Here is a note from Peter on his work on Topmersive experiences. He is very positive on the testing he did on my home HT (LOGE). I can't speak for other custom home HT's , but I can say to my ear's and eye's it exceeds anything I've experienced at CEDIA and other tradeshows. I hope some of you will be able to make the sessions being planned. (I'll try to edit in the pictures he included)
Peter's final thoughts on the Demo, Alcons and other CEDIA novelties.
Thanks to Alcons for letting me conduct the Topsmerssive Experiment and to all the willing guinea pig friends here. I have been encouraged by the feedback as to the worthiness of demanding from Hollywood that they come on board this mixing school of thought and I will address this with Dolby. It’s safe to say That SONY, Paramount, Warner and Lionsgate are totally OFF THE HOOK as demonstrated by their excellent examples in Topsmerssive mixing prowess during the experiment, a lot of them mastered from the cinema release and not remixed stupidly to the smaller screen, it is safe to assume all of the excellent exclusive to Kaleidescape tracks are not stinking remasterings for soundbars. Universal has Lucy, and several other good ones, Fox, I am not convinced yet Alita is Topsmerssive, it lacks a clean natural dynamic element, can’t quite point my finger on what it lacks but goes to show you that lighting up all the channels in a Trinnov multi-channel bargraph is not a guarantee of Topsmerssivenes so I am placing Fox right atop the mother bottom turd, Disney. Join me on this effort to wag the giant rodent by the tail and make the cinematic World of Disney Wonderful Again.
Besides all of the well documented barrage of mediocre mixing examples from Disney, where what once was conceived as good practice to mix the orchestra unto the sidewalls, this high minded Lucas Sound led practice has resulted in a cacophonous diffusive-confusive very un-discrete borscht of a sonic ALLOCENTRIC vomitif.
And if that is not bad enough as it is, Disney pulled out Dynaudio Esotar based monitors from one of their mix rooms and replaced it with QSC (courtesy of my friends at MIT, oi!). This crime against some audiophiles has resulted in the piercing of the sanctity of the transparency veil. FROM STUDIO TO HOME. Thus someone with a Dynaudio Topsmerssive setup at home where Disney mixes, like Ratatouille 5.1, Beauty and the Beast Live act.,Tomorrowland, and Doctor Strange 5.1, which sounded fabulously musical in neural -x, now confirmed with Ratatouille in Atmos all Disney releases have forced the harshness and lack of musicality of the QSC speakers down the chain and imposed this awful grating sound into our homes. This is the ultimate assault on our individual freedom of choice in our pursuit of happiness. QSC crapola for all! I witnessed in the future of cinema conference when Pat Griffis from Dolby’s VP office sold Disney and Pixar on the automated downstream workflow, in retrospect bad idea Pat.
Perhaps Disney needs a Topsmerssive demo to understand. I should try to attempt to arrange just that. While at it, installing a demo Alcons 4” RL-401 ribbon +8” system with 90x90 tops where the old Dynaudio system was could be the ticket. It could turnaround the QSC front end aggravated downstream auto workflow trainwreck (that constantly wrecks our movie watching existence) on a dime. ALCONS IS THE RX TO FIX DISNEY at the source.
THE ALCONS BOOTH DEMO INTRO YOUTUBE filmed by Reddig ( i misspoke twice, the African Archeoacoustic circles were 40k Years ago, not millions, when I said adaptation I meant habituation)
Be warned on my intelligibility, there is no hope I am even more difficult to understand in video than in copy.
Very moved to see today that in the Kscape thread I am not the only lunatic that prefers NON-LINEAR Scripts over regular movie watching, in my case focussed on the Topsmerssive aspects over linear movie watching. As I say The Best Possible Tool for scene analysis. Speaking of Topsmerssion here is my curated multichannel audio library of mostly egocentric mixes. Some errors like sacd’s purchased in stereo YUK, and some concerts that are allocentric but the content makes up in the excitement. The same issue of egocentric vs. allocentric recordings will be presented to DOLBY Music when i submit the best of these titles for ATMOS remixing. A big part of the time devoted to scene analysis when Andrew Poulain returns here on the 21st, last year he stayed for 7 hours and asked for a reprise this year. I am humbled.
I am proud there is very little ALLOCENTRIC classical music in that collection. Classical Music, DIFFUSIVE Church Like Music allocentric presentation acoustics. The drum was the instrument of choice in Africa’s egocentric echo sound stone circle sites of 40k years ago. Drums is the definitive multi channel instrument from yesteryear (remember I am positive this is a primal itch for us), the Moog, however, replaces the drum as the optimal atmos sonic pirouette sound object to take flight about the rooms. The vast majority of music titles I am asking Dolby to prioritize for ATMOS remixing incorporate some very good mooging.
BTW This is the 1975 Moog album I convinced first the artist and then Dolby to reissue in ATMOS from newly unearthed pristine Quad Tapes.
Larry is the Michael Jordan of the Moog. What an honor.
Regarding SPL at the demo experiment: Steve B. is right that I should have played the script prior to the demo and adjust the volume for the loudest passages (RAMBO), for many Murphy audiovisual reasons this was not possible, it was an unrehearsed single shot. I must confess that when I pulled back the chair on the back row (towards the stacked rear right subs) very close to the wall I accidentally found myself seating maybe in the best seat in the house, a selfish bastard seat although only 18 inches away from a wall, I second SOWK’s similar comment on proximity to wall on the right side of that booth, the combination of the Alcons cylindrical dispersion with its wide directivity controlled angles explains for this excellent unexpected benefit, albeit mostly for MY individual SEAT. Call me a Selfish bastard.
Back to volume, once I heard pigs flying I asked Walter for more and tried to go for the flying Hippopotamus. Did we come close to achieving it?
Why we alternated short clips highlighting different elements of the Topsmerssive bubble. From Archaeoacoustics book: (INSERT TO FOLLOW)
The 1) horseshoe-shaped rear band, this is something proven unique to the Alcons Audio 4” Ribbon and 8 “ at LOGE the scalability inside that U-shaped band as experienceable in La Salles is something IMHO NO AUDIOPHILE has ever experienced, from ant man small, to a medium-sized bright burn flying horizontally into the right wall, to the ginormous Off-World Colony Advertising Blimp in Bladerunner panning the entire sidewall, put this on your AVS HT MEET bucket list.
2) Is the extreme example of large object width channel use, Jumanji right wall becomes a giant drum, 3) very detailed use of tops, with robust pinpoint accuracy thanks to SONY, Paramount, Warner and Lionsgate for not remixing these titles for home use.
Why I wanted to do the demo this year? At dinner graciously organized by Ted C. I told Tom Back Alcon’s Owner “you have not heard an Alcons system sound this good.” He laughed at me like saying that’s both presumptuous AND audacious,” FOR A HOME THEATER” I added, “you have no idea, this system as well designed ( and Brad’s trigonometry and anal compulsive attention to detail was exhausting) as it was never meant to sound so over the top reference, this is the best-sounding home theater bed channel because of the cohesiveness and contiguous imaging smoothness with dynamic scalability and eery microarticulation therein [Front stage and Horseshoe] (plus it is transparently non fatiguing as F>>>k)”, even Arrow graciously commented to me and Brad that the bed channel is really something else.
There are many talented individuals and teams exceeding the client's wildest expectations every day with many brands in our industry, something else is at play in LOGE. “The Universe must have blessed it then” Ted C suggested after my lack of plausible explanation as to how it could sound so.Simply a top alternative for any enthusiast interested to sample. Would love to play a topsmerssive script for some of you
E AVS MEET. Brad’s smoked hamburgers are tops.
When calibrating LOGE, Walter has 9 x m2’s in bed channel duty and he confessed “YOU CANNOT DO THIS WITH JBL” ask Brad. The M2 is a dual elliptical voice coil transducer, why use a 2 element transducer, that acts like a turbo when you can have one superbly dispersion controlling lightweight driver with a purely cylindrical waveform 1-20khz as opposed to coaxial, It is more consistent nearfield to far-field, at all decibels, the M2, not so much because of the turbo effect. Tom explained this to me at dinner (while we sketched future speakers lol) that is why the scaling is so purely lineal.
Remember, I was onto the next grueling pie-in-the-sky thing when my conscience is what forced me to revisit Alcons.
As I was moving at hyperspeed towards what feels like an interminably painful mission to Mars, the Penthouse Cinema completion, Brad’s PRO-RIBBON NIRVANA thing was bugging my head. I decided to screech on the brakes, drive for a mile in reverse and revisit a demo with Alcons as it is now more than ever a very worthy cause to experience first hand this LOGE tight scalable horshoe phenomenon. At SOLFAR You can see in the above pics that the separation azimuth of the tops is a constant 30 degrees from MLP, that is a one-seater optimization created to wrap the sounds, not in the somewhat compromised all format donut that is scripture to some Trinnov experts, but krispy Kremedom to at least 2 consultants ( i have proof in a Kaleidescape youtube class) I told Arnaud too to try to stop promoting so hard a unified format as the side effect appears to be creating donuts (holes in the middle above), Arnaud did not totally disagree, “depends on priorities, coverage versus...” selfish bastardom (screw coverage then - at the expense of a healthy payload of serotonin and endorphins
The above setup is designed to recreate the Houston Houston circling 18 Inches around the head with Super Hippopotamus Drop. In LOGE I estimate at 3 feet arms-length object wraparound, a super-significant achievement as it is a format-agnostic deploy the circling was expected by me at 6 feet around the head. Twice as good as expected, now i want to push Brad to push for a tighter headwrap, plus match the tops to the beds with the next gen bigger Alcons tops (CRMS SR HOR VER) for TOTAL BUBLE COHESIVENESS in Atmos, please upgrade Brad.
As to TOP Deployment Topographies, I am now not alone in espousing a design for CINEMA ATMOS (or setup 2 separate optimized systems to handle Neural X Pro as well), if you do the former, the imaging cross-format compromises on the lesser two of the three codecs are minuscule in comparison to the around the head, space invasion envelopment sense of exhilaration that otherwise YOU WILL NOT ENJOY. Decry the Donut. Besides Neural-X with tops laid out for ATMOS cinema, or even extreme selfish bastard 30 degrees constant azymuth can sound spectacularly superior, and AURO not bad at all.
That is what extreme selfish bastardom demands, which presents other challenges as tops MID BASS imaging is the most difficult of art forms presently as you tighten the spacing. That is where Trinnov 4 way bass management will be a lifesaver for the closer azimuth tops. The Trinnov 3D microphone and Alcons rl 401+8” CRMS-SR based bed takes care of the rest.
What else? Presently, like hinted above, who do I consider the most like-minded designer in this field? TONY GRIMANI. He also spouses Cinema azimuth ATMOS tops separation, and in a recent Kaleidescape Training, which I will shoot with my phone and post as a promotion to TONY and Kaleidescape for their extraordinary work in helping dismiss the currently accepted Krispy Kream un-Topsmerssive tops deployment practices in favor of the glorious promotion of TOPSMERSSION, thanks Kaleidescape for hiring Tony, super refreshing knowing I am not alone on these practices.
Asymmetry of side 2-D treatments is something I have independently arrived at, like TONY shows in his lecture. The only thing I disagree with Tony is the overuse of skyscrapers overhead the MLP, you will see in his lecture. Overhead too much 3D diffusion RESULTS IN OBJECT DISCRETENESS CONFUSION.( WHEN YOU ADOPT THE CINEMA AZIMUTH SPACING), you need to try fight physics and aid the separation with hard round diffusion to refract and bounce-separate top sounds towards the selfish bastard spot through image reinforcement preferably from the ideal Damaske and Wagener median plain” high separation” elevation points. The ARTNOVION JAYA might be the tool of choice for this task or half-Jayas im commissioning for tight corners. A top acoustical device manufacturer compared to the norm, classier too.
Finally I DID post in the kaleidescape forum the CEDIA 2019 entire demo script augmented by the latest pair of Topsmerssive reference clips: Spiderman Far From Home - Illusion and (yes Paramount I love you) CRAWL in Neural-X Glory! Remember to set your player at 60fps, no display changes allowed option 1 for hdmi out on the players dashboard. This should be trigerable by a control system for when doing scripts vs. serious movie watching where you will need 24fps.
ON DOLBY CP-850 Home Atmos: What is unique to this super processor is that it uses the Cinema Renderer to take the bed channels and populate all speakers in the room with advanced steering, THEN it sends the objects around the expanded bed.
On the FINAL selection process of the Walls for the PH project. MICROLED may be DOA there. It turns out that the WALL image has been found by Blofeld, Me and Nigel too to have artifacting, not a comfortable Videophile Image in my view. SONY Crystal LED ate Samsungs lunch at Infocomm, CEDIA and apparently IFA despite tile structure noticeability in low adl scenes ( an innocuous effect taking things on balance we most have agreed though). Because of its giant broadcast monitor reference image C-LED has moved to first place in the final decision week for the PH. Blofeld will go see my #2 preferred videophile option, at half the dealer cost of Samsung and SONY. Microsoft selected it for their flagship store in London. From what I have seen I don’t blame them. Specifications mean so little in these new screenwalls currently.
I code named it the “Miami Screen” for it’s perfect condo applicability, it appears as a single giant flat frosted charcoal colored glass panel, it has a perfectly seamless optical coating encapsulating the LED’s and making them more defined enhancing the MTF, a great way to enjoy a pixel, Negative-Zilch reflectivity, superb pixel fill ratio (This is tres important in the conveyance of MTF i don’t hear anyone around here discussing that>>>start) and runs in the 110” size with just one 20 amp circuit, supercool to the touch, the wall lux is 85 farenheit 3 feet in front (but it is the optical nerve triggering artifacting we find disheartening - look forward to a future fix). The Sony also runs cool, front and back but requires more juice. LED Encapsulation into a substrate is common to both the leading contenders, it may just be a must have for a videophile screen wall.
Interesting both the SONY Crystal Led (the King in colorimetry , eye comfort and Videophile Nuance) and the not yet revealed “Miami Screen’s”true identity (maybe next CEDIA?) [Taiwanese made jewel] are both 1.2 pixel pitch but you cannot see pixel structure until you are 6 feet from the screen. As I said after looking at Microleds including the .5 LG, the benefits are not many places to be seen in comparison to these 2 reference 1.2s.
The DP, Planar and other Chinese made Led and Microleds lack Sony’s fidelity or the MS’s spectacular coating, they are bare led’s with texture and are not remotely this level of videophile grade, Blofeld (mr. perfectionist) and I have been looking carefully at this. The top 2 wallscreens at the moment are these 1.2 pitch proprietary devices. The Wall is at third for me, and Blofeld has confirmed nowhere near Crystal LED’s giant broadcast monitor look tour-de-force. Will SOLFAR be The C-Sony Crystal Led Penthouse Cinema of the Future? I will not mind it one bit.
Memories of the Very First Faroudja VP-100 serial 00001, VPH 1272, DNP fresnel lenticular 84”, Martin logan Monolith front, Sequel rears, Fosgate (Advanced steering Logic that became PL2).
How time flies, Martin Logan planar tech has a lot in common with ribbons, the rear projection acoustics are now coming back to play with wallscreens, the cycle has come full circle. But the Monoliths could not handle very well the high spl of Indiana Jones Father and Son evading the Mechersmiths’ machine gun bullets. PRO-Ribbon has solved that.
Ok folks that is all for now, all the best. But don’t miss Tony Grimanis Video which I will have someone post. Game changer for the ATMOS TOPS CINEMA SPACING and sidewall acoustical devices asymmetry.. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...l#post58643706
Till next CEDIA!