The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 205 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6121 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibson View Post
Hi guys,

Got the Magnepan LRS setup with Tweeters "IN".
Spaced apart at recommended 60% of distance from front panels to listening seat. Playing repeated "burn-in" track of 20Hz-20KHz (Remember when they were CPS...Cycles Per Second?)
Emotivia Amp volume level at 35.
RadioShack Analog SLM on DIY tripod setup at 1 meter from center line of panels.
SLM set C-Weighting, Slow-Response, 60Hz Range
On Left LRS get maximum reading of 62dB (Max appears to occur in lower Bass range.Emotiva PreAmp 80Hz crossover to Hsu VFT2-Mk4 12" Sub in Left corner
On Right LRS get maximum reading of 60dB.
I swapped Speaker inputs on amp and still get same readings.
I'm guessing the 2dB peak is due to Hsu sub on the left...correct?
Oh hell, simple solution, turn off the sub and read again...yes?

sgibson
Thanks to DonH50, torii, Scotth3886 and others for all the tips for Setting up Magnepan LRS. Think I'm in the ballpark now.(see diagram)
Not sure what the sound dispersion pattern is...anyone know?
BTW Scotth3886, now using a digital level meter for finding/keeping
optimum Panel Tilt
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post #6122 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 07:58 AM
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Dipoles will radiate in sort of a "figure eight" pattern before and behind the panel for frequencies roughly above the panel's dimensions, typically around the upper (mid) bass or lower midrange on up. Picture below (speaker in green). Vertically they tend to act like line sources. Not much radiation to the sides or top/bottom. Below that they gravitate to point'ish sources as the wavelengths become much longer than the diaphragm's dimensions. These are very rough approximations, natch.

HTH - Don
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post #6123 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 08:39 AM
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A New and Old Maggie Owner Needs Some Advice

Greetings All:

I'm an old and new Maggie owner because I owned the MMG and 1.6 twelve years ago, owned many box speakers since, and have now come back to Magnepan via a new pair of .7s. Sonically speaking, I love them! The .7s sound far more electrostatic-like than my recollection of the 1.6's sound. However, the .7s arrived with a cosmetic flaw I'm hoping the group can give some advice on fixing. As you can see in the photo, each .7 has an shallow yet very noticeable imprint of a metal strip that was attached to front cloth during shipping. A message on the strip itself and within the manual warns of part of the fabric sticking to the driver and suggests using sticky tape to pull the indented fabric out. My concern about this is that the stickiest tape I've found (but have yet to use until I get some opinions from all of you) is Gorilla duct tape and 3Ms high tack duct tape, both of which are black in color on both sides. I can easily envision black residue from the tape adhesive sticking to the off white fabric, effectively magnifying the existing imprint flaw. I did find some non-brand white duct tape but I'm not sure it will be as sticky as the aforementioned Gorilla or 3m tapes.

The only alternative idea I have is to use the hose attachment of my vacuum cleaner to pull the imprint out.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Eric
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post #6124 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 09:17 AM
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Sticky tape might tear the fabric and as you note be hard to get the adhesive out of the fabric. Do NOT use a vacuum. The suction can tear the panels and pulling it out rarely "holds" -- it will fall back into the creased shape.

I would wait a while; the imprint should gradually work itself out over time. You can call Magnepan and ask them about it. My guess is pulling with any sort of tape would not work well; probably couldn't get the imprinting out and would not stay that way. And a slip could damage the panel.

You could try carefully pulling from the sides outward up and down along the front to pull it straight and raise the imprint. Catch there is you may end up with a "floppy sock". And I still misdoubt it will "stick" (probably fall back to the imprinted look).

A mister might help but then you'd also be spraying the panel... Maybe a very fine gentle mist might help it work itself out? Fabrics ain't my thang.

Decades ago when I worked for a store selling them now and then one would come in with a creased sock (or a customer would do it). I would remove the sock and use a steamer or iron to smooth it out then put the sock back on. It is not hard but not a job for the faint of heart and with a new pair I would ask the dealer or Magnepan for help. Again, my guess is they'll tell you to wait and let it smooth itself naturally, but it is possible you got a mis-packed set so they may swap or something.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6125 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post
Greetings All:

I'm an old and new Maggie owner because I owned the MMG and 1.6 twelve years ago, owned many box speakers since, and have now come back to Magnepan via a new pair of .7s. Sonically speaking, I love them! The .7s sound far more electrostatic-like than my recollection of the 1.6's sound. However, the .7s arrived with a cosmetic flaw I'm hoping the group can give some advice on fixing. As you can see in the photo, each .7 has an shallow yet very noticeable imprint of a metal strip that was attached to front cloth during shipping. A message on the strip itself and within the manual warns of part of the fabric sticking to the driver and suggests using sticky tape to pull the indented fabric out. My concern about this is that the stickiest tape I've found (but have yet to use until I get some opinions from all of you) is Gorilla duct tape and 3Ms high tack duct tape, both of which are black in color on both sides. I can easily envision black residue from the tape adhesive sticking to the off white fabric, effectively magnifying the existing imprint flaw. I did find some non-brand white duct tape but I'm not sure it will be as sticky as the aforementioned Gorilla or 3m tapes.

The only alternative idea I have is to use the hose attachment of my vacuum cleaner to pull the imprint out.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

Eric

The light blue type 'painters tape' might do it and without adhering so much that it causes damage
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post #6126 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibson View Post
Thanks to DonH50, torii, Scotth3886 and others for all the tips for Setting up Magnepan LRS. Think I'm in the ballpark now.(see diagram)
Not sure what the sound dispersion pattern is...anyone know?
BTW Scotth3886, now using a digital level meter for finding/keeping
optimum Panel Tilt

Sadly, I can't comment yet. It's been four weeks since I ordered mine, so anytime bois, time to ship before I give up on them.
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post #6127 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 09:49 AM
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Don't give up. We are patiently awaiting your subjective review.

The LRS are on my 'maybe' want list.
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In the audiophile world, ignorance truly is bliss. Save your money.
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post #6128 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Sticky tape might tear the fabric and as you note be hard to get the adhesive out of the fabric. Do NOT use a vacuum. The suction can tear the panels and pulling it out rarely "holds" -- it will fall back into the creased shape.

I would wait a while; the imprint should gradually work itself out over time. You can call Magnepan and ask them about it. My guess is pulling with any sort of tape would not work well; probably couldn't get the imprinting out and would not stay that way. And a slip could damage the panel.

You could try carefully pulling from the sides outward up and down along the front to pull it straight and raise the imprint. Catch there is you may end up with a "floppy sock". And I still misdoubt it will "stick" (probably fall back to the imprinted look).

A mister might help but then you'd also be spraying the panel... Maybe a very fine gentle mist might help it work itself out? Fabrics ain't my thang.

Decades ago when I worked for a store selling them now and then one would come in with a creased sock (or a customer would do it). I would remove the sock and use a steamer or iron to smooth it out then put the sock back on. It is not hard but not a job for the faint of heart and with a new pair I would ask the dealer or Magnepan for help. Again, my guess is they'll tell you to wait and let it smooth itself naturally, but it is possible you got a mis-packed set so they may swap or something.
Hi Don,

Thanks for the feedback. I've spoken with my dealer rep and Magnepan about it. The former understandably recommended speaking with Magnepan about it. I got a surprisingly snarky response via email from someone high up in the company suggesting I didn't read the manual or warning label on the metal strip suggesting the use of tape. He's wrong of course: I read both during unpacking and tried transparent packing tape (no joy-not sticky enough) and I was and still am hesitant about using anything sticker though Scotth3886's idea about blue painters tape could work. It's been a while since I've used it but as I recall it doesn't leave colored adhesive residue. I'm not going any farther than that with tape.

Do these metal strips ship with all Maggies now? They didn't with my MMGs and 1.6s years ago. I ask because I'm thinking about upgrading to the 1.7is and if they don't ship with the metal strip perhaps I can upgrade and address this cosmetic flaw simultaneously.

Last edited by elockett; 05-19-2019 at 10:04 AM. Reason: grammar
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post #6129 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out-Of-Phase View Post
Don't give up. We are patiently awaiting your subjective review.

The LRS are on my 'maybe' want list.
This isn't the only hobby I have (or I'd still be married), but this is more of a colder weather interest.

It's time now to get the old cars out of the garage and start cruising, especially after just getting back from three days at

http://s710.photobucket.com/user/sco...%20Indy%202019

Anyway, in re the Maggie LRSs, my review won't be totally subjective as I plan to run measurements as soon as I get them setup and run them again after about a 100 hours of use to see if there's any noticeable, measurable, audible break-in.

I'm really curious to see the THD numbers versus the ESLs.

My subjective reviews are always pretty harsh when I first get something so who knows, but I can't do jack Schiit until they get here.
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post #6130 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Dipoles will radiate in sort of a "figure eight" pattern before and behind the panel for frequencies roughly above the panel's dimensions, typically around the upper (mid) bass or lower midrange on up. Picture below (speaker in green). Vertically they tend to act like line sources. Not much radiation to the sides or top/bottom. Below that they gravitate to point'ish sources as the wavelengths become much longer than the diaphragm's dimensions. These are very rough approximations, natch.

HTH - Don
Thanks Don,
Exactly what I was looking for
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post #6131 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
The light blue type 'painters tape' might do it and without adhering so much that it causes damage
Exactly as Scotth3886 says
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post #6132 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post
Hi Don,

Thanks for the feedback. I've spoken with my dealer rep and Magnepan about it. The former understandably recommended speaking with Magnepan about it. I got a surprisingly snarky response via email from someone high up in the company suggesting I didn't read the manual or warning label on the metal strip suggesting the use of tape. He's wrong of course: I read both during unpacking and tried transparent packing tape (no joy-not sticky enough) and I was and still am hesitant about using anything sticker though Scotth3886's idea about blue painters tape could work. It's been a while since I've used it but as I recall it doesn't leave colored adhesive residue. I'm not going any farther than that with tape.

Do these metal strips ship with all Maggies now? They didn't with my MMGs and 1.6s years ago. I ask because I'm thinking about upgrading to the 1.7is and if they don't ship with the metal strip perhaps I can upgrade and address this cosmetic flaw simultaneously.
Magnepan's customer service and "personal touch" used to be one of their greatest strengths. Several folk have commented in the past couple of years about less than stellar calls/correspondence; hope y'all are outliers and they have not changed as they've grown. Of course anyone can have a bad day but... Did they actually say what to do about it?

I doubt painter's tape would do it -- it is intentionally a light (less "sticky") adhesive and I would not expect much "pulling" force. But cheap and worth a try. You can get it in widths from ~1/4" up to 6" or so last I got some so maybe a little wider one might provide more pulling area?

I have no idea how they are shipped these days. My last unboxing was my MC-1's and they are all boxed up. The only metal strips I remember are the ones covering the ribbon tweeters on the MG-3/20/(30) and old Timpani ribbon tweeters. The few times I have heard them the past few years they've been in a showroom (no imprints like that, natch). The imprint seems like a strange place for it -- I would have expected protection to run top to bottom and not just in the middle like that. Looks like something that shouldn't have been there but I can't tell from the picture. Maybe there's a brace or attachment to support the metal piece if it is pressed against the panel?

Hopefully it will hang out like wrinkles in a shirt...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6133 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 01:21 PM
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Is the a way to figure out for sure if it’s the speakers that are crackling and not something else?


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post #6134 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 03:50 PM
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Is the a way to figure out for sure if it’s the speakers that are crackling and not something else?


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What crackling under what conditions? I've been buried so may have missed it...

A myriad of things can cause speaker crackling, some due to the speakers (like the infamous delamination problem when wires separate from the panels and buzz), some due to component issues (bad coupling caps in an amp or preamp, in some cases high DC offset causes problems), etc. Some people hear buzzing or rasping from a ground loop or EMI/RFI and describe it as crackling so it may be hard to tell without "being there".

If you hear crackling, use pink noise or tones to see if it is frequency-dependent. That will at least isolate the driver. Listen with your ear to the speaker and move around to see if it is localized to one spot or one driver segment. Delamination is buzzing, usually at the ends of the panel, and may go away or get very quiet as volume is decreased. With the new QR design I would expect delamination to be less an issue but I do not know their manufacturing details. Sometimes it may not be the panel itself but something else, like the frame or feet. Years ago I did a call for a customer who complained about his 20's making strange popping noises. He had eschewed our normal dealer setup and did it himself. He overtightened and stripped or spun the mounting screws on one speaker and with large bass signals the speaker was actually vibrating, buzzing, and occasionally "whacking" against the footer.

If it is in one speaker, swap speaker cables (usually easier to do at the amp end) and see if the problem stays with the speaker or follows the amp. If it is in both speakers, that would be unusual unless they are both defective/broken.

If you have another amp/AVR try that to see if the problem is still there. Be aware a bad preamp may cause problems with any amp. If you have another pair of speakers, any speakers, hook them up and see if you have the same problem (implying amp/preamp/AVR/electronics not speakers).

Hope this provides some things to try. If they are new, contact your dealer. Hopefully he'll bring or loan you a replacement amp/AVR to try.

Vexing... - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6135 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 07:24 PM
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Im a first time maggie customer but Im already thinking of cancelling my pre order...I just dont live long enough to put up with bull ****...and my focals are really good enough....whoever answers magnepans phone calls should be fired for customer service. waste of sperm.

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Im a first time maggie customer but Im already thinking of cancelling my pre order...I just dont live long enough to put up with bull ****...and my focals are really good enough....whoever answers magnepans phone calls should be fired for customer service. waste of sperm.
What BS? True, they're busy and backed up a bit. If I cancel, it wouldn't be because I'm necessarily unhappy with the company, it's just that my plate is really full for the summer with outdoor stuff.
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post #6137 of 6300 Old 05-19-2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
What crackling under what conditions? I've been buried so may have missed it...



A myriad of things can cause speaker crackling, some due to the speakers (like the infamous delamination problem when wires separate from the panels and buzz), some due to component issues (bad coupling caps in an amp or preamp, in some cases high DC offset causes problems), etc. Some people hear buzzing or rasping from a ground loop or EMI/RFI and describe it as crackling so it may be hard to tell without "being there".



If you hear crackling, use pink noise or tones to see if it is frequency-dependent. That will at least isolate the driver. Listen with your ear to the speaker and move around to see if it is localized to one spot or one driver segment. Delamination is buzzing, usually at the ends of the panel, and may go away or get very quiet as volume is decreased. With the new QR design I would expect delamination to be less an issue but I do not know their manufacturing details. Sometimes it may not be the panel itself but something else, like the frame or feet. Years ago I did a call for a customer who complained about his 20's making strange popping noises. He had eschewed our normal dealer setup and did it himself. He overtightened and stripped or spun the mounting screws on one speaker and with large bass signals the speaker was actually vibrating, buzzing, and occasionally "whacking" against the footer.



If it is in one speaker, swap speaker cables (usually easier to do at the amp end) and see if the problem stays with the speaker or follows the amp. If it is in both speakers, that would be unusual unless they are both defective/broken.



If you have another amp/AVR try that to see if the problem is still there. Be aware a bad preamp may cause problems with any amp. If you have another pair of speakers, any speakers, hook them up and see if you have the same problem (implying amp/preamp/AVR/electronics not speakers).



Hope this provides some things to try. If they are new, contact your dealer. Hopefully he'll bring or loan you a replacement amp/AVR to try.



Vexing... - Don


Thank you so much. This is very helpful. Will try these things and try to get to the bottom of it


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post #6138 of 6300 Old 05-20-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
The light blue type 'painters tape' might do it and without adhering so much that it causes damage
Good idea, but no joy: I tried blue painter's tape last night and like the packing tape before it doesn't have sufficient stickiness to grip the depressed fabric to pull it level with the rest of the fabric's surface. I guess my last resort is super-sticky duct tape. If nothing else I have two emails from Magnepan suggesting the use of duct tape specifically. Simply put, if it goes bad (I'm thinking visible tape residue on the fabric post-pull), Magnepan will be getting them back.

Sigh... Why are we even having this conversation? I'm definitely going to ask my Magnepan email support contacts why the .7s have to ship with long metal straps on the front fabric in the first place.

Eric
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I use gaffers tape in whatever color you want https://www.amazon.com/Professional-...11-spons&psc=1
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post #6140 of 6300 Old 05-22-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sgibson View Post
Thanks Don,
Exactly what I was looking for
After 2 weeks of "burning-In" and trial & error placement, I'm ready to report on the Magnepan LRSs.
How do they sound? In a word...Breathtaking! Listening at approx. 80-85dB Small space and nearfield setup.
With the right music, you are there! Sparkling Highs, clean vocals and deep, but not boomy Bass. Sound stage on some recordings is deep and wide. You can see the 2"wide Tweeter Ribbon highlighted on the inside edge.
Replaying CD library is like hearing them for the first time. So much missed before I heard it on Magnepan. Glad I made the choice. I'll use the "Boxed" speakers for Hometheater action and Booms. But the Emotivas and Magnepan LRS are reserved for music appreciation!!!

A big thanks to all who helped me on this journey!
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post #6141 of 6300 Old 05-22-2019, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibson View Post
After 2 weeks of "burning-In" and trial & error placement, I'm ready to report on the Magnepan LRSs.
How do they sound? In a word...Breathtaking! Listening at approx. 80-85dB Small space and nearfield setup.
With the right music, you are there! Sparkling Highs, clean vocals and deep, but not boomy Bass. Sound stage on some recordings is deep and wide. You can see the 2"wide Tweeter Ribbon highlighted on the inside edge.
Replaying CD library is like hearing them for the first time. So much missed before I heard it on Magnepan. Glad I made the choice. I'll use the "Boxed" speakers for Hometheater action and Booms. But the Emotivas and Magnepan LRS are reserved for music appreciation!!!

A big thanks to all who helped me on this journey!
From just looking, it appears that they are well positioned. How far out front the front wall?
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post #6142 of 6300 Old 05-23-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
From just looking, it appears that they are well positioned. How far out front the front wall?

The LRS are 5 feet from back wall and 7 feet from listening seat(reclining sofa). Basement Theater is 12ftW x 32ftD x 7ftH (Drop ceiling with sound absorbing panels and wall to wall carpet) From photos at AXPONA 2019, turns out my LRS positions appears similar to Wendell's. https://theaudiobeatnik.com/magnepan...ers-at-axpona/ Cant tell if he did "Tweeters IN".
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post #6143 of 6300 Old 05-23-2019, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sgibson View Post
The LRS are 5 feet from back wall and 7 feet from listening seat(reclining sofa). Basement Theater is 12ftW x 32ftD x 7ftH (Drop ceiling with sound absorbing panels and wall to wall carpet) From photos at AXPONA 2019, turns out my LRS positions appears similar to Wendell's. https://theaudiobeatnik.com/magnepan...ers-at-axpona/ Cant tell if he did "Tweeters IN".
I can't remember what he said about that. Whatever he did, he had some of the best imaging at the show. Although his room was 'jokingly' secret, he was in the same shaped/sized room as everyone else who had the small rooms.
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post #6144 of 6300 Old 05-23-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I can't remember what he said about that. Whatever he did, he had some of the best imaging at the show. Although his room was 'jokingly' secret, he was in the same shaped/sized room as everyone else who had the small rooms.
I do believe Willard had Tweeters "IN" at AXPONA2019 Demo.
See BW photo attached from AXPONA Demo.
Exactly how my Tweeters appear "IN".
Telltale is a 2" Wide strip that's a brighter sheen.
As shown in my photo post #6140
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post #6145 of 6300 Old 05-24-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
What crackling under what conditions? I've been buried so may have missed it...



A myriad of things can cause speaker crackling, some due to the speakers (like the infamous delamination problem when wires separate from the panels and buzz), some due to component issues (bad coupling caps in an amp or preamp, in some cases high DC offset causes problems), etc. Some people hear buzzing or rasping from a ground loop or EMI/RFI and describe it as crackling so it may be hard to tell without "being there".



If you hear crackling, use pink noise or tones to see if it is frequency-dependent. That will at least isolate the driver. Listen with your ear to the speaker and move around to see if it is localized to one spot or one driver segment. Delamination is buzzing, usually at the ends of the panel, and may go away or get very quiet as volume is decreased. With the new QR design I would expect delamination to be less an issue but I do not know their manufacturing details. Sometimes it may not be the panel itself but something else, like the frame or feet. Years ago I did a call for a customer who complained about his 20's making strange popping noises. He had eschewed our normal dealer setup and did it himself. He overtightened and stripped or spun the mounting screws on one speaker and with large bass signals the speaker was actually vibrating, buzzing, and occasionally "whacking" against the footer.



If it is in one speaker, swap speaker cables (usually easier to do at the amp end) and see if the problem stays with the speaker or follows the amp. If it is in both speakers, that would be unusual unless they are both defective/broken.



If you have another amp/AVR try that to see if the problem is still there. Be aware a bad preamp may cause problems with any amp. If you have another pair of speakers, any speakers, hook them up and see if you have the same problem (implying amp/preamp/AVR/electronics not speakers).



Hope this provides some things to try. If they are new, contact your dealer. Hopefully he'll bring or loan you a replacement amp/AVR to try.



Vexing... - Don


So did testing changed amp outlets, changed speaker wire, changed amp, changed files still heard the crackle no matter what I did. Is it safe to say that the speakers are defective in some way?


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post #6146 of 6300 Old 05-24-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Raiders4life12 View Post
So did testing changed amp outlets, changed speaker wire, changed amp, changed files still heard the crackle no matter what I did. Is it safe to say that the speakers are defective in some way?
Seems like it... So sorry, hopefully your dealer will make it right.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6147 of 6300 Old 05-24-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Seems like it... So sorry, hopefully your dealer will make it right.
Raiders4life12, as Don suggests, get the dealer to solve the problem. If the dealer "doesn't make it right", don't hesitate to contact Magnepan!
Document the details of your experience to better explain the situation...if you do need to call Magnepan.
Good Luck!
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post #6148 of 6300 Old 05-24-2019, 07:02 PM
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^^^ Walking in with a printout stating the problem and listing your troubleshooting efforts could save some time and bolster your position. Back when I worked for a dealer we would swap speakers if they were bad out of the box (rare).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6149 of 6300 Old 05-25-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by torii View Post
I use gaffers tape in whatever color you want https://www.amazon.com/Professional-...11-spons&psc=1
Thanks Torii. As it turns out I already have gaffers tape on hand for other purposes (wire marking). Like all of the other tapes I've tried short of duct tape, which I remain hesitant to apply Magnepan's recommendation notwithstanding, gaffers tape is not sticky enough to pull the indent out.

I'm pursuing a more profound fix I'll let you all know about when the deal consummates early next week.

Cheers!

Eric
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post #6150 of 6300 Old 05-25-2019, 09:03 AM
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If anyone has some time today can you run a 20-20khz sine sweep and see if they hear any pops or crackles on their magnepans?


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