GoldenEar Technologies Anticipation Thread - Page 183 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 823Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5461 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 03:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,322
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Most if not all speakers have impedance curves from 2 to as high as 16 ohms or higher. Lower frequency is where the dip occurs and high frequency is the where the rise occurs. Its the nominal impedance of the speaker that is typically published in most marketing material.

It appears based on test graphs from soundstage.com the Impedance magnitude variation on the T1r is about 3 ohms from 300hz - 450hz.

IIRC you have a thread comparing or wanting comments of the T1r vs the KEF R11. The same website using the same graph shows the KEF lives in the 4 ohm area in most of the audio band. So for that speaker you will need an amp the can live and perform at 4 ohms most all the time. Lets take a look at different speaker the Revel Ultima Salon2. That speaker shows a rises between 1.5khz and 2.5khz as high as 14 ohms (based on my eye site). From an amps perspective you loose power the higher the impedance.

This same variant is also true in SPL ratings. Of course it varies at distance (normally published for 1 meter). However it also varies by frequency and by listening angle both vertical and horizontal. Like your concern about SPL earlier the average SPL on the T1r is just a smidge under 90dB which in hi fi and home theater is considered an efficient speaker.

A better question to ask is what amp or AVR are you planning to use?

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5462 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 08:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
A better question to ask is what amp or AVR are you planning to use?

I have narrowed it down (so far) to either a: Marantz 7705 pre-pro and 7055 amp combo - or the Marantz 8012/8014 AVR; or a Yamaha 5200 pre-pro and 5200 amp combo - or the Yamaha 3080/3090 AVR

I have also narrowed (so far) my speaker choice down to either the: Triton One.R; or Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL X + Dynamo sub.

I listened to the KEF R11 and it was just way too laid back and congested sounding - I was actually surprised at how "bad" (to me) it sounded.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
New24K is online now  
post #5463 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 08:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Also, if I go the Yamaha pre-pro/amp route - the new 5200 amp allows you to bridge the front two speakers.

So the two front speakers will get 200 Watts vs. the normal 150 Watts unbridged.

But I have been told that bridging a speaker that goes down to 2-ohms is a bad idea.

I like everything in my system to match - speakers, audio, etc.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X

Last edited by New24K; 09-21-2019 at 08:50 AM.
New24K is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5464 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 12:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,322
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Not sure about the present day Martin Logan but back in the day I was one of the first Summit owners on the east coast after meeting Gayle Saunders (Sanders?) at CES in 2006 IIRC. ML stats can get rather low too. However I have neen seen any graph of the newer models.

I'd say with that equipment you should be fine however I would contact you dealer to arrange a conference call with the manufacturer. I know some Marantz and Yamaha dealers that could possibly arrange this perhaps.

Good luck.

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #5465 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 12:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,322
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Separate amp might perform better since it has a dedicated power supply.

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #5466 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 07:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 8
Hey everyone, forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I tried looking, this thread is huge, and the search feature is limited.

Anyways. Are there any plans to offer a non-“sock” exterior for the rest of the Triton series?
Gplusplus is offline  
post #5467 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 07:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplusplus View Post
Hey everyone, forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I tried looking, this thread is huge, and the search feature is limited.

Anyways. Are there any plans to offer a non-“sock” exterior for the rest of the Triton series?

If I was a betting man I would say yes - given from all of the accolades GoldenEar is getting for its new great looking speakers - the Reference and One.R

But then again, they came out with a new "matching" (not in looks) center channel for the Reference speakers and dropped the ball and gave it a sock exterior.

So...

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
New24K is online now  
post #5468 of 5487 Old 09-21-2019, 11:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,322
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 516
^^^

What do you plan to use for center, surrounds and overheads?

J

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #5469 of 5487 Old 09-22-2019, 08:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
^^^

What do you plan to use for center, surrounds and overheads?

J

If you are asking me -

If I decide on the One.R - then the BRX and SuperSat 3.

Since the new center doesn't match the One.R and BRX - I will be running it in phantom mode.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
New24K is online now  
post #5470 of 5487 Old 09-22-2019, 10:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,322
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 516
Based on the money you are planning to eventually spend I’d consider the BRX for surrounds. If you have walls you can access the INVISA SPX would be a good option. I have used them with good feedback.

Any plans for Atmos? HTR7000 would ideal.

Do you have any pics or scaled drawings of the room?

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #5471 of 5487 Old 09-22-2019, 11:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by New24K View Post
If you are asking me -

If I decide on the One.R - then the BRX and SuperSat 3.

Since the new center doesn't match the One.R and BRX - I will be running it in phantom mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
Based on the money you are planning to eventually spend I’d consider the BRX for surrounds. If you have walls you can access the INVISA SPX would be a good option. I have used them with good feedback.

Any plans for Atmos? HTR7000 would ideal.

Yes, I would be using the One.Rs as fronts; 2 BRXs as rears; and 4 SuperSat 3 as Atmos.

It would be a 4."2".4 - since I will be running the One.Rs in phantom-center mode.

The ".2" is because I would run the One.Rs as LARGE.

I will be running speaker wires through walls/ceilings - but not the speakers themselves.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
New24K is online now  
post #5472 of 5487 Old 09-22-2019, 11:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 4,322
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1006 Post(s)
Liked: 516
HTR7000 would be a better Atmos choice imho.

If you don’t mind the fabric the SC-Ref under the LG would be a great center and better choice than a phantom center.

Again any room pics?

Mike Miles
[email protected]
mmiles is offline  
post #5473 of 5487 Old 09-22-2019, 11:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
HTR7000 would be a better Atmos choice imho.

If you don’t mind the fabric the SC-Ref under the LG would be a great center and better choice than a phantom center.

Again any room pics?

Yeah, but I don't like the sock (as many don't) - GoldenEar really dropped the ball with that one.

Making a, by all accounts, beautiful piano gloss black Reference speaker, and now One.R - but then sticking to the old sock look for the center speaker that is supposed to match them.

GoldenEar picked up a lot of people who dismissed their speakers because of the sock look - when they went with the piano gloss black look for the Reference, and now One.R.

Maybe, a big maybe, if it was for a dedicated theater room the center sock would be OK - but this is for a living room.

No room pics at the moment - I tend to move around quite a bit - for my job - thus not wanting to put the speakers in the walls/ceilings, etc.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X

Last edited by New24K; 09-23-2019 at 06:53 PM.
New24K is online now  
post #5474 of 5487 Old 09-24-2019, 05:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 8
Upon reading random threads on GoldenEar's own forums, it seems as though the "sock" material contributes to the dampening of the speakers. They have been designed with this dampening in mind. So even if you prefer the unfinished look without the sock, technically, you'd be running the speaker outside of its intended specifications, so to speak. I'm not saying it would sound bad, all I'm saying is that Sandy and his team did design the speakers to have that cloth over the drivers, and they've been tuned as such.

Looking at the Triton One.R and Reference, it's clear that the cloth should absolutely be present over the drivers. If you apply the same logic to the center channel speakers, there's not a whole lot of surface area even available for a non-sock look. With drivers on both the front and the top, it only really leaves the sides open for a finished appearance. At that point, we're talking such a small surface area that it almost doesn't even matter.

My conclusion is this: the design of the Triton and SuperCenter series are unique and have a unique tradeoff in order to hit the level of value. On one hand, they're able to provide a very slim profile, which is especially advantageous with the center channel; you're able to get it closer to the display without occlusion. Another interesting point is that since there's cloth on the top of the center channel, you won't get a reflection from your display, so again, placement flexibility becomes even better. Why this isn't spun into a positive in GoldenEar's marketing material is beyond me, but I do feel like there's some added benefit behind this.

So after being as open minded as I can possibly be about the sock-look, I have two constructive criticisms for Sandy and his team: trickle down the current design of the Triton One.R to the rest of the powered Triton lineup, plus make all of the cloth on all of the speakers (Triton, SuperCenter, and others) easily removable for cleaning and replacement as needed. Dust and animal hair are neither wife nor hygiene approved, and constant cleaning will wear them out, so we need to be able to cheaply replace the cloth as needed.

Gplusplus is offline  
post #5475 of 5487 Old 09-24-2019, 03:04 PM
Senior Member
 
blSwagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by New24K View Post
Yes, I would be using the One.Rs as fronts; 2 BRXs as rears; and 4 SuperSat 3 as Atmos.

It would be a 4."2".4 - since I will be running the One.Rs in phantom-center mode.

The ".2" is because I would run the One.Rs as LARGE.

I will be running speaker wires through walls/ceilings - but not the speakers themselves.

Wouldn't it be better to run the One.Rs in small so that your amplifier doesn't have to amplify frequencies below your crossover?
blSwagger is offline  
post #5476 of 5487 Old 09-24-2019, 05:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lefthandluke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,343
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by blSwagger View Post
Wouldn't it be better to run the One.Rs in small so that your amplifier doesn't have to amplify frequencies below your crossover?

no...the built-in crossover and dsp in the One.R afford it prodigious bass output and at the same time sound more coherent and smooth...it just blends together really well. running it "small" takes all that away and puts it in the hands of the processor's crossover.

at the zenith of his nadir...
lefthandluke is offline  
post #5477 of 5487 Old 09-24-2019, 06:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
The GoldenEars can't be bi-amped...

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
New24K is online now  
post #5478 of 5487 Old 09-27-2019, 08:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lefthandluke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,343
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 334
^^^

deal breaker...?

at the zenith of his nadir...
lefthandluke is offline  
post #5479 of 5487 Old 09-27-2019, 10:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post
^^^

deal breaker...?

Not really...

The lack of a matching (aesthetically) center concerns me more.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X

Last edited by New24K; 09-28-2019 at 09:03 AM.
New24K is online now  
post #5480 of 5487 Old 09-28-2019, 12:48 AM
Member
 
duffda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 14
BRX Speakers

The new BRX speakers sound like another exciting Goldenear product.

Just curious about the demo at CEDIA...

What electronics did they use in the demo system, and what sources? Was there a particular set of demo material used to show off the speakers?
duffda is offline  
post #5481 of 5487 Old 09-28-2019, 07:58 AM
Senior Member
 
sonic debauchery's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffda View Post
The new BRX speakers sound like another exciting Goldenear product.

Just curious about the demo at CEDIA...

What electronics did they use in the demo system, and what sources? Was there a particular set of demo material used to show off the speakers?
Look at post 5455
sonic debauchery is offline  
post #5482 of 5487 Old 09-28-2019, 02:43 PM
Senior Member
 
goldenear tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Reason Why We Kept the Sock on the SuperCenters

Quote:
Originally Posted by New24K View Post
Yeah, but I don't like the sock (as many don't) - GoldenEar really dropped the ball with that one.

Making a, by all accounts, beautiful piano gloss black Reference speaker, and now One.R - but then sticking to the old sock look for the center speaker that is supposed to match them.

GoldenEar picked up a lot of people who dismissed their speakers because of the sock look - when they went with the piano gloss black look for the Reference, and now One.R.

Maybe, a big maybe, if it was for a dedicated theater room the center sock would be OK - but this is for a living room.

No room pics at the moment - I tend to move around quite a bit - for my job - thus not wanting to put the speakers in the walls/ceilings, etc.
Hi, We felt that since the SuperCenters are often placed under the TV, if it had a gloss upper surface, you would be getting reflection off it. Also, realistically speaking, in envisioning making the cabinet all gloss, given that you would need a grille on the front as well as over the passives on top, it just didn't seem to make sense. I think that with the gloss end caps, it still matches well. Thanks, Sandy
Edi-MC likes this.
goldenear tech is offline  
post #5483 of 5487 Old 09-29-2019, 04:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lefthandluke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 1,343
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 334
I hafta agree with Sandy. I used to have a Focal cc800w center that had a beautiful finish, including a gloss black top. Although you cant really tell from the attached pic, reflections from the TV were definitely an issue...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1154.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	191.5 KB
ID:	2621508  

at the zenith of his nadir...
lefthandluke is offline  
post #5484 of 5487 Old 09-29-2019, 05:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 3,028
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2453 Post(s)
Liked: 1174
No big deal... to each his own.

I, and many others (a majority if I had to bet), do not like the sock - and won't buy anything with a sock.

Shopping List:
TV: LG C9/C10, or Samsung Q90R, or Sony ...
Blu-ray: Panasonic UB820, or Pioneer Elite LX500, or Sony X800M
AVR/Pre-pro: Marantz 8805/7705 or 8012, or Yamaha 5200 or 3080
Speakers: GE Triton One.R, or ML ElectroMotion ESL X
New24K is online now  
post #5485 of 5487 Old 09-30-2019, 05:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by New24K View Post
No big deal... to each his own. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

I, and many others (a majority if I had to bet), do not like the sock - and won't buy anything with a sock.
Sandy engineered the Triton towers to sound incredible yet be more affordable than other options out there. I, and many others (a majority if I had to bet &#x1f609, care more about how our speakers sound than how they look. I had the Triton Ones for several years and now own Triton Reference towers and in no way shape or form did the sock diminish my love of the Ones.
captainbrent and brireeves629 like this.

Pre/Pro: Marantz 8805 AMPS: Outlaw Audio 7700 & Emotiva Gen 3
Spkrs: GoldenEar T-Ref, SC Ref, SS 3's, T5's & HTR 7000 x 4 Sub: SVS SB16 x 2
Display: Epson 5050UB & 110" SI 7 Series Zero Edge Black Diamond
Blu-Ray: Panasonic DP-UB820-K
John Budny is offline  
post #5486 of 5487 Old 09-30-2019, 07:01 PM
Member
 
Edi-MC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by New24K View Post
No big deal... to each his own.

I, and many others (a majority if I had to bet), do not like the sock - and won't buy anything with a sock.
I, on the other hand, absolutely LOVE the sock look!
captainbrent likes this.
Edi-MC is offline  
post #5487 of 5487 Old 10-03-2019, 08:58 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edi-MC View Post
I, on the other hand, absolutely LOVE the sock look!
This sock thing. When I bought my Triton 2s when they first came out, I did for two reasons. They sounded wonderful, and they broke the shiny box ennui that plagues the business. I loved the minimal design aesthetic. They match my system's minimal look – no subwoofer, center speaker behind the display, all electronics behind dark glass in a low profile stand. When the speakers are toed in towards the sweet spot, only the front of the sock is noticeable, so shiny sides would not be conspicuous anyway. Even the new speakers still have a grill on the front.

So next week I’m going to a Goldenears dealer with a view to upgrade to what will probably be my last system before I take Ieave of this planet, and how they sound will take up 90% of my interest. The other 10%? Well, sock is good, shiny is ok if I have to. I can live with it. After all, I lived with a pair of Gales for 10 years and I survived.
captainbrent likes this.
Vandellyn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off