The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 178 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5311 of 7282 Old 01-15-2018, 07:39 PM
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I would just go for good ceiling speakers and not worry about matching to the Maggies -- they really won't, but probably not a big deal. Coming from the ceiling will give a much different sound stage and image, but for Atmos speakers I suspect (do not know, do not have Atmos) they will be fine, especially since you are already well-Magne'fied for the rears.

When I had my main L/R Magnepans first set up I was using Mirage OmniSats as surrounds and rears. I thought their more omni pattern would suit the Maggies decently. However, I found the floor-to-ceiling ('ish) sound from the front pair just sounded overwhelming compared to the OmniSats. The little speakers just did not, could not, provide the same "presence" the big panels provided. I ultimately replaced them with MC1's and that provided a much better match and more immersive experience. I did not have room for more floorstanders, but mounted the MC1's on stands to avoid more holes in the walls and allow me to move them around a bit.

Having learned from my OmniSat experience, I went for floorstanders for surrounds and rears when I changed speakers last year, again to better match the fronts, and that has worked out for me. If I ever go Atmos (unlikely) I would just get smaller speakers to mount in, on, or near the ceiling. The very few Atmos systems I have heard (really only a couple of demos) used in-ceiling or small monitors mounted high that were very different than the main speakers. Because they add the "height" element I did not notice them sounding out of place. One thing I noticed about the in-ceiling speakers used was that they facilitated aiming the mid/tweeter drivers, instead of just being flat in the ceiling, and that significantly helped the sound.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #5312 of 7282 Old 01-15-2018, 09:11 PM
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Hey Guys,

I am trying to build a home theater to complement my Magnepan 3.7is and trying to look for suggestions on inwall/inceiling speakers. My room is 3 sided, C shaped, 20'x14'x8' w/ the 14' side open to a very large entryway and dining area. My current Magnepans are fed by Parasound Halo JC1s and I plan on using Parasound Halo Amps for the surround channels. The processor will likely be Emotiva RMC-1 and use Dirac DSP processing. I will have two SVS ultra SB 16 subs and a Magnepan CCR for center channel. Initially I was thinking a 5.2.2 set up, but now I am opening it up to the possibility of a 5.2.4 or 7.2.2 setup if finances allow.

I am trying to keep things under 9k for the speakers, but open to pricier options. Initially I was leaning towards a Wisdom Audio P2i/P4i setup but have a few reservations about such a small, obscure company. I have also been considering Monitor audio PlII in-wall/PlII in-ceiling, KEF Ci3160RLs/Ci200RR-THX , Martin Logan Edge/Vanquish and a JBL synthesis/REL set up, but really am all over the place.

Is it even worth it for me to try and timbre match and speed match my surrounds w/ the Maggies? What speakers would y'all recommend and why? Between the speakers I have listed, what would y'all think is the best option?
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post #5313 of 7282 Old 01-16-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by oneartist View Post
I assume you have a flat ceiling. I have a fairly steep slope up from left to right and Atmos guidelines tell me to forget about Atmos. I recently helped some friends install four speakers in the crown molding of their ceiling. The wiring was pretty unique. A channel was cut into the corner of the sheetrock for a wiring channel. Wiring was routed around the corners of the ceiling. The wiring was all covered with crown molding. Folded sheetrock joint paper filled in the corner. In this case, I bevel cut mounting boards that covered the crown molding and fit the side walls and the ceiling. A large pan head screw was left out about 1/4" to accept the mounting hole on the back of the speakers.

I think this system could also be used for ceiling mounted speakers. If there are rooms above this ceiling and there is no insulation in the ceiling, a large steel ball or washer could be attached to a string and pulled into position using a strong magnet. You should get lots of suggestions at an Atmos forum for suggested speakers. MMGW speakers could be mounted with their mounting brackets and suspended from string or wire at an angle toward the listening area.
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I would just go for good ceiling speakers and not worry about matching to the Maggies -- they really won't, but probably not a big deal. Coming from the ceiling will give a much different sound stage and image, but for Atmos speakers I suspect (do not know, do not have Atmos) they will be fine, especially since you are already well-Magne'fied for the rears.

When I had my main L/R Magnepans first set up I was using Mirage OmniSats as surrounds and rears. I thought their more omni pattern would suit the Maggies decently. However, I found the floor-to-ceiling ('ish) sound from the front pair just sounded overwhelming compared to the OmniSats. The little speakers just did not, could not, provide the same "presence" the big panels provided. I ultimately replaced them with MC1's and that provided a much better match and more immersive experience. I did not have room for more floorstanders, but mounted the MC1's on stands to avoid more holes in the walls and allow me to move them around a bit.

Having learned from my OmniSat experience, I went for floorstanders for surrounds and rears when I changed speakers last year, again to better match the fronts, and that has worked out for me. If I ever go Atmos (unlikely) I would just get smaller speakers to mount in, on, or near the ceiling. The very few Atmos systems I have heard (really only a couple of demos) used in-ceiling or small monitors mounted high that were very different than the main speakers. Because they add the "height" element I did not notice them sounding out of place. One thing I noticed about the in-ceiling speakers used was that they facilitated aiming the mid/tweeter drivers, instead of just being flat in the ceiling, and that significantly helped the sound.

FWIWFM - Don
Thanks for the input!! As much as I'd like to stick with Maggies, just won't have the room to hang up 4 of them. Would be a sight to behold though!! Looks like I'll just have to settle on the best in ceiling speakers I can afford.
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post #5314 of 7282 Old 01-17-2018, 12:40 PM
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UPDATE:

So sharing my observation. I was previously using the Neutrik Speakon connection with my R-328 being fed directly from my Aragon amp: running 1.7i Maggies full range and the REL crossover set to 50hz to in essence there was 10hz of overlap between the Maggies and the REL sub (between 40 and 50hz). It sounded great to my ears!!

So I was finally able to get the RCA connection from my Pre/Pro (Subwoofer out) to the High/Low input on the REL working. I set the crossover to 80hz at first, then tried 70, 60 and 50 after that. RESULTS: It just did not sound as good as my previous setup (above) using the SPEAKON cable and overlapped freq. (40 to 50hz). The Maggies and sub just seemed to integrate better where the sub disappeared and the deep bass sounded like it was actually coming from the Maggies. With the RCA input method, I could almost locate the sub and it did not integrate well at all, at least to my ears.

Anyone else running a REL or running their Maggies "full range," comments suggestions, advice?

Should I just go with what makes my ears happy and keep the SPEAKON setup or is there an inherent risk to running my 1.7i's "full range?"

DONH50: what are thoughts about this (above) Sir?

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post #5315 of 7282 Old 01-18-2018, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO710HD View Post
UPDATE:

So sharing my observation. I was previously using the Neutrik Speakon connection with my R-328 being fed directly from my Aragon amp: running 1.7i Maggies full range and the REL crossover set to 50hz to in essence there was 10hz of overlap between the Maggies and the REL sub (between 40 and 50hz). It sounded great to my ears!!

So I was finally able to get the RCA connection from my Pre/Pro (Subwoofer out) to the High/Low input on the REL working. I set the crossover to 80hz at first, then tried 70, 60 and 50 after that. RESULTS: It just did not sound as good as my previous setup (above) using the SPEAKON cable and overlapped freq. (40 to 50hz). The Maggies and sub just seemed to integrate better where the sub disappeared and the deep bass sounded like it was actually coming from the Maggies. With the RCA input method, I could almost locate the sub and it did not integrate well at all, at least to my ears.

Anyone else running a REL or running their Maggies "full range," comments suggestions, advice?

Should I just go with what makes my ears happy and keep the SPEAKON setup or is there an inherent risk to running my 1.7i's "full range?"

DONH50: what are thoughts about this (above) Sir?
I know that subs are 'non-directional' - that is they 'disappear' when playing under 100hz - so if you can 'differentiate' where they are located it seems the frequency you are listening is above 100hz. I don't know if a new pre-amp is in your future - but I know the ones with DIRAC room correction supposedly are excellent for bass management. Here is comprehensive tech article that might help:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-a...out-subwoofers
Dirac processors:
https://www.dirac.com/buy-products-w...-our-partners/

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post #5316 of 7282 Old 01-28-2018, 09:08 PM
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Wondering if you tried your Crown amp on your Manepans yet?

Anybody have any luck with pro amps with maggies? Its a controversial subject to say the least but I'd like to hear some first hand testimonials from users of amps such as the Crown XLS, QSC, Behringer amps...

I have an update on pro amps with Maggies. My 30 year old Threshold S500e started blowing a 6 amp rail fuse on one channel every time it was powered on. I'll get it looked at to see if it's easily fixable soon, but in the mean time, I bought a Crown XLS 1502 class D pro amp to see how it does. The 1502 is an 11 pound two channel amp rated at 300 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 525 watts per channel at 4 ohms. That's pretty much the same power rating as the Threshold s500e.

I hooked up the Crown in the spot formerly occupied by the Threshold, hooked up with the same XLR balanced cables, same banana plug speaker cables, even the same power cord. The Crown has a gain control knob on the front for each channel, and when I advanced that past about 1 pm, I had a hum coming out of the speakers. I unhooked everything from the Crown except the power cord and the speaker cables, and there was no hum even with the gain controls at maximum. Hooking up either of the XLR incput cables caused the hum to reappear in both channels. I tried using a "cheater" thing on the three prong power cable...that didn't help. The issue is a ground loop generated somewhere that wasn't there using the Threshold. Not sure what it is yet, but I'll track it down. I can't figure out why that hum was not there with the Threshold, or the Emotiva XPA 2 in the exact same spot with the exact same cables.

What I did for now is, instead of using the Crown in my living room system with Maggie 1.7's, I moved it to my bedroom system with Magnepan 1.6's. In that system, there is no hum with the crown. The Emotiva XPA 2 gen 1 that I had in the bedroom, I moved to the living room where it works very nicely with no hum. The Crown does a very nice job on the Magnepan 1.6's. It's hard for me to accept that it sounds so good while weighing about 11 pounds, instead of the 80 pounds of the XPA 2 and the Threshold.
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Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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post #5317 of 7282 Old 01-28-2018, 09:33 PM
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As it happens, I compared the Crown and an XPA 2 Gen 1 some time back. Ended up returning the crown. The Emotiva was just a better amp, not the equal of the Parasound A-21 I also compared it too but something I'd be happy to own and use.
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post #5318 of 7282 Old 01-28-2018, 09:55 PM
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Class D has come a long way.

As for the hum, you should be able to lift the ground (shield) at one end and break the ground loop; that is probably the biggest advantage of XLRs in a home system. For standard XLRs that means pulling the wire from pin 1 at one (not both) end's connector in each cable. I usually leave the ground connected at the source and open at the load (amplifier) but it should work either way.

Whether a component has a problem with ground loops can be complicated. It's hard to infer anything about the quality of the amplifier by whether it hums or not. Crown amps are used in a lot of professional installations where hum would be an issue.

That said, I used an XPA-2 on my old Maggies and was happy with it. Not a Threshold, but not bad. Might be easier to just leave it alone now that you have working systems in both rooms. An abundance of Maggies...

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #5319 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 09:04 AM
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As it happens, I compared the Crown and an XPA 2 Gen 1 some time back. Ended up returning the crown. The Emotiva was just a better amp, not the equal of the Parasound A-21 I also compared it too but something I'd be happy to own and use.
I've had the XPA2 since 2009 and have always loved what it can do with Maggies. I still need to do some more listening with the Crown, but it has impressed me so far on the 1.6's. I've heard class D amps previously on maggies and none of those sounded that good to me. This one is better. It has a very clear open and detailed sound to it.

Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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post #5320 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Class D has come a long way.

As for the hum, you should be able to lift the ground (shield) at one end and break the ground loop; that is probably the biggest advantage of XLRs in a home system. For standard XLRs that means pulling the wire from pin 1 at one (not both) end's connector in each cable. I usually leave the ground connected at the source and open at the load (amplifier) but it should work either way.

Whether a component has a problem with ground loops can be complicated. It's hard to infer anything about the quality of the amplifier by whether it hums or not. Crown amps are used in a lot of professional installations where hum would be an issue.

That said, I used an XPA-2 on my old Maggies and was happy with it. Not a Threshold, but not bad. Might be easier to just leave it alone now that you have working systems in both rooms. An abundance of Maggies...

HTH - Don
Class D has indeed gotten much better. This Crown sounds really good on Magnepans. I've only had it less than 24 hours so still need to do more listening, but what I've heard so far is encouraging. I have a Guitar Center near me so was able to buy it locally. The light weight was a bit of an issue at first, since the amp has no rubber feet on the bottom and tended to slide around on the wooden shelf. I stuck some rubber feet on it and problem solved.

Years ago I had issues with ground loops all the time. The more complicated an audio system gets, the easier it is to pic up a hum. I switched my two main systems over to XLR balanced interconnects where ever possible , along with better quality RCA interconnects, and that seemed to eliminate the issue. (Not ridiculously expensive cables, just more robustly constructed ones.) Thanks for the suggestion on the XLR connector modifications to deal with the ground loop. That's one I hadn't thought of. As you stated, both systems are functioning nicely now with no hums, so I'll leave things as they are for the moment. At some point I'll try the Crown in the living room system again and deal with the ground loop though. It bothers me when I don't know what the issue is with a hum like that. I know there's an answer though, there always is.

Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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post #5321 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 11:48 AM
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I've had the XPA2 since 2009 and have always loved what it can do with Maggies. I still need to do some more listening with the Crown, but it has impressed me so far on the 1.6's. I've heard class D amps previously on maggies and none of those sounded that good to me. This one is better. It has a very clear open and detailed sound to it.
I found the Crown impressively clear and open as well. However, when I pushed it to very high levels the sound closed down. Also, as I listened and compared, I noticed that it made pianos sound almost like synthesizers, and that there was something curiously sterile about the image -- instruments precisely placed, but not seemingly part of an acoustic.

Not that I don't think it's a great bargain that you can't listen to happily, particularly on a second system. I just ended up preferring the XPA-2 to the Crown (and a Yamaha commercial amp that I also tried -- I was looking for a woofer amp for bi-aping -- that sounded like op amps), the A-21 to the XPA-2 (more liquid and free of a certain slight bipolar grain, and with better midbass), and more recently, an AHB2 superior to the A-21 (I can't think of words to describe the virtues of that amp, it's just remarkable). So if I were you I'd stick with the XPA-2 on the main system. You're lucky that you have it, the Gen 3 doesn't seem to sound as good (judging by reports, I haven't heard it myself).
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post #5322 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 11:53 AM
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Class D has indeed gotten much better. This Crown sounds really good on Magnepans. I've only had it less than 24 hours so still need to do more listening, but what I've heard so far is encouraging. I have a Guitar Center near me so was able to buy it locally. The light weight was a bit of an issue at first, since the amp has no rubber feet on the bottom and tended to slide around on the wooden shelf. I stuck some rubber feet on it and problem solved.

Years ago I had issues with ground loops all the time. The more complicated an audio system gets, the easier it is to pic up a hum. I switched my two main systems over to XLR balanced interconnects where ever possible , along with better quality RCA interconnects, and that seemed to eliminate the issue. (Not ridiculously expensive cables, just more robustly constructed ones.) Thanks for the suggestion on the XLR connector modifications to deal with the ground loop. That's one I hadn't thought of. As you stated, both systems are functioning nicely now with no hums, so I'll leave things as they are for the moment. At some point I'll try the Crown in the living room system again and deal with the ground loop though. It bothers me when I don't know what the issue is with a hum like that. I know there's an answer though, there always is.
Daren Myers, an engineer at PS Audio was asked to develop gear for a new Stellar series. He said that he did not like the sound of class D amps that he had heard. He started developing a class A cell that would be combined with a Danish class D ICE section. I bought two of his creations as M700 mono amps. I use a PSA DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II as a pre for stereo. I had previously done an amp shoot-out for my 3.6 Maggies. I bought several used amps: Butler, MacIntosh 205, a class A heater and some tube amps. My custom built Odyssey Stratos won the shoot-out for detail. I resold the losers. Now, my Stratos powers my 1.7 side speakers which is a perfect power match for them. But now, with the M700's driving the 3.6's this is a whole new game. There really is no comparison to any of my earlier amps. The sweet details of the class A cell and the 700 Watts of power of the D amp section has turned my Maggies into magic. The sound stage is solidly locked in place. Sometimes you think a musician is sitting in the room with you - a little spooky. The reviewer at Stereophile compared the amps to a $12,000 amp. He was so impressed that he bought the amps and he is on the PS Audio forum with additional comments. Here is the rehttps://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-stellar-m700-monoblock-power-amplifierview:
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post #5323 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 12:23 PM
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I've had the XPA2 since 2009 and have always loved what it can do with Maggies. I still need to do some more listening with the Crown, but it has impressed me so far on the 1.6's. I've heard class D amps previously on maggies and none of those sounded that good to me. This one is better. It has a very clear open and detailed sound to it.
I found the Crown impressively clear and open as well. However, when I pushed it to very high levels the sound closed down. Also, as I listened and compared, I noticed that it made pianos sound almost like synthesizers, and that there was something curiously sterile about the image -- instruments precisely placed, but not seemingly part of an acoustic.

Not that I don't think it's a great bargain that you can't listen to happily, particularly on a second system. I just ended up preferring the XPA-2 to the Crown (and a Yamaha commercial amp that I also tried -- I was looking for a woofer amp for bi-aping -- that sounded like op amps), the A-21 to the XPA-2 (more liquid and free of a certain slight bipolar grain, and with better midbass), and more recently, an AHB2 superior to the A-21 (I can't think of words to describe the virtues of that amp, it's just remarkable). So if I were you I'd stick with the XPA-2 on the main system. You're lucky that you have it, the Gen 3 doesn't seem to sound as good (judging by reports, I haven't heard it myself).
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post #5324 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 12:25 PM
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I found the Crown impressively clear and open as well. However, when I pushed it to very high levels the sound closed down. Also, as I listened and compared, I noticed that it made pianos sound almost like synthesizers, and that there was something curiously sterile about the image -- instruments precisely placed, but not seemingly part of an acoustic.

Not that I don't think it's a great bargain that you can't listen to happily, particularly on a second system. I just ended up preferring the XPA-2 to the Crown (and a Yamaha commercial amp that I also tried -- I was looking for a woofer amp for bi-aping -- that sounded like op amps), the A-21 to the XPA-2 (more liquid and free of a certain slight bipolar grain, and with better midbass), and more recently, an AHB2 superior to the A-21 (I can't think of words to describe the virtues of that amp, it's just remarkable). So if I were you I'd stick with the XPA-2 on the main system. You're lucky that you have it, the Gen 3 doesn't seem to sound as good (judging by reports, I haven't heard it myself).
I havn't had the chance to really push the Crown amp yet. My bedroom isn't really huge and the Magnepans fill it with sound very nicely. I'll definitely have to try pushing the amp more though to see how it responds. I also want to listen to the current Emotiva generation of the XPA-2 on Magnepans. Once again, I am fortunate to have a local high end dealer who carries Magnepan AND Emotiva products. I heard Magnepans for the very first time in his showroom in 1978...Tympani 1d's. I ended up buying a pair and have had Magnepans ever since. The store is still in business today with the same owner.

Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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post #5325 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 12:37 PM
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I havn't had the chance to really push the Crown amp yet. My bedroom isn't really huge and the Magnepans fill it with sound very nicely. I'll definitely have to try pushing the amp more though to see how it responds. I also want to listen to the current Emotiva generation of the XPA-2 on Magnepans. Once again, I am fortunate to have a local high end dealer who carries Magnepan AND Emotiva products. I heard Magnepans for the very first time in his showroom in 1978...Tympani 1d's. I ended up buying a pair and have had Magnepans ever since. The store is still in business today with the same owner.
Heh, I had 1D's too. Now I've fixed up an old pair of Tympani IVA's, which are sounding magnificent. I plan to replace the midranges with BG Neo 8's that I bought, which makes them even better.
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post #5326 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 01:11 PM
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Heh, I had 1D's too. Now I've fixed up an old pair of Tympani IVA's, which are sounding magnificent. I plan to replace the midranges with BG Neo 8's that I bought, which makes them even better.
One thing I should mention about the PSA M700. Don't let the retail price look so bad. You should be able to get them for about 33% off. I got mine from Steve at HighPerformanceStereo.com. Or, PSA offers a free in home trial. They will pay shipping both ways. I know of one case where someone returned an amp that was not burned in yet. It was returned to PSA. PSA took the time to burn it in and returned it to the customer to try again after the burn-in. He kept it and reported this story on the forum.
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Heh, I had 1D's too. Now I've fixed up an old pair of Tympani IVA's, which are sounding magnificent. I plan to replace the midranges with BG Neo 8's that I bought, which makes them even better.

Funny. I had 1Us, 1Cs and 1Ds
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Funny. I had 1Us, 1Cs and 1Ds
Wow, you went through the whole line!
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Wow, you went through the whole line!
That's just the Tympanis. I don't really remember what I've had of Magnepans. I recall MG3s, but I know there were a few more.
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post #5330 of 7282 Old 01-29-2018, 06:51 PM
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I loved my 1-D's. Eventually had to loan them to a friend because I moved and didn't have room for them. Eventually I bought a pair of MMG's, meaning to put them in my home office, but they were so good that I ended up using them in my system for a couple of years until I scored the IVA's, which are sounding magnificent now that I've repaired them (they had some delamination, the original owner had installed some Cardas connectors and made cold solder joints as well as screwing up one of the crossovers, and they had a factory wiring error that the poor original owner never knew about -- one of the midranges was wired out of phase!).
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I loved my 1-D's. Eventually had to loan them to a friend because I moved and didn't have room for them. Eventually I bought a pair of MMG's, meaning to put them in my home office, but they were so good that I ended up using them in my system for a couple of years until I scored the IVA's, which are sounding magnificent now that I've repaired them (they had some delamination, the original owner had installed some Cardas connectors and made cold solder joints as well as screwing up one of the crossovers, and they had a factory wiring error that the poor original owner never knew about -- one of the midranges was wired out of phase!).

I'm 74 so I can no longer remember the order in which I owned several of my planars, but somewhere along in what was probably 1976 I went for a ride with Dayton Wright XG8 Mk2s for a while and I think I had the 1-Ds after that. Then very late 70s or early 80s it was Sound Lab A-1s so I had just about everything that blew hot air out of both front and back. By the time the 1-Ds came along, ARC's Bill Johnson was no longer making house calls to help you position your speakers as he did with the 1-Us if you also bought a pair of D76s or whatever it was at that time.
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post #5332 of 7282 Old 01-30-2018, 08:32 AM
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Wow, you really did have everything, the Dayton-Wrights and the Sound Labs! Everything but Infinities.

I didn't know Bill Johnson made house calls. :-) But I'm pretty sure that Audio Research was no longer distributing Maggies when the 1-D's came out. I bought my 1-D's used when they were about a year old and I had my first full-time job, my first planars.
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post #5333 of 7282 Old 01-30-2018, 10:35 AM
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Wow, you really did have everything, the Dayton-Wrights and the Sound Labs! Everything but Infinities.

I didn't know Bill Johnson made house calls. :-) But I'm pretty sure that Audio Research was no longer distributing Maggies when the 1-D's came out. I bought my 1-D's used when they were about a year old and I had my first full-time job, my first planars.

And Servo Stats. KLH9s too. And who knows what else until someone brings it up. And ML Statements. This is why I'll die poor! Got me two divorces too. Started with ELS57s in 1959, but technically, those were dad's that 'somehow' ended up in my room.

"Audio Research was no longer distributing Maggies when the 1-D's "

Correct. 1-Cs and Ds I had to do myself !!! Only the 1-Us and some 1-As
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Don't forget Acoustat, Beveridge... I think I've heard as many but owned far fewer than Scott, who is without doubt The Planar Master.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #5335 of 7282 Old 01-30-2018, 02:19 PM
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Don't forget Acoustat, Beveridge... I think I've heard as many but owned far fewer than Scott, who is without doubt The Planar Master.

I never owned a set of Beveridge although Harry Pearson had me tempted at times. So the planars I haven't had are Apogee, Acoustat and Beveridge. And of the new stuff, King Sound and the Rogers. Probably 20 sets in total with seven or eight being Magneplanars or Pans and the remainder, ESLs. What a way to drive yourself nuts.

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I never owned a set of Beveridge although Harry Pearson had me tempted at times. So the planars I haven't had are Apogee, Acoustat and Beveridge. And of the new stuff, King Sound and the Rogers. Probably 20 sets in total with seven or eight being Magneplanars or Pans and the remainder, ESLs.
Friend of mine had Beveridge and loved them. Janszen? And of course the other hybrids like Sanders ESL/TL woofer systems, Infinity IRS (owned IRS 2), and Carver Amazing Loudspeakers.

I think I heard them "all" but have not owned them all by a long shot.

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What a way to drive yourself nuts.
For me it's a short drive.

More on-topic, one reason I stayed with Maggies (until recently) despite forays into other speakers was because they tended to integrate and blend the sound among panels better than some (many, back then) of the ESL designs. The image was better over frequency without little sonic "bumps" as you slid up and down the scale. I have read Sound Labs have much improved since I last heard them many years ago but a lot of "full-range" ESLs I heard back then did awesome in the midrange but got beamy and bright in the HF region (some of that may have been amps disliking the load) and boomy/tubby in the bass. Quad's delay-line panel design was (is) an innovative solution to that problem. A lot of the early hybrids did not integrate the panels with the conventional woofers (and super tweeters in some cases -- remember hearing the HQD?) very well. ML has much improved in the past few years, and other companies like Sanders attacked that problem early on.
tr4a likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

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Janszen? And of course the other hybrids like Infinity IRS (owned IRS 2) and Carver Amazing Loudspeakers.

I think I heard them "all" but have not owned them all by a long shot.



For me it's a short drive.

"Janszen"

Although had an electrostatic midrange and tweet, they weren't dipoles. I didn't really consider those anymore of the genre of what I was interested in than DQ-10s (I owned). Sound Lab's founder, Dr. Roger West got his start at Janszen. Never had IRS Vs. Had one or two pair of the smaller ones, but don't recall which, in addition to the Servo Stats. The only Bob Carver I had was the 700b. IIRC, I had more than one .... kaboom! Thank you Dayton Wright. Been to Toronto a few times to see Mike Wright to have the Dayton Wrights re-gassed. So I've slowed way down compared to what I used to be. BUT, although reliability / durability is way up, the love hate with planars still remains.


Edit: True the KLH9s were designed by Art Janszen, but I was talking about Janszen branded ESLs during those days. I had KLH9s so I guess I did have Janszen products in a way.

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Yes, JansZen, and they still have a few models for sale today. Sealed, not a dipole panel, true. And they (JansZen) is actually rebuilding and selling old KLH 9's for about $8k: http://www.janszenaudio.com/klh-nine...shment-upgrade Thanks, I had totally forgotten their history.

I had an original Phase Linear 700. Among if not the most unreliable amp I ever owned. It had the feature that, when the output transistors shorted, it applied full DC supply voltage across the outputs, which managed to fry more than one of my speaker systems. The a and b models were better but I had moved on by then.

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post #5339 of 7282 Old 01-30-2018, 03:53 PM
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Wow, you really did have everything, the Dayton-Wrights and the Sound Labs! Everything but Infinities.

I didn't know Bill Johnson made house calls. :-) But I'm pretty sure that Audio Research was no longer distributing Maggies when the 1-D's came out. I bought my 1-D's used when they were about a year old and I had my first full-time job, my first planars.

I bought my 1D's new in Sept 1978, and they proudly wore their "Audio Research" branding. I added one of the first real subwoofers to the 1d's about a year later. That was an RH Labs subwooofer. (yes, three o's

That was a 200 pound walnut coffee table sized speaker that used an external electronic crossover and needed an external power amp. I used a Citation 19 in bridged mode with it. That subwooofer really added to the low end that the 1D's already had.

Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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post #5340 of 7282 Old 01-30-2018, 04:02 PM
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And Servo Stats. KLH9s too. And who knows what else until someone brings it up. And ML Statements. This is why I'll die poor! Got me two divorces too. Started with ELS57s in 1959, but technically, those were dad's that 'somehow' ended up in my room.

"Audio Research was no longer distributing Maggies when the 1-D's "

Correct. 1-Cs and Ds I had to do myself !!! Only the 1-Us and some 1-As
Servo Statiks? Did the panels blow up? :-)

I have a friend who's still using his KLH 9's.
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