Lyngdorf MP-50 SSP & ROOM PERFECT room correction REVIEW - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-08-2019, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Lyngdorf MP-50 SSP & ROOM PERFECT room correction REVIEW

[Previously posted here in this forum in this thread https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...rocessors.html , however, I think this SSP and review thereof merit its own thread.]


I definitely liked what I heard last Saturday at my friend Dave's home, the Lyngdorf MP-50 SSP, after we applied its Room Perfect optimization.

Dave, your room has gotta be one of the absolute worst in terms of planning the best home theatre sonics (which you readily admit that you have these limitations) given its a super long room, open, living room on one side, kitchen way on the other side, open wall area just past the living room sofa, shutters on the left side (non-open wall to the outside), etc. With young kids and dogs, you have a large entertainment center, with a 77" Sony OLED, components in cabinet below, center speaker above tv in cabinet, main floorstanding left and right speakers just off and next to the cabinet, on the left a large subwoofer right next to the speaker, on the right a stand right next to the speaker, with front left and right speakers perhaps a foot if that in front of the wall. 9' high ceiling. All of your speakers and subwoofers are old, 20 years, built by a great local company (Marcelino) now no longer in business (too bad - they made great sounding speakers). Your 7.1 system has four in ceiling speakers for your side and rear surrounds. No acoustics treatments! See below photos of theatre portion of the long long portion/great room of Dave's home!

Dave once had a MacIntosh SSP with Room Perfect and he felt the Room Perfect Optimization helped; he then replaced it with a Theta Casablanca IV SSP with top D3 DACs for front speakers, but found in his setup that Dirac room correction did not improve the sonics (although many Theta CB owners have found Dirac indeed did improve sonics particularly if they have floorstanding speakers placed more "properly" and away from the walls); so Dave got a Lyngdorf MP50 which he has been burning in without using its Room Perfect optimization for the past 6 weeks or so.

Yesterday I had the pleasure of going over to Dave's (way on other side of Phoenix from me) and first listening to his system as is; then we did the Room Perfect optimization; then we listened again. Listening tests (Oppo UDP-205) included a few discs that I brought over: CD of Acoustic Alchemy's greatest hits; Bohemian Rhapsody 4k disc (played movie extra 20 minute concert footage filmed for the movie but some of it cut in the movie); some jazz CD which Dave played a lot and was familiar with; Zubin Mehta with Khatia Buniatishvili 4k concert disc & Ready Player One 4k disc (played only after optimization).

Before doing the optimization, we reviewed a review of the MP50 at https://hometheaterreview.com/lyngdo...eamp-reviewed/ and the product manual at http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploa...-june-2017.pdf

So pre-optimization, Dave's system sounded about as I would expect given his setup limitations - ok, but nothing making me interested in spending time listening to music or watching movies, etc. Sonics correlated like what I was seeing in his setup limitations.

Then we did the Room Perfect optimization. You are supposed to take a number of measurements. First from the main center listening position. Then from various random positions, heights, microphone orientations around the room. Random measurements no closer than 1.5 feet to side walls and 3 feet to front speakers. The onscreen display perfectly leads you through the optimization steps. If a measurement has an issue with volume level it tells you, and you reorient the microphone and stand and try again until there's no issue (Trinnov is similar in this respect). The on screen display tells you the percent of optimization achieved, and you are supposed to get at least 95. We did the "focus" main center listening position, and then I think 7 more random measurements. Then the manual states to do several more measurements but within 1.5' of side walls and also ceiling. So we did 3 more measurements randomly again to accomplish this. Then the MP50 did the optimization calculations.

Post optimization:

We put on the Acoustic Alchemy CD. We used and compared the "Focus" calculated optimization (for the main listening position), and the "Global" calculated optimization that Dave setup (more for the entire combined listening area). "Focus" really got my attention, sounded very nice, even "audiophile", much better than pre-optimization. "Global" also sounded nice but somewhat louder and not as detailed and clear, "Focus" was clearly better. We found this with another jazz CD that Dave was familiar with that he played. Dave and I moved some off to the left and right of the MLP, and the MLP, and we found in all these positions we preferred the "Focus" setting! Room Perfect optimization clearly transformed Dave's system nicely - you could close your eyes and have no idea of the room's severe limitations. With excellent 3D soundstaging reasonably behind the speakers!

Next, onto "Bohemian Rhapsody" 4k disc, the extra concert part, in Doby TrueHD 7.1 (since Dave doesn't have Atmos speakers anyway). Immediately, I noticed how much more real the crowd noise was than before (pre-optimization). Everything, and I mean everything, was markedly sonically better. I forgot just how way better my own theatre sounds, and was transformed almost to the venue thinking how the heck could this room with its limitations and poor setup sound so outstanding! I now had the illusion of being at the live concert to a fair extent - no longer the more 2 dimensional "flatter" sonics we had before. I was stomping my feet, etc and enjoying it! So very musical. Great soundstage. 3D!

Next we played the Khatia 4k concert disc, Khatia is one of the world's very best concert pianists. WOW! So very musical and involving! Didn't bother to play this pre-optimization as I could quickly tell the system's sonic limitations and wanted to get the optimization done. That piano sounded like - a real piano. You could hear and feel the decay of the piano notes! You could feel her fingers plucked quickly against the piano.

Next we played "Ready Player One" 4k disc. Nice sonics again, but bass slam here one could tell its limitations with only one corner placed 15" subwoofer!

By the way, in Dave's system, we played 2 channel CDs in both Dolby and Auro 3D, and both sounded nice. We really didn't so a comparison of one vs the other. Both sounded better to me than straight 2 channel in Dave's system!

$10k msrp (Dave didn't pay msrp, but we are not permitted on the forum to discuss prices below msrp). We discussed how he could improve his system even more - add a 2nd subwoofer in the other front corner; four inexpensive on wall side and rear surrounds, and move his current four inceilings speakers above his sofa for the 4 Dolby Atmos speakers. Dave is able to do all the work himself so that helps. I wonder what the future has in store. Nonetheless, as is his system now post Room Perfect optimization is very nice indeed.

Also, once we were all done, we realized that some months back Dave started using some EQ box for his subwoofer, which he left on during Room Perfect optimization. But when Dave setup the box, there is only one measurement position, the MLP. So it makes sense that his system will sound ben better, with better and more accurate mid and low bass, it he take out the box and then redoes the measurement procedure. Because the MP50 does measurements throughout the room, compared to whatever box this is which does one measurement at the MLP only. Which Dave intends to do next time in a few weeks when he gets a day off (Dave is quite busy - when I left he and his wife were taking the boys for their basketball practices - both point guards)! So I suspect that what I heard will get even better!

I still love my current dedicated theatre system (Trinnov Altitude 32 based 5.2.4, in process shortly of being upgraded to 9.4.13) and my Trinnov SSP certainly works for me given my speaker # upgrade and excellent sonics. However, as this thread discusses, the choices for those with say up to 16 speakers are getting more and more, Trinnov, Storm Audio, Lyngdorf, Datasat, soon MacIntosh?, someday Theta (18 channels upcoming CBV)? If I had kept my currrent 5.2.4 configuration, or even upped the speaker count a bit, I certainly could have got nice performance and not spent nearly as much as I am spending!

I admit I am so very impressed by this Room Perfect optimization. And if you have a more typical say living room theatre, with in or on wall front speakers, or even front floorstanding speakers very close to walls/obstructed, perhaps a Room Perfect SSP is right for you! On the other hand, in a more "audiophile" setup, perhaps a Trinnov SSP, or a Dirac based SSP might work good for you. Now there's a lot of choice. Although I love my Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP, I think the Trinnov Altitude 16 SSP, retailing I think $17 or $18 grand is just as good sounding if you have up to 16 channels, but also the Lyngdorf MP50 at $10k msrp certainly hits a price point and the sonics I heard yesterday post-optimization were quite astounding! SSPs have come a long way! Caveat that this review can really only comment on the sonics and soundstage difference I heard pre and post applying Room Perfect and I have no idea how other SSPs sound in Dave's living room. Also, I understand that the MacIntosh SSPs use the same digital platform as does Steinway-Lyngdorf, but that the MacIntosh SSPs use "better" internal components supposedly for even better sonics.
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post #2 of 17 Old 07-08-2019, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
@Steve Bruzonsky - This review was right on time - thank you. I am actually ready to pull the trigger on the MP-50. Outside of only having a small, single sub, did you feel that RP provides or is capable of providing thunderous movie soundtrack bass with the help of the onboard voicing? I am a bass head when it comes to movies and the lack of a custom curve editor is my only reserve on pulling the trigger.

Chris
Sorry - I can only comment on what I heard with the limitations of Dave's room, system and setup. Including one 15' driver subwoofer which is 20 years old!

On music his system sounded really nice post room correction including bass. And this includes the 4k disc movie concert extra of "Bohemian Rhapsody" in which the mid and low bass were outstanding. But "Ready Player One" 4k disc left more on the table when it comes to bass performance.

I didn't get into whether how many subwoofer outputs the MP-50 can accomodate though I would think the product manual will discuss this.

No doubt the Trinnov Altitude 16 (I have the Altitude 32 with 24 channels!) gives the most flexibility including any bass of any of the SSPs. But its price point is considerably higher. It all depends on one's needs and ones affordability. Plus one could get the MP-50 and then get an external box to manage multiple subwoofers well. There are different ways to skin the cat (here comes PETA), and as the consumer you have to decide whats best for you. I'm simply giving my impression based on the using the MP-50 SSP in Dave's room and system, which won't answer everyone's questions for their own tastes, financial affordability and systems!

Moreover, my review points out how a terribly setup room and system has phenomenal sonic improvement including 3D imaging in this case. Frankly, the sonics and 3D imaging trump how perfect you get the bass!

Also, as one gets older, one gets lazier. I love how my Trinnov SSP, once microphone measurements are done, auto determines distance/delay and speaker/subwoofer volume, no more manually setting speaker volumes. The MP-50 gives you half of this, as you need to enter speaker distances but it auto adjusts speaker/subwoofer volume. The more speakers one has, the better these auto features are!!!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!

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post #3 of 17 Old 07-08-2019, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
I am a bass head when it comes to movies and the lack of a custom curve editor is my only reserve on pulling the trigger.

From everything I've read, bass shouldn't be a concern.

Not sure what you mean by lack of a custom curve editor, as the Voicing tool fulfills that function.

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post #4 of 17 Old 07-08-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
There is no frequency curve that I can adjust like Dirac Live or the Audyssey app.

True, you don't get the convenience of a single user-defined target curve, but the functionality is there.
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-12-2019, 11:57 PM
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Really happy to see this review, and couldn't agree more. The biggest challenge I have with my planned setup is convincing people that Room Perfect can almost completely remove the need for acoustic treatments / optimum room design.

It really can, and I hope more people experience it.

---------------


My build thread
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-14-2019, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Really happy to see this review, and couldn't agree more. The biggest challenge I have with my planned setup is convincing people that Room Perfect can almost completely remove the need for acoustic treatments / optimum room design.

It really can, and I hope more people experience it.
Tell us about your planned setup. Lyngdorf MP-50? On wall/In Wall/Floorstanding Speakers, amplifiers, room?

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-20-2019, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Tell us about your planned setup. Lyngdorf MP-50? On wall/In Wall/Floorstanding Speakers, amplifiers, room?
I'm going with a Steinway Lyngdorf P200, and all in-wall speakers in a 7.6.4 setup. 3 x IW-66 at the front, 4 x IC-16 in the ceiling, and 4 x IW-26V for the front wides / surround.

However, the Room Perfect technology is common to both and in the main Steinway UK showroom they also have a full MK speaker setup paired with a Lyngdorf MP-50 - I've visited there multiple times, once for a full weekend.

The rooms in the showroom are far from ideal from an acoustic perspective (open to the back, lopsided, no acoustic treatment), but the Room Perfect correction removes all of those issues. I've enabled/disabled the correction and the difference is night and day.

I am mainly going with the Steinway setup for the IW-66's. Having now visited 10's of home cinema showrooms, they are by far the most capable speakers I've ever heard.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyWilkinson View Post
I'm going with a Steinway Lyngdorf P200, and all in-wall speakers in a 7.6.4 setup. 3 x IW-66 at the front, 4 x IC-16 in the ceiling, and 4 x IW-26V for the front wides / surround.

However, the Room Perfect technology is common to both and in the main Steinway UK showroom they also have a full MK speaker setup paired with a Lyngdorf MP-50 - I've visited there multiple times, once for a full weekend.

The rooms in the showroom are far from ideal from an acoustic perspective (open to the back, lopsided, no acoustic treatment), but the Room Perfect correction removes all of those issues. I've enabled/disabled the correction and the difference is night and day.

I am mainly going with the Steinway setup for the IW-66's. Having now visited 10's of home cinema showrooms, they are by far the most capable speakers I've ever heard.
Nice!!!

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post #9 of 17 Old 07-29-2019, 02:03 AM
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Had the mcintosh mx150 at one point so I know how good the Room Perfect is. I have been holding out on either this processor and the mx160 due to the latest updates.

Is the HDMI 18gbps update now shipping on MP-50?

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post #10 of 17 Old 07-29-2019, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Had the mcintosh mx150 at one point so I know how good the Room Perfect is. I have been holding out on either this processor and the mx160 due to the latest updates. .

Is the HDMI 18gbps update now shipping on MP-50?
Dave mentioned and I saw in the review I think that I posted in the very first post in this thread that Dave can get it for his MP-50 for $1,300 which includes shipping to and from Lyngdorf. So if you are buying a new one (Dave got a demo I think which is 9 GHz not 18 GHz) you should be able to order it 18 GHz though I'm not sure if the msrp is then increased.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post
Had the mcintosh mx150 at one point so I know how good the Room Perfect is. I have been holding out on either this processor and the mx160 due to the latest updates.

Is the HDMI 18gbps update now shipping on MP-50?

Well, I contacted a couple local dealers which have contacted Lyndorf directly and cannot provide me a definitive answer! They mentioned the unit supports 4K, which it should, but cannot confirm if new units are shipping with the new HDMI board, let alone can confirm it supports 4K @60hz

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Well, I contacted a couple local dealers which have contacted Lyndorf directly and cannot provide me a definitive answer! They mentioned the unit supports 4K, which it should, but cannot confirm if new units are shipping with the new HDMI board, let alone can confirm it supports 4K @60hz
https://lyngdorf.com/news-advanced-h...d-for-q2-2018/

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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post

Advanced HDMI Upgrade Program Announced for Q2 2018


Steinway Lyngdorf is pleased to announce an official HDMI upgrade program for both Steinway Lyngdorf and Lyngdorf Audio customers. The new upgrade program allows for existing clients to upgrade to the very latest HDMI platform with 18Gbps bandwidth and featuring HDMI 2.1 feature enhanced Audio return channel (eARC).

Starting in Q2 2018, all existing clients will be able to take advantage of a factory-upgrade of Steinway Lyngdorf P200 processors and Lyngdorf Audio MP-50 processors. The new HDMI boards will continue to support HDR and 3D in addition to bandwidth up the 18Gbps.

Lyngdorf Audio
Lyngdorf Audio factory upgrades will cost $1,300, including roundtrip shipping. All 8 HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs will be upgraded to 2.0b with 18Gbps bandwidth support.

Steinway Lyngdorf
Steinway Lyngdorf factory upgrades will cost $1,600, including roundtrip shipping. All 8 HDMI inputs and 4 HDMI outputs will be upgraded to 2.0b with 18Gbps bandwidth support. Video matrixing will still be active, but video wall/video tiling and picture-in-picture will no longer be enabled.

This upgrade program will be available until June 30, 2018. Please contact your local Steinway Lyngdorf or Lyngdorf Audio representative for further information.


Apparently the upgrade is still coming but delayed for the MP-50:

https://lyngdorf.com/news-hdmi-upgrade-program/
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-31-2019, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Apparently the upgrade is still coming but delayed for the MP-50:

https://lyngdorf.com/news-hdmi-upgrade-program/

When was that announcement?

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post #14 of 17 Old 07-31-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Apparently the upgrade is still coming but delayed for the MP-50:

https://lyngdorf.com/news-hdmi-upgrade-program/

What was the date of that announcement?

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post #15 of 17 Old 07-31-2019, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
What was the date of that announcement?
I clicked on the NEWS tab, and it showed a date of April 13th, 2018. I don't see any updates to that information on that page though.
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We are still waiting for the new board. The latest that I have heard is the end of summer. But that could be simply rumors. I've been anxiously following the new board update for some time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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post #17 of 17 Old 08-10-2019, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
So, I tried out a Lyngdorf MP-50 for 3 months, because my previous experience with a McIntosh MX-151 was pretty good and I liked what RoomPerfect did. The MP-50 is a nice unit, but overall, the sound just didn't do it for me. I ran a couple of RP calibrations, and it did help smooth things out, but I kept trying to figure out why I wasn't completely satisfied. In fact, the MX-151 in the same room was better sounding, so I'm betting the MX-160 is really nice.
I wanted to like the MP-50, because of my preconceived notion that RoomPerfect would do better in my horrible room than Dirac Live. I finally took out the MP-50 and put my CBIV back in.
Jaw drop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy cow, how could I have gone away from the CBIV? And, I'm using the CBIV, without Dirac Live. The first thing that hit me....no, never mind that....several things hit me. Dynamics, full-bodied, powerful, and musical - definitely much more musical. If you want an absolutely great description of the CBIV, click the link in Can's signature. First of all - great job Can! And, he is absolutely right - on all of his points! Words like spooky, scary, layering, etc, all true.
My CBIV without EQ, in my horrible room, sounds better than any other processor I've heard with or without EQ. Of course, I have not heard the Trinnov in my room, which could be better. However, I've found that I just don't seem to like EQ'd sound in my room - just a personal preference. Yes, it can do some things better, but overall, I like what I'm hearing right now. And, as I've found out, there's a few other CB owners here who run a majority (or all) of the time without DL.
Do yourself a favor and read Can's link in his signature line. I own a CB, and I still get excited to read it and to want to get home and spend some time with my system.
Great job Theta!
Dave
So Dave ended up going back to his Theta CBIV SSP with the top DACs for his front channels. I only heard his system with the MP-50, before and after room perfect optimization - so I can comment on how well the optimization sounded in comparison. I can't comment on how the CBIVA SSP vs MP-50 sounded in Dave's room and system - and so long as he is happy that's what counts. And of course the CBIV (current model IVA) SSP with the D3 Extreme DACs costs a lot more than the MP-50. The MP-50 certainly is an excellent SSP in its price range!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
! 9.4.13 Trinnov Altitude 32 Theatre renovation/upgrade starts end of July 2019!
Steve Bruzonsky is offline  
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