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post #181 of 236 Old 05-08-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
Read it carefully... it says 4K HDR10 nothing about 1080p... haven’t had 1080p here in a very long time...
..so everything else, don't trust your eyes? Youve just earned an ignore.
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post #182 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Dear SIM2 Friend,

See with your eyes what all the excellent NERO4S reviews from all over the world are about.

Join SIM2 at the forthcoming Technology & Business Summit TEXAS:

May 21 in Huston
Hilton Houston Post Oak
2001 Post Oak Blvd.
Houston, TX 77056

May 23 in Dallas
Texas Motor Speedway
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Fort Worth, TX 77056


This is a perfect opportunity to see "SIM2's 4K HDR superhero" (Home Cinema Choice definition), which is one of the strongest and most competent performer in 4K home cinema projection.
You will discover "the most spectacular 4k picture I have tested" (John Archer - Home Cinema Choice), "One Of The Most Satisfying UHD/HDR Projectors I’ve Used At Any Price." (Doug Blackburn - Widescreen Review)

SIM2 staff will be there to demo it for you and answer any question you may have. If you wish to book a meeting in advance, please write us at [email protected] or click on the button below.
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Originally Posted by wwtech View Post
Will you have the HD version on display as well? Now I just might have to go...
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Senor.. this is organized by CEDIA I am a lowly end user.. who got a invite and will swing by to take a look as it is 10 minutes from my home.
Just to make absolutely clear the SIM2 NERO4S DUO is not a 4K version of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, so the latter is not "the HD version" of the former. These are two completely different products with MASSIVELY different video performance. So don't be expecting to see anything like as good overall video performance as the HDR DUO PLUS if you go and check out a demo of the NERO4S DUO

You can find the full product details for the NERO4S here: http://www.sim2.com/home/en/content/nero-4s-uhd-hdr

In short, it is a 6000 lumens rated lamp-based projector, which uses the same TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset as is found within the entry level OPTOMA and BENQ projectors.

The BenQ LK990 projector features EXACTLY the same identical video chipset, with a 6,000 lumens LASER (not lamp) light engine... and costs only circa 8,000 bucks. The SIM2 NERO4S DUO costs circa 60,000 bucks and a singular NERO4S costs circa 30,000 bucks.

You can find the full product details for the BenQ LK990 here: https://business-display.benq.com/en...k990/spec.html

The attraction of the BenQ LK990 is the high brightness and laser light engine, at a low cost, wherein the low cost helps to offset the very poor low ADL contrast performance; wherein it should be noted that this chipset has a native ON/OFF contrast of circa 500:1 - 800:1

Let me repeat that... The native ON/OFF contrast performance of this video chipset measures circa 500:1 - 800:1. Yes, seriously.

It is interesting to note that the 'reviews' to which are being referred here, one of which includes absolutely zero measurements, and the other includes a full array of all measurements except only for (conveniently) omitting any and all contrast measurements.... Mmmmm, I wonder why?

The long and short of it is that I stake my professional reputation on being completely honest and impartial regarding all A/V equipment at all times. Consequently, I will not lie and I will not sugar-coat the truth either.

Wherein, the fact of the matter is that if you are looking for a typical very high brightness, very low ON/OFF contrast performing DLP projector, with single-chip DLP associated Rainbow Effect, then by all means check out these various projectors that all use the same TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset; of which the BenQ LK990 probably offers the best value for money.

But to be perfectly honest, TI have just released a far superior chipset, which very considerably outperforms this 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset. Specifically, it is a 0.98" NATIVE 4K (not 4M-Pixel-Shift) resolution 3-Chip DLP (no Rainbow Effect) DMD chipset with 3-4 times greater and hence very considerably superior native ON/OFF contrast performance.

So I ask the question...is there really a market for expensive, as in costing 30,000 - 60,000 bucks, projectors that use this TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset, what with its 500:1 - 800:1 Native ON/OFF contrast and Rainbows? When there is now this much, much better chipset available? Not really.

If SIM2 are smart they will ditch the TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset with respect to their more expensive projectors, and replace it with the new TI 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset.

Wherein, they could so very easily simply take the existing SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, which currently features an almost identical size chipset, being 0.95" in size, and replace this with the new 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset... And BOOM! You'd have essentially the same absolutely incredible video performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, but with the NATIVE 4K resolution that so many folks very clearly want!

Now THIS I would be EXTREMELY excited about and without a doubt SIM2 would sell these by the bucket-load!

The NERO4S singular or DUO for 30,000 or 60,000 bucks with its 500:1 - 800:1 native ON/OFF contrast TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip 'Rainbow Effect' DLP DMD chipset?

No thanks


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post #183 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Just to make absolutely clear the SIM2 NERO4S DUO is not a 4K version of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, so the latter is not "the HD version" of the former.
<snip>
Thank you for the lecture. Clearly, my use of "HD" was not specific enough to tell you that I meant the "SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS."

And no thanks for a single chip Benq. I also was implying that I was not interested in the "SIM2 NERO4S DUO."
No single chip DLPs for me.

FYI: I have not been a CEDIA member since Sony forced CEDIA to cancel Joe Kane's projector shoot out. And I also saw a demo of the Hughes/JVC cinema projector at a screening of "Little Voice" at Infocomm years ago. So I apologize for using shorthand and confusing the issue at hand as I am old and hate typing.
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post #184 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

But to be perfectly honest, TI have just released a far superior chipset, which very considerably outperforms this 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset. Specifically, it is a 0.98" NATIVE 4K (not 4M-Pixel-Shift) resolution 3-Chip DLP (no Rainbow Effect) DMD chipset with 3-4 times greater and hence very considerably superior native ON/OFF contrast performance.



If SIM2 are smart they will ditch the TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset with respect to their more expensive projectors, and replace it with the new TI 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset.

Wherein, they could so very easily simply take the existing SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, which currently features an almost identical size chipset, being 0.95" in size, and replace this with the new 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset... And BOOM! You'd have essentially the same absolutely incredible video performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, but with the NATIVE 4K resolution that so many folks very clearly want!

Now THIS I would be EXTREMELY excited about and without a doubt SIM2 would sell these by the bucket-load!

The NERO4S singular or DUO for 30,000 or 60,000 bucks with its 500:1 - 800:1 native ON/OFF contrast TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip 'Rainbow Effect' DLP DMD chipset?

No thanks

Do you have any information as to when we might start seeing this new TI chip in projectors?

I just bought the 990 100% acknowledging its strengths and weaknesses, purely based on value. Wasnt too keen to invest into either the Z1 or VW5000 when they are on (most likely) the downhill portion of their lifespans, and should be seeing their successors hopefully in the next year or 2. The 990 is my holdover until I can find a light cannon 4000+ 4k laser engine projector.

I had also heard rumor of this chip, which also made me feel like this might not be the best year for someone in my situation to be looking for their long-term projector.

Hopefully we see some projectors utilizing this chip in the next year or two? I have no idea how timelines in projectors work and when we can expect to see this chip in action?
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post #185 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Do you have any information as to when we might start seeing this new TI chip in projectors?

I just bought the 990 100% acknowledging its strengths and weaknesses, purely based on value. Wasnt too keen to invest into either the Z1 or VW5000 when they are on (most likely) the downhill portion of their lifespans, and should be seeing their successors hopefully in the next year or 2. The 990 is my holdover until I can find a light cannon 4000+ 4k laser engine projector.

I had also heard rumor of this chip, which also made me feel like this might not be the best year for someone in my situation to be looking for their long-term projector.

Hopefully we see some projectors utilizing this chip in the next year or two? I have no idea how timelines in projectors work and when we can expect to see this chip in action?
Well if you are looking for an inexpensive light cannon 4000+ 4k laser engine projector as a holdover, and are happy with both its strengths and weaknesses, the BenQ LK990 at only $8000 is indubitably an excellent choice. In fact, I am not aware of any other projector that ticks all those boxes at that price point

The new TI chip is already featuring in BARCO's new Series 4 range of projectors: https://www.cinionic.com/series4-laser-projectors

I expect to be seeing it in other projectors as well in about one year's time

This new TI 0.98" Native 4K 3-Chip DLP Chipset is rated as having the same IDENTICAL native ON/OFF contrast performance as the TI 0.95” HD 1080p resolution 3-Chip DLP Darkchip Chipset that is being used in the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS

Wherein, specifically with respect to BOTH the native ON/OFF contrast is rated 2,300:1. This is with the TI reference design using an F2.8 internal iris. If the projector design reduces the internal iris to F4.0 the native ON/OFF contrast is increased by circa 70%, so circa 3,910:1

Of course 2,300:1 - 3,910:1 in itself is not very high ON/OFF contrast, but for DLP this is a very good 'starting point' and significantly higher than 500:1 - 800:1! Wherein, the wizardry that SIM2 has employed with respect to the HDR DUO PLUS significantly increases this and thereby achieves the projector's high contrast performance.

Meaning that if SIM2 were to replace the existing 0.95” HD resolution Darkchip chipset with the new 0.98” Native 4K resolution chipset the contrast performance would be the same identical high contrast performance as the HDR DUO PLUS but with Native 4K resolution! And given the both chipsets are almost the same identical size swapping them should be very easy from an engineering perspective

I would love to see SIM2 do this, because this would be without a doubt the best performing Native 4K resolution projector in the world, second only to the Christie!

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post #186 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 10:28 AM
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this would be without a doubt the best performing Native 4K resolution projector in the world, second only to the Christie!

Eh? Did you mean to put relatively affordable in their somewhere?

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Is $99,950 really 'relatively affordable' for most people though?

I meant in relation to the Christie of course.
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post #189 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 10:39 AM
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Is $99,950 really 'relatively affordable' for most people though?

Also wouldn't it be better, from an alignment viewpoint, to house both projectors inside the same chassis? It would negate the need for a complex mounting apparatus.

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Well if you are looking for an inexpensive light cannon 4000+ 4k laser engine projector as a holdover, and are happy with both its strengths and weaknesses, the BenQ LK990 at only $8000 is indubitably an excellent choice. In fact, I am not aware of any other projector that ticks all those boxes at that price point

The new TI chip is already featuring in BARCO's new Series 4 range of projectors: https://www.cinionic.com/series4-laser-projectors

I expect to be seeing it in other projectors as well in about one year's time

This new TI 0.98" Native 4K 3-Chip DLP Chipset is rated as having the same IDENTICAL native ON/OFF contrast performance as the TI 0.95” HD 1080p resolution 3-Chip DLP ‘Darkchip3’ Chipset that is being used in the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS

Wherein, specifically with respect to BOTH the native ON/OFF contrast is rated 2,300:1. This is with the TI reference design using an F2.8 internal iris. If the projector design reduces the internal iris to F4.0 the native ON/OFF contrast is increased by circa 70%, so circa 3,910:1

Of course 2,300:1 - 3,910:1 in itself is not very high ON/OFF contrast, but for DLP this is a very good 'starting point' and significantly higher than 500:1 - 800:1! Wherein, the wizardry that SIM2 has employed with respect to the HDR DUO PLUS significantly increases this and thereby achieves the projector's high contrast performance.

Meaning that if SIM2 were to replace the existing 0.95” HD resolution Darkchip3 chipset with the new 0.98” Native 4K resolution chipset the contrast performance would be the same identical high contrast performance as the HDR DUO PLUS but with Native 4K resolution! And given the both chipsets are almost the same identical size swapping them should be very easy from an engineering perspective

I would love to see SIM2 do this, because this would be without a doubt the best performing Native 4K resolution projector in the world, second only to the Christie!

That is exactly how i felt about the 990. Its not perfect by any means, but its value for its price is definitely there. And I was able to get one brand new for only $6400

Would love to see something along the lines of the Barco Balder CS with this chip in the future. Would love to see more peoples thoughts on the Barco home theater projectors in general, there is almost no information or reviews about these projectors that I can find. The idea of a projector that comes with a cinemascope lens just seems very attractive to me.
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That is exactly how i felt about the 990. Its not perfect by any means, but its value for its price is definitely there.

Would love to see something along the lines of the Barco Balder CS with this chip in the future. Would love to see more peoples thoughts on the Barco home theater projectors, there is almost no information or reviews about these projectors that I can find. The idea of a projector that comes with a cinemascope lens just seems very attractive to me.
The Achilles Heal of the Barco home theater projectors is the same as almost all DLPs, namely the low ADL contrast and black level performance. Both the Christie and the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS fix this by using novel technologies to significantly increase the low ADL contrast peformance.

By the way, the Barco Loki uses exactly the same chipset as the BenQ LK990 and SIM2 NERO4S, measures circa 500:1 native ON/OFF contrast, and costs $90,000

So Barco really need to be invest R&D resources into significantly increasing ON/OFF contrast performance as well or else this Achilles Heal will remain...

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Also wouldn't it be better, from an alignment viewpoint, to house both projectors inside the same chassis? It would negate the need for a complex mounting apparatus.
Ideally yes. Practical? Not really. That would entail a complete product redesign, as opposed to simply swapping out the chipset

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The Achilles Heal of the Barco home theater projectors is the same as almost all DLPs, namely the low ADL contrast and black level performance. Both the Christie and the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS fix this by using novel technologies to significantly increase the low ADL contrast peformance.

By the way, the Barco Loki uses exactly the same chipset as the BenQ LK990 and SIM2 NERO4S, measures circa 500:1 native ON/OFF contrast, and costs $90,000

So Barco really need to be invest R&D resources into significantly increasing ON/OFF contrast performance as well or else this Achilles Heal will remain...

But just moving to the new chip would help their current weakpoint right?

I feel like once more people become aware that 8k is a novelty at best, companies will hopefully put their sights on improving other aspects of their projectors' performances.

Or maybe all of us enthusiasts will be rocking microLED walls before then.

This technology makes me wonder how much R&D these companies are still willing to put into projector development.
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post #194 of 236 Old 05-09-2019, 01:32 PM
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Ideally yes. Practical? Not really. That would entail a complete product redesign, as opposed to simply swapping out the chipset
I can't believe it would be a stretch, or very expensive, to literally bond the two together. Or even better, alter the mould to integrate the two units, then put the current innards in there.

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SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS | Review &amp; Discussions

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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Just to make absolutely clear the SIM2 NERO4S DUO is not a 4K version of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, so the latter is not "the HD version" of the former. These are two completely different products with MASSIVELY different video performance. So don't be expecting to see anything like as good overall video performance as the HDR DUO PLUS if you go and check out a demo of the NERO4S DUO



You can find the full product details for the NERO4S here: http://www.sim2.com/home/en/content/nero-4s-uhd-hdr



In short, it is a 6000 lumens rated lamp-based projector, which uses the same TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset as is found within the entry level OPTOMA and BENQ projectors.



The BenQ LK990 projector features EXACTLY the same identical video chipset, with a 6,000 lumens LASER (not lamp) light engine... and costs only circa 8,000 bucks. The SIM2 NERO4S DUO costs circa 60,000 bucks and a singular NERO4S costs circa 30,000 bucks.



You can find the full product details for the BenQ LK990 here: https://business-display.benq.com/en...k990/spec.html



The attraction of the BenQ LK990 is the high brightness and laser light engine, at a low cost, wherein the low cost helps to offset the very poor low ADL contrast performance; wherein it should be noted that this chipset has a native ON/OFF contrast of circa 500:1 - 800:1



Let me repeat that... The native ON/OFF contrast performance of this video chipset measures circa 500:1 - 800:1. Yes, seriously.



It is interesting to note that the 'reviews' to which are being referred here, one of which includes absolutely zero measurements, and the other includes a full array of all measurements except only for (conveniently) omitting any and all contrast measurements.... Mmmmm, I wonder why?



The long and short of it is that I stake my professional reputation on being completely honest and impartial regarding all A/V equipment at all times. Consequently, I will not lie and I will not sugar-coat the truth either.



Wherein, the fact of the matter is that if you are looking for a typical very high brightness, very low ON/OFF contrast performing DLP projector, with single-chip DLP associated Rainbow Effect, then by all means check out these various projectors that all use the same TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset; of which the BenQ LK990 probably offers the best value for money.



But to be perfectly honest, TI have just released a far superior chipset, which very considerably outperforms this 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset. Specifically, it is a 0.98" NATIVE 4K (not 4M-Pixel-Shift) resolution 3-Chip DLP (no Rainbow Effect) DMD chipset with 3-4 times greater and hence very considerably superior native ON/OFF contrast performance.



So I ask the question...is there really a market for expensive, as in costing 30,000 - 60,000 bucks, projectors that use this TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset, what with its 500:1 - 800:1 Native ON/OFF contrast and Rainbows? When there is now this much, much better chipset available? Not really.



If SIM2 are smart they will ditch the TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset with respect to their more expensive projectors, and replace it with the new TI 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset.



Wherein, they could so very easily simply take the existing SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, which currently features an almost identical size chipset, being 0.95" in size, and replace this with the new 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset... And BOOM! You'd have essentially the same absolutely incredible video performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, but with the NATIVE 4K resolution that so many folks very clearly want!



Now THIS I would be EXTREMELY excited about and without a doubt SIM2 would sell these by the bucket-load!



The NERO4S singular or DUO for 30,000 or 60,000 bucks with its 500:1 - 800:1 native ON/OFF contrast TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip 'Rainbow Effect' DLP DMD chipset?



No thanks




I’m not sure how the LK990 got into this conversation, but I see your point and it makes sense.

The LK990 was measured at about 1,000:1 native and 4,500:1 Dynamic. I know it’s not a dramatic difference but it’s really not as bad as the numbers sound when viewed.

Which two reviews are you referring to? I think Javs’ review is the one that got those numbers above and they were posted by him. I posted contrast numbers on the LK970 but not the LK990 yet due to its bad tracking with BC enabled which I’ve only recently I think stabilized a little. I’m hoping to grab some numbers soon, but I just don’t have the time you folks seem to have. This isn’t my full time job any longer.
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I’m not sure how the LK990 got into this conversation, but I see your point and it makes sense.

The LK990 was measured at about 1,000:1 native and 4,500:1 Dynamic. I know it’s not a dramatic difference but it’s really not as bad as the numbers sound when viewed.

Which two reviews are you referring to? I think Javs’ review is the one that got those numbers above and they were posted by him. I posted contrast numbers on the LK970 but not the LK990 yet due to its bad tracking with BC enabled which I’ve only recently I think stabilized a little. I’m hoping to grab some numbers soon, but I just don’t have the time you folks seem to have. This isn’t my full time job any longer.
Dont like speaking for people, but I think his point was there is no reason to spend 30k+ on something like the Barco's or the Nero S 4k, the 4k "sibling" of this Sim2 hdr duo when the Lk990 will give you almost the exact same image for less than 1/3 of the price.

He was actually giving the 990 some credit imo. He said it fills the 4k Laser light cannon niche at by far the best price, and thus a great value.
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I’m not sure how the LK990 got into this conversation, but I see your point and it makes sense.

The LK990 was measured at about 1,000:1 native and 4,500:1 Dynamic. I know it’s not a dramatic difference but it’s really not as bad as the numbers sound when viewed.

Which two reviews are you referring to? I think Javs’ review is the one that got those numbers above and they were posted by him. I posted contrast numbers on the LK970 but not the LK990 yet due to its bad tracking with BC enabled which I’ve only recently I think stabilized a little. I’m hoping to grab some numbers soon, but I just don’t have the time you folks seem to have. This isn’t my full time job any longer.
To clarify, my point is that all of the SIM2 NERO4S ($30,000), SIM2 NERO4S DUO ($60,000), BARCO LOKI ($90,000), and BENQ LK990 ($8,000) contain what is essentially the same identical TI 1-Chip DLP chipset. So why the hell would anyone want to consider buying the SIM2 NERO4S ($30,000), SIM2 NERO4S DUO ($60,000) or BARCO LOKI ($90,000) when you can buy a BENQ LK990 for only $8,000? And especially considering that the BENQ LK990 is also LASER light source, but both the SIM2 NERO4S amd SIM2 NERO4S DUO are lamp light source.

Hence, out of all projectors that currently incorporate this particular TI chipset, and taking into consideration both the strengths and weaknesses of the chipset versus value-for-money, without a doubt the BENQ LK990, costing only $8000, is the one to buy. All things considered you'd be nuts to consider buying a SIM2 NERO4S ($30,000), SIM2 NERO4S DUO ($60,000) or BARCO LOKI ($90,000) when you can have a BENQ LK990 for only $8000

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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Dont like speaking for people, but I think his point was there is no reason to spend 30k+ on something like the Barco's or the Nero S 4k, the 4k "sibling" of this Sim2 hdr duo when the Lk990 will give you almost the exact same image for less than 1/3 of the price.

He was actually giving the 990 some credit imo. He said it fills the 4k Laser light cannon niche at by far the best price, and thus a great value.
Precisely

And quite frankly it shows up the likes of the SIM2 NERO4S, SIM2 NERO4S DUO, and BARCO LOKI as being massively overpriced!

In fact, the BARCO LOKI has kinda already become long-in-the-tooth given you can now purchase a BARCO SP4K-12 for circa $50,000 which is almost half the price of the BARCO LOKI, and uses the new 0.98" Native 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP chipset, with 4-5 times the native ON/OFF contrast performance, 11,000 lumens light output, and a full RGB laser light source (Red, Green and Blue laser diodes) with reportedly 98.5% coverage of BT.2020 color gamut! It's also $10,000 cheaper than the SIM2 NERO4S DUO

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post #198 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 04:01 AM
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Barco’s using 0.9 DMD not 0.67 DMD chip


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Barco’s using 0.9 DMD not 0.67 DMD chip


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Which unit are you referring to? The SP4K-12 uses the 0.98" DMD: https://www.barco.com/en/product/sp4k-12#specs
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post #200 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
In fact, the BARCO LOKI has kinda already become long-in-the-tooth given you can now purchase a BARCO SP4K-12 for circa $50,000 which is almost half the price of the BARCO LOKI, and uses the new 0.98" Native 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP chipset,
That must be quite a new chipset - I can't even find it listed on the TI website. Kudos to TI for finally getting a native 4K DMD out the door, but isn't 0.98" fairly large and result in a requirement for larger optics? Fine above the $50k price point, but might present more of a challenge below the $20k price point.

I just wish these guys would figure out a similar localised dimming system to the Christie. I know Christie's exact method might be covered by a few patents, but there must be more than one way to skin that particular cat.
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Barco’s using 0.9 DMD not 0.67 DMD chip
Semantics. It's simply the 0.9" commercial/professional variation of the 0.67" chipset with the same architecture, specifications and performance. Hence I don't differentiate the two. The Loki is merely a rebadged and tweaked Barco F90


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That must be quite a new chipset - I can't even find it listed on the TI website.
It's brand new

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Kudos to TI for finally getting a native 4K DMD out the door
Well, technically TI released a native 4K 3-Chip DLP DMD years ago, namely the 1.43" Cinema Chip; however, until very recently this was restricted under exclusive license to supply Barco, Christie, and NEC for incorporation into their D-Cinema projectors.

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but isn't 0.98" fairly large and result in a requirement for larger optics? Fine above the $50k price point, but might present more of a challenge below the $20k price point.
Not necessarily... The HD 1080p resolution 3 Chip DLP DMD used within both the SIM2 Super Lumis and HDR DUO PLUS is 0.95" so swapping this out for the new 0.98" should be easy, without requiring larger optics... And the SIM2 Super Lumis is priced at $30,000

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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
you can now purchase a BARCO SP4K-12 for circa $50,000 which is almost half the price of the BARCO LOKI, and uses the new 0.98" Native 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP chipset, with 4-5 times the native ON/OFF contrast performance, 11,000 lumens light output, and a full RGB laser light source (Red, Green and Blue laser diodes) with reportedly 98.5% coverage of BT.2020 color gamut! It's also $10,000 cheaper than the SIM2 NERO4S DUO
I am eagerly waiting for you to vote with your wallet and pick a projector for your bunker build :-)

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post #204 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 07:39 AM
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Semantics. It's simply the 0.9" commercial/professional variation of the 0.67" chipset with the same architecture, specifications and performance. Hence I don't differentiate the two. The Loki is merely a rebadged and tweaked Barco F90





The 0.67 are used in the Medea and it’s lower the Balder/loki in aspect that they used the 0.9 DMD






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post #205 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Just to make absolutely clear the SIM2 NERO4S DUO is not a 4K version of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, so the latter is not "the HD version" of the former. These are two completely different products with MASSIVELY different video performance. So don't be expecting to see anything like as good overall video performance as the HDR DUO PLUS if you go and check out a demo of the NERO4S DUO

You can find the full product details for the NERO4S here: http://www.sim2.com/home/en/content/nero-4s-uhd-hdr

In short, it is a 6000 lumens rated lamp-based projector, which uses the same TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset as is found within the entry level OPTOMA and BENQ projectors.

The BenQ LK990 projector features EXACTLY the same identical video chipset, with a 6,000 lumens LASER (not lamp) light engine... and costs only circa 8,000 bucks. The SIM2 NERO4S DUO costs circa 60,000 bucks and a singular NERO4S costs circa 30,000 bucks.

You can find the full product details for the BenQ LK990 here: https://business-display.benq.com/en...k990/spec.html

The attraction of the BenQ LK990 is the high brightness and laser light engine, at a low cost, wherein the low cost helps to offset the very poor low ADL contrast performance; wherein it should be noted that this chipset has a native ON/OFF contrast of circa 500:1 - 800:1

Let me repeat that... The native ON/OFF contrast performance of this video chipset measures circa 500:1 - 800:1. Yes, seriously.

It is interesting to note that the 'reviews' to which are being referred here, one of which includes absolutely zero measurements, and the other includes a full array of all measurements except only for (conveniently) omitting any and all contrast measurements.... Mmmmm, I wonder why?

The long and short of it is that I stake my professional reputation on being completely honest and impartial regarding all A/V equipment at all times. Consequently, I will not lie and I will not sugar-coat the truth either.

Wherein, the fact of the matter is that if you are looking for a typical very high brightness, very low ON/OFF contrast performing DLP projector, with single-chip DLP associated Rainbow Effect, then by all means check out these various projectors that all use the same TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset; of which the BenQ LK990 probably offers the best value for money.

But to be perfectly honest, TI have just released a far superior chipset, which very considerably outperforms this 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset. Specifically, it is a 0.98" NATIVE 4K (not 4M-Pixel-Shift) resolution 3-Chip DLP (no Rainbow Effect) DMD chipset with 3-4 times greater and hence very considerably superior native ON/OFF contrast performance.

So I ask the question...is there really a market for expensive, as in costing 30,000 - 60,000 bucks, projectors that use this TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset, what with its 500:1 - 800:1 Native ON/OFF contrast and Rainbows? When there is now this much, much better chipset available? Not really.

If SIM2 are smart they will ditch the TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip DMD DLP chipset with respect to their more expensive projectors, and replace it with the new TI 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset.

Wherein, they could so very easily simply take the existing SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, which currently features an almost identical size chipset, being 0.95" in size, and replace this with the new 0.98" NATIVE 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP DMD chipset... And BOOM! You'd have essentially the same absolutely incredible video performance of the SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS, but with the NATIVE 4K resolution that so many folks very clearly want!

Now THIS I would be EXTREMELY excited about and without a doubt SIM2 would sell these by the bucket-load!

The NERO4S singular or DUO for 30,000 or 60,000 bucks with its 500:1 - 800:1 native ON/OFF contrast TI 0.67” 4M-Pixel-Shift Resolution 1-Chip 'Rainbow Effect' DLP DMD chipset?

No thanks

It would seem the unknown on the NEUO4S DUO is how much it outperforms other projectors that use the same chipset. The Sim2 Duo Plus, significantly outperforms other Darkchip 3 projectors. It's not clear how much of the supporting Duo technology they have used in the NEUO Duo. But I'm sure they will move to higher contrast 4K chipsets as soon as they can.
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Semantics. It's simply the 0.9" commercial/professional variation of the 0.67" chipset with the same architecture, specifications and performance. Hence I don't differentiate the two. The Loki is merely a rebadged and tweaked Barco F90
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The 0.67 are used in the Medea and it’s lower the Balder/loki in aspect that they used the 0.9 DMD
The 0.9" commercial/professional chipset is 4096 x 2160, the 0.67" domestic chipset is 3840 x 2160.

Aside from this, the architecture, specifications and performance is the same, including both 500:1 - 800:1 native ON/OFF contrast and single-chip DLP (with RBE)

So like I said, you are splitting hairs


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post #207 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 08:58 AM
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Here's what a 1080p dual projector is up against -- a lot of marketing hype. It's not up against just 4K, it's now up against 8K. Good luck!

https://www.avsforum.com/with-8k-tvs...etter-picture/
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post #208 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's what a 1080p dual projector is up against -- a lot of marketing hype. It's not up against just 4K, it's now up against 8K. Good luck!

https://www.avsforum.com/with-8k-tvs...etter-picture/
Well it's lucky that everyone's seating, and all their seating, is not more than 6-8 feet in front of their screen, isn't it?

Oh, wait...



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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Dont like speaking for people, but I think his point was there is no reason to spend 30k+ on something like the Barco's or the Nero S 4k, the 4k "sibling" of this Sim2 hdr duo when the Lk990 will give you almost the exact same image for less than 1/3 of the price.



He was actually giving the 990 some credit imo. He said it fills the 4k Laser light cannon niche at by far the best price, and thus a great value.
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To clarify, my point is that all of the SIM2 NERO4S ($30,000), SIM2 NERO4S DUO ($60,000), BARCO LOKI ($90,000), and BENQ LK990 ($8,000) contain what is essentially the same identical TI 1-Chip DLP chipset. So why the hell would anyone want to consider buying the SIM2 NERO4S ($30,000), SIM2 NERO4S DUO ($60,000) or BARCO LOKI ($90,000) when you can buy a BENQ LK990 for only $8,000? And especially considering that the BENQ LK990 is also LASER light source, but both the SIM2 NERO4S amd SIM2 NERO4S DUO are lamp light source.



Hence, out of all projectors that currently incorporate this particular TI chipset, and taking into consideration both the strengths and weaknesses of the chipset versus value-for-money, without a doubt the BENQ LK990, costing only $8000, is the one to buy. All things considered you'd be nuts to consider buying a SIM2 NERO4S ($30,000), SIM2 NERO4S DUO ($60,000) or BARCO LOKI ($90,000) when you can have a BENQ LK990 for only $8000



Precisely



And quite frankly it shows up the likes of the SIM2 NERO4S, SIM2 NERO4S DUO, and BARCO LOKI as being massively overpriced!



In fact, the BARCO LOKI has kinda already become long-in-the-tooth given you can now purchase a BARCO SP4K-12 for circa $50,000 which is almost half the price of the BARCO LOKI, and uses the new 0.98" Native 4K resolution 3-Chip DLP chipset, with 4-5 times the native ON/OFF contrast performance, 11,000 lumens light output, and a full RGB laser light source (Red, Green and Blue laser diodes) with reportedly 98.5% coverage of BT.2020 color gamut! It's also $10,000 cheaper than the SIM2 NERO4S DUO



Yes I understood all that. Hence the reason I said:
Quote:
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I’m not sure how the LK990 got into this conversation, but I see your point and it makes sense.........


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........Aside from this, the architecture, specifications and performance is the same, including both 500:1 - 800:1 native ON/OFF contrast and single-chip DLP (with RBE)......




Good thing the LK990 measures above that at 1,000+:1.
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post #210 of 236 Old 05-10-2019, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Good thing the LK990 measures above that at 1,000+:1.
That's the native ON/OFF contrast performance of the projector including its lens and optical block... The native ON/OFF contrast performance of the chipset itself is 500:1 - 800:1

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