Should I Change from Snomatte to Studiotech G4 Screen Material? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 45 Old 05-15-2020, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Jeff,
Corona Austerity aside... I am very satisfied with my setup for now and glad we finished all the upgrades before the **it hit the fan. Can you imagine getting calibrators builders etc out for you if you were in the middle of the construction.

Ash
You mean like me, as I am in the middle of (re)construction of my upgraded/renovated theater!

I am patiently living with my basement 5.1 Polk in wall with 65" 2019 LG OLED meanwhile!
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post #32 of 45 Old 05-15-2020, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Steve,
Coming from my post Corona Austerity mindset and my older and more patient years.... Stewart Screen material is so easy to change - in my case on Vistacope there are a bunch of bungee chords to pull out and replace the new screen.
I would stay with he ST 100 and see how bright a picture you get - I am fully satisfied but with 100 laser - and mine is AT - so yours will be much brighter than mine.
You can always order the G4 material and change - you can do it with with your grandson it is that easy and light.
Ash
Actually once the screen frame was all hung and attached to the wall, it took four of us and several ladders to slowly unroll the screen and attach the clips. I don't think my grandson and I will be able to do it. HA! But my installer with a few helpers not a big deal and won't take long!
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post #33 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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More propaganda for me to spend more $$$:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Let me preface this by saying I'm not prone to hyperbole, and I always protect against confirmation bias. I've made HT purchases that I'd like to have back for sure, and I've said so. Also, I'm not a Stewart screen fanboy, even though I've owned three of them. I looked VERY hard at Seymour, Screen Inovations, and others during this search for a new screen. They all make solid screens and are worthy of their respective success.

Ultimately I chose to replace my 110-inch Studiotek 130 screen with......a 120-inch version of the same 16:9 screen, but with the new G4 material. I just didn't see an image anywhere I looked as good as the ST130 I already had, so I chose to stick with it. The G4 material was intriguing, though I didn't expect much of a perceptible difference.

Wow. After a couple of days of intense torture testing, I now know that this isn't a just a "slight" improvement. This G4 material is the real damn deal.

Again, I loved my old screen, so I primarily hoped that this new G4 material would provide just a bit of brightness to account for the larger screen, so that I could reach close to the same level of brightness I'm accustomed to.

Not only did it retain the brightness, it increased it. So much so that I've had to go into my Panasonic UB820 and reduce the dynamic slider for both my SDR2020 and HDR settings (my JVC was calibrated by ChadB). My SDR2020 was at +2, and I reduced it to 0. Might even knock it down another notch. The HDR level was +4, and that's now at +1.

Additionally, HDR gets a marked improvement as a result of the brightness capabilities of the G4 material. So much so that I'm seriously considering ditching SDR2020 because the HDR levels now don't lack the brightness in dark scenes like before. That will require more testing and time.

Overall color also got a shot in the arm. It's just deeper and more dynamic. Hard to really put into words.

Lastly, the sparkle is reduced. It never really distracted me before because the G3 material didn't have much, but it's certainly lessened by the G4. I think you notice it most on sky or cloud scenes. It looks smoother, more reminiscent of the ST100 material.

I'm telling you, there is a meaningful difference, and it's more apparent the more test it with familiar material.

Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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post #34 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
More propaganda for me to spend more $$$:
My sincere apologies, Steve.
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post #35 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
My sincere apologies, Steve.
Accepted. Though I'm still waiting for an apology from Kris Deering - its really all his fault. HA!

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post #36 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Accepted. Though I'm still waiting for an apology from Kris Deering - its really all his fault. HA!
Steve,
After my torture test of the G4 video on my iMac 27 inch screen - I highly recommend this screen material.
This is especially recommended because I don't have to pay for it
Just Kidding - you are a rationale person when it comes to your HT (how many subs do you have?) and will take a prudent decision despite my expert opinion.
Ash
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post #37 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Steve,
After my torture test of the G4 video on my iMac 27 inch screen - I highly recommend this screen material.
This is especially recommended because I don't have to pay for it
Just Kidding - you are a rationale person when it comes to your HT (how many subs do you have?) and will take a prudent decision despite my expert opinion.
Ash
Saying I'm "rational" is far too kind. I have "rationale" for spending $$ on this addiction but I don't know that I act "rationally"! The new G4 screen material is much brighter, and perhaps more "rational", than I am.
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post #38 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
More propaganda for me to spend more $$$:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Let me preface this by saying I'm not prone to hyperbole, and I always protect against confirmation bias. I've made HT purchases that I'd like to have back for sure, and I've said so. Also, I'm not a Stewart screen fanboy, even though I've owned three of them. I looked VERY hard at Seymour, Screen Inovations, and others during this search for a new screen. They all make solid screens and are worthy of their respective success.

Ultimately I chose to replace my 110-inch Studiotek 130 screen with......a 120-inch version of the same 16:9 screen, but with the new G4 material. I just didn't see an image anywhere I looked as good as the ST130 I already had, so I chose to stick with it. The G4 material was intriguing, though I didn't expect much of a perceptible difference.

Wow. After a couple of days of intense torture testing, I now know that this isn't a just a "slight" improvement. This G4 material is the real damn deal.

Again, I loved my old screen, so I primarily hoped that this new G4 material would provide just a bit of brightness to account for the larger screen, so that I could reach close to the same level of brightness I'm accustomed to.

Not only did it retain the brightness, it increased it. So much so that I've had to go into my Panasonic UB820 and reduce the dynamic slider for both my SDR2020 and HDR settings (my JVC was calibrated by ChadB). My SDR2020 was at +2, and I reduced it to 0. Might even knock it down another notch. The HDR level was +4, and that's now at +1.

Additionally, HDR gets a marked improvement as a result of the brightness capabilities of the G4 material. So much so that I'm seriously considering ditching SDR2020 because the HDR levels now don't lack the brightness in dark scenes like before. That will require more testing and time.

Overall color also got a shot in the arm. It's just deeper and more dynamic. Hard to really put into words.

Lastly, the sparkle is reduced. It never really distracted me before because the G3 material didn't have much, but it's certainly lessened by the G4. I think you notice it most on sky or cloud scenes. It looks smoother, more reminiscent of the ST100 material.

I'm telling you, there is a meaningful difference, and it's more apparent the more test it with familiar material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
My sincere apologies, Steve.
Erod, I don't know if you know this, but Stewart Filmscreen just emailed their dealers discussing the new G4 screen material and giving a link to your above referenced review at AVS Forum! You are now famous!
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post #39 of 45 Old 05-26-2020, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
More propaganda for me to spend more $$$:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Let me preface this by saying I'm not prone to hyperbole, and I always protect against confirmation bias. I've made HT purchases that I'd like to have back for sure, and I've said so. Also, I'm not a Stewart screen fanboy, even though I've owned three of them. I looked VERY hard at Seymour, Screen Inovations, and others during this search for a new screen. They all make solid screens and are worthy of their respective success.

Ultimately I chose to replace my 110-inch Studiotek 130 screen with......a 120-inch version of the same 16:9 screen, but with the new G4 material. I just didn't see an image anywhere I looked as good as the ST130 I already had, so I chose to stick with it. The G4 material was intriguing, though I didn't expect much of a perceptible difference.

Wow. After a couple of days of intense torture testing, I now know that this isn't a just a "slight" improvement. This G4 material is the real damn deal.

Again, I loved my old screen, so I primarily hoped that this new G4 material would provide just a bit of brightness to account for the larger screen, so that I could reach close to the same level of brightness I'm accustomed to.

Not only did it retain the brightness, it increased it. So much so that I've had to go into my Panasonic UB820 and reduce the dynamic slider for both my SDR2020 and HDR settings (my JVC was calibrated by ChadB). My SDR2020 was at +2, and I reduced it to 0. Might even knock it down another notch. The HDR level was +4, and that's now at +1.

Additionally, HDR gets a marked improvement as a result of the brightness capabilities of the G4 material. So much so that I'm seriously considering ditching SDR2020 because the HDR levels now don't lack the brightness in dark scenes like before. That will require more testing and time.

Overall color also got a shot in the arm. It's just deeper and more dynamic. Hard to really put into words.

Lastly, the sparkle is reduced. It never really distracted me before because the G3 material didn't have much, but it's certainly lessened by the G4. I think you notice it most on sky or cloud scenes. It looks smoother, more reminiscent of the ST100 material.

I'm telling you, there is a meaningful difference, and it's more apparent the more test it with familiar material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
My sincere apologies, Steve.
Erod, I don't know if you know this, but Stewart Filmscreen just emailed their dealers discussing the new G4 screen material and giving a link to your above referenced review at AVS Forum! You are now famous!
Lol, no kidding? How'd you find out?

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
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post #40 of 45 Old Yesterday, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Lol, no kidding? How'd you find out?
My installer is a Stewart Filmscreen dealer, we had been discussing the G4, and this AM he got the email from Stewart Filmscreen to dealers with the AVS Forum link to your post! HA!
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post #41 of 45 Old Yesterday, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
If for you the G4's sheen texture is easy to ignore it will be for me for sure! Besides the fact that given I'm not that bright I can always use some more brightness!

Seriously I will look into changing out to the G4, as one can always use added brightness for HDR (which I will certainly get as I ad the DCR lens and if I also change to G4); and as I continue to log hours onto my projector, as the laser slowly dims I certainly won't notice as much. I do like to watch regular tv shows as well as KScape and 4k disc movies so I log about 1500 hours annually on my projector (but none since last August as my theater is down for renovation & upgrade).

Kris, when my upgrade & renovation is done, and Covid-19 clears sufficiently that you feel same to fly and come out to then calibrate my video (certainly some months away), it will be great to meet you!
I upgraded to the ST130 G4 here and absolutely love it. The texture is totally invisible until you're projecting a huge splotch of pure white or such and even then its really mild. I can go days several viewing sessions and never see a texture at all.

For me, I got the 130 over the 100 due to my projector. On the RS4500, you can close the iris down and increase contrast. The G130 material added brightness so I could close my iris down more and get improved contrast. That's why I went 130 over 100 here.

If you go to stewart's website and use the contact form, you can request a sample of the G4 material for free. I had a 130 and 100 sample here I use to tape up to the screen and compare.

Not only is the ST130 brighter, but if I project a pure white screen and stand next to the screen, I can see the pixel grid sharper than my old screen. I am not sure how much this sharpness increase translates across the room, but at least knowing it's there means something to me.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" ST130 G4 screen in batcave, htpc nvidia 1080ti madVR.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, Infinite Baffle Subs 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 2x12 fi audio mounted in main chair firing into back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Saying I'm "rational" is far too kind. I have "rationale" for spending $$ on this addiction but I don't know that I act "rationally"! The new G4 screen material is much brighter, and perhaps more "rational", than I am.
30% brighter picture is enticing - after all the time and money you have spent in this fabulous upgrade.
Will be very interested how it handles speckle - that was my gripe with the ST 130 but mine was like Generation 1. So as reported if the picture retains the pureness of a Snomatte 100 and has no speckle with 30% more brightness... that is progress and expected from Stewart.
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I had a 1.3 gain Studiotek and prefer the Snomatte for sure.

G4 sounds great but in reading Kris's review, it sounds like there is some speckling albeit less but worth the trade off (at least my interpretation of his 'in between the lines' thoughts).

I don't like anything that brings me out of the movie, so I'd likely stay with my Snomatte. Ignorance is bliss and I think my screen is plenty bright with little video aberrations.

Good luck!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #44 of 45 Old Yesterday, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I had a 1.3 gain Studiotek and prefer the Snomatte for sure.

G4 sounds great but in reading Kris's review, it sounds like there is some speckling albeit less but worth the trade off (at least my interpretation of his 'in between the lines' thoughts).

I don't like anything that brings me out of the movie, so I'd likely stay with my Snomatte. Ignorance is bliss and I think my screen is plenty bright with little video aberrations.

Good luck!
I agree. Ignorance is bliss. HA!

However, my theater has been down since last August; and I want to get the audio calibrated by Adam and the video calibrated by Kris and its all done, ENJOY, no more changes! So the idea of getting the video 30% brighter with no perceivable drawback that I will notice is 100% appealing! I do not want to wait for G5!

Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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post #45 of 45 Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I upgraded to the ST130 G4 here and absolutely love it. The texture is totally invisible until you're projecting a huge splotch of pure white or such and even then its really mild. I can go days several viewing sessions and never see a texture at all.

For me, I got the 130 over the 100 due to my projector. On the RS4500, you can close the iris down and increase contrast. The G130 material added brightness so I could close my iris down more and get improved contrast. That's why I went 130 over 100 here.

If you go to stewart's website and use the contact form, you can request a sample of the G4 material for free. I had a 130 and 100 sample here I use to tape up to the screen and compare.

Not only is the ST130 brighter, but if I project a pure white screen and stand next to the screen, I can see the pixel grid sharper than my old screen. I am not sure how much this sharpness increase translates across the room, but at least knowing it's there means something to me
.
You're having much the same experience as I am, and your last point is a good one. With the finer texture of the grain used for the gain, the grid is indeed sharper to the eye up close to the screen.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
Audio: Anthem AVM60 preamp, Anthem MCA525 amp, B&K Reference 125.7 amp
Subs: dual SVS PC-12 cylinders
Speakers: RBH SV-661R and SV-661CR fronts, Jamo 626k4 side/rear surrounds, DefTech DI6.5R heights
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