Official JTR speaker thread - Page 1236 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #37051 of 39559 Old 03-31-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Sorry JTR folks for hijacking this thread... Actually, not sorry. I've read this whole damn thread and know what kinds of tangents you guys get on
I have to think that there are worse things that could happen to an indy company than 37,000 posts on your forum.
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post #37052 of 39559 Old 03-31-2017, 02:32 PM
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Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. No, I haven't had any technical issues with my SubM, I've just read a bunch of the stories. As I'm sure you are aware, the reports of being unable to reach you seem to be quite frequent and by many different AVS users. I know you are a one man show, but it's a scary prospect to spend a good deal of money and not know if you'll be able to reach that person if something goes wrong. Maybe it's just perception, but there certainly seems to be a strong pattern over time.

Regardless, your sub is spectacular - zero complaints from me in that department. But, yes, I did send you a message with questions about Sparks a few months back but never received a reply. Just apprehensive...
I do certainly prioritize service issues at the top vs sales of products we aren't selling yet. The Sparks aren't shipping quite yet and we're not taking orders for them until we are ready to produce. I am sorry for not just responding with that simple answer.

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Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Sorry JTR folks for hijacking this thread... Actually, not sorry. I've read this whole damn thread and know what kinds of tangents you guys get on
Hijack over.
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post #37053 of 39559 Old 03-31-2017, 03:35 PM
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How would you decide between a Captivator 118HT and a PSA v1801?
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post #37054 of 39559 Old 03-31-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BigBeard View Post
How would you decide between a Captivator 118HT and a PSA v1801?
The Captivator 118HT is in stock, 30% larger cabinet built from stronger materials, uses a driver with 50% more magnet and 33% more steel and has amplifier with XLR inputs, 12v trigger and uses the same ice power modules. The Captivator 118HT will be tested by Data-Bass in April.

Last edited by Jeff Permanian; 04-01-2017 at 07:10 AM.
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post #37055 of 39559 Old 03-31-2017, 04:59 PM
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That PSA v1801 has a very small box for a ported 18 - that's not much bigger than a typical sealed box. No FR specs listed on the PSA specs page? What's the tuning on the PSA box?

Maybe invite PSA to send their v1801 to data-bass for testing - since Jeff is sending his 118HT - you could get an apples to apples -if they play ball.
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post #37056 of 39559 Old 04-01-2017, 07:09 AM
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Looks like BMS decided to make new products out of the compression drivers we have been special ordering:

"BMS High End transducers
Our commitment to sound excellence
The basic design of BMS high frequency drivers already offers enormous advantages, providing 90% lower IM distortion than conventional dome drivers, as well as higher efficiency and phase linearity.
The High End (HE) modifications go one step ahead and raise the bar of audio performance even higher.
Selected materials, additional cooper shorting cups and modified phase-plugs make those transdusers ultimately the best sounding devices available on the market.
Each driver is hand-selected to match +/-0.2dB tolerances, providing the best transducer choice for high resolution studio monitors, high end home audio and superb cinema solutions.
The listener will experience the most dynamic performance and finest details never heard before."

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php...02de7c2b1ddd9d

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php...93he_overview0
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post #37057 of 39559 Old 04-01-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obleo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Hi obleo,

Sorry I don't have all forum handles matched to customer names, but have you personally had any issue getting a service issue resolved?
.
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. No, I haven't had any technical issues with my SubM, I've just read a bunch of the stories. As I'm sure you are aware, the reports of being unable to reach you seem to be quite frequent and by many different AVS users. I know you are a one man show, but it's a scary prospect to spend a good deal of money and not know if you'll be able to reach that person if something goes wrong. Maybe it's just perception, but there certainly seems to be a strong pattern over time.

Regardless, your sub is spectacular - zero complaints from me in that department. But, yes, I did send you a message with questions about Sparks a few months back but never received a reply. Just apprehensive...

Sorry JTR folks for hijacking this thread... Actually, not sorry. I've read this whole damn thread and know what kinds of tangents you guys get on
Not to track further off of the thread topic, but just to chime in. I've handed Mark thousands in green cash money before and never had a second thought. Without going into detail, one project took a turn on my end and needed to be stopped...Mark had my money back to me immediately. One of the best guys on the forum to chat with, do business with and just hang out for that matter. I fully admit that I am probably the most high maintenance customer anyone could have and he has never been too busy to chat...and mind you, I don't have a single Seaton product in my home (I have no theater at the moment). I do intend to outfit my coming surround and atmos needs with the new sparks though
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post #37058 of 39559 Old 04-01-2017, 11:09 AM
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Well that was fast, listed my house for sale on zillow and in 4 days received a full asking price offer. All of my HT stuff is now officially for sale and I'll post the details in the classified section later today. Still need to see what they want but I know for the the 3 JTR 215 RT will be for sale. Will know about the 4 S8 soon. PJ has to go, screen, amps, CHT subs, iNukes, Crest CC4000, Crown 1500xls....all has to go!!

Very doubtful I'll ever get the chance to assemble a full dedicated HT again since we are moving to FL with no basement, less land, etc. Maybe a "modest" 2 channel system is in my future within the year.
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post #37059 of 39559 Old 04-01-2017, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
... I fully admit that I am probably the most high maintenance customer anyone could have and he has never been too busy to chat...and mind you, I don't have a single Seaton product in my home (I have no theater at the moment). I do intend to outfit my coming surround and atmos needs with the new sparks though
Thanks ChopShop,

I'm reminded of two scenes... it's clear you now recognize your uniqueness.

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post #37060 of 39559 Old 04-01-2017, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post
... I fully admit that I am probably the most high maintenance customer anyone could have and he has never been too busy to chat...and mind you, I don't have a single Seaton product in my home (I have no theater at the moment). I do intend to outfit my coming surround and atmos needs with the new sparks though
Thanks ChopShop,

I'm reminded of two scenes... it's clear you now recognize your uniqueness.

Bahahaha. I'm laughing cause it's true, but I'm sad cause it's true. I can't believe I'm sally!!
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post #37061 of 39559 Old 04-01-2017, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
Looks like BMS decided to make new products out of the compression drivers we have been special ordering:

"BMS High End transducers
Our commitment to sound excellence
The basic design of BMS high frequency drivers already offers enormous advantages, providing 90% lower IM distortion than conventional dome drivers, as well as higher efficiency and phase linearity.
The High End (HE) modifications go one step ahead and raise the bar of audio performance even higher.
Selected materials, additional cooper shorting cups and modified phase-plugs make those transducers ultimately the best sounding devices available on the market.
Each driver is hand-selected to match +/-0.2dB tolerances, providing the best transducer choice for high resolution studio monitors, high end home audio and superb cinema solutions.
The listener will experience the most dynamic performance and finest details never heard before."

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php...02de7c2b1ddd9d



http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php...93he_overview0
Very nice so a 4593nd-HE Reinforces my changing...

Out of curiosity Jeff were/are these "High End" upgrades brought on by your requesting and development in working with BMS or something they developed in the last 1.5 yrs or so?
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post #37062 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Very nice so a 4593nd-HE Reinforces my changing...

Out of curiosity Jeff were/are these "High End" upgrades brought on by your requesting and development in working with BMS or something they developed in the last 1.5 yrs or so?
JTR and apparently other companies had requested an even higher end 4593 with improved shorting rings and a full phase plug. BMS starting make them for us and other companies that were using them in high end studio monitors. We've been using that driver for 2 1/2 years now.
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post #37063 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 05:43 PM
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Jeff, is there any plans for a lower cost Atmos type speaker in the works? I like my volt 6s but would sure like some sort of JTR speaker in their place but not shelling out 5k CDN to do it lol.
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post #37064 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 08:49 PM
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Can someone explain the differences, other than the woofer configuration, of these JTR speakers - Noesis 215RM and Noesis 215RT? This one also has me stumped - why would the Noesis 210RT cost as much as the Noesis 212HTR even though they are both 3 way and the 212 has bigger woofers? Does anyone have any of these speakers? Curious how they sound with a horn because I have heard a horn can make them hard on the ears. Maybe this is only with Klipsch!!??
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post #37065 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 4kicknsnd View Post
Can someone explain the differences, other than the woofer configuration, of these JTR speakers - Noesis 215RM and Noesis 215RT? This one also has me stumped - why would the Noesis 210RT cost as much as the Noesis 212HTR even though they are both 3 way and the 212 has bigger woofers? Does anyone have any of these speakers? Curious how they sound with a horn because I have heard a horn can make them hard on the ears. Maybe this is only with Klipsch!!??
RM speakers are the center channel to the RT's. RM's are sealed, RT's ported. RT stands for reference tower.

Cheap compression drivers can make a horn sound harsh. There is no harshness with this level of speaker.

The they both have the same CD which is a big portion of the cost. The 10 inch woofers are higher excursion woofers and the cabinet of the 210 RT is a floor standing speaker and likely costs more to manufacture.
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post #37066 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 4kicknsnd View Post
Can someone explain the differences, other than the woofer configuration, of these JTR speakers - Noesis 215RM and Noesis 215RT? This one also has me stumped - why would the Noesis 210RT cost as much as the Noesis 212HTR even though they are both 3 way and the 212 has bigger woofers? Does anyone have any of these speakers? Curious how they sound with a horn because I have heard a horn can make them hard on the ears. Maybe this is only with Klipsch!!??

The 210 RT's are a full range speaker. Well, full range for music that is. The 212 HTR MUST have a sub(s). The 212 has more headroom because it's ridiculously sensitive. In most rooms you could be at reference at the seats with around 5 watts.

The 210 RT is awesome for 2 channel music since it can be ran full range and I like it better than the 212. I don't like having to use speaker stands either.

I have owned the 212's, had the 228's in my room, owned the 215 RT's, and currently have the 210 RT's in my room. The 210 RT's are my favorites.

All JTR's sound very smooth. If you have preconceived ideas of what horns sound like you will be shocked at how great these sound.
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post #37067 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 08:59 PM
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Beat me by a minute Ray.
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post #37068 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 09:03 PM
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RM speakers are the center channel to the RT's. RM's are sealed, RT's ported. RT stands for reference tower.

Cheap compression drivers can make a horn sound harsh. There is no harshness with this level of speaker.

The they both have the same CD which is a big portion of the cost. The 10 inch woofers are higher excursion woofers and the cabinet of the 210 RT is a floor standing speaker and likely costs more to manufacture.
Man if the RM is a center channel then you better have plenty of room - 34 inches wide and 85 lbs.
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post #37069 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4kicknsnd View Post
Can someone explain the differences, other than the woofer configuration, of these JTR speakers - Noesis 215RM and Noesis 215RT? This one also has me stumped - why would the Noesis 210RT cost as much as the Noesis 212HTR even though they are both 3 way and the 212 has bigger woofers? Does anyone have any of these speakers? Curious how they sound with a horn because I have heard a horn can make them hard on the ears. Maybe this is only with Klipsch!!??
Correlation vs causation.

Horns don't make speakers sound harsh.
Many (most?) speakers with horns do sound harsh, though, due to peaky sound (efficiency at the expense of fidelity), distortion from their tweeter, and/or unbalanced frequency response.

When you take a speaker that's well designed with a primary goal of high fidelity and low distortion, it's a different beast.
The horn helps control off-axis response and efficiency (dramatically lowering distortion).

The horn is just one ingredient, though, but it's a good one, not a bad one.

Virtually every recording studio and movie theater uses horns.
They wouldn't do that if they were bad.

From a technical perspective a horn does a few things:
1) It allows speakers to aim the sound appropriately for the application.
2) It keeps the frequency response consistent as you move off-axis.
3) It creates a high pressure zone at the throat of the horn, allowing the driver to work much more efficiently with much less movement (and associated distortion). Think of it like a drive gear ratio, so that the speaker driver can operate in its sweet spot. Your middle ear actually has a similar mechanism. It's referred to as "impedance matching." Similarly, your middle ear wouldn't bother with the extra complexity if it wasn't important.
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post #37070 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 09:14 PM
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How would you decide between a Captivator 118HT and a PSA v1801?
PSA amp warranty is 5 years versus 3 on JTR. Amps go out more often than drivers
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post #37071 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 09:21 PM
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Man if the RM is a center channel then you better have plenty of room - 34 inches wide and 85 lbs.
Most here have all their speakers vertical so not 34 wide, 34 high

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post #37072 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 09:22 PM
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Man if the RM is a center channel then you better have plenty of room - 34 inches wide and 85 lbs.
Look at the size of the 215RM. 48 inches! I use 212HT(R) at 40 inches.
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post #37073 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 09:34 PM
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Can someone explain the differences, other than the woofer configuration
Aside from the woofer, the horn size, woofer distance, and crossover are all optimized so they can work together as a system.

They are all similarly good, just with different crossover points, low frequency extension, size, weight, shape (tower vs monitor), and efficiency.

IMO, it's best to ask different questions than which is best...

Do you want towers, or are they going behind a screen or in-wall?
Will you be using subs?
What low frequency extension is the best for you subs and room?
How much amp power do you plan to use?
Do you have size constraints?
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post #37074 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 10:46 PM
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Most here have all their speakers vertical so not 34 wide, 34 high
I thought most center channels are positioned horizontally?
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post #37075 of 39559 Old 04-02-2017, 10:48 PM
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I thought most center channels are positioned horizontally?
Not around here.
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post #37076 of 39559 Old 04-03-2017, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 4kicknsnd View Post
I thought most center channels are positioned horizontally?
Check out these links:
http://www.seymourav.com/centerbestpractice.asp
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...peaker-designs
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...hannel-designs

Three identical vertical speakers with the center behind an acoustically transparent screen is best.

Without an AT screen, you want the tweeter and midrange as close as possible to the screen, and horizontal is usually the practical way to accomplish that.

If you have a symmetrical room layout that can provide great imaging, and you are primarily concerned with the center seat, a phantom center can actually give superior results over a horizontal center speaker. The main benefit of a center speaker is to anchor the sound for off-axis seats or an asymmetric room that can't provide perfect imaging.

The potential downsides of a good horizontal center is that that it will sound a bit different than the LRs, and it will sound like the center sound is coming from below the screen.
Also, if it's not a good horizontal center, as described in the Audioholics article, you can get significant lobing problems in the off axis response, depending on the speaker and listening angle.
With three identical vertical speakers at the same height, with the center speaker behind the screen, there are zero downsides to using a center speaker - only advantages (better imaging for all seats, perfectly matched sound, sound coming from the proper height).
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Finally getting my butt working on the theater again.

Here is the latest glamor shot.
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post #37078 of 39559 Old 04-04-2017, 06:21 AM
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Finally getting my butt working on the theater again.

Here is the latest glamor shot.
How's your subwoofer response there? Typically suggested is 1/4 - 1/3 distances from outside walls in your room, but of course I can't see how wide your room is in that pic. Basically, I'm asking did you pick the 4000ULF position by measurement or by looks. It looks good, but that isn't the criteria is most prefer. (Especially behind the AT screen). No offense intended.

And yes that looks absolutely fantastic.

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post #37079 of 39559 Old 04-04-2017, 08:28 AM
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How's your subwoofer response there? Typically suggested is 1/4 - 1/3 distances from outside walls in your room, but of course I can't see how wide your room is in that pic. Basically, I'm asking did you pick the 4000ULF position by measurement or by looks. It looks good, but that isn't the criteria is most prefer. (Especially behind the AT screen). No offense intended.

And yes that looks absolutely fantastic.
Placement testing is this upcoming weekend. Yes, this was just a glamor shot only.
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post #37080 of 39559 Old 04-04-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Jeff, is there any plans for a lower cost Atmos type speaker in the works? I like my volt 6s but would sure like some sort of JTR speaker in their place but not shelling out 5k CDN to do it lol.
@Jeff Permanian I am very interested in this as well! I'm sure there's others out there besides us.

Buy my awesome gear so I can buy more awesome gear! ...please...
Will get around to listing soon, PM me if interested: barely used Crest Audio CC4000 Amplifier, Crown XTI 2002 Amplifier, barely used Emotiva Basx A-500 Amplifier
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215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp , noesis

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