My 'Bland' New Theater: JBL Synthesis... With Help From My Many Friends Here. - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Apologies if this was answered and I missed it. Jumping back to the Edmund optics question - this is what Dennis spec'd for my Port Glass

I used 3mm thick. Prices are very reasonable.

Cheers,
I would estimate my glass at 3mm as well.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #242 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 06:10 AM
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Dennis Erskine told me that - a engineered room is like a fish tank - one hole and all the water drains out.
So this dilemma about using a port glass or not has always been a head scratcher for me?
To build a perfect room with the weakest point a 3mm Port Glass OR having a gaping hole at the Port Hole...
In my case although I have a hole at my port (no port glass) the way the hush box is constructed is sound proofed (but is it?)
Dunno what is best and how it affects audio.
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post #243 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Dennis Erskine told me that - a engineered room is like a fish tank - one hole and all the water drains out.
So this dilemma about using a port glass or not has always been a head scratcher for me?
To build a perfect room with the weakest point a 3mm Port Glass OR having a gaping hole at the Port Hole...
In my case although I have a hole at my port (no port glass) the way the hush box is constructed is sound proofed (but is it?)
Dunno what is best and how it affects audio.
Hey Ash


In my case, that 3mm glass helps with high frequencies (e.g. amp fans, PJ fan, slight hum from isolation transformer) that I might hear in the theater... but the equipment room is part of that theater room proper ‘fish tank’ as the equipment room is also decoupled and using a heavy acoustical door. So, the dynamic sounds and bass, etc that push through that port glass is corralled and contained in the equipment room.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #244 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Hey Ash


In my case, that 3mm glass helps with high frequencies (e.g. amp fans, PJ fan, slight hum from isolation transformer) that I might hear in the theater... but the equipment room is part of that theater room proper ‘fish tank’ as the equipment room is also decoupled and using a heavy acoustical door. So, the dynamic sounds and bass, etc that push through that port glass is corralled and contained in the equipment room.
I was thinking about that after my post - you do have the perfect implementation.
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post #245 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking about that after my post - you do have the perfect implementation.
HA! I wouldn't say 'perfect' but I planned as well as I could, but there are compromises - like all else!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #246 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Dennis Erskine told me that - a engineered room is like a fish tank - one hole and all the water drains out.

So this dilemma about using a port glass or not has always been a head scratcher for me?

To build a perfect room with the weakest point a 3mm Port Glass OR having a gaping hole at the Port Hole...

In my case although I have a hole at my port (no port glass) the way the hush box is constructed is sound proofed (but is it?)

Dunno what is best and how it affects audio.


I completely agree with Dennis’ analogy. Erskine (and Steve Kujala) designed and constructed my room. Because of an issue with my builder, Steve wasn’t able to run HVAC supply into my projector room like the plans called for. (Wasnt his fault at all). So he had to scramble for solution and had to make large cut out in my projector room door where my equipment rack is. Rack can produce 60 dB and it sure finds its way through!

We are redoing room shortly to move equipment to a storage room to isolate noise. Isolating projector room and using 10mm projector glass from company I cited.


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post #247 of 269 Old 02-27-2020, 08:34 AM
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HA! I wouldn't say 'perfect' but I planned as well as I could, but there are compromises - like all else!
Like two glasses - in front of the Lens
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post #248 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 10:50 AM
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As suspected, not a single poster on this thread has performed an A/B comparison. Yet opinions abound.

If anyone has, I’m all ears.
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post #249 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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As suspected, not a single poster on this thread has performed an A/B comparison. Yet opinions abound.

If anyone has, I’m all ears.
Not a single poster was looking for a 1080P projector.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #250 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by freakyguy666 View Post
As suspected, not a single poster on this thread has performed an A/B comparison. Yet opinions abound.

If anyone has, I’m all ears.
No offense, but I have seen Bland at Cedia a couple of times. Even if he hasn't seen the Superlumis itself, he is well aware of the capabilities of DLP (either 3 chip or single). That includes pjs from $500 to $500k.

Not sure why you are beating this dead horse. This Sim might be slightly better than the 5000, but at some point I am sure the Bland was satisfied going with Sony and stopped auditioning.

And before you ask, I haven't seen the Superlumis itself or the Duo (I don't think). I have seen Sims in the past and they are nice. Outside of the Eclipse, I haven't seen a DLP yet that would satisfy my desire for high on/off contrast.
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post #251 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 01:28 PM
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So what are the actual seating distances from each row & screen size so we may confirm whether or not my assumption was correct?

I didn’t recommend anything. I actually asked him a question, which you clearly missed. Specifically, I asked for his reasoning in selecting the 5000, because I was in the same boat and opted for a SuperLumis. The answer seems to be he wanted 4k (despite the seating distance) and therefore never performed an A/B comparison. I would venture to guess he’s one of many who did so which explains a lot.
11'5" front row 17' 5" second row both are within the range that I can see the difference between both 1080 projection and a 4K projection systems as well as the difference between a 1080 source and 4K source on a 4K projection system. A superlumis is 1080, the chipset is the same as The Christie thus no need to A/B for this parameter. Had SIM2 opted for a 4K chip then this changes everything and I would have certainly opted for a comparison.

I like high ANSI I don't know anyone who doesn't yet in the balance sheet superior low end ,pixel structure visibility and fill factor as well as lamp output decay and concomitant frequent gray scale and color calibration requirements favored heavy the Sony 5000.

Art

Last edited by Art Sonneborn; 02-29-2020 at 02:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #252 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 01:45 PM
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11'5" front row 17' 5" second row both are within the range that I can see the difference between both 1080 projection and a 4K projection system as well as the difference between a 1080 source and 4K source on a 4K projection system. A superlumis is 1080 the chipst is the same as The Christie thus no need to A/B for this parameter. Had SIM2 opted for a 4K chip then this changes everything and I would have certainly opted for a comparison.

I like high ANSI I don't know anyone who doesn't yet in the balance sheet superior low end ,pixel structure visibility and fill factor as well as lamp output decay and concomitant frequent gray scale and color calibration requirements favored heavy the Sony 5000.

Art
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Art. That’s helpful.

In my theater the first row is just inside where your second row is and my 2nd & 3rd row are obviously even further back (relatively smaller home theaters make it feel too stuffy). As such I didn’t find that the resolution difference played a significant role in my A/B comparison, whereas the 3-chip dlp advantages were much more obvious.

I look forward to seeing the eclipse next week.
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post #253 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 01:52 PM
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Not a single poster was looking for a 1080P projector.
Yes this was established but reinforces my point that the Pros & cons not equally weighed.
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post #254 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes this was established but reinforces my point that the Pros & cons not equally weighed.
Depends on who’s pros and cons... yours or mine? They are obviously different.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #255 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 02:06 PM
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Depends on who’s pros and cons... yours or mine? They are obviously different.
You would have no way of knowing since you didn’t compare.
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post #256 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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You would have no way of knowing since you didn’t compare.
I knew. I see way more pixels !

1080p. Old school.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #257 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 02:09 PM
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I knew. I see way more pixels !

1080p. Old school.
That’s one PRO. Unfortunately, you didn’t compare to see the CONS for yourself. They are noticeable.
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post #258 of 269 Old 02-29-2020, 02:46 PM
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Freakguy,

Can you give it a rest? Your posts are irrelevant to this thread!


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That’s one PRO. Unfortunately, you didn’t compare to see the CONS for yourself. They are noticeable.
666 You sound jealous! I’m sure he,(TheBland), knew exactly what matters to him and wanted . That is by far a magnificent theater/setup. I for one love it find no fault in it. 👍👍👍😁
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post #260 of 269 Old 03-01-2020, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Dennis Erskine told me that - a engineered room is like a fish tank - one hole and all the water drains out.
So this dilemma about using a port glass or not has always been a head scratcher for me?
To build a perfect room with the weakest point a 3mm Port Glass OR having a gaping hole at the Port Hole...
In my case although I have a hole at my port (no port glass) the way the hush box is constructed is sound proofed (but is it?)
Dunno what is best and how it affects audio.
Ash, boy I was really full of angst over the port decision. Originally Keith Yates wanted 3 panes of glass! Being a cinematographer, putting any glass in front of a lens is anathema to me. I finally compromised on allowing 2 panes. Keith was concerned about sound leakage from the projection room and he was right. As Jeff & Art can attest from being in my theater, it is _silent_. The quietness of the room is essential in contributing to the immersive experience of watching a movie.

If I could do it over again, I would have insisted on easy removal of the ports for access (like cleaning), though that would have entailed a much more expensive installation in order to not compromise the audio seal from the projection room. But it is a cost I would (& should) have gladly incurred...

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post58993688
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post #261 of 269 Old 03-01-2020, 05:43 PM
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Ash, boy I was really full of angst over the port decision. Originally Keith Yates wanted 3 panes of glass! Being a cinematographer, putting any glass in front of a lens is anathema to me. I finally compromised on allowing 2 panes. Keith was concerned about sound leakage from the projection room and he was right. As Jeff & Art can attest from being in my theater, it is _silent_. The quietness of the room is essential in contributing to the immersive experience of watching a movie.



If I could do it over again, I would have insisted on easy removal of the ports for access (like cleaning), though that would have entailed a much more expensive installation in order to not compromise the audio seal from the projection room. But it is a cost I would (& should) have gladly incurred...



-Rob



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post58993688


Rob- do you happen to recall what glass was used for the 2 panes? Brand and thickness? I was always curious what you used given all the equipment in your projector room.

Thanks
George


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post #262 of 269 Old 03-02-2020, 01:59 PM
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Rob- do you happen to recall what glass was used for the 2 panes? Brand and thickness? I was always curious what you used given all the equipment in your projector room.

Thanks
George
Hi George,

I went through my files and sadly could not find any info on what port we used, thickness, etc. It was spec'd by Keith and I trusted his recommendation. It was 4 years ago (is that possible?) so even if I knew the model # there would be a good chance I wouldn't remember anyway!

I was very concerned about the quality of the glass so I stressed that intensely when they were deciding which manufacturer to use... Keith is pretty busy now, but I could try and find out if you want...

-Rob

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post58993688
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post #263 of 269 Old 03-02-2020, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Depends on who’️s pros and cons... yours or mine? They are obviously different.
You would have no way of knowing since you didn’️t compare.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Looks like you have compared both
Can you give us comparison between Superlumis and Sony5000 in regards to
- black level
- on off contrast
- light output and color uniformity from 0 hrs to 2000 hrs
- resolution of course

Irrespective of what you say the difference between 1080p source and 4K source when displayed on Sony5000 is glaringly obvious even from my second row ( and my second row eye to screen distance is 15-16ft . Even my kids who have no interest in AV can tell the difference .
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post #264 of 269 Old 03-02-2020, 10:17 PM
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I lined my equipment room with 100mm thick polyester insulation and it does a great job of absorbing the equipment noise and reducing leakage into the theater.

Like thebland, my equipment room is inside the acoustic shell, so the port glass only has to deal with equipment noise and isn't part of the primary sound proofing.

Cheers,
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post #265 of 269 Old 03-03-2020, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
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Hi George,



I went through my files and sadly could not find any info on what port we used, thickness, etc. It was spec'd by Keith and I trusted his recommendation. It was 4 years ago (is that possible?) so even if I knew the model # there would be a good chance I wouldn't remember anyway!



I was very concerned about the quality of the glass so I stressed that intensely when they were deciding which manufacturer to use... Keith is pretty busy now, but I could try and find out if you want...



-Rob



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post58993688


Thanks Rob- no need to bother Keith. I heard secondhand he recently used glass from Port Window Glass. Interesting that he was wanting to use triple pane for sound control! I don’t blame you for negotiating that down . Would need the mighty Eclipse projector for that!


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post #266 of 269 Old 03-03-2020, 11:41 PM
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Wow, 1/2" thick glass. Frequently I see speced two panes thick but I wonder if that added thickness really helps sound isolation. If Keith says it though I'd go with it. My rack is around the corner and more comes through the rack than through the glass for me so it's moot.


Nyal Mellor also recommends the ACO Opticlear , 12mm optical glass. Over the Edmunds product.
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post #267 of 269 Old 03-04-2020, 05:50 AM
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Nyal Mellor also recommends the ACO Opticlear , 12mm optical glass. Over the Edmunds product.

And the added benefit that if the projection room floods it will hold back the theater from the water up to 20 atmospheres.

Art
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post #268 of 269 Old 03-18-2020, 08:43 AM
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I came looking for a full write up of the “G2G experience” at this theater, but haven’t yet seen one (although I may have missed it trying to quickly scroll past the argument regarding a 1080p projector. Please—someone encapsulate the movie experience—audio, video, room, etc. from entry to exit. How was Ford v. Ferrari...somebody spill all the beans, please.


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post #269 of 269 Old 03-18-2020, 08:55 AM
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I came looking for a full write up of the “G2G experience” at this theater, but haven’t yet seen one (although I may have missed it trying to quickly scroll past the argument regarding a 1080p projector. Please—someone encapsulate the movie experience—audio, video, room, etc. from entry to exit. How was Ford v. Ferrari...somebody spill all the beans, please.


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