Ascendo Immersive Audio - Very Impressive Sonically! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 28 Old 10-05-2019, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Ascendo Immersive Audio - Very Impressive Sonically!

I commented on Ascendo in the CEDIA thread at this forum. Little did I realize that I have already heard their speakers and really like them.
Read on for the twist!

At CEDIA 2019 last month Ascendo Immersive Audio had a static display by the Trinnov Triad demo. Coaxial speakers with subwoofers including one on display 32”. Out of Germany. They will be partnering with Trinnov in Connecticut on a project. Per your theater design they can custom make and angle speakers towards the MLP. As to how they sound we will probably find out in the next year or two.

https://www.aia-cinema.com/[/QUOTE]

Jon Herron of Trinnov further elaborated re Ascendo: "I know these look like "single driver" speakers but they are not. They are coaxial, with the HF drivers located under an acoustically transparent "dust cap" in the center of the woofer. The specifics vary from one model to the next, but they are quite sophisticated and are all biamped. Most importantly, the coaxial design means that the off-axis performance is quite uniform in all directions… which cannot be said about other designs. We are planning to employ them in our CT training/demo facility. Most of them will be biamped by the Altitude and Amplitude amps; the subs and the LCRs will be bi-amped with built-in xovers and amps. The plan is for an 11.5.8 system. And yes, the use of VESA mounts will make it easy to aim the speakers into the listening area, something we feel is quite important. (The alternative being angled baffles.)"

Today I got together with one of my best friends. long time audiophile Lon. We did some listening to his stereo system. All I knew was that his speakers were some odd European vintage out of a dealer out East and that very few of his speakers were around in the U.S., and that on the rear they had an additional tweeter for ambience. I also knew that I like his system and his speakers sound very very nice.

So we're driving back from an audiophile get together and talking. I start telling him about this interesting coaxial driver speaker at CEDIA that will be partnering with Trinnov and how they can be customized for a theater with lotsa speakers and Trinnov! I tell him the name. And he says how do you spell it. I tell him. And he says his speakers are Ascendo C8s. about 6-7 years old!

Sure enough. I've been listening to Lon's Ascendo's for several years. HA! Today, we did a little something we hadn't done before. We played some Yuko Mabuchi Plays Miles Davis listening with the ambience tweeter pointing out the rear of the speaker on and off. Nice touch! That extra ambience and sonics from the additional tweeter certainly improves the sonics and makes it more like good live music as far as I'm concerned.

Below are photos of Ascendo at CEDIA 2019; and of Lon's stereo system with Ascendo C8s.

Again, I must say Lon's system is very, very musical and his Ascendo's image very nicely!
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Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #2 of 28 Old 10-08-2019, 08:07 AM
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Gotta ask... what are the 5 dots framing his TV?
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post #3 of 28 Old 10-08-2019, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bigus View Post
Gotta ask... what are the 5 dots framing his TV?
One of his tweaks for his stereo no doubt!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #4 of 28 Old 10-08-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Most of them will be biamped by the Altitude and Amplitude amps; the subs and the LCRs will be bi-amped with built-in xovers and amps.
I wonder what the reason is going part passive and part active. I can't see any advantage going with passive speakers for everything except LCR unless it's running power cables or they want to use the CCMP5 which isn't available as an active version.

In addition to what you said, the cinema series is quite different in comparison to their "normal" speakers. There's no back-firing driving, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

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post #5 of 28 Old 10-08-2019, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
I wonder what the reason is going part passive and part active. I can't see any advantage going with passive speakers for everything except LCR unless it's running power cables or they want to use the CCMP5 which isn't available as an active version.

In addition to what you said, the cinema series is quite different in comparison to their "normal" speakers. There's no back-firing driving, but I don't think that's a bad thing.
Lon's Ascendo C8s are passive speakers.

He has been using a Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 the past few years http://lyngdorf.com/tdai-2170/ which includes the amplification. However, he does have tube amps laying around and he is thinking of trying them with the 2170.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #6 of 28 Old 10-08-2019, 10:13 AM
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Sorry, was referring to the cinema system with Trinnov for the active/passiv mix. I'll ask the Ascendo guys next month.

- Stephan
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post #7 of 28 Old 10-08-2019, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
I wonder what the reason is going part passive and part active. I can't see any advantage going with passive speakers for everything except LCR unless it's running power cables or they want to use the CCMP5 which isn't available as an active version.

In addition to what you said, the cinema series is quite different in comparison to their "normal" speakers. There's no back-firing driving, but I don't think that's a bad thing.
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Sorry, was referring to the cinema system with Trinnov for the active/passiv mix. I'll ask the Ascendo guys next month.
I think using active speakers at minimum up front, and passive speakers ceiling especially for Dolby Atmos/DTS-X, maybe more a question of keeping the costs more reasonable. And say for ceiling speakers passive speakers aren't as large and can be more easily installed, especially for existing rooms and theatres.

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #8 of 28 Old 10-09-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I commented on Ascendo in the CEDIA thread at this forum. Little did I realize that I have already heard their speakers and really like them.
Read on for the twist!

At CEDIA 2019 last month Ascendo Immersive Audio had a static display by the Trinnov Triad demo. Coaxial speakers with subwoofers including one on display 32”. Out of Germany. They will be partnering with Trinnov in Connecticut on a project. Per your theater design they can custom make and angle speakers towards the MLP. As to how they sound we will probably find out in the next year or two.
Great group of guys. I calibrated their first showing at CEDIA a couple years back, and it didn't take long to realize these guys "are awake", as @jamin would say.
jamin likes this.

Adam Pelz ,Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
JBL Master ARCOS Calibrator, CEDIA Designer, Home Acoustics Alliance Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video, Level III Trinnov Altitude Calibrator
Mercenary Calibrator for Manufacturers, Integrators and System Owners
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post #9 of 28 Old 10-09-2019, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by appelz View Post
Great group of guys. I calibrated their first showing at CEDIA a couple years back, and it didn't take long to realize these guys "are awake", as @jamin would say.
And once the Trinnov - Ascendo demo theatre is Connecticut is done I bet you get to calibrate it. SWEET!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #10 of 28 Old 10-09-2019, 11:13 PM
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I heard the station wagon StormAudio / Ascendo, it was just a dream, very dynamic.
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post #11 of 28 Old 10-10-2019, 02:27 PM
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The best part of reading this thread (for me) was finding this monster sub: https://www.aia-cinema.com/active-speakers/smsg50.html
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Originally Posted by Unherdable View Post
The best part of reading this thread (for me) was finding this monster sub: https://www.aia-cinema.com/active-speakers/smsg50.html
Wonder what the retail MSRP is on that beast!!!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #13 of 28 Old 10-14-2019, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't make CEDIA 2016 and just found out they had a home theater demo at CEDIA 2016:

https://www.avsforum.com/ascendo-imm...peaker-system/

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #14 of 28 Old 10-26-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Wonder what the retail MSRP is on that beast!!!
€68.000 or ~$75.000 USD. That buys you the best subwoofer in the world according to a recent review in a german AV magazine. Lower cutoff frequency is at under 7Hz, they could not fully measure the output, as their microphone was limited to 120dB and the room could not take more.

Are you going to place an order?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
€68.000 or ~$75.000 USD. That buys you the best subwoofer in the world according to a recent review in a german AV magazine. Lower cutoff frequency is at under 7Hz, they could not fully measure the output, as their microphone was limited to 120dB and the room could not take more.

Are you going to place an order?
I [email protected]@@

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #16 of 28 Old 10-27-2019, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
We played some Yuko Mabuchi Plays Miles Davis listening with the ambience tweeter pointing out the rear of the speaker on and off.

Thanks for the recommendation. Found it on Qobuz.
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post #18 of 28 Old 10-27-2019, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ You need four of those Steve!!
We all need four of those and a home theatre room the size of an audiotorium to fit them in!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #19 of 28 Old 10-27-2019, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the recommendation. Found it on Qobuz.
Yuko Mabuchi has two albums out. Here's the first one, at NativeDSD.com, where you can buy both the 2 channel and multi-channel version of both of her albums. Note if you buy the two channel version, you can also get the multi-channel version for like less than $2 more!


https://yarlungrecords.nativedsd.com...o-mabuchi-trio

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #20 of 28 Old 10-29-2019, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a very Ascendo Swiss home theater with Trinnov Altitude 32 and gobs of Ascendo subwoofers and speakers:

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...le-and-stealth

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.

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post #21 of 28 Old 11-09-2019, 09:01 AM
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That's a nice theater. Keep the Ascedo stuff coming.

I was a little short on time today at a show, but managed to listen to a pair of Ascendo Live 15 a little while.
It can play loud, probably not "Peter-loud", but still at levels that I personally wouldn't listen to for longer periods of time. Very dynamic, great soundstage, but the rest was destroyed by the room. The front was all glass, so was the right side, the rest was wood and reflective material. Could clearly hear room issues in that setup. To be fair, all the manufacturers had the same problems. The rooms in this specific location are just not made for audio demos. There were a few moments I was really wowed by it, and then boomy bass kicked in and destroyed it. There's only so much one can do with room correction, the rest has to be done by treating the room. Will certainly try to listen to these again in a proper room, because when the room allowed it, they played really good.

In addition I spoke to Stefan Köpf (Ascendo) about the CCRM series, possible setups of speaker configuration, calibration and so on. Will have to email him to get a full price list and some additional info/plots on speaker dispersion. He didn't have any news on the Trinnov AVB option, but the reason for going with a active/passive mix for the Trinnov Connecticut installation is not price or ease of installation.

I will also try to visit their HQ/demo in Ansbach in the "near future". Probably not this year anymore, but hopefully early next year. That's also a good opportunity to listen to (or feel?) all their seismic subs, including the 50" one. The demo room doesn't look like much, but in the end, what matters is sound quality (https://www.aia-cinema.com/reference...mo-cinema.html).
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Live 15 is a dream. StormAudio has the AVB option, so Ascedo has had a good experience with it.
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post #23 of 28 Old 11-10-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
€68.000 or ~$75.000 USD. That buys you the best subwoofer in the world according to a recent review in a german AV magazine. Lower cutoff frequency is at under 7Hz, they could not fully measure the output, as their microphone was limited to 120dB and the room could not take more.

Are you going to place an order?
In almost every instal ive seen, multiple subs was key to a good response. No matter how much output a single driver has one would still need a balancing sub or two, unless its a single seat theater, or "selfish bastard seat".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
€68.000 or ~$75.000 USD. That buys you the best subwoofer in the world according to a recent review in a german AV magazine. Lower cutoff frequency is at under 7Hz, they could not fully measure the output, as their microphone was limited to 120dB and the room could not take more.

Are you going to place an order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
In almost every instal ive seen, multiple subs was key to a good response. No matter how much output a single driver has one would still need a balancing sub or two, unless its a single seat theater, or "selfish bastard seat".
I agree! Of course, the Ascendo 50" sub is perhaps more for show - if one does an Ascendo home theater, multiple smaller Ascendo subs would be the answer!

Theater Renovation: 3 Aerial Acoustics 7ts & 6 7LCRs; 13 Triad Rotating Silver/9 Sat; 9 Seaton 21" sealed subwoofers; Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP; 3 Theta Digital Prometheus, Trinnov Amplitude 8 & 8M, and ATI AT526NC amplifiers; Sony VW5000 projector; Lumagen Radiance Pro; Panamorph DCR lens; Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope 14' wide 2.40 SnoMatte 100 screen; Kaleidescape & Pioneer UDP-LX500 4k players; Apple TV 4k; TIVO Bolt OTA.
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post #25 of 28 Old 11-10-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
In almost every instal ive seen, multiple subs was key to a good response. No matter how much output a single driver has one would still need a balancing sub or two, unless its a single seat theater, or "selfish bastard seat".
I guess most people with the room for such a sub and the will to put down the cash will have no problem buying multiple. For most theaters, even on AVS, such subs would probably make the room explode. Real cinemas or concert halls are another story.

For a normal installation, you'd be much better off with multiple of their 15/24/32 inch subs. Just keep in mind that you can easily replace multiple "normal" 18" subs with a single 32" due to high excursion (900mm, if I remember correctly).
Personally I'd stick to multiple 15".

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post #26 of 28 Old 11-10-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
I agree! Of course, the Ascendo 50" sub is perhaps more for show - if one does an Ascendo home theater, multiple smaller Ascendo subs would be the answer!
Indeed, almost a conversation piece! I too was at CEDIA at walked by there both. I must say they seem like a great company.

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Originally Posted by Stephan View Post
I guess most people with the room for such a sub and the will to put down the cash will have no problem buying multiple. For most theaters, even on AVS, such subs would probably make the room explode. Real cinemas or concert halls are another story.

For a normal installation, you'd be much better off with multiple of their 15/24/32 inch subs. Just keep in mind that you can easily replace multiple "normal" 18" subs with a single 32" due to high excursion (900mm, if I remember correctly).
Personally I'd stick to multiple 15".
It wouldn't make it explode lol but I know your mostly joking. Its one of those things were yes any serious instal or build will be of multiples.

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post #27 of 28 Old 11-13-2019, 02:05 AM
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No matter how much output a single driver has one would still need a balancing sub or two, unless its a single seat theater, or "selfish bastard seat".
... or unless that one sub is exclusively used for the ultra low end where the room is too small to generate any resonance below its low pass filter...

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post #28 of 28 Old 11-13-2019, 07:05 PM
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... or unless that one sub is exclusively used for the ultra low end where the room is too small to generate any resonance below its low pass filter...
There's always an "unless" like I said. Just depends on a lot of things. You could do that and its still localizable even tho predicitions may say otherwise. Ive seen it lots of times. Or its ok in 1 seat but not the rest. If only one seat was needed it would be ok.

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