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post #7351 of 9293 Old 11-25-2018, 08:01 AM
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My strongest endorsement for all generations of AAs from @Dennis Murphy . I owned them from up to AA+ and will be getting AA+ soon. They image like no other speakers I have heard regardless of price. They are never fatiguing and sound balanced to my ears. I have compared them to $2000 speakers and they can stand up to them on their own. They do like power and sound much much better with 250W per channel power amp than my Anthem 310 receiver. While I cannot afford BMRs I always wanted to hear them. I bought a used pair from a fellow audiophile a couple days ago and will try them for 2-3 weeks while credit card allows and will re-sell (I know, I know but 4 kids need to go to college ). Since AA+ will be my main speakers I will be able to compare AA+ with BMR in A/B.

Can't wait to hear BMRs.
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post #7352 of 9293 Old 11-25-2018, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dvzzz View Post
My strongest endorsement for all generations of AAs from @Dennis Murphy . I owned them from up to AA+ and will be getting AA+ soon. They image like no other speakers I have heard regardless of price. They are never fatiguing and sound balanced to my ears. I have compared them to $2000 speakers and they can stand up to them on their own. They do like power and sound much much better with 250W per channel power amp than my Anthem 310 receiver. While I cannot afford BMRs I always wanted to hear them. I bought a used pair from a fellow audiophile a couple days ago and will try them for 2-3 weeks while credit card allows and will re-sell (I know, I know but 4 kids need to go to college ). Since AA+ will be my main speakers I will be able to compare AA+ with BMR in A/B.

Can't wait to hear BMRs.
Thanks for the nice words. I'll be interested to get your impressions on the BMR's. What vintage are they? The big ones with the offset tweet and mid, or the more recent smaller ones with in-line drivers?
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post #7353 of 9293 Old 11-25-2018, 08:51 AM
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I am not quite sure. Attached is the picture. They have light maple-colored top/sides/back. I suspect they are recent gen. I think he bought big Philharmonics to replace BMRs.

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Thanks for the nice words. I'll be interested to get your impressions on the BMR's. What vintage are they? The big ones with the offset tweet and mid, or the more recent smaller ones with in-line drivers?
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post #7354 of 9293 Old 11-25-2018, 09:17 AM
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I am not quite sure. Attached is the picture. They have light maple-colored top/sides/back. I suspect they are recent gen. I think he bought big Philharmonics to replace BMRs.
i think those are a more recent vintage..

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post #7355 of 9293 Old 11-25-2018, 09:25 AM
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i think those are a more recent vintage..
Yup It must have been one of the first in-lines, because the maple cabinets haven't been available for some time.
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post #7356 of 9293 Old 11-25-2018, 03:43 PM
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Thinking about the AA+ to replace my current desktop speakers (Klipsch the Sixes), they're going to my son's room. My sense is that these will be a bit smoother and less fatiguing with less bass. Do I need to consider a small sub? Also, are 50 to 70 watt amps ok?

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Striper Mark View Post
Thinking about the AA+ to replace my current desktop speakers (Klipsch the Sixes), they're going to my son's room. My sense is that these will be a bit smoother and less fatiguing with less bass. Do I need to consider a small sub? Also, are 50 to 70 watt amps ok?

Thanks!
my guess is that everything you assume is correct , with the caveat that the aa's will have loads of bass for books... you shouldn't *need* a sub, but it certainly will help some..

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post #7358 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 10:09 AM
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Quick follow-up to my 11/21 post. I have since swapped my Monitor Audio Silver 10s back into the primary system, and I'm not looking back. Maybe it's the room size, maybe it's the positioning, maybe it's my ears...but the BMRs just didn't sound as good in that system, even with the sub added to the equation. If anything I love the Silver 10s more than ever now.


I do have a plan for a dedicated listening room and that's where the BMRs will go. For now they're going back to my secondary listening room.

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post #7359 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 11:00 AM
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Well, bad news on the AA+ front. Nothing fails like success. I've wiped out Madisound's supply of the Morel tweeters, and they aren't expecting any new stock until mid-January. So I can't provide the + version in a timely fashion. As an alternative, I can offer the predecessor AA for $210/pr plus shipping.
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post #7360 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
Well, bad news on the AA+ front. Nothing fails like success. I've wiped out Madisound's supply of the Morel tweeters, and they aren't expecting any new stock until mid-January. So I can't provide the + version in a timely fashion. As an alternative, I can offer the predecessor AA for $210/pr plus shipping.

Quick question. How do the AA’s (Not +) compare to the actual kit from Parts Express? The BR1 I believe it is?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #7361 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
Well, bad news on the AA+ front. Nothing fails like success. I've wiped out Madisound's supply of the Morel tweeters, and they aren't expecting any new stock until mid-January. So I can't provide the + version in a timely fashion. As an alternative, I can offer the predecessor AA for $210/pr plus shipping.
Hopefully, I can still get the 3 AA+ monitors based on my place in the queue.

I don't mind waiting a month or two for 2 more as surrounds.

Personally, I wouldn't want to get the older tweeter due to impatience. I want to do this once and right especially since I am coming from speakers at $500/pair.

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post #7362 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Quick question. How do the AA’s (Not +) compare to the actual kit from Parts Express? The BR1 I believe it is?
There's a big difference between the BR-1 kit and either version of the AA. The AA has much more lower treble, upper midrange detail than the BR-1. The main problem with the BR-1 is that the crossover doesn't suppress a large breakup mode in the woofer sufficiently. That output is out of phase with the lower tweeter response, and the result is cancellation and loss of detail. There is a much smaller difference between the previous AA and the AA+. Parts Express reverse engineered the Morel to get the Dayton tweeter (they look identical), and they did a good job. I just heard from Madisound, my tweeter supplier, and they're going overboard to help me out by tying to speed up the part of the Morel order that includes my tweeter, or getting some larger faceplates and retrofitting them on the tweeter version that uses a smaller face plate (but is otherwise identical). We'll see, but I certainly appreciate their efforts.

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Damn Dennis, you're turning into the Grinch who stole Audio Christmas!

J/K. You only have so much control. I'm sure many here appreciate your ongoing transparency.
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post #7364 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 04:37 PM
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So, I received a pair of AA+ monitors today. It was actually sitting at doorstep for a few hours since I never received the tracking information email for some odd reason and the delivery guy never rang the doorbell.

(Recently the delivery guys never ring the doorbell regardless of carrier.)

Anyhow, time to get to the fun part. I swapped out my SVS prime bookshelves for the AA+ pair as my main speakers. I am too tired to run YPAO so just listening to Spotify with the 2070 in pure direct mode.

Definitely have to crank the volume up roughly 3-5dB to get the same loudness as before but the 2070 has ample power.

SQ is very balanced and definitely not bright compared to the SVS. Still ample detail with the light and airy effect.

SS&I is awesome. More vertical and wider, but sound appears to be coming from closer to the front wall vs the SVS more in front of you.

Plenty of bass without a sub, but once I run YPAO I will use bass management for sure.

Will post more comprehensive impressions tomorrow.

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post #7365 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
There's a big difference between the BR-1 kit and either version of the AA. The AA has much more lower treble, upper midrange detail than the BR-1. The main problem with the BR-1 is that the crossover doesn't suppress a large breakup mode in the woofer sufficiently. That output is out of phase with the lower tweeter response, and the result is cancellation and loss of detail. There is a much smaller difference between the previous AA and the AA+. Parts Express reverse engineered the Morel to get the Dayton tweeter (they look identical), and they did a good job. I just heard from Madisound, my tweeter supplier, and they're going overboard to help me out by tying to speed up the part of the Morel order that includes my tweeter, or getting some larger faceplates and retrofitting them on the tweeter version that uses a smaller face plate (but is otherwise identical). We'll see, but I certainly appreciate their efforts.
Maybe you can get them to supply you with a inventory on those conversion faceplates and use some of the more common sized and less expensive quality tweeters you have mentioned. Just an idea in an effort to get you some more profit
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post #7366 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
There's a big difference between the BR-1 kit and either version of the AA. The AA has much more lower treble, upper midrange detail than the BR-1. The main problem with the BR-1 is that the crossover doesn't suppress a large breakup mode in the woofer sufficiently. That output is out of phase with the lower tweeter response, and the result is cancellation and loss of detail. There is a much smaller difference between the previous AA and the AA+. Parts Express reverse engineered the Morel to get the Dayton tweeter (they look identical), and they did a good job. I just heard from Madisound, my tweeter supplier, and they're going overboard to help me out by tying to speed up the part of the Morel order that includes my tweeter, or getting some larger faceplates and retrofitting them on the tweeter version that uses a smaller face plate (but is otherwise identical). We'll see, but I certainly appreciate their efforts.

Hehe any plans on a completely new speaker? Seems like maybe it might be time for a new speaker PVBB++? Philharmonic Value Buster Bookshelf ++? ~$500 speaker bracket to fight with AA 340’s and Chane 2.4’s?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #7367 of 9293 Old 11-27-2018, 09:49 PM
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Hehe any plans on a completely new speaker? Seems like maybe it might be time for a new speaker PVBB++? Philharmonic Value Buster Bookshelf ++? ~$500 speaker bracket to fight with AA 340’s and Chane 2.4’s?
No can do without reasonably priced and reasonably high quality cabinets. I don't think I could improve much on the basic sound of the AA+ it's more a question of achieving higher sensitivity and power handling.
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post #7368 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 06:07 AM
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Initial impressions on AA+ pair after running YPAO (PEQ bypassed except for MiniDSP 2x4 HD handling sub PEQ for my sealed Rythmik L12 sub). Using a global 100Hz crossover in the Yamaha 2070 AVR with Cambridge S20s as surrounds and SVS prime center disabled (still waiting to receive one more AA+ as center)... so currently running in 4.1ch.

With Spotify premium streaming to 2070 directly via WiFi (very high streaming quality setting) and Dolby Surround upmixer with center spead off...

I found I needed to turn up MV by 6.5dB to get same SPL as the prime bookshelves these AA+ replaced (based on YPAO set levels).

Now to the good part, these speakers aren't bright like the primes at all and if memory serves right can provide a much better phantom center effect, at least with 2ch music upmixed to 4.1ch. Likely because the SS&I on these is much more impressive.

Also, the bass is more capable and a closer match to my sealed Rythmik sub in terms clean, precise bass with great transient response overall.

So, a more balanced and refined speaker with a bigger, more powerful sound that I can handle listening to at higher levels than before without sounding harsh/fatiguing. (Though I need to do a lot more listening to verify this for longer listening sessions/louder levels.)

I am not losing the good qualities of the primes, rather the bad ones while improving on the primes strengths.

In short, the AA+s sound great right out of the gate whereas the primes took some getting used to coming from Sony SS-CS5s bookshelves and matching SS-CS8 center.

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post #7369 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 10:21 AM
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Now to the good part, these speakers aren't bright like the primes at all and if memory serves right can provide a much better phantom center effect, at least with 2ch music upmixed to 4.1ch. Likely because the SS&I on these is much more impressive.
And they cost what, $200 less for a pair than the SVS Primes?

Killer deal!
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Now to the good part, these speakers aren't bright like the primes at all and if memory serves right can provide a much better phantom center effect, at least with 2ch music upmixed to 4.1ch. Likely because the SS&I on these is much more impressive.
And they cost what, $200 less for a pair than the SVS Primes?

Killer deal!
Yeah, it seemed those who liked the SVS speakers ended up with the Ultras to solve the problems with the Primes. However, I couldn't justify that kind of money to fix a problem that less expensive speakers than the Primes don't have.

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post #7371 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 12:05 PM
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I sent an email to Dennis also, but found this thread and thought someone here might be able to answer my question also. I'm in the process of finishing a room in the basement to be a used for 80%HT and 20% music. The space and WAF dictates that the speakers will need to be placed very close to the wall though. Which speakers at Philharmonic Audio would worth best with this in mind?
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I sent an email to Dennis also, but found this thread and thought someone here might be able to answer my question also. I'm in the process of finishing a room in the basement to be a used for 80%HT and 20% music. The space and WAF dictates that the speakers will need to be placed very close to the wall though. Which speakers at Philharmonic Audio would worth best with this in mind?
what Dennis said below
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post #7373 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 12:15 PM
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I sent an email to Dennis also, but found this thread and thought someone here might be able to answer my question also. I'm in the process of finishing a room in the basement to be a used for 80%HT and 20% music. The space and WAF dictates that the speakers will need to be placed very close to the wall though. Which speakers at Philharmonic Audio would worth best with this in mind?
I think the short answer may be none. Although I do have sealed versions of the New Philharmonitor and Mini Monitor, Parts Express has discontinued the cabinets and I'm not sure there are any left. The BMR or Affordable Accuracy will work if you can get them out 6" from the wall and not real close to a corner.
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post #7374 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 02:31 PM
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I think the short answer may be none. Although I do have sealed versions of the New Philharmonitor and Mini Monitor, Parts Express has discontinued the cabinets and I'm not sure there are any left. The BMR or Affordable Accuracy will work if you can get them out 6" from the wall and not real close to a corner.
Thanks, I might be able to work with 6" from the wall and would be around 2 feet from a corner, I'll have to measure to be sure though. If not, I guess my search continues.
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post #7375 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 03:17 PM
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I think the short answer may be none. Although I do have sealed versions of the New Philharmonitor and Mini Monitor, Parts Express has discontinued the cabinets and I'm not sure there are any left. The BMR or Affordable Accuracy will work if you can get them out 6" from the wall and not real close to a corner.

The Phil 3?

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post #7376 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 03:39 PM
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The Phil 3?
Hi Mudslide. Well, the 3's would work, although they're obviously expensive and take over 5 months to build.
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post #7377 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 04:07 PM
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Thanks, I might be able to work with 6" from the wall and would be around 2 feet from a corner, I'll have to measure to be sure though. If not, I guess my search continues.
The best kind of speaker to put on a wall is one that was designed to be on the wall (different crossover especially), or one that is flush with the face of the wall (in-wall). The latter is usually better - because then there is no distance from the back of the drivers to the wall to create any phase cancellations and the whole surface of the wall can act as a coherent waveguide without any interference. There are probably some trade-offs but you'll have to do your research on that. Good luck on your search.
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post #7378 of 9293 Old 11-28-2018, 06:00 PM
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The best kind of speaker to put on a wall is one that was designed to be on the wall (different crossover especially), or one that is flush with the face of the wall (in-wall). The latter is usually better - because then there is no distance from the back of the drivers to the wall to create any phase cancellations and the whole surface of the wall can act as a coherent waveguide without any interference. There are probably some trade-offs but you'll have to do your research on that. Good luck on your search.
Thanks, I'll look for something that was designed from the start with that in mind. I don't have any drywall up yet so doing in-wall speakers wouldn't be a problem. Might look at something from the HTM line from DIYGroup also since my main use with be HT.
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post #7379 of 9293 Old 11-29-2018, 08:26 AM
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What about the BMRs with the Salk-built front ported cabinets?

Philharmonic BMR Philharmonitor | Rythmik F12G | Parasound Halo P6 | PS Audio Stellar M700 | Oppo BDP-103
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post #7380 of 9293 Old 11-29-2018, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
What about the BMRs with the Salk-built front ported cabinets?
Nice but weather it's front or rear ports it does not affect how close you should have it to the wall (over 2-3" because of the air coming out of the port).
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