What SPL level have you calibrated your setup to? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 39 Old 06-28-2020, 04:34 PM
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What about bone conduction of bass?I.E. I wonder if my risk of hearing loss will be less if i turn down my ib subs to a lower level but supplement with bone conduction from a boss system for frequencies of four hertz to sixty hertz?

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post #32 of 39 Old 06-29-2020, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CptSpig View Post
The seven series speakers are amazing but need to have the DSP files to sound right.
Do the self-powered versions of these also need the DSP files?
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post #33 of 39 Old 06-29-2020, 05:50 AM
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75db for me, utilizing Radio Shack Analog Meter, after performing the Audyssey MultEQ® XT32 setup.

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post #34 of 39 Old 06-29-2020, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptSpig View Post
The seven series speakers are amazing but need to have the DSP files to sound right.
Do the self-powered versions of these also need the DSP files?
No, the tuning files are in the amps.

Last edited by CptSpig; 06-29-2020 at 08:28 AM.
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post #35 of 39 Old 06-29-2020, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I don't follow anything close to that. I'd need to look at more of that document, beyond just a chart to determine it's purpose, but I don't think it would apply to home theaters. We *have* an industry accepted guideline for how to set Reference Level.

Reference Level is a simple concept. First, Main speakers must be capable of hitting 105dB peaks at the listening position, and subs are required to attain 115dB peaks. I've seen some Dolby references for commercial theaters that suggest slightly lower requirements for surrounds, but those rooms often have arrays of surrounds. In a state-of-the-art private cinema, we have many discrete channels, so I design systems for 105dB all around. That said, many consumer rooms don't reach that criteria. Soft dome tweeters are rarely capable of that SPL without distortion. Such systems need high sensitivity speakers with high power handling capabilities, and large amplifiers to match, and I like to have some headroom above that.

Our hearing isn't linear, so we need a reference level to make sure that we have a consistent playback level among different systems. In the professional world, a test signal (pink noise, usually bandwidth limited) is recorded at -20dB relative to full scale (0dB) and is noted as -20Dbfs. That signal is played back through the system with the Volume set to 0 or whatever the appropriate reference level is for the audio processor. Then, each channel is individually adjusted to read 85dB at the listening position. Then, when a movie is played back, with the Master Volume set to 0, the Left channel peaks at 105dB. (85+20=105)

In the consumer world, 85dB was considered too loud, so the pink noise is recorded at -30dBfs, so we set our individual speaker levels to measure 75dB.

Note : Very few people actually listen at Reference. First, if their system isn't capable, it just sounds really really bad. Second..yup, that is loud, although in an well-engineered system volume levels can sneak up on you. And in a full Atmos system, with a dozen or more speakers all firing near Reference... I have some software that measures my noise level exposure over time during calibration sessions.

So now back to the problem; our hearing isn't linear. We don't hear all of the same frequencies equally at different volume levels. Most of my clients are enthusiasts, and listen to content at roughly the same volume, but if I have a client who listens at lower levels, I will make a compensation in the frequency response, but none of that has anything to with what is Reference Level. That is also part of the reason why I will set up a Movies Preset and a Movies Action Preset, along with a Music Preset. Typically different volume levels for each of those, so the frequency response may need to be tweaked.
Thanks.

Would you say a 105 dB peak at the MLP in a large room will sound the same as a 105 dB peak at the MLP in a small room?
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post #36 of 39 Old 06-30-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks.

Would you say a 105 dB peak at the MLP in a large room will sound the same as a 105 dB peak at the MLP in a small room?
I think we would want to make a distinction between what is a large room compared to a small room, but I would absolutely expect it to sound different. A couple things are happening. First, we have the dissipation from the air, which is actually two components, comprising the damping of SPL over distance along with the attenuation/dissipation of frequencies. The first is non-frequency dependent while the second case is. In small rooms, we are also dealing with a very different acoustical energy with all of the shorter reflection times which affect decay rate, and our brain knows the difference.

So if we are talking about sound with a large spectral component, say generated noise or music/movies, I would expect to hear a substantial difference between rooms of greatly differing size, acoustical treatments, quantity of large salt water based absorbers (humans), seats etc. The concert hall where I was the Technical Director for 12 years was designed to have periaktoi built into the walls so panels with different acoustical properties could be configured quickly for different shows (symphony, organ, plays, concerts, spoken word etc), as well as seats designed to be acoustically similar to a body if a show was lightly attended.

So yes, spectrally I would expect to hear a difference, and our earsbrain will recognize large vs small, but 105dB is 105dB, so I don't think it would sound louder or quieter.

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post #37 of 39 Old 07-06-2020, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post
I think we would want to make a distinction between what is a large room compared to a small room, but I would absolutely expect it to sound different. A couple things are happening. First, we have the dissipation from the air, which is actually two components, comprising the damping of SPL over distance along with the attenuation/dissipation of frequencies. The first is non-frequency dependent while the second case is. In small rooms, we are also dealing with a very different acoustical energy with all of the shorter reflection times which affect decay rate, and our brain knows the difference.

So if we are talking about sound with a large spectral component, say generated noise or music/movies, I would expect to hear a substantial difference between rooms of greatly differing size, acoustical treatments, quantity of large salt water based absorbers (humans), seats etc. The concert hall where I was the Technical Director for 12 years was designed to have periaktoi built into the walls so panels with different acoustical properties could be configured quickly for different shows (symphony, organ, plays, concerts, spoken word etc), as well as seats designed to be acoustically similar to a body if a show was lightly attended.

So yes, spectrally I would expect to hear a difference, and our earsbrain will recognize large vs small, but 105dB is 105dB, so I don't think it would sound louder or quieter.
Thanks.

Nearly everywhere I read, they say that larger rooms are usually always preferred over smaller rooms. Would you agree with this? Are there any advantages that smaller rooms have over larger ones (maybe other than the fact that you can get away with smaller/lower SPL speakers as the listening distances are shorter/closer)? Also, I've read that small square or small almost square rooms are a big "no no" for audio. Would you agree with this too?
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post #38 of 39 Old 07-06-2020, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Thanks.

Nearly everywhere I read, they say that larger rooms are usually always preferred over smaller rooms. Would you agree with this? Are there any advantages that smaller rooms have over larger ones (maybe other than the fact that you can get away with smaller/lower SPL speakers as the listening distances are shorter/closer)? Also, I've read that small square or small almost square rooms are a big "no no" for audio. Would you agree with this too?
I would agree that larger rooms are preferred. SPL is more even across the listening area in larger rooms. There is a sense of space that in my experience really helps with immersion. Off the top of my head, the primary benefit to smaller rooms is cost, as you mentioned. Bigger rooms need more horsepower for audio and video, along with the other build-out costs that increase.

Square rooms, or even just rooms where dimensions are multiples (such as 16x24x8) end up having room modes that stack. Proper placement of subs and judicious use of PEQ can mitigate some of the problems though, so I wouldn't say a square room is a death sentence for room acoustics, although that was once considered to be the case.

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post #39 of 39 Old 07-06-2020, 06:17 PM
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I love the larger sense of scale that a big room bring can bring to the table. As said that sense of space.
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