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post #5671 of 9159 Old 01-06-2017, 03:16 PM
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Dennis,
Is there any information (such as photos) from Parts Express that you can provide about the successor .50 cu ft. cabinets for the New Philharmonitor speakers?


Would there be any advantage in mounting the New Philharmonitor drivers in a remaining .75 cu ft. cabinet from the previous supplier, i.e., could that combination and port twiddling lower the -3dB point without causing adverse effects, or is that cabinet too large? (I am way more interested in quality of sound rather than quantity of sound. So having a larger woofer or multiple woofers to provide room shaking bass volume is not needed.)


Photos on the Parts Express site show only two holes in the backs of their cabinets. In standard form can the New Philharmonitors be biamped? If not, how much more would it cost to make a pair with that capability?


Is there any information that you can provide about development progress on the Quasi-Affordable Monitor?
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post #5672 of 9159 Old 01-06-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Schmader View Post
Dennis,
Is there any information (such as photos) from Parts Express that you can provide about the successor .50 cu ft. cabinets for the New Philharmonitor speakers?


Would there be any advantage in mounting the New Philharmonitor drivers in a remaining .75 cu ft. cabinet from the previous supplier, i.e., could that combination and port twiddling lower the -3dB point without causing adverse effects, or is that cabinet too large? (I am way more interested in quality of sound rather than quantity of sound. So having a larger woofer or multiple woofers to provide room shaking bass volume is not needed.)


Photos on the Parts Express site show only two holes in the backs of their cabinets. In standard form can the New Philharmonitors be biamped? If not, how much more would it cost to make a pair with that capability?


Is there any information that you can provide about development progress on the Quasi-Affordable Monitor?
The new Parts Express cabinets are in stock, so there's no need to try and retrofit the New Philharmonitor drivers in a .75 cu ft cabinet, which would be too large for the Revelator 5.5" woofer. The new units look exactly like the old ones, although they are only available in curved cabinets and in cherry and piano black (no maple). So you can see what the cherry versions would look like on my site. The cabinets come with two pre-drilled holes for binding posts. It's trivial to drill two more and install 4 posts, along with separate woofer and tweeter circuits to allow bi-amping or bi-wiring. That would only add about $15 to the cost.
I finished a prototype of the Quasi-Affordable Care Act, I mean monitor, and sent it out to a buyer for a trial yesterday. If I go ahead with it, the price will be $750/pr. For that you get the basic sound of the regular Philharmonitor, but with about 7 Hz less bass extension. I haven't done the smaller sealed version yet--that's up for next week.

Last edited by Dennis Murphy; 01-07-2017 at 08:31 AM.
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post #5673 of 9159 Old 01-07-2017, 04:07 AM
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Dennis,
What woofer did you use with the Quasi AM ?? Did you use the .38 or .25 cu ft cabinets? I'm still hoping PE restocks the shallower square cabinets so I can use them as on wall surrounds....

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post #5674 of 9159 Old 01-07-2017, 08:36 AM
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Dennis,
What woofer did you use with the Quasi AM ?? Did you use the .38 or .25 cu ft cabinets? I'm still hoping PE restocks the shallower square cabinets so I can use them as on wall surrounds....
I'm using a 5" aluminum unit from Zaph Audio. It goes high enough smoothly to mate with the RAAL tweeter. Very few woofers do that well. It can also function well sealed in a smaller cabinet, which makes it a good candidate for surround applications. The version I've finished is ported and uses the .38 cu ft cabinets. The smaller sealed version will use the .25 cu ft cabinet. PE dropped the rectangular cabinets. They just weren't selling enough of them to justify the complexity of building two different designs.
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post #5675 of 9159 Old 01-07-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I'm using a 5" aluminum unit from Zaph Audio. It goes high enough smoothly to mate with the RAAL tweeter. Very few woofers do that well. It can also function well sealed in a smaller cabinet, which makes it a good candidate for surround applications. The version I've finished is ported and uses the .38 cu ft cabinets. The smaller sealed version will use the .25 cu ft cabinet. PE dropped the rectangular cabinets. They just weren't selling enough of them to justify the complexity of building two different designs.
If someone wants to use the $210/pair AA Monitors in an HT setup what would you suggest they use for a center?

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post #5676 of 9159 Old 01-07-2017, 11:30 AM
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If someone wants to use the $210/pair AA Monitors in an HT setup what would you suggest they use for a center?
If you're looking for a horizontal MTM rather than just using a single AA either standing up or on its side, I still offer the modded version of the Andrew Jones Pioneer C22. I replace the tweeter with a better unit and redo the crossover to accept the new tweeter and level things out overall. It's $125. The finish and voicing match the monitors.
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post #5677 of 9159 Old 01-07-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
If you're looking for a horizontal MTM rather than just using a single AA either standing up or on its side, I still offer the modded version of the Andrew Jones Pioneer C22. I replace the tweeter with a better unit and redo the crossover to accept the new tweeter and level things out overall. It's $125. The finish and voicing match the monitors.
Thanks.

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post #5678 of 9159 Old 01-08-2017, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I'm using a 5" aluminum unit from Zaph Audio.
That's great to hear! I did a comparo a few years ago with usual suspects: SBA poly and paper cone, Scanspeak Discovery, Peerless Nomex, Dayton Ref, and my favorite was Zaph's ZA14. it's the smallest of the bunch so it's limited for bass, but man what fantastic midrange. As musical as the Scan but much better behaved when pushed. The Scan gets rough somewhat easily, but the ZA14's motor is so good it basically sounds the same right until the cone bottoms! I have a dipole in the works right now using it.

I was corresponding with John the other day and trying to talk him into a matching 8", but he's pretty removed from the field atm unfortunately...
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post #5679 of 9159 Old 01-08-2017, 09:07 AM
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That's great to hear! I did a comparo a few years ago with usual suspects: SBA poly and paper cone, Scanspeak Discovery, Peerless Nomex, Dayton Ref, and my favorite was Zaph's ZA14. it's the smallest of the bunch so it's limited for bass, but man what fantastic midrange. As musical as the Scan but much better behaved when pushed. The Scan gets rough somewhat easily, but the ZA14's motor is so good it basically sounds the same right until the cone bottoms! I have a dipole in the works right now using it.

I was corresponding with John the other day and trying to talk him into a matching 8", but he's pretty removed from the field atm unfortunately...
Everyone seems to like that driver. And the price is right. I do wish John would have tried his hand at a 6.5", but I think his goal was to create a driver that was usable in a wide variety of applications, with a very smooth top end.
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post #5680 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
If you're looking for a horizontal MTM rather than just using a single AA either standing up or on its side, I still offer the modded version of the Andrew Jones Pioneer C22. I replace the tweeter with a better unit and redo the crossover to accept the new tweeter and level things out overall. It's $125. The finish and voicing match the monitors.
I bought one a few months ago and i couldn't be happier. Sound is incredibly detailed, for HT voices are so clear. Best $125 you will ever spend in the world of audio. I've had people who spent several times what i did on center channels comment on how much better my Dennis Murphy mod sounded than theirs.
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post #5681 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
If you're looking for a horizontal MTM rather than just using a single AA either standing up or on its side, I still offer the modded version of the Andrew Jones Pioneer C22. I replace the tweeter with a better unit and redo the crossover to accept the new tweeter and level things out overall. It's $125. The finish and voicing match the monitors.
Wow, never knew you did that. Can we send folks coming to this forum complaining about their stock C22 speakers over to you then? (At least a half dozen every month, my guesstimate.)

Unless you think it wouldn't go with the stock B22 speakers...do you think there would be significant enough of a "timbre difference" that even the average untrained/inexpert ear would object to during casual HT usage?
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post #5682 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 07:18 PM
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Wow, never knew you did that. Can we send folks coming to this forum complaining about their stock C22 speakers over to you then? (At least a half dozen every month, my guesstimate.)

Unless you think it wouldn't go with the stock B22 speakers...do you think there would be significant enough of a "timbre difference" that even the average untrained/inexpert ear would object to during casual HT usage?
I think if that were to happen Dennis would be modding a lot more B22s along with the C22s.....
good call........
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post #5683 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 07:43 PM
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I am pretty sure the original affordable accuracy speaker was the B22...I think Dennis quit selling that mod when the price went up on those.

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post #5684 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 07:55 PM
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I am pretty sure the original affordable accuracy speaker was the B22...I think Dennis quit selling that mod when the price went up on those.
Right. As for the stock C22, I've never understood why there are apparently so many complaints about it. It's by far the best of the Andrew Jones Pioneer line--it has the most consistent quality control and the flattest response overall. The tweeter is still a problem, but less so than on the other Pioneers. I can't really offer to mod existing C22's. By the time you counted in round-trip shipping to me, the cost of the new tweeter and crossover components, and my labor, I think it would just get too expensive.
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post #5685 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 08:00 PM
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Dennis, in your opinion, what was the best AA speaker- the mod-ed Pioneer or the current Part Express model?

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post #5686 of 9159 Old 01-09-2017, 08:45 PM
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Dennis, in your opinion, what was the best AA speaker- the mod-ed Pioneer or the current Part Express model?
I think the new model pretty much dominates the older Pioneer mod. There's no comparison in the bass department,and I find the midrange a little cleaner on the PE mod. The Vifa tweeter on the Pioneer mod is a little smoother at the very top, but it doesn't go low enough to mate with the Dayton woofer in the BR-1. All-in-all, I think the only advantage the older AA had was sturdier grill pegs.
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post #5687 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 09:16 AM
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Thanks, Dennis. When I demo'd the B22 (not the B22 affordable accuracy speaker), I felt it was inaccurate and lifeless...but for 100/pr, I guys that is what you get. All I know is I demo's it side by side with the PolkM40 and the Polks were far and away better...and that speaker I ended up not liking very much either!
Would love to hear those new AAs, but I have a feeling that next to my Phil BMR, I won't like them much!

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post #5688 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 09:29 AM
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I can't really offer to mod existing C22's. By the time you counted in round-trip shipping to me, the cost of the new tweeter and crossover components, and my labor, I think it would just get too expensive.
No, I meant having them order a pre-modded C22 from you instead of telling them to buy a totally different center speaker like the BIC FH-6LCR. (Which btw, most Pioneer AJ owners who've tried were quite happy with despite the alleged "timbre (mis)match" issue.)
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post #5689 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 10:35 AM
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No, I meant having them order a pre-modded C22 from you instead of telling them to buy a totally different center speaker like the BIC FH-6LCR. (Which btw, most Pioneer AJ owners who've tried were quite happy with despite the alleged "timbre (mis)match" issue.)
Thanks for the clarification. What are the main complaints about the stock C22?
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post #5690 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 11:34 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. What are the main complaints about the stock C22?
Abysmal voice clarity...usually described as "muffled dialogue." Tips from other forumites on speaker positioning and trying higher crossover settings didn't help much.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5691 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 11:40 AM
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Abysmal voice clarity...usually described as "muffled dialogue." Tips from other forumites on speaker positioning and trying higher crossover settings didn't help much.
I can second this. Had one for awhile in a second room. It was terrible.
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post #5692 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 12:22 PM
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I can second this. Had one for awhile in a second room. It was terrible.
Well, that just hasn't been my experience, and I've worked with dozens of them. I know for a fact that they measure better than the BS22's and way better than the towers. There must be a quality control issue that I've somehow not run into yet. Very strange.
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post #5693 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 12:39 PM
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Well, that just hasn't been my experience, and I've worked with dozens of them. I know for a fact that they measure better than the BS22's and way better than the towers. There must be a quality control issue that I've somehow not run into yet. Very strange.
Strange indeed. Anyway, would you be ok with possibly having a slew of orders for modded C22s, or would that be more trouble than it's worth if they're not buying any other speakers from you?

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #5694 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 12:58 PM
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Well, that just hasn't been my experience, and I've worked with dozens of them. I know for a fact that they measure better than the BS22's and way better than the towers. There must be a quality control issue that I've somehow not run into yet. Very strange.
Putting the center on your site would make it far easier for us to steer potential buyers in your direction as many are on here wanting an inexpensive center BUT want it relatively compact.

Your center sounds like a perfect solution.
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post #5695 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 01:41 PM
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While I have no experience with AJ center and only a brief experience with the BS22...I can confirm that there have been more than a few people who bought the AJ set that didn't like the center very much, based on complaints on AVS. However, the speaker set just isn't very sensitive, including the center, so I think that might be just one of those things were those movies that are a bit dialogue low, like Intrastellar, will be hard to listen to with that speaker set. I had to bump my EMP center up a couple dbs for that movie and I have done that before or since.
Dennis, sounds like your mods would improve clarity, but would they have any affect on sensitivity?

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post #5696 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
While I have no experience with AJ center and only a brief experience with the BS22...I can confirm that there have been more than a few people who bought the AJ set that didn't like the center very much, based on complaints on AVS. However, the speaker set just isn't very sensitive, including the center, so I think that might be just one of those things were those movies that are a bit dialogue low, like Intrastellar, will be hard to listen to with that speaker set. I had to bump my EMP center up a couple dbs for that movie and I have done that before or since.
Dennis, sounds like your mods would improve clarity, but would they have any affect on sensitivity?
My mod doesn't improve sensitivity. If anything, it lowers it. But doesn't everyone expect to balance their speakers during setup? I don't see why sensitivity should be an issue if you do setup correctly.
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post #5697 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 07:13 PM
 
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computer desktop speakers, will not be using a subwoofer.

still trying to decide between the AAs or jbl305s. jbls are on sale for $240 on amazon.

i have a lepai amp to drive the AAS.

so $250 for the AAS driven by lepai amp or the $240 jbl305 with amp included?

hard decision. i want to decide soon.
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post #5698 of 9159 Old 01-10-2017, 08:10 PM
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so $250 for the AAS driven by lepai amp or the $240 jbl305 with amp included?
If you like to blast music, I'd expect the JBLs to go louder than the AAs with the Lepai amp. Can't expect a lot from a $30 amp especially given the AAs' 84.5db sensitivity.
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post #5699 of 9159 Old 01-13-2017, 10:20 PM
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There is a lot of info about the Lepai amp on these here inter-webs! A common trick is to upgrade the power supply to a 12W 6A power supply, you can find them on Amazon for 8 bucks and up.

I thought I read somewhere that there was a new version of the Lepai 2020a+, just FYI.
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post #5700 of 9159 Old 01-14-2017, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
Right. As for the stock C22, I've never understood why there are apparently so many complaints about it.
I think there is a misunderstanding in regard to the C22, which I commented upon in another thread here.

It's not that the C22 is a bad speaker when compared to the BS22. It's simply that it's a bad center speaker (to some, anyway). Meaning if the BS22 was used as a center, it'd get the same (or more) complaints. I expect the same about the FS52 too.

They are warm, laid back sorts of speakers sound-wise. For HT use that equals somewhat muffled voices/lack of clarity. At least that is my opinion when I owned them... C22 simply was never super clear with voices. BS22 was probably worse.


I also agree with the others suggesting you put the center up for sale on your website. I think you'd get a lot of AJ people interested in it ... right now the main suggestions for them seem to be the $100 horn BIC or if they want to splurge, the ELAC center and hope it might match. At $125, yours would seem to make the most sense... timbre wouldn't match anymore, but we aren't talking about a horn vs warm mismatch.

Last edited by Doe Doe; 01-14-2017 at 01:46 AM.
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