The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 236 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7051 of 7173 Old 11-01-2019, 09:48 PM
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MMG L/R --- what CENTER?

Thought I'd ask Maggie owners what center speakers they found that work well with MMG fronts. I'm wanting to upgrade my old NHT SuperZero with something that sounds better with my MMG's. Any suggestions?
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post #7052 of 7173 Old 11-02-2019, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HD Wannabee View Post
Thought I'd ask Maggie owners what center speakers they found that work well with MMG fronts. I'm wanting to upgrade my old NHT SuperZero with something that sounds better with my MMG's. Any suggestions?
The MMGC is made for them. You'll lose some bass but the sonic "character" will be a closer match across the front (I found that to be important).

https://www.magnepan.com/model_MMGC

My CC3 made a much better match to my old MG-IIIa's than the conventional centers I had, but I was wishing it had a bit more bass. I had planned to add a speaker-stand or DWM but never got around to it.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7053 of 7173 Old 11-02-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The MMGC is made for them. You'll lose some bass but the sonic "character" will be a closer match across the front (I found that to be important).

https://www.magnepan.com/model_MMGC

My CC3 made a much better match to my old MG-IIIa's than the conventional centers I had, but I was wishing it had a bit more bass. I had planned to add a speaker-stand or DWM but never got around to it.
The lack of bass and 36" length had steered me away from the MMGC. I also found it interesting that Magnepan added this to the bottom of their MMGC description:


"And there is a bonus for those willing to install this unorthodox concept. In blind-fold testing, listeners found that center channel dialog and information was easier to understand with a "Maggie" dual center than with a conventional single center channel speaker. Extensive research on speech intelligibility is available on the internet."
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post #7054 of 7173 Old 11-02-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HD Wannabee View Post
The lack of bass and 36" length had steered me away from the MMGC. I also found it interesting that Magnepan added this to the bottom of their MMGC description:


"And there is a bonus for those willing to install this unorthodox concept. In blind-fold testing, listeners found that center channel dialog and information was easier to understand with a "Maggie" dual center than with a conventional single center channel speaker. Extensive research on speech intelligibility is available on the internet."
I have not really bought into their "unorthodox concept" for wiring the center speaker. I have never tried their "tri-center" setup though others here have and can comment. I tried a couple of centers before deciding to get a CC3 and it did blend better despite the limited bass. In lieu of that, I would look for a center with a ribbon tweeter though it will be pretty directional. Martin Logan makes both Heil and ESL centers, I think (not something I follow).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7055 of 7173 Old 11-02-2019, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I have not really bought into their "unorthodox concept" for wiring the center speaker. I have never tried their "tri-center" setup though others here have and can comment. I tried a couple of centers before deciding to get a CC3 and it did blend better despite the limited bass. In lieu of that, I would look for a center with a ribbon tweeter though it will be pretty directional. Martin Logan makes both Heil and ESL centers, I think (not something I follow).
These two came to my attention. You said you haven't followed ribbon tweeters but any comments? Do folded ribbons qualify as ribbon tweeters?

https://emotiva.com/products/airmotiv-c1
https://emotiva.com/collections/airm.../airmotiv-c2-1
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post #7056 of 7173 Old 11-02-2019, 08:04 PM
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I just found a nearly new (two months old) pair of ML 11As for 1/3rd what he paid for them. He can't stand them and of course they're right on each side of his little equipment rack completely shoved up against the wall.

Ok, well, last thing I need right now is a distraction when I'm so busy, but not gonna pass that up. We'll iron out details tomorrow, but I asked him, just for an experiment, I want to try setting these up the way I suggest. That's dangerous with the risk that then they won't be for sale, but his wife won't let him keep them out there like that. And besides he's a JTR, JBL & Seaton fan so these positively aren't his cup of tea.

Then I'll be bitchin, whining & complainin' that I can't get these to sound right for a period of a couple of years. I really really know better than to do this. Be sure to bookmark this post and frequently throw it up in my face when the bitchin starts.
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post #7057 of 7173 Old 11-03-2019, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by HD Wannabee View Post
These two came to my attention. You said you haven't followed ribbon tweeters but any comments? Do folded ribbons qualify as ribbon tweeters?

https://emotiva.com/products/airmotiv-c1
https://emotiva.com/collections/airm.../airmotiv-c2-1
I do not follow Martin Logan closely, for that matter haven't really kept up with a lot of audio stuff lately (decades since I was in the business, and it is much harder to find the time and interest to listen just for fun these days -- maybe when I retire -- plus harder to find local stores with decent selection). The air transformer (Heil)/folded ribbon design is a little different technically but similar in characteristics. Small ribbons all tend to tight directivity in the vertical plane, a plus or minus depending on your situation and taste, and sometimes less horizontal dispersion than conventional speakers. Magnepan uses a long, narrow ribbon to provide a larger vertical image and decent horizontal dispersion (to a point).

It is worth noting (should have earlier) that the other centers I tried, a Kef, Mirage, and Infinity Alpha, were all conventional designs -- no ribbon tweeters -- and blending seemed better with the CC3. I have not heard those Emotiva speakers but post in the owner's thread here on AVS -- they seem popular and well-regarded. In terms of matching your Maggies they are likely to do a good job. Worth a try.

For movies the center carries a lot of the load so I would get the best I could afford.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7058 of 7173 Old 11-03-2019, 03:46 PM
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You really have it in for Harman, eh? I need to quit posting here... FWIWFM I appreciated the multichannel approach when I had an all-Maggie setup long before I had Harman speakers. Stereo set up properly can be amazing but there's a reason folk back in the 50's were espousing multichannel. Just never really caught on.
Hi DonH50,

I first heard a Stereo FM Simulcast (commercial-free) in the mid-fifties. I thought...Wow! I also enjoyed Multi-channel listening when it was first introduced in the early 70s.
A copy of Blood Sweat and Tears' "Spinning Wheel" A Lafayette Argonne 4 Dimension Stereo Programmer (Which I still have in original Box) from Eico HF-81 Stereo Amp to 2 rear speakers, resulted in output "phantom rear out-of-phased LR channels". It really worked! Next came 4-Channel Vinyl and tapes. What caused the demise was that listeners didn't want to be glued seated in the center of the listening area...back then. Now...I'll sit wherever my LRSs tell me too
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post #7059 of 7173 Old 11-03-2019, 07:14 PM
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Hi DonH50,

I first heard a Stereo FM Simulcast (commercial-free) in the mid-fifties. I thought...Wow! I also enjoyed Multi-channel listening when it was first introduced in the early 70s.
A copy of Blood Sweat and Tears' "Spinning Wheel" A Lafayette Argonne 4 Dimension Stereo Programmer (Which I still have in original Box) from Eico HF-81 Stereo Amp to 2 rear speakers, resulted in output "phantom rear out-of-phased LR channels". It really worked! Next came 4-Channel Vinyl and tapes. What caused the demise was that listeners didn't want to be glued seated in the center of the listening area...back then. Now...I'll sit wherever my LRSs tell me too
I still have a bunch 'quad' LP so I eveidentally had a system that could do this at some point, but have no idaed what it was. I suspect it was my Yamaha NS1000s with my NS 690s and/or 670s since I have all that stuff at the same time.
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post #7060 of 7173 Old 11-03-2019, 07:56 PM
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I still have a bunch 'quad' LP so I eveidentally had a system that could do this at some point, but have no idaed what it was. I suspect it was my Yamaha NS1000s with my NS 690s and/or 670s since I have all that stuff at the same time.
Hi Scotth3886,

Had an Audio Technica CD-4 cartridge. 4- DIY Bookshelf 2-way speakers.
Long gone now. But...still have about 15 QuadraDiscs.
Also have the original 4Ch Technics SA-7300 Amp purchased in 1978.
Beast can be bridged to 20Watts/8 Ohms 2Ch Stereo
Still sounds good but right channel needs work.
Don't think it will work with the Magnepan LRSs.
How did "Dark Side of The Moon" sound in 4CH?
Still have a Quad 8-Track Tape of Chicago VI...
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Hi Scotth3886,

Had an Audio Technica CD-4 cartridge. 4- DIY Bookshelf 2-way speakers.
Long gone now. But...still have about 15 QuadraDiscs.
Also have the original 4Ch Technics SA-7300 Amp purchased in 1978.
Beast can be bridged to 20Watts/8 Ohms 2Ch Stereo
Still sounds good but right channel needs work.
Don't think it will work with the Magnepan LRSs.
How did "Dark Side of The Moon" sound in 4CH?
Still have a Quad 8-Track Tape of Chicago VI...
I haven't listened to this in years, but IIRC this is the best sound sounding DSOTM that I'm aware of which isn't saying all that much. The Wall was their first that was a decent recording. This is a good example of exactly the kind of material that ESLs will rip to shreds and expose for what it is and why I have to have multiple pairs of speakers.
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post #7062 of 7173 Old 11-07-2019, 08:55 AM
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I haven't listened to this in years, but IIRC this is the best sound sounding DSOTM that I'm aware of which isn't saying all that much.
What is this IIRC version of DSOM? Is that a label?
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Site. DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R/Polk LSiM707 || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & T || Power: PS Audio P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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What is this IIRC version of DSOM? Is that a label?
This one. I believe it was the first DSOTM I had.
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post #7064 of 7173 Old 11-07-2019, 09:08 AM
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This one. I believe it was the first DSOTM I had.
Yeah, Harvest is the most expensive one. But why did you call it IIRC?

Site. DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R/Polk LSiM707 || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & T || Power: PS Audio P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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Quote:
What does iirc mean?

As an internet slang term and an acronym, IIRC is short for “if I recall correctly” or “if I remember correctly.”
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Site. DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R/Polk LSiM707 || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & T || Power: PS Audio P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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Yeah, Harvest is the most expensive one. But why did you call it IIRC?
Given that it's been 47 years since the release, 'IIRC' is my answer to most things from back then. So 'If I recall Correctly' this is the best version I have or have heard.

It's also Quad and in flawless condition.
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post #7067 of 7173 Old 11-07-2019, 09:44 AM
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Given that it's been 47 years since the release, 'IIRC' is my answer to most things from back then. So 'If I recall Correctly' this is the best version I have or have heard.
I didn't know what IIRC meant, LOL. I thought it was a label like Columbia or Decca.
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Site. DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R/Polk LSiM707 || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & T || Power: PS Audio P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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I didn't know what IIRC meant, LOL. I thought it was a label like Columbia or Decca.
It's my label. It's my answer to many things these days.
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post #7069 of 7173 Old 11-07-2019, 12:36 PM
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I used to use IIRC all the time but am thinking I should shorten it to just IIR or maybe IIRAA ("at all").
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7070 of 7173 Old 11-08-2019, 07:35 AM
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Back in the day when I was a young boy I used to: WATWALWUPAP


Write All The Words And Letters When Using Paper And Pencil.


By the by ....... the sheetrock has just been completed in my new music / theater space. The room worked out to be 19Wx24Lx8.5H. I am now starting to budget for more Maggies, Emotiva amps, Rythmik subs, and cabling. Going from 5.1 to 7.1 .... not sure how many additional subs I should purchase. I am not planning on ATMOS at this time .... I still have a wait and see attitude ...... I'll wait and see how the new room sounds with the new equipment before committing to ATMOS.

All questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome ....... I Love You Guys!!!!!
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Magnepan 1.7's (LR), Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel), Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds), Rythmik F12 (Sub), Emotiva XMC-1 (Processor), Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's, Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds, Oppo BDP-103 (Audio/Video Source), Oppo UDP-203 (Audio/Video Source), Apple TV 4K (Audio/Video Source), Sony PS4 (Audio/Video Source), LG OLED65B6P (Monitor)
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post #7071 of 7173 Old 11-08-2019, 01:22 PM
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Back in the day when I was a young boy I used to: WATWALWUPAP

Write All The Words And Letters When Using Paper And Pencil.

By the by ....... the sheetrock has just been completed in my new music / theater space. The room worked out to be 19Wx24Lx8.5H. I am now starting to budget for more Maggies, Emotiva amps, Rythmik subs, and cabling. Going from 5.1 to 7.1 .... not sure how many additional subs I should purchase. I am not planning on ATMOS at this time .... I still have a wait and see attitude ...... I'll wait and see how the new room sounds with the new equipment before committing to ATMOS.

All questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome ....... I Love You Guys!!!!!

How many subs? It's AVS, sooo... 83.

I started with two and have four totally due to lousy room dimensions. They are all Rythmik F12's so not a lust for power, they are way more than I need in my modest room, but allow me to tune out some nulls and give me the option to run stereo pairs if desired (I have and have not and am not now, nor any desire to play that game again). In general, unless you get really lucky, I would advise two subs assuming you can properly place them to tune out the fundamental room null. Four tend to work better than three if you want to go further, and of course add one for near-field if you like a lot of tactile response.

All that said, I'd see how the one does first, but I'm cheap (OK, belied by all the stuff in the room, but value occurs at many price points).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7072 of 7173 Old 11-08-2019, 07:22 PM
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I used to use IIRC all the time but am thinking I should shorten it to just IIR or maybe IIRAA ("at all").

DonH50. Be careful...there are those among us who could confuse ..."or maybe IIRAA ("at all")
with this: "The RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America)". Like me, for instance
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I bought a riaa player way back when https://www.amazon.com/Rio-600-Digit...H5NB1Z22VG0ZJN ...it was garbage.....edit...i had a rio....lol.... one ofthe 1st mp3 players after they sued mp3 and won lol.


https://cyber.harvard.edu/property00/MP3/rio.html
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc900, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5, Magnepan LRS
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DonH50. Be careful...there are those among us who could confuse ..."or maybe IIRAA ("at all")
with this: "The RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America)". Like me, for instance
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I bought a riaa player way back when https://www.amazon.com/Rio-600-Digit...H5NB1Z22VG0ZJN ...it was garbage.....edit...i had a rio....lol.... one ofthe 1st mp3 players after they sued mp3 and won lol.


https://cyber.harvard.edu/property00/MP3/rio.html
Uh, yeah...

You guys are killing me!

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Speaking of labels. I dropped and scratched my NM copy of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. It is a stereo Columbia release. Went to a local record shop and decided to get a Mobile Fidelity remaster of the same album. This release is a double record 45rpm version which costs more than double.
Here is what is interesting. Both versions sound the same through Polks. But the 3.5/R Magnepans reproduce a clear difference between them. The imaging is better in the MoFi version, plus the bass is more articulate.
I ripped just one track off of both LPs in 192Khz 24bit (the phono was set to RIAA ENHANCED) and uploaded it here if you want to try yourself. The zip file is rather large, around a Gb.
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Site. DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R/Polk LSiM707 || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & T || Power: PS Audio P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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post #7076 of 7173 Old 11-09-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post
Speaking of labels. I dropped and scratched my NM copy of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. It is a stereo Columbia release. Went to a local record shop and decided to get a Mobile Fidelity remaster of the same album. This release is a double record 45rpm version which costs more than double.
Here is what is interesting. Both versions sound the same through Polks. But the 3.5/R Magnepans reproduce a clear difference between them. The imaging is better in the MoFi version, plus the bass is more articulate.
I ripped just one track off of both LPs in 192Khz 24bit (the phono was set to RIAA ENHANCED) and uploaded it here if you want to try yourself. The zip file is rather large, around a Gb.
Yep. the ability of a system to 'resolve' certainly will highlight differences.
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post #7077 of 7173 Old 11-09-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post
Speaking of labels. I dropped and scratched my NM copy of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. It is a stereo Columbia release. Went to a local record shop and decided to get a Mobile Fidelity remaster of the same album. This release is a double record 45rpm version which costs more than double.
Here is what is interesting. Both versions sound the same through Polks. But the 3.5/R Magnepans reproduce a clear difference between them. The imaging is better in the MoFi version, plus the bass is more articulate.
I ripped just one track off of both LPs in 192Khz 24bit (the phono was set to RIAA ENHANCED) and uploaded it here if you want to try yourself. The zip file is rather large, around a Gb.
Awesome!...thanks. 1GB, no sweat with Fios
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post #7078 of 7173 Old 11-09-2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post
Speaking of labels. I dropped and scratched my NM copy of Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. It is a stereo Columbia release. Went to a local record shop and decided to get a Mobile Fidelity remaster of the same album. This release is a double record 45rpm version which costs more than double.
Here is what is interesting. Both versions sound the same through Polks. But the 3.5/R Magnepans reproduce a clear difference between them. The imaging is better in the MoFi version, plus the bass is more articulate.
I ripped just one track off of both LPs in 192Khz 24bit (the phono was set to RIAA ENHANCED) and uploaded it here if you want to try yourself. The zip file is rather large, around a Gb.
The initial listening results on my desktop pc speakers(el-cheapo cute little Dayton Audio MK402X-got nice review by Steve Guttenberg and my Elac 8" sub).
I liked the sound of Columbia over the MobileFidelity record. I have seen rave reviews on this album a number of times. Now, I know why...gotta git me one
I will try your conversions on the LRSs and Emotiva Amp another day.
BTW, what software was used for the conversion?
I've used VinylStudio for Windows since 2015 with Parasound ZPhono preamp RIAA Note from Manual: "The Zphono•USB is unique in that it
allows you to turn off the RIAA EQ and use the digital RIAA EQ in your recording software."
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Last edited by sgibson; 11-09-2019 at 07:25 PM.
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post #7079 of 7173 Old 11-09-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sgibson View Post
The initial listening results on my desktop pc speakers(el-cheapo cute little Dayton Audio MK402X-got nice review by Steve Guttenberg and my Elac 8" sub).
I liked the sound of Columbia over the MobileFidelity record. I have seen rave reviews on this album a number of times. Now, I know why...gotta git me one
I will try your conversions on the LRSs and Emotiva Amp another day.
BTW, what software was used for the conversion?
I've used VinylStudio for Windows since 2015 with Parasound ZPhono preamp RIAA Note from Manual: "The Zphono•USB is unique in that it
allows you to turn off the RIAA EQ and use the digital RIAA EQ in your recording software."
I used Audacity. Never heard of VinylStudio, but it turns out to be excellent. Upgrading to Pro
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Site. DAC: Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amp: Audio Research Reference 75 (75W tube) || Speakers: Magnepan 3.5R/Polk LSiM707 || Sub 1: REL 212/SE (1,000W). Sub 2: REL S/3 (400W). Sub 3: Sunfire TS-EQ12 (2,700W). || Cables: Cardas Clear, MIT Matrix & T || Power: PS Audio P5 || Headphones: HifiMan HE560 || Turntable: Pro-Ject RPM5 w SoundSmith Zephyr MKIII || Phono: Gold Note PH-10 + PSU-10 .
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post #7080 of 7173 Old 11-10-2019, 03:11 AM
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I should be getting my LRS' Monday, probably won't be able to set them up until Wednesday or Thursday. Good timing, as I will probably be recovering from shoulder surgery in a few weeks, and will be getting a lot of music listening and movie watching in(that will be done with my existing Klipsch setup.)
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