CINERAMAX Cedia 2019 Alcon Demo - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 54 Old 07-28-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
But as far as I know they don’t sell speakers without their amps and cost of basic tuning/ commissioning included in the project cost
I have not talked to a dealer yet, but since there's a dealer in Norway who has Alcons on the website/webshop (speakers and amps) I assumed it would be available separately.


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Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Sure, you could theoretically run CRMS with other amps too, but you would miss out on their normalisation filtering which is custom for each speaker and included with the amps.
That's what I thought and was wondering if it could be compensated via a processor. If it can't then there's no point in running the speakers without their amp. In the end, this is for a second system for me, movies only in a small room. I have a bunch of amps sitting around on shelves from older systems which I never sold, so using those instead of buying new would make sense.

I have other manufacturers on my usual suspect list as well, just doing some research at this point. Many thanks.

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post #32 of 54 Old 07-28-2019, 12:39 PM
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You should contact your local Norwegian dealer / distributor (they also have a full 13.1 auro 3D Datasat processed Alcons system on display BTW), but in general Alcons is sold only as complete systems.


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post #33 of 54 Old 07-28-2019, 12:49 PM
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post #34 of 54 Old 07-28-2019, 01:40 PM
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Two consecutive permanent bans.
Is that like double secret probation?

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post #35 of 54 Old 07-28-2019, 01:43 PM
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I'm not in Norway, it's just what came up when I was searching for a european pricelist. Alcons is present in Germany as it seems, so I'll give those guys a call and see if they can recommend a local dealer.
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post #36 of 54 Old 07-29-2019, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
You should contact your local Norwegian dealer / distributor (they also have a full 13.1 auro 3D Datasat processed Alcons system on display BTW), but in general Alcons is sold only as complete systems.


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Uhm, not very appropriate in the rental & staging world, one of Alcons primary markets. Need for extra speakers or amps all the time. A few years go they also served clients that need a single speaker at a time.
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post #37 of 54 Old 07-29-2019, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Two consecutive permanent bans.
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Originally Posted by skoolpsyk View Post
^yikes. Maybe I don't want to know what he did to deserve that!
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It's not all that hard, I was suspended for a short time for an innocent mistake.
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I believe the last one was for pre announcing DTS:X Pro for Trinnov 6 months before they issued a press release.
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AVS bans are for a few days or a week generally. I should know as I've had happen a few times over the years. HA! Keep in mind AVS is a for profit forum that sells advertising and if you don't think this affects certain decisions then you don't understand capitalism. HA! HA! Unfortunately as CMax can be quite interesting and intriguing. I agree with Adam no way CMax was banned for that.
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Peter is a friend and I wish he was able to post again. His last posts on this forum were about Trinnov supporting DTS:X Pro well before it was announced. I would tend to agree
That it was not Trinnov that banned him as he has had a good relationship with Arnold. I bought my Trinnov from Peter and he was able to get them to very quickly
Apply the 16 digital, 16 analog channel patch to my system. There were however some AVS members who were upset he was discussing the DTS:X Pro support.
To clarify matters... AVSForum issues points based infractions for individual offenses, the majority of which have attributed time limits. Some infractions will also incur a temporary ban from either the respective thread only, or the entire forum, which will last for the duration of the infraction time limit, often being 2 weeks duration

In order to achieve a permanent ban you must accumulate a total of 15 points at any one time via multiple infractions

It is therefore easy to receive a temporary ban; but it is not easy to achieve a permanent ban

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post #38 of 54 Old 07-29-2019, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Uhm, not very appropriate in the rental & staging world, one of Alcons primary markets. Need for extra speakers or amps all the time. A few years go they also served clients that need a single speaker at a time.


Yeah, sure, that is also why one should contact them for any need or requirements as they will always evaluate and advice on a case-by-case basis. I am sure they are flexible if needed be, but their reference audio quality is indeed the result of a proper system design which is what they are basically saying is adviced...


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post #39 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
To clarify matters... AVSForum issues points based infractions for individual offenses, the majority of which have attributed time limits. Some infractions will also incur a temporary ban from either the respective thread only, or the entire forum, which will last for the duration of the infraction time limit, often being 2 weeks duration

In order to achieve a permanent ban you must accumulate a total of 15 points at any one time via multiple infractions

It is therefore easy to receive a temporary ban; but it is not easy to achieve a permanent ban

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In a general sense, you are correct, however, there are a few transgressions which result in a lifetime ban with a single event ..trust me I found out the hard way. Thanks to a good friend here I was able, indirectly, to get reinstated but I had to pull a Ned Beatty routine from Deliverance to get there.

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post #40 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 09:07 AM
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All I will say is AVS Forum is not here for the goodness of our hobby. It is a for profit venture (nothing wrong with that). And advertisers can pay both for ads and also for access. One can speculate whether someone who designs world beating theaters can continue to have free access to posting on AVS without paying the price.

Back when I moderated (volunteer) the AVS Special Guests Forum 1999-2003, thats when advertisers started coming on. They would email me thinking I owned the forum, and I referred them to then co-owner David Bott who signed up advertisers. I got the real jolt effect of this in early 2003 when I lined up Tributaries (cable) as a Special Guest and was told the forum had an exclusive advertising contract with another cable company so I couldn't have them as a guest - I didn't bring in any more Special Guests after that and by the end of 2003 the forum was closed. In case you can't guess I didn't care for Bott.

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post #41 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 01:02 PM
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Previous comment...

“I'd guess excessively self-promoting posts, IMO often bordering on spam.”

+ what SB said above in the first couple sentences.


As some of you know I am friends with Peter and respect his creativity and passion. I do agree there was possibly or even probable promotion but it was promotion of ideas and breaking the mold.

Peter seduced us with his projects and vendor diversity. For example, in my opinion, he practically introduced high end to the high end $20K forum. Notably Digital Projection, Christie, Barco, Datasat, Trinnov, Quested and Alcons. I’m not saying he was the first but indeed a trend setter.

I seen a post in the Trinnov thread about the guesstimated units sold (generous at that) vs the total market. It was minuscule. Like a nit n the nut of a knat is larger. Now if you want to see self promotion and borderline spam (at least heavy sales biased innuendo) visit any Triad, JBL, Revel or JVC thread.

Now is Peter innocent? I’d say no and I have told him this. His crime, to me, is being over zealous in defending his designs and opinions to a point of insulting or condescending. Now I do think some of this come from passion and translation from emotion to keyboard.

There are many in this group that have benefited from his presence, have second to none theaters and saved thousands in the process for knowing him
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post #42 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 01:52 PM
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Verticalscope is the owner of AVS Forum: https://www.verticalscope.com/aboutu...e=avsforum.com

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
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post #43 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
Now if you want to see self promotion and borderline spam (at least heavy sales biased innuendo) visit any Triad, JBL, Revel or JVC thread.
What you don't know is what company is paying how much for self promotion and borderline spam on the forum! Back in the days, when I moderated AVS Special Guests, it was free self-promotion for a Special Guest in the Special Guest thread. But as I explained above, with that forum's success in driving folks to AVS Forum, the forum changed from more of a strict enthusiast forum to a commercial advertising venture. And thus I left moderating and the Special Guest Forum closed. Again, not saying advertising and profit are wrong, just saying not my thing, and can explain why some are perhaps banned and some are not?

If you have a company with AV products or services, you can contact the forum and find out the pricing for advertising, etc for yourself and learn about this.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
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post #44 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

As some of you know I am friends with Peter and respect his creativity and passion. I do agree there was possibly or even probable promotion but it was promotion of ideas and breaking the mold.

Peter seduced us with his projects and vendor diversity. For example, in my opinion, he practically introduced high end to the high end $20K forum. Notably Digital Projection, Christie, Barco, Datasat, Trinnov, Quested and Alcons. I’m not saying he was the first but indeed a trend setter.

Now is Peter innocent? I’d say no and I have told him this. His crime, to me, is being over zealous in defending his designs and opinions to a point of insulting or condescending. Now I do think some of this come from passion and translation from emotion to keyboard.

There are many in this group that have benefited from his presence, have second to none theaters and saved thousands in the process for knowing him
Peter is and was - Peter. The man who coined the term "home theatre". Peter's bravado can be a turn-off at times. And his turning up the sound so loud and boomy at CEDIA a few years ago I certainly disagreed with and last year that seemed to be corrected nicely! No doubt though Peter is quite interesting and brings a lot to the forum that is missed. And his super high heeled customers seem to be very happy with his work! I do sort of wonder, given our ages and my recent experience with hearing aids at age 65 (after IV antibiotics for a ruptured appendix I fully healed and my hearing improved), whether Peter perhaps has some hearing issues thus louder and louder perhaps isn't so loud for him! Some might say Peter has a loud but if you get to know him engaging and personable personality! And you are right - Peter has shared a lot of info here for - FREE - which has helped folks and also saved them $$$!

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
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post #45 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 02:04 PM
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I think this thread should get off the Peter being banned subject and back to the Alcons demo (we are pressing our luck continuing to discuss this - and I admit fault in this regard). As both Mani and LaSalle have Alcons systems, how about if you folks give us some more info on the WHY of why you went with Alcons and your own subjective evaluation vs other home theatre systems you have heard.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
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post #46 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 02:51 PM
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^^^
I have no problem at all for those that pay for ads and banners.

Are you saying you can pay for the right to spam, solicite, create awareness in threads?

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post #47 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I think this thread should get off the Peter being banned subject and back to the Alcons demo (we are pressing our luck continuing to discuss this - and I admit fault in this regard). As both Mani and LaSalle have Alcons systems, how about if you folks give us some more info on the WHY of why you went with Alcons and your own subjective evaluation vs other home theatre systems you have heard.
Here is a video of Tom Beck (Alcons owner), Peter, and me from back in 2015 when I first heard them. Good discussion from Tom on what makes them unique and our listening impressions;


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post35231538
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post #48 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 09:42 PM
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I doubt Peter was banned for promotion. It may have added to his sentence, but he has went after more than a couple of people on this forum. I never reported him for his vicious attacks on me, but I doubt others were as lenient as I.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
What you don't know is what company is paying how much for self promotion and borderline spam on the forum! Back in the days, when I moderated AVS Special Guests, it was free self-promotion for a Special Guest in the Special Guest thread. But as I explained above, with that forum's success in driving folks to AVS Forum, the forum changed from more of a strict enthusiast forum to a commercial advertising venture. And thus I left moderating and the Special Guest Forum closed. Again, not saying advertising and profit are wrong, just saying not my thing, and can explain why some are perhaps banned and some are not?
.
You seem to bring this up your Special Guests moderating somewhat frequently.

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post #49 of 54 Old 08-02-2019, 11:27 PM
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Jiggers me I was wondering if anyone read my posts! 😍😍😍

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show....php?t=1158431 No dealer is authorized to tell you I refer to them - any referrals I make will be done personally by me. Over the years I have found certain dealer(s) who I cannot recommend for good reason.
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post #50 of 54 Old 08-03-2019, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Nigel,
In a general sense, you are correct, however, there are a few transgressions which result in a lifetime ban with a single event ..trust me I found out the hard way. Thanks to a good friend here I was able, indirectly, to get reinstated but I had to pull a Ned Beatty routine from Deliverance to get there.

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post #51 of 54 Old 08-03-2019, 07:36 AM
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Please spare us your BrokeBack moments
Trust me, I would have preferred to have been spared them myself.

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post #52 of 54 Old 08-05-2019, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
I'm not in Norway, it's just what came up when I was searching for a european pricelist. Alcons is present in Germany as it seems, so I'll give those guys a call and see if they can recommend a local dealer.
Just call them at HQ in Zwaag, try to get a pro dealer that used to get you better list pricing;-), as they got standard margin in the pro market, HT dealers needed a bit more. Not sure if that is still the case, though.

The Germany address seems to be a Haus, reihehaus, hard to tell with just the satellite view, and streetview banned.

Is Walter (Austria) only calibrating the Alcons show systems, or also a dealer of the hardware?

Next time you are in Florida, ask La Salle for a demo of his set-up.

Last edited by donaldk; 08-05-2019 at 01:37 AM.
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post #53 of 54 Old 08-15-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Next time you are in Florida, ask La Salle for a demo of his set-up.
Been in touch with him, but unfortunately I'm not in Florida anymore (need to update profile).

Have not made much progress yet, as time for toys is limited. Spoke to another dealer though, looking at a Steinway system as well. Might be able to get a demo on that late next month or early October (I've heard it before).

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post #54 of 54 Old 08-15-2019, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
I'm not in Norway, it's just what came up when I was searching for a european pricelist. Alcons is present in Germany as it seems, so I'll give those guys a call and see if they can recommend a local dealer.
Just call them at HQ in Zwaag, try to get a pro dealer that used to get you better list pricing;-), as they got standard margin in the pro market, HT dealers needed a bit more. Not sure if that is still the case, though.

The Germany address seems to be a Haus, reihehaus, hard to tell with just the satellite view, and streetview banned.

Is Walter (Austria) only calibrating the Alcons show systems, or also a dealer of the hardware?

Next time you are in Florida, ask La Salle for a demo of his set-up.
Walter can get the speakers/amp and commission and calibrate them .
That would be a good option I think
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