JBL Pro 3677 Have arrived!!! - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 790 Old 06-10-2014, 04:37 PM
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+ 1 for room treatments. Start with behind the speakers, then first reflections, then bass traps. IMO. Go budget on something else to add the treatments.
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post #392 of 790 Old 06-10-2014, 07:55 PM
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Another +1

Finally deciding to treat my room and make some DIY sound panels was one of the best decisions I made to improve sq in my theater. Night and day difference.

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post #393 of 790 Old 06-11-2014, 05:57 AM
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Hey, ported subs don't hit harder, it depends on the IB. My 4 LLT's with 18's, 4 horn loaded 15's, dual DTS-10's, and every other system I have owned or built does not hit as hard as my IB! Yes placement is key but you have to do it right.

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post #394 of 790 Old 06-11-2014, 05:58 AM
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Oh yeah room treatments are a must but controlled directivity in horns work better than normal speakers without room treatments.

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post #395 of 790 Old 06-11-2014, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Harder may be the wrong word. It's just different. My ib can sake the room, it's quite impressive,I keep my gain at half and don't even use all of my amp, but the sound is just different. I wouldn't call one an upgrade over the other, ported vs ib. They are just different, sure it could be argued ib is cleaner, but I don't notice it, all my subs have sounded great. I often hear my old sonotube sub in my buddies theater we built him, and every time i kinda miss the way it hits vs living with ib for about 3 years.
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post #396 of 790 Old 06-11-2014, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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And horns will help with a few reflections depending on how they are positioned, but you'll still have at least one side wall most likely, and rear wall. but because most of the vocals are coming out of the woofers (unless the are crossed like the 4722 really low) vocals average 1k, so the majority of the vocals don't get the benefit of the horn, so treatments are still just as necessary as with any other speaker.
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post #397 of 790 Old 06-11-2014, 10:55 PM
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Hey guys,

I've got 3677's as well and am planning on doing room treatments. I've got 2" thick panels of OC703 and plan on treating first reflections, behind the screen, and the back wall. Question about treating the front wall behind the screen...the JBLs are behind a 120" AT screen and about 3 feet from the back wall. I can place panels on the front wall behind the screen and speakers or I have a 4 foot by 8 foot piece of plywood that I've painted flat black that I can position directly behind the speakers so that it's just about touching the back of the mains. Then I would place the acoustic panels on the board in between the speakers almost like a false wall. It would extend up to about flush with the top of the JBLs. Opinions on this?

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post #398 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 01:25 AM
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+1 for room treatments!
But to kill the side-wall reflection with absorbing material is not always the way to go. Especially with good speakers like the JBL's which have been designed with a smooth off-axis response in mind. Then the side-wall reflections can actually improve the soundstage.

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post #399 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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post #400 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jkkwaz View Post
Hey guys,

I've got 3677's as well and am planning on doing room treatments. I've got 2" thick panels of OC703 and plan on treating first reflections, behind the screen, and the back wall. Question about treating the front wall behind the screen...the JBLs are behind a 120" AT screen and about 3 feet from the back wall. I can place panels on the front wall behind the screen and speakers or I have a 4 foot by 8 foot piece of plywood that I've painted flat black that I can position directly behind the speakers so that it's just about touching the back of the mains. Then I would place the acoustic panels on the board in between the speakers almost like a false wall. It would extend up to about flush with the top of the JBLs. Opinions on this?

The wall behind the speakers is often treated but really isn't a reflection point, I treated being mine and didn't really notice a difference as like I said it's not a reflection point. Of course with rear ported speakers it would make sense. But Heck why not do it.

As for how to treat the front wall. I was kinda thinking about treating mine for my next room, why not. I was kinda leaning toward building a baffle wall (panels would be even with speaker baffles) kinda like theaters do and treating that wall completely around the 3677s. I'm not sure if its the best way to go, but from what I've read it seems it is.

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post #401 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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+1 for room treatments!
But to kill the side-wall reflection with absorbing material is not always the way to go. Especially with good speakers like the JBL's which have been designed with a smooth off-axis response in mind. Then the side-wall reflections can actually improve the soundstage.

Side wall reflections are never good. Those reflections are another copy of the source which rear your ears milliseconds after the source. Off axis response is in reference to being off axis from the source (the speaker) not reflections. multiple copies of the source bombarding your ears at different times which slur the source is never a good thing.
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post #402 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 09:36 AM
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Side wall reflections are never good. Those reflections are another copy of the source which rear your ears milliseconds after the source. Off axis response is in reference to being off axis from the source (the speaker) not reflections. multiple copies of the source bombarding your ears at different times which slur the source is never a good thing.
If you read some of the litterature (for example by Floyd Toole which I believe have worked at JBL/Harman), you will see that he mentions that early reflections can enhance the perceived sound quality. His conclusion is, that if you have speakers with smooth off axis-response, then the early reflection points should be treated with diffusion. Speakers with bad off-axis should be absorbed.
The theaters designed by installers like Dennis Erskine, doesn't kill the side wall reflections with absorption either.

And I do mean off-axis response in reference of the actual speaker - that is exactly the response which is being reflected (because the wall is off-axis in regards to the speakers) and thats why it's important when figuring out how the reflections should be treated.

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post #403 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Diffusion treats the reflection. they aren't left untreated. I personally wouldn't want to leave any untreated.

Art sonneborns theater is an Erskine design if I'm not mistaken and his walls are treated. But theirs more than one way to skin a cat.
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post #404 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 01:01 PM
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First thing you wanna do is get rid of all the slap echoes. Big source of issues. My room had it bad. In my room I got great results from putting panels for absorption down the side walls about every foot and a half starting at the first reflection. I think it's important to also put absorption behind the screenwall from floor to ceiling and wall to wall. Most all cinemas do it If they don't use baffle walls which is the best choice. Use pink fluffy insulation and cover it with black speaker cloth so the image doesn't reflect through the AT screen onto it. That's a great start. Treating behind screen wall seems to help reduce SBIR. I had put panels on my back wall but thought it sounded better leaving them off for more diffusion. Ymmv

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post #405 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 04:33 PM
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My replacement speaker is on a truck for delivery today. Very happy about that. I also finally got my 50 foot extensions for 3.5mm cable and hdmi. On my day off this week I'm gonna eq each speakers individual response according to this guide here

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87538.0

Any thoughts from you guys if I should eq the speakers and then run audyssey, or vice versa. Also gonna use rephase to generate fir filters. I'm assuming that step should have both audyssey and the parametric eq in the chain when I run it.

My next two upgrades are going to be subs, and room treatments. Been talking to FOH about room treatments, but I wanted others opinions on this too. What will be the biggest improvement in overall system sound initially. Add in the subs (probably an IB install and try some diy flatpacks for frequency smoothing), or do the room treatments first and subs later? It's a living room so no treatments currently, and my current sub is a PSA xv-15se.
Well the replacement came in damaged. So frustrating, I'm gonna have at least 5 speakers in my house before I have 3 good ones. This time it was so bad it was funny. UPS took my package to Illinois, before sending it to Texas, where it stayed for 2 days. Then back to California. It's sad because it's shipping from a location in southern California about 7 hours away from me. Somewhere along the way the speaker was dropped, all the foam on the top was crushed into little pieces and half the box came up missing. So I received two boxes held together with a half a roll of packing tape. Here's hoping this next one is okay!
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post #406 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 05:44 PM
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Well the replacement came in damaged. So frustrating, I'm gonna have at least 5 speakers in my house before I have 3 good ones. This time it was so bad it was funny. UPS took my package to Illinois, before sending it to Texas, where it stayed for 2 days. Then back to California. It's sad because it's shipping from a location in southern California about 7 hours away from me. Somewhere along the way the speaker was dropped, all the foam on the top was crushed into little pieces and half the box came up missing. So I received two boxes held together with a half a roll of packing tape. Here's hoping this next one is okay!
Dam that sucks. Ups employees must love soccer cause it always looks like they've been using the packages as balls lol. I've had bad luck shipping speakers too
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post #407 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 06:42 PM
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I was advised start to finish by an acoustics company -

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2086.jpg
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ID:	112881 <-- 4" OC 703 on the wall, bass traps floor to ceiling

Not pictured - 4" OC 703 with 1.5" air gap for first reflections. For me and my room - this is the single best thing I did for any acoustics above the LFE content.

Back wall - three 6" panels w/ 1.5" air gap OC 703 , 4" straddled OC 703 with pink fluffy x 13 lft

L area of the room - 2" OC 703 spot panels x 6 lft. No air gap. 24 oz acoustical curtains over the slider.

Each addition measured improvements, some more than others.

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post #408 of 790 Old 06-12-2014, 06:43 PM
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Well the replacement came in damaged. So frustrating, I'm gonna have at least 5 speakers in my house before I have 3 good ones. This time it was so bad it was funny. UPS took my package to Illinois, before sending it to Texas, where it stayed for 2 days. Then back to California. It's sad because it's shipping from a location in southern California about 7 hours away from me. Somewhere along the way the speaker was dropped, all the foam on the top was crushed into little pieces and half the box came up missing. So I received two boxes held together with a half a roll of packing tape. Here's hoping this next one is okay!
Sorry you're having such sh*tty luck!
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post #409 of 790 Old 06-13-2014, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I was advised start to finish by an acoustics company -

Attachment 112881 <-- 4" OC 703 on the wall, bass traps floor to ceiling

Not pictured - 4" OC 703 with 1.5" air gap for first reflections. For me and my room - this is the single best thing I did for any acoustics above the LFE content.

Back wall - three 6" panels w/ 1.5" air gap OC 703 , 4" straddled OC 703 with pink fluffy x 13 lft

L area of the room - 2" OC 703 spot panels x 6 lft. No air gap. 24 oz acoustical curtains over the slider.

Each addition measured improvements, some more than others.

You definitely don't have to worry about reflections anymore....and 4" panels with an air gap... very nice! Once you get everything dialed in can you give a little review of the changes it's made to the speakers overall sound?
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post #410 of 790 Old 06-13-2014, 11:10 AM
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^^ pretty well dialed now. The first reflections toned down the brightness, and made reference level listening enjoyable vs. fatiguing. Cleaned it up some too.
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post #411 of 790 Old 06-14-2014, 09:26 AM
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Sorry if this seems like a silly question, but does anyone play video game with these jbl's? I tend to game a lot in the theatre.
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post #412 of 790 Old 06-14-2014, 09:28 AM
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Sorry if this seems like a silly question, but does anyone play video game with these jbl's? I tend to game a lot in the theatre.
My 6 year old son does. It sounds phenomenal on all the crappy kids games he plays. I never realized how much bass content was mixed into game soundtracks.
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post #413 of 790 Old 06-15-2014, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ pretty well dialed now. The first reflections toned down the brightness, and made reference level listening enjoyable vs. fatiguing. Cleaned it up some too.

Just curious why you have them flipped upside down? Most ( a little over half at that crossover point) of your vocals are coming out of the woofer and it may sound even better with the horn shooting over your head instead of right at you and the woofer more on axis. Maybe you already tried that and I missed it.

Also, jbls idea of stuffing is pretty sad, it's super thin. This speaker is very similar to the 4pi, so I took my 3677 and added some r13 like the 4pi and lots of diy projects use. It noticeably made the vocals even smoother.

Just something you may want to try.

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post #414 of 790 Old 06-15-2014, 09:52 AM
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^^ pretty well dialed now. The first reflections toned down the brightness, and made reference level listening enjoyable vs. fatiguing. Cleaned it up some too.

Just curious why you have them flipped upside down? Most ( a little over half at that crossover point) of your vocals are coming out of the woofer and it may sound even better with the horn shooting over your head instead of right at you and the woofer more on axis. Maybe you already tried that and I missed it.

Also, jbls idea of stuffing is pretty sad, it's super thin. This speaker is very similar to the 4pi, so I took my 3677 and added some r13 like the 4pi and lots of diy projects use. It noticeably made the vocals even smoother.

Just something you may want to try.

Shelf they sit on is ! 53" high. The tweeter is just above ear height as it is, flipping them puts the tweeter above ear height even when standing!

I talked with JBL Pro Audio tech support and this was the outcome.
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post #415 of 790 Old 06-20-2014, 08:18 PM
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How far do you guys think the 4722n's would have to be spaced behind an AT screen to not make it wobble? I've heard of UXL-18's making the screen ripple with all the air it's moving, but I really don't want to have to allocate any more real-estate behind the screen than absolutely necessary.
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post #416 of 790 Old 06-20-2014, 08:21 PM
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How far do you guys think the 4722n's would have to be spaced behind an AT screen to not make it wobble? I've heard of UXL-18's making the screen ripple with all the air it's moving, but I really don't want to have to allocate any more real-estate behind the screen than absolutely necessary.
They shouldn't vibrate the screen at all. That'll come from cranking your subs.
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post #417 of 790 Old 06-21-2014, 12:14 AM
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I had ordered 4x 8350's for my rears from Full Compass with a pretty good discount, but they now stopped carrying the big 4722n's. I called spectrum audio and they quoted $1400/each. Does that sound right or is there somewhere else I should contact?
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post #418 of 790 Old 06-21-2014, 07:31 AM
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I had ordered 4x 8350's for my rears from Full Compass with a pretty good discount, but they now stopped carrying the big 4722n's. I called spectrum audio and they quoted $1400/each. Does that sound right or is there somewhere else I should contact?
The 4722n is 1251.99 shipped from spectrum audio. Their website shows the correct pricing, calling the company for quotes appears to be a useless endeavor. I called for a quote on the 3252n and was given a price of 875.00 per speaker via email a couple days later. I bought them for 620.00 from their website as it was the cheapest price I could find. Why the disparity? Who knows.
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post #419 of 790 Old 06-21-2014, 02:29 PM
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I just checked it out online and Spectrum Audio is $1,739.00/each for 4722n's. Maybe I just need to wait for some kind of sale?
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post #420 of 790 Old 06-21-2014, 02:39 PM
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I just checked it out online and Spectrum Audio is $1,739.00/each for 4722n's. Maybe I just need to wait for some kind of sale?
Create an account with them and log in
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