecting long throw ( 24ft) on a 150" 1.0 gain ST100 , have around 80FL available with the Paladin DCR . Considering I paid less than the VW995 or the RS4500 for a new VW5000 it's the right price at this point and certainly more than enough brightness . Wish I had other options to consider like the Epson here, unfortunately for larger reference level screens of 140" or larger , nothing else available now was adequate without stretching the performance or adding gain .



Epson make great products and a 12,000 lumen option should provide options for really large screens that others cannot, if the price is correct, it will be within reach for many . HDR requires a lot of lumens , there is a good reason Christie's new projector boasts the best HDR image ever seen , 500 nits is available to punch out those spectral highlights the way they should be seen .
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Last edited by roxiedog13; 04-28-2019 at 05:36 AM.
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post #9 of 82 Old 04-28-2019, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally posted by arrow-av on a different thread:

https://photos.smugmug.com/SIM2-HDR-DUO-PLUS/i-gc7QpBN/0/a88b948a/O/EPSON.jpg
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post #10 of 82 Old 04-28-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Well, in the thread for Sim2 they are asking $100,000 for a projector that is 1080P with lamps . How ironic to see enthusiasts advocating 1080P as acceptable for a projector of this cost, some of the very same individuals in other threads obsessing about ultimate detail for 4K comparing QBF patterns to scrutinize projectors that don't make the grade for "ultimate" 4K resolution, then doing a/b comparing brands.
You should try to read my posts a little better Robert

You will note that I carry out deep dive analysis and evaluation of ALL aspects of video performance.

Furthermore, my Quick Brown Fox test pattern is specifically aimed at testing first and foremost lens and optics performance, including focus, sharpness, MTF, focus uniformity, RGB panel convergence, Chromatic Aberration, and 4:4:4 Chroma Subsampling performance to name a few, as well as of course detail delineation.

I also have always advocated what the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF), THX, and the Professional Video Alliance (PVA) stipulate regarding the ranking of importance of resolution; and have yet again cited this in my review of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS.

So hardly "obsessing about ultimate detail for 4K"

I don't want to repeat myself so I recommend you actually read my review properly as well as my posts.

Either way please kindly desist with making statements regarding what I have supposedly said or done that quite simply aren't true. Many thanks in advance

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post #11 of 82 Old 04-28-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
... 500 nits is available to punch out those spectral highlights the way they should be seen .
This intrigues me in that if our environments are actually better than what you would get in a cinema or a home den with a 1000 nit OLED would 500 or lower actually be all that we would need to have a tone-mapped (static or dynamic) HDR PQ that gives us what we want? If 100 nits covers the APL the range for the UHD that would leave 100 - 400 nits for spectral highlights even if you followed the curve up to 100. Shouldn't that be plenty with the proper tone map in an very controlled environment??
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post #12 of 82 Old 04-29-2019, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I ended up picking up the VW5000 , it's actually in transit now. I'll be projecting long throw ( 24ft) on a 150" 1.0 gain ST100 , have around 80FL available with the Paladin DCR . Considering I paid less than the VW995 or the RS4500 for a new VW5000 it's the right price at this point and certainly more than enough brightness .
Congratulations roxiedog13 that is a mighty fine projector








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post #13 of 82 Old 05-07-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Epson Unveils World’s First 12,000 Lumen Native 4K 3LCD Laser Projector and a New Compact 20,000 Lumen WUXGA Model

Projectors Designed to Meet the Demands of Rental and Staging with Features Such As Swappable Interface Boards and Compatibility with Existing Epson Projector Lenses
February 06, 2018


AMSTERDAM (ISE 2018, Epson Booth #1-H90 ) – Feb. 6, 2018 – Epson, the number-one selling projector brand worldwide, today announced the world’s first 12,000 lumen native 4K 3LCD laser projector, the Pro L12000Q. Epson also adds the compact Pro L20000U to its large venue projector line, boasting 20,000 lumens of color and white brightness1 and WUXGA resolution. Epson’s new 3LCD laser projectors will be on display at ISE 2018 in Amsterdam from Feb. 6-9 at Epson’s booth, #1-H90 .
Epson’s award-winning Pro L-Series laser projectors are powerful performers in demanding environments, including rental and staging events, lecture halls, and digital signage installations. The new Pro L12000Q and L20000U models share the same robust, compact and lightweight chassis that makes them easy to integrate into existing infrastructure – a breakthrough at this level of brightness. The new projectors also feature support for HDR, 360-degree installation flexibility, and a sealed light source and optical engine to protect from dust and smoke.





I am not sure what the list price of this projector would be. I am assuming $20k range; hence posting here.



Very interesting to me. Has anyone seen this at ISE 2018? That's more than a year ago. I talked to the local Epson distributor/dealer. He said he has no information on it.
Has anyone heard about this?

I did walk by. First impression LCD contrast, white blast.
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post #14 of 82 Old 05-07-2019, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I did walk by. First impression LCD contrast, white blast.
You actually viewed the picture from this projector? Was it in a reasonably light controlled setting or fully open?
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
L25000U specs indicate native 2k with 4k enhancement!



I could not find info on the L12000U on epson site. I am wondering if the L12000U also would be only 4k enhancement and the 1 year old article was an error? The article did say "native 4k".

I am waiting for the Epson dealer to get back to me. Considering that the article is a year old.. If it really is 4k and under $20k, it should have gotten a lot of attention but it is surprising that no one wrote about it. On the epson site, it shows up when I select "Above $15000" filter. There was no filter for "above $20000".
Nope that was the news, native 4K. Epson has been working on (reflective) 4K LCD for years. Before it even launched its large venue line, or even the laser-phosphor HT projector. The past year or two Epson has been adding pixel shifting to ever brighter projectors.
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
You actually viewed the picture from this projector? Was it in a reasonably light controlled setting or fully open?
Full open like more or less every display at the large white Epson stand.
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post #17 of 82 Old 05-07-2019, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Nope that was the news, native 4K. Epson has been working on (reflective) 4K LCD for years. Before it even launched its large venue line, or even the laser-phosphor HT projector. The past year or two Epson has been adding pixel shifting to ever brighter projectors.
Did you talk to anyone at Epson about whether or not it is true 8 million pixel or the usual eshift 4 million pixel kind or look into this projector. Obviously, in an open setting, its difficult to gauge the picture quality/contrast.

Last edited by audvid; 05-07-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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post #18 of 82 Old 05-07-2019, 12:32 PM
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Did you talk to anyone at Epson about whether or not it is true 8 million pixel or the usual eshift 4 million pixel kind or look into this projector. Obviously, in an open setting, its difficult to gauge the picture quality/contrast.
Nope,but I did see the press releases. The regular line-up was now equiped with pixel-shift all the way through to the U25000. But this one was new less bright, but native 4K. But I can't find even a spec. sheet. just the original ISE announcements, at Epson Europe.

This Belgian pro-AV reseller claims it is now available, available since ISE 2019: https://www.bekafun.com/nl/news/detail/3454.

The lenses carry over from the HD range, so great news for rental and staging, not so for HT.

Is gizguide.com an US publication? As it posted:

Price and availability
The Epson EB-L12000Q and EB-L20000U projectors will be on sale in the region in the second half of 2019.

There's no word on its SRP yet.

Read more: Epson announces the first-ever lumen native 4K 3LCD laser projector, the EB-L12000Q https://www.gizguide.com/2019/01/eps...#ixzz5nGX6XERh

Edit Dutch Distributor is also saying January 2019 availability for the 12000Q, the 20000 with e-shift has been available since somewhere second half of 2018.
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Last edited by donaldk; 05-07-2019 at 02:05 PM.
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post #19 of 82 Old 06-14-2019, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I had contacted Epson dealer for the Epson L12000Q. He said to me 3 months ago, that it would be available for sale in June. He had sent me an email yesterday that Epson plans to release it in 1st quarter 2020 and price to be announced around that time.
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Edit Dutch Distributor is also saying January 2019 availability for the 12000Q.....
I assume you meant Jan 2020?
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Nope, it was said to be shipping following ISE 2019. I found two distributors/resellers that confirmed this online.

I have one contact at Epson, but he has been moved up several times into an international role, so I don't like to bother him much, but will ask.
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Nope, it was said to be shipping following ISE 2019. I found two distributors/resellers that confirmed this online.

I have one contact at Epson, but he has been moved up several times into an international role, so I don't like to bother him much, but will ask.
can you put me in touch with the resellers who confirmed? Please PM me. I am seriously considering buying this.. depending on price. I don't yet know what price range it is in.
The guy who said the preceding that it is not available until 1Q 2020 also is a full fledged Epson distributor - Epson had put me in touch with him!
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It was on one Flemish resellers website. And the Dutch distributor (Epatra?) also posted the news on its website.

You may very well be right, as it is not listed anywhere in the various online projector selection engines on Epson websites.

There's no further news since the ISE announcement, and the US mention on gizguide of fall shipping.

So let's see if, when my contact get's back to me and what he has to say.
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post #24 of 82 Old 06-18-2019, 01:41 PM
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My contact couldn't tell me anymore,

However, it was at both ISE 2018/2019, and at Infocomm 2018/2019, and at CEDIA USA 2018.

There was an international launch event in Thailand this past January for the new projector line. The description also says the unit actually on show/demo was the 20000K lumens with pixel shift:


And Rave just put this video on Youtube from Infocomm 2019


From ISE 2019:

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post #25 of 82 Old 06-18-2019, 01:50 PM
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He said €60K plus tax, right.
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post #26 of 82 Old 06-18-2019, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Well, in the thread for Sim2 they are asking $100,000 for a projector that is 1080P with lamps . How ironic to see enthusiasts advocating 1080P as acceptable for a projector of this cost, some of the very same individuals in other threads obsessing about ultimate detail for 4K comparing QBF patterns to scrutinize projectors that don't make the grade for "ultimate" 4K resolution, then doing a/b comparing brands . I have my own opinion, but suffice it to say, obviously , native 4K doesn't have to be number one for some on the priority list . With that said , even if the new Epson is e-shift the abundance of light will offer another advantages, possibly the other variables will make up . Price wise, $20,000 range is reasonable for a e-shift if other variables are descent considering the projected light output and considering it will be a reliable and stable laser . $100,000 for a 1080P projector, wouldn't be for me and add to that it's lamp based and all the issues that goes with that, seems a bit much.


I ended up picking up the VW5000 , it's actually in transit now. I'll be projecting long throw ( 24ft) on a 150" 1.0 gain ST100 , have around 80FL available with the Paladin DCR . Considering I paid less than the VW995 or the RS4500 for a new VW5000 it's the right price at this point and certainly more than enough brightness . Wish I had other options to consider like the Epson here, unfortunately for larger reference level screens of 140" or larger , nothing else available now was adequate without stretching the performance or adding gain .



Epson make great products and a 12,000 lumen option should provide options for really large screens that others cannot, if the price is correct, it will be within reach for many . HDR requires a lot of lumens , there is a good reason Christie's new projector boasts the best HDR image ever seen , 500 nits is available to punch out those spectral highlights the way they should be seen .

How did you pull that off on the price?
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post #27 of 82 Old 06-28-2019, 04:00 PM
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How did you pull that off on the price?
Good question, since dealer cost is way more than a VW995 or RS4500 street price. Must be stolen.
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post #28 of 82 Old 06-29-2019, 12:04 PM
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post #29 of 82 Old 07-02-2019, 09:25 AM
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Good question, since dealer cost is way more than a VW995 or RS4500 street price. Must be stolen.
I thought it sounded suspicious.
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post #30 of 82 Old 07-02-2019, 09:27 AM
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My contact couldn't tell me anymore,

However, it was at both ISE 2018/2019, and at Infocomm 2018/2019, and at CEDIA USA 2018.

There was an international launch event in Thailand this past January for the new projector line. The description also says the unit actually on show/demo was the 20000K lumens with pixel shift:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0PZI7zF4zg

And Rave just put this video on Youtube from Infocomm 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi-wsh7w6fk

From ISE 2019:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QynULMTabno

What kind of contrast does this unit achieve in real life?
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