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post #181 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Your HT is freaking AMAZING!!!
Thank you so much!!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #182 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 11:40 AM
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You guys are killing me!!

I've been living with the system now for a few months (recall I had months of technical issues after we moved into the house in May...)

I hope the bass lives up to you all! I don't have the ULF that I'm sure Art has (I don't know how many subs you have Ash) with just 4 Seatons doing the ULF... I may be adding 2 more F18s but I'd like your thoughts on things..

None the less, it's going to be a lot of fun!

I don't know the cubic footage of your theater, but I would not be surprised at all if you have as much bass as the next guy. If your F18's are only doing the heavy lifting from 40Hz south (low pass filter) and the Wisdom subs are doing everything above that (high pass filter), you may have all of the low end grunt you want. The difference you might experience if you compare your bass to Art's is the tactile effect in his room based upon his room being on the 2nd floor and not on concrete as you are. Short of chair transducers (which I personally abhor - and I have heard them all - at least all of the well known ones), it will be pretty difficult for you to achieve the level of tactile response Art does. But more subs might move you closer in that direction - but you will be hard pressed to EVER exactly replicate it.
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post #183 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
You guys are killing me!!

I've been living with the system now for a few months (recall I had months of technical issues after we moved into the house in May...)

I hope the bass lives up to you all! I don't have the ULF that I'm sure Art has (I don't know how many subs you have Ash) with just 4 Seatons doing the ULF... I may be adding 2 more F18s but I'd like your thoughts on things..

None the less, it's going to be a lot of fun!
Check out the red dashed line on the Bass EQ chart for the pre-EQ performance (not peaks, more like a composite average) - there's a rolloff starting at 45 to 50 Hz so I'd hesitate saying that this is some sort of ULF reference.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post59177802

Don't get me wrong, it's still a fun movie. But after watching a few times over the last week on Apple TV (Atmos track), that's my impression.
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post #184 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
...The difference you might experience if you compare your bass to Art's is the tactile effect in his room based upon his room being on the 2nd floor and not on concrete as you are. Short of chair transducers (which I personally abhor - and I have heard them all - at least all of the well known ones),...
I absolutely can not live with my Aurora Shakers. Adds so much to the experience and just “feels” like the right amount of “Big Bass”. Even my Wife digs it. I can’t see how people have platforms that vibrate them all over the place but a little tactile from shakers might just do the trick.

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post #185 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 02:08 PM
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I absolutely can not live with my Aurora Shakers. Adds so much to the experience and just “feels” like the right amount of “Big Bass”. Even my Wife digs it. I can’t see how people have platforms that vibrate them all over the place but a little tactile from shakers might just do the trick.
Our theater is upstairs. I have 8 Seaton F18's in 3400cf of space and can easily reach 125dB with full low end frequency sweeps prior to any kind of audible or easily measurable distortion. I have all of the tactile response I can stand - and have worked at reducing it. It is about as natural as you can imagine as the entire structure moves as the scene dictates - walls & ceiling [double drywall/green glue] and floor [flooring under-layment]. An earthquake in a movie (e.g. San Andreas) is an earthquake in our theater.

That's the thing about us humans - we all have different opinions on most everything. I know lots of folks in your camp. I just don't happen to be one of them. Each time I mention this to someone, their response is "you have not experienced it in MY theater." So I go visit and really can not stand it. COMPLETELY takes me out of the movie. Just not my deal.
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post #186 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 02:27 PM
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Our theater is upstairs. I have 8 Seaton F18's in 3400cf of space and can easily reach 125dB with full low end frequency sweeps prior to any kind of audible or easily measurable distortion. I have all of the tactile response I can stand - and have worked at reducing it. It is about as natural as you can imagine as the entire structure moves as the scene dictates - walls & ceiling [double drywall/green glue] and floor [flooring under-layment]. An earthquake in a movie (e.g. San Andreas) is an earthquake in our theater.

That's the thing about us humans - we all have different opinions on most everything. I know lots of folks in your camp. I just don't happen to be one of them. Each time I mention this to someone, their response is "you have not experienced it in MY theater." So I go visit and really can not stand it. COMPLETELY takes me out of the movie. Just not my deal.
Yeah, that's ALOT of bass! My wife would NOT approve. I agree though, everyone likes what they like. I look at some people setups in smaller rooms with a 9.8.6 config and I be like, But a BOSS system or Shakers might be the ticket here. Fairly inexpensive...

My Media Room
AVR 1-Yamaha RX-A3050 (7.2.4), AVR 2 Pioneer VSX-815-K(Used for 4ch Amp TF+TR)
Mains-Polk Audio RTi8, Center-Polk Audio CSi5, Surrounds-Polk Audio RTi4, Ceilings-Micca M-8C, Sub 1- UM18-22 (4cu.ft DIY) - iNuke 6000DSP, Sub 2-Klipsch RW12D
Projector-BenQ 3550 4K, Screen-110" Silver Ticket STR-169110, TV-Vizio P-65 4K
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post #187 of 203 Old 02-13-2020, 07:04 PM
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Yeah, that's ALOT of bass! My wife would NOT approve. I agree though, everyone likes what they like. I look at some people setups in smaller rooms with a 9.8.6 config and I be like, But a BOSS system or Shakers might be the ticket here. Fairly inexpensive...
It is a lot of bass but it is not about playing loud. It is about extension (5dB down at 7Hz), mid bass slam, and headroom. I don't have the bass level set in my room set any higher (relative to the other speakers in the room than any room I calibrate - even if that room has 1 sub.

As for 9.8.6 in a small room? Depends on your definition of "small". Large speaker count rooms provide "incremental improvements" in object location specificity over rooms with fewer speakers - and hence, a slightly improved sense of envelopment In a month or so, I will have the opportunity to compare 7.x.4 to 11.x.10 in the same room (I would call it a reasonably sized room). I will tell you then how much, if any, improvement I can actually hear between the two. But I do agree that the larger the room, the need for more speakers increases - if one wants the best possible immersion experience
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post #188 of 203 Old 02-14-2020, 03:58 PM
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Check out the red dashed line on the Bass EQ chart for the pre-EQ performance (not peaks, more like a composite average) - there's a rolloff starting at 45 to 50 Hz so I'd hesitate saying that this is some sort of ULF reference.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post59177802

Don't get me wrong, it's still a fun movie. But after watching a few times over the last week on Apple TV (Atmos track), that's my impression.
It definitely could use a lift below 20Hz, after adding all the Seaton 18s a few months ago though I've not used my presets as much. I promised myself that I'd wait till my evening at Jeff's to watch it though.

Art
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post #189 of 203 Old 02-14-2020, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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... I promised myself that I'd wait till my evening at Jeff's to watch it though.

Art
Me, too!
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Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #190 of 203 Old 02-14-2020, 07:05 PM
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I started watching it got in about 15 to 20 minutes and turned it off. It was my second movie of the night and I said I want to watch this from the beginning and through in one sitting. I PMed Jeff and asked if he had seen it. It's all I can do not to watch it but if the rest is anything like the beginning it is perfect for a movie night in a top notch theater.

Art

We saw it at the theater and loved it. We're having another couple over to watch it tomorrow night to see it on our system in 4K UHD. I'm looking forward to a second watch.
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post #191 of 203 Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM
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All this hype for a 14.5” screen. Unbelievable.

2.40, correct? I assume 16x9 would have been too tall for the room at that width (accounting for line of sight, etc.).

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post #192 of 203 Old Today, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct. No way to get a 16:9 in due to height....

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #193 of 203 Old Today, 08:26 AM
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Jeff, as I looked at the photos Ash just took of your Panamorph DCR lens mounted with your Sony VW5000 (see picture below), it got me to thinking. I have heard from folks using port glass vs using no port glass at all. From the photo it looks like you used port glass - what glass did you choose to use?
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Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 8 7LCRs; 10 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #194 of 203 Old Today, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, as I looked at the photos Ash just took of your Panamorph DCR lens mounted with your Sony VW5000 (see picture below), it got me to thinking. I have heard from folks using port glass vs using no port glass at all. From the photo it looks like you used port glass - what glass did you choose to use?
I do have glass. Dennis spec'd it.I'll have to look at my plans. Mainly used for some noise control from PJ room.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #195 of 203 Old Today, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, as I looked at the photos Ash just took of your Panamorph DCR lens mounted with your Sony VW5000 (see picture below), it got me to thinking. I have heard from folks using port glass vs using no port glass at all. From the photo it looks like you used port glass - what glass did you choose to use?
My spec only says, ... ‘port glass from ‘Edmunds Optics’.

I’m sure if you search their site, you’ll find it.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #196 of 203 Old Today, 08:48 AM
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My spec only says, ... ‘port glass from ‘Edmunds Optics’.



I’m sure if you search their site, you’ll find it.


Same here.

For my theater redo, I’m being recommended to use glass from following place. https://www.portwindowglass.com/.


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post #197 of 203 Old Today, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Jeff, as I looked at the photos Ash just took of your Panamorph DCR lens mounted with your Sony VW5000 (see picture below), it got me to thinking. I have heard from folks using port glass vs using no port glass at all. From the photo it looks like you used port glass - what glass did you choose to use?
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I do have glass. Dennis spec'd it.I'll have to look at my plans. Mainly used for some noise control from PJ room.
Steve,
Picture was given to my by Jeff...
In my setup as you will see in the DCR thread, I have a no port glass.
This is because I have a hush box connected to the back wall of the theater and it vents to the attic.
So for air circulation - air gets sucked in from the port into the hush box and up into the attic (Dennis Erskine Design also).
But I loved the way Jeff is set up - now off course he has a equipment room behind the back wall of the theater with adequate cooling (split air conditioner) and ducting etc...
So mine is a compromise because I wanted a Lobby at the entrance and no two glasses in front of projector lens..
In very quiet rooms which Dennis designs - If I sit at the back row - with the 5000 being quite noisy and the exhaust fan running (which also makes noise) - I would rather have a setup like Jeff.
Actually If I want, I can modify my hush box also in which case I could put a vent in the bottom of the box for air suction.
So either way it is a compromise - two pieces of glass in front of lens - or sound from the fans and projector - you pick your poison.
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post #198 of 203 Old Today, 11:00 AM
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Edmund has several nice options but they have coated extremely high transmissive optical glass 1mm thick ,just a little thicker than one of Jeff's wine glasses (what I used).

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post #199 of 203 Old Today, 11:30 AM
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The site I referenced has 6, 10, and 12mm glass. Claims 6mm and 10mm has over 99 percent light transmission. Heard (perhaps incorrectly) that Keith Yates recently used the 12mm in a theater.


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post #200 of 203 Old Today, 12:06 PM
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The site I referenced has 6, 10, and 12mm glass. Claims 6mm and 10mm has over 99 percent light transmission. Heard (perhaps incorrectly) that Keith Yates recently used the 12mm in a theater.


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Wow, 1/2" thick glass. Frequently I see speced two panes thick but I wonder if that added thickness really helps sound isolation. If Keith says it though I'd go with it. My rack is around the corner and more comes through the rack than through the glass for me so it's moot.
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post #201 of 203 Old Today, 12:31 PM
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Correct. No way to get a 16:9 in due to height....
Thanks. I have a 12.5’ wide 16x9 screen (slightly bigger than a 14.5’ wide 2.40) with a Superlumis projector with Stewart perf. 130 and I don’t believe that is anywhere close to enough luminosity for satisfactory HDR. How satisfied are you with the luminosity (fL’s) from your screen & projector combo? What made you decide on the Sony vs a Superlumis given the above?
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post #202 of 203 Old Today, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Honestly, I never considered the Superlumis. So many here at AVS had the Sony that it was an easy choice - with so many users. I’d also seen the Sony many times at shows and various home theaters. I knew what I was getting. I have it with a 1.0 gain micro perf snd think it plenty bright. Sure it comes up short on HDR but, to me, I’m still happy and think it throws a gorgeous picture.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #203 of 203 Old Today, 01:26 PM
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Thanks. I have a 12.5’ wide 16x9 screen (slightly bigger than a 14.5’ wide 2.40) with a Superlumis projector with Stewart perf. 130 and I don’t believe that is anywhere close to enough luminosity for satisfactory HDR. How satisfied are you with the luminosity (fL’s) from your screen & projector combo? What made you decide on the Sony vs a Superlumis given the above?
Not to mention the Superlumis has a lower sequential contrast and is only HD resolution. Can't see any reason to have gone that direction.

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