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post #1 of 232 Old 09-09-2019, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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CEDIA 2019: Impressions & Observations

CEDIA 2019 starts this Thursday. Lets post our impressions, observations, pictures, etc here in this thread! Photos of steak, seafood and wine permitted, too. And first person to post an actual picture at CEDIA of Cineramax wins the no prize!

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post #2 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 01:20 PM
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I'm here early and am checking out a couple manufacturer sessions before the big day tomorrow.

JBL Synthesis has some interesting new products and a few "less" expensive models coming out as they try to expand their marketshare.

Their SDP-55 16 channel (9.1.6) processor has an MSRP of $6,000, but includes a Dante Ethernet audio interface if you want to use that network based transfer protocol, and Dirac Live with upcoming bass calibration update.

Next up: a DTS: X Pro presentation.
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post #3 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Their SDP-55 16 channel (9.1.6) processor has an MSRP of $6,000, but includes a Dante Ethernet audio interface if you want to use that network based transfer protocol, and Dirac Live with upcoming bass calibration update.

Interesting, I'm assuming the SDP-55 is DSP based and not from the Trinnov family.


Any pictures ?

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post #4 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 01:41 PM
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Interesting, I'm assuming the DSP-55 is DSP based and not from the Trinnov family.


Any pictures ?

Since Arcam is part of the harman family wonder if it’s based on that platform (similar to lexicon)
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post #5 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 01:43 PM
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Since Arcam is part of the harman family wonder if it’s based on that platform (similar to lexicon)

I’m sure at that price point it is DSP based but with a good pedigree. Will be interesting to hear what chipset/design they are using.

Not familiar with the Arcam line but I just saw that the Arcam AV860 Series 7.1.4 preamp/processor is priced at $5500 so this 16 channel is coming in at a really competitive price point.

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post #6 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Their SDP-55 16 channel (9.1.6) processor has an MSRP of $6,000, but includes a Dante Ethernet audio interface if you want to use that network based transfer protocol, and Dirac Live with upcoming bass calibration update.

Interesting, I'm assuming the DSP-55 is DSP based and not from the Trinnov family.


Any pictures ?
The front of the case looks like a mini Trinnov. Pics tomorrow when I get on the floor.

They say it's Linux based like their higher end processors. I don't know if it will get a DTS: X Pro update like Monoprice's lower priced HTP-1 processor (that also has a promised updated Dirac Live software). They mentioned the 65 and 75 processors during their spiel, which are definitely Trinnov based. I'll pin them down tomorrow.

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post #7 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
The front of the case looks like a mini Trinnov. Pics tomorrow when I get on the floor.

They say it's Linux based like their higher end processors. I don't know if it will get a DTS: X Pro update like Monoprice's lower priced HTP-1 processor (that also has a promised updated Dirac Live software). They mentioned the 65 and 75 processors during their spiel, which are definitely Trinnov based. I'll pin them down tomorrow.
That makes sense. The SDP-65 is likely a Harmanized Altitude 16.

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post #8 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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So I am opening the door to walk into the convention center this afternoon to get my badge and a guy to my side goals hey Steve open the door for me turns out it was Sean Kelly of panamorph with his wife. He was on his way to the Alcons
Booth to set up a DCR lens. Although I had him as a special guest years ago and recently talked and emailed with him I’ve never met him personally before but he recognized me from my picture when I post on the forum isn’t that hilarious
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post #9 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 07:24 PM
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DTS's presentation was... um... sad?



The big takeaway is what I think most everyone already suspected: DTS: Pro X is a whole lot of Neural: X upmixing to spread out fixed 7.1.4 tracks.



They spent more time on generalized, generic talk of what speakers and home environments should be considered for each kind of system (stuff 99% of the people in the room would already know about) than on real DTS: X Pro or IMAX Enhanced specifics. Kind of like... nothing to see here folks, but I gotta fill 90 or so minutes of yak time.



And there's a lot more Xperi branding in their presentation... as if DTS is just now one tiny slice of a bigger pie... and they know it.



At the "training" session, DTS put the onus on the studios as to why almost no DTS: X tracks contain objects. "It's up to them" was the gist of it. However, it had been discussed by certain insiders here on AVS that it was DTS who had encouraged using 7.1.4 encoding for the home theater tracks and use upmixing for anything greater than that. And their very own mixing/mastering software descriptions only ever discussed rendering out and mastering at 11.1, though you could use objects when in the mixing session.



I'm still of the opinion that DTS never got their 3D object rendering working correctly for home DTS: X and so is having to rely on Neural: X to save their bacon. All this talk of 30.2 is a marketing ploy. For one, they were talking up that you could use DTS: X Pro to fill in speakers that wouldn't normally be used by the various formats, including PCM. Or that potentially even Dolby encoded tracks could use it to spread the sound around. That, my friends, sounds a lot like upmixing more than true 3D rendering like Dolby Atmos.


And then, as I mentioned above, they quickly moved on anything but DTS: X Pro specifics... and spent more time on generic home theater talk and co IMAX partnership licensing agreements with speaker brands, TV manufactures, etc.
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post #10 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 07:26 PM
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Their SDP-55 16 channel (9.1.6) processor has an MSRP of $6,000, but includes a Dante Ethernet audio interface if you want to use that network based transfer protocol, and Dirac Live with upcoming bass calibration update.
Is that price correct?

Logic7?

Anechoic data for JBL speakers?

Release date?

If so...wow. I never would've thought that JBL Synthesis would be the next step up from Monoprice!

(This is the point where someone says, oh, sorry, $16k not $6k, and people like me say cool, but never mind.)
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post #11 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 07:34 PM
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Is that price correct?

Logic7?

Anechoic data for JBL speakers?

Release date?

If so...wow. I never would've thought that JBL Synthesis would be the next step up from Monoprice!

(This is the point where someone says, oh, sorry, $16k not $6k, and people like me say cool, but never mind.)

MSRP of $6,000 (the trick is whether or not you can just buy the Synthesis products outright like a Denon, Yamaha, Monoprice, etc. product anymore as they were talking a lot about having Certified Synthesis dealers and installers and calibrators working on everything to ensure that the JBL Synthesis name meant something "special")


Logic16 proprietary upmixing

ESS Technology's ES9038PRO SABRE Hyperstream2 32 bit DAC's

True 9.1.6 rendering or configurations like 7.5.4 if you wanted Dirac control over multiple subs.

JBL Synthesis speaker/sub family compatibility - whatever that meant.

No hardware updates for channel expansion - you have to move up to the substantially higher 65 or 75 processor model ranges.

Late this year/early next release date. They might have more details tomorrow. I'll ask.
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post #12 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 07:50 PM
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MSRP of $6,000

Logic16 proprietary upmixing

ESS Technology's ES9038PRO SABRE Hyperstream2 32 bit DAC's

True 9.1.6 rendering or configurations like 7.5.4 if you wanted Dirac control over multiple subs.

JBL Synthesis speaker/sub family compatibility - whatever that meant.

No hardware updates for channel expansion - you have to move up to the substantially higher 65 or 75 processor model ranges.

Late this year/early next release date. They might have more details tomorrow. I'll ask.
Oh man, if they can pull that off...

"Synthesis speaker/sub family compatibility should mean that it has built in "anechoic data" (Harman-speak for EQ based on their anechoic measurements) for Synthesis speakers and subs. It might not mean anechoic data for Revel, M2, or 7-Series, for example. Or it might. That is worth asking.
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post #13 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 07:58 PM
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Oh man, if they can pull that off...

"Synthesis speaker/sub family compatibility should mean that it has built in "anechoic data" (Harman-speak for EQ based on their anechoic measurements) for Synthesis speakers and subs. It might not mean anechoic data for Revel, M2, or 7-Series, for example. Or it might. That is worth asking.

It sounds a lot like the Monoprice HTP-1 (except for the Harman upmixer and Synthesis specific compatibility, and Dante networking, of course - but is that worth the almost $2,000 upcharge ?). However, Monoprice has stated they are running their premium 32 bit DAC's in dual-differential mode (dual stereo DAC's per channel). I don't know about the JBL. Their ESS DAC's are a chip with a single block of 8 channels. And they will be getting DTS: X Pro (which is good enough for the expanded Neural: X anyway). I don't know about this JBL model, however. Monoprice also mentioned it will get an HDMI 2.1 board upgrade.


The Monoprice is definitely less expensive, so it will be a battle as to which is the better buy.
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post #14 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 08:04 PM
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Very interesting indeed. I was eyeing the new Monoprice but am a huge JBL/Crown fan and this is much more at my price point than their other offerings
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post #15 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 08:20 PM
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It sounds a lot like the Monoprice HTP-1 (except for the Harman upmixer and Synthesis specific compatibility, and Dante networking, of course - but is that worth the almost $2,000 upcharge ?).
Maybe. For me it depends on how Logic16 upmixing of stereo music compares to Auromatic. Auromatic is simplistic, but sounds pretty good. Logic16 is at this point unknown, though Logic7 was excellent. DSU and neural:X are too wretched for music upmixing to be part of the conversation. DPL2 is, unfortunately, dead, so immersive boxes from the likes of NAD or Emotiva are totally unappealing.

Another thing is, if they offer an expanded universe of Harman anechoic data, you could run JBL M2 or 7-Series speakers without a Crown/Synthesis amp that needs to be in another room because of its nasty fan noise, or a BSS/Synthesis processor that adds an extra AD/DA loop and adds too much fan noise itself.

Dante could adds considerable value in some applications, depending on bus channel count, etc. It opens the possibility of more easily locating amps remotely, or feeding powered monitors with DSP crossovers without adding a superfluous DA/AD loop. It is interesting that Harman is abandoning their proprietary Blu-link for a more universal format, but that's a big positive in my view.

I wonder if there's also an Arcam or Lexicon version without Dante or Synthesis anechoic data. If so, and it's usefully cheaper, then

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However, Monoprice has stated they are running their premium 32 bit DAC's in dual-differential mode (dual stereo DAC's per channel). I don't know about the JBL.
I'm not concerned about inane speck-sheet trifles. Unless ATI or Harman's OEM are abjectly incompetent they will sound the same with signal processing zeroed out. They will sound the same as a Marantz 770x or Yamaha 5x00 either. Abject incompetence is doubtful in the case of ATI, though unfortunately Arcam has in the past shown considerable gaps in their knowledge of modern audio topics, such as bass management and room correction).

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post #16 of 232 Old 09-11-2019, 10:10 PM
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DTS's presentation was... um... sad?

So there was no audio demo?

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post #17 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 12:19 AM
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Would love to hear some thoughts on the new madVR Envy Pro Cinema.
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post #18 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
MSRP of $6,000 (the trick is whether or not you can just buy the Synthesis products outright like a Denon, Yamaha, Monoprice, etc. product anymore as they were talking a lot about having Certified Synthesis dealers and installers and calibrators working on everything to ensure that the JBL Synthesis name meant something "special")


Logic16 proprietary upmixing

ESS Technology's ES9038PRO SABRE Hyperstream2 32 bit DAC's

True 9.1.6 rendering or configurations like 7.5.4 if you wanted Dirac control over multiple subs.

JBL Synthesis speaker/sub family compatibility - whatever that meant.

No hardware updates for channel expansion - you have to move up to the substantially higher 65 or 75 processor model ranges.

Late this year/early next release date. They might have more details tomorrow. I'll ask.

I am interested in this new Dirac Live Bass Management module. So with all the new 16-channel atmos oriented 9.1.6 prepro hitting the market... if you want Dirac Bass to manage your multiple subs to optimize their room performance , you would have to run those prepro as 7.x.4 (x= 4 or 5 subwoofers) ?

I am building a 2 row , 20x15’ theater with only 2 subs. If I use new Dirac Bass, would 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 be a better atmos setup ?


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post #19 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 04:51 AM
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JBL Synthesis site is already updated with their new electronics:

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...ack-US-Current
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post #20 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 05:26 AM
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So there was no audio demo?
Today. Trinnov is demoing it in an audio room.



I was reacting to DTS's pitch spiel at their marketing (training) session yesterday. I think they believe their future mostly rests on licensing fees (along with co-licensing using IMAX as another stream of revenue) as that was the core of their message. The DTS audio technology was at least secondary in their presentation. If you read between the lines of what was said, I don't think DTS: X Pro is really, truthfully gaining you much except for Neural: X as a means of exploding a soundtrack into more than 11.1 speakers.

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post #21 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 05:32 AM
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I am interested in this new Dirac Live Bass Management module. So with all the new 16-channel atmos oriented 9.1.6 prepro hitting the market... if you want Dirac Bass to manage your multiple subs to optimize their room performance , you would have to run those prepro as 7.x.4 (x= 4 or 5 subwoofers) ?

I am building a 2 row , 20x15’ theater with only 2 subs. If I use new Dirac Bass, would 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 be a better atmos setup ?


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Again, I'm not sure of the minute specifics yet. I'll have to lock things down (as much as they'll divulge) on the floor today.
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post #22 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 06:31 AM
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JBL Synthesis site is already updated with their new electronics:

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/product...ack-US-Current
Hmm, my leap from "Synthesis speaker compatibility" to "specific EQ for Synthesis speakers based on anechoic data" may have been premature.

The SDP-75 page contains this line: "Our exclusive Anechoic EQ improves loudspeakers at higher frequencies than can be equalized with high-resolution based only on in-room measurements." The 35/55 pages do not.

Regardless, they look like fantastic units, assuming everything works. Especially if Logic16 pans out. I like that at least 4 of the analog outputs appear to be assignable, Also, all 16 channels on Dante is a pleasant surprise!

I wonder if there will be Lexicon and maybe Arcam variants as well with Logic16. AudioControl traditionally re-faces Arcam units and they just released one that looks like a cousin to the SDP-55. The differences seem to be Logic16 upmixing and Dante in the SDP-55, and balanced analog inputs in the AudioControl.
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post #23 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 06:36 AM
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Hmm, my leap from "Synthesis speaker compatibility" to "specific EQ for Synthesis speakers based on anechoic data" may have been premature.

The SDP-75 page contains this line: "Our exclusive Anechoic EQ improves loudspeakers at higher frequencies than can be equalized with high-resolution based only on in-room measurements." The 35/55 pages do not.

Regardless, they look like fantastic units, assuming everything works. Especially if Logic16 pans out. I like that at least 4 of the analog outputs appear to be assignable, Also, all 16 channels on Dante is a pleasant surprise!

I wonder if there will be Lexicon and maybe Arcam variants as well with Logic16. AudioControl traditionally re-faces Arcam units and they just released one that looks like a cousin to the SDP-55. The differences seem to be Logic16 upmixing and Dante in the SDP-55, and balanced analog inputs in the AudioControl.
At that price point, I figured they would not have all the same features/functionality of the higher priced units. This price range is much more in my sweet spot and there is something to be said for my OCD and having all JBL/Crown equipment in my rack and in my room. You have the JBL M2s as well...right?
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post #24 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 06:43 AM
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Touting Logic16 when Logic7i still isn't working for 5-7 channel sources...

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post #25 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 07:04 AM
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Hmm, my leap from "Synthesis speaker compatibility" to "specific EQ for Synthesis speakers based on anechoic data" may have been premature.

The SDP-75 page contains this line: "Our exclusive Anechoic EQ improves loudspeakers at higher frequencies than can be equalized with high-resolution based only on in-room measurements." The 35/55 pages do not.

Regardless, they look like fantastic units, assuming everything works. Especially if Logic16 pans out. I like that at least 4 of the analog outputs appear to be assignable, Also, all 16 channels on Dante is a pleasant surprise!

I wonder if there will be Lexicon and maybe Arcam variants as well with Logic16. AudioControl traditionally re-faces Arcam units and they just released one that looks like a cousin to the SDP-55. The differences seem to be Logic16 upmixing and Dante in the SDP-55, and balanced analog inputs in the AudioControl.
Yea, the SNR specs look like Arcam units. Combined with the SDR-35 having "Class G", it's likely these are based on a new Arcam platform.

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post #26 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
At that price point, I figured they would not have all the same features/functionality of the higher priced units. This price range is much more in my sweet spot and there is something to be said for my OCD and having all JBL/Crown equipment in my rack and in my room. You have the JBL M2s as well...right?
No M2s here. Too big for my needs, and too industrial looking. I have 7-series speakers on hand, but for a variety of reasons practical and aesthetic they are not in current use.

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Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
Touting Logic16 when Logic7i still isn't working for 5-7 channel sources...
Can you elaborate? I'm not familiar with Logic 7i. Is that in the current Lexicam AVRs and pre-pros?

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post #27 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 07:38 AM
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Yea, the SNR specs look like Arcam units. Combined with the SDR-35 having "Class G", it's likely these are based on a new Arcam platform.
That inference is bolstered by the striking similarities between these JBL Synthesis units and the new AudioControls. AudioControl has long refaced Arcams. AudioControl does not have Logic16 or Dante, but adds balanced ins.

Arcam and Lexicon pages don't have the new units up yet. Harman's differentiation strategy here will be interesting, and perhaps revealed shortly.

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post #28 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 08:08 AM
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I am interested in this new Dirac Live Bass Management module. So with all the new 16-channel atmos oriented 9.1.6 prepro hitting the market... if you want Dirac Bass to manage your multiple subs to optimize their room performance , you would have to run those prepro as 7.x.4 (x= 4 or 5 subwoofers) ?

I am building a 2 row , 20x15’ theater with only 2 subs. If I use new Dirac Bass, would 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 be a better atmos setup ?


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Yes, each sub would need its own channel. I personally would go for 9.2.4, I like wides much more than TMs.

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post #29 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 08:41 AM
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Personally I am loving all these new updates to the processors across the board! Very exciting news and I'd love to have a synthesis piece finally be my front end unit...Even though I am close with the Lex, it's not quite the same.
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post #30 of 232 Old 09-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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Logic16 proprietary upmixing

This could be BIG; I wonder if it's the stillborn (at least for consumers) Quantum Logic resurrected.

And then DTS X Pro, which I don't see mentioned, would be irrelevant.
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