Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 272 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8131 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
You have a beautiful setup. All should aspire to have something similar. I sure do.

Have you ever taken retail speakers home just to crush them with your Phil3’s? That would seem like lots of fun. Smirking at brands like B&W and ML has always been an enjoyable pastime for me
Maybe, someday, when I am retired and/or win the lottery!

I would really love to compare my Phil 3's to a B&W 801 or similar.

It took me a while to get my setup in order, plus I had some Hurricane Harvey Damage that I needed to get fixed inside my house. My speakers were delivered in Dec 2016, and I am just now to the point where I can post pictures. Cable Management for 11 speakers is a "nightmare"!

I had to re-build my fireplace (due to structural damage), and in the process, I removed the hearth and mantle (sad to do, but it had to be done), and also, before the re-model, I completely hid the fireplace with my TV and Home Theater equipment. Now I have a beautiful fireplace AND an awesome HT setup! (BTW, that fireplace will NEVER see another real wood log, as much as I like the smell, I will be getting some fireplace glass, and it will be "natural gas" fireplace only from now on!)

Something cool that I did, was that I installed "T-NUTS" in the back of my fireplace for the TV and Speaker bracket, since I had to remove all the existing red brick, and re-do the fireplace structure. So now, instead of a wood LAG Bolts, I can use a machine bolt. the TV takes 5/16 and the speaker takes a 1/4 bolt. I could not find any locally, so I ordered "Grade 8" bolts to use, that center channel is pretty heavy! So, removing and installing a new mount, should I ever want to do that, is easy, and I don't have to worry about wearing out the drill holes, or drilling new holes.

The "Componet Rack" was surprisingly hard to find. It is a "VTI 5 Shelf Audio Rack with Glass Shelves AGR405S (Silver Poles)" that I ordered from StandsandMounts.com. I highly recommend them! They were able to modify the existing kit at the factory to include two of the largest hight shelves (at the bottom) for the two huge amplifiers, so there is plenty of air circulation. I also like the open back, so it is easy to get to all the cables.

I highly recommend StandsandMounts.com. They were awesome to work with!

I also ordered cables as close to the exact length I needed them, to minimize the "Medusa" nest of cables in the back.

Speaking of cables, I have all XLR Cables from the Yamaha to the amps, and 12 AVG Monoprice speaker cables.
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post #8132 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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Just curious. Have you tried the foam pieces on the raals? I had them in a baggy and just added. I like the sound better. More focused.

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post #8133 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
Just curious. Have you tried the foam pieces on the raals? I had them in a baggy and just added. I like the sound better. More focused.

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I thought those were for protection LOL

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8134 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
Just curious. Have you tried the foam pieces on the raals? I had them in a baggy and just added. I like the sound better. More focused.

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Which RAAL tweeters do you have?

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post #8135 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 01:57 PM
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Phil3 70-10D amorphous.

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post #8136 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
Phil3 70-10D amorphous.

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If Dennis optimized the crossover without the foam pads the response will be quite different above 5K when adding them.

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post #8137 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 06:51 PM
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Good question... I'll look over my emails with Dennis.

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post #8138 of 9285 Old 03-19-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
If Dennis optimized the crossover without the foam pads the response will be quite different above 5K when adding them.
I am sure everyone here knows what you are talking about but anyway . . .
With Foam





Without
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post #8139 of 9285 Old 03-20-2019, 09:04 AM
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Not all of the RAAL tweeters are meant to use foam pads like that, right? Because I don't remember my BMRs coming with any foam pads.

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post #8140 of 9285 Old 03-20-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
Not all of the RAAL tweeters are meant to use foam pads like that, right? Because I don't remember my BMRs coming with any foam pads.

Correct, the tweeter in the BMR is a variant of the 64-10 tweeter developed for the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 and is not designed to use foam pads.
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post #8141 of 9285 Old 03-20-2019, 11:25 AM
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What does the ascend acoustic part have to do with anything? Here is what the RAAL website says:
FOAM DEFLECTOR PADS: Wide angle polar response is of great importance for the natural reproduction, therefore using the larger ribbon drivers bares a problem, since they are showing very intensive “beaming?of high frequencies, as they are line sources far bigger than the wavelengths of high frequencies in audible range. For model 140-15D, we found the solution for that problem in using the specially shaped foam pads in front of the ribbon. The dispersion pads are working as an acoustic lens, by slowing down the velocity of sound and thus shaping the sound wave front from cylindrical to spherical. The parasitic effect of partial sound absorption is inevitable, but acceptable. The pads are magnetic and they can slide on the front plate. By adjusting the distance between the pads, sliding them toward or apart each other, it is possible to shape the on-axis linearity vs. wide angle vertical polar response. In this way anyone can adjust the high frequency output by his-hers own liking. If the pads are
completely removed, 15 kHz on-axis response is increased in level of about 7 dB.

Last edited by Brian Boro; 03-20-2019 at 11:49 AM. Reason: More info
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post #8142 of 9285 Old 03-20-2019, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
Not all of the RAAL tweeters are meant to use foam pads like that, right? Because I don't remember my BMRs coming with any foam pads.
The BMR / Sierra 2 tweeters have a shorter ribbon (64mm) and don't use the foam pads. The same is true for the 70-20XR and the similar unit used in the Sierra towers (though both have a longer 70mm ribbon). The 70-10D (Philharmonic 3 and many of mine own designs) can be used either way but if the pads are omitted the crossover has to be modified in order for the tweeter to have a flat response.
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post #8143 of 9285 Old 03-20-2019, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boro View Post
What does the ascend acoustic part have to do with anything? Here is what the RAAL website says:
FOAM DEFLECTOR PADS: Wide angle polar response is of great importance for the natural reproduction, therefore using the larger ribbon drivers bares a problem, since they are showing very intensive “beaming?of high frequencies, as they are line sources far bigger than the wavelengths of high frequencies in audible range. For model 140-15D, we found the solution for that problem in using the specially shaped foam pads in front of the ribbon. The dispersion pads are working as an acoustic lens, by slowing down the velocity of sound and thus shaping the sound wave front from cylindrical to spherical. The parasitic effect of partial sound absorption is inevitable, but acceptable. The pads are magnetic and they can slide on the front plate. By adjusting the distance between the pads, sliding them toward or apart each other, it is possible to shape the on-axis linearity vs. wide angle vertical polar response. In this way anyone can adjust the high frequency output by his-hers own liking. If the pads are
completely removed, 15 kHz on-axis response is increased in level of about 7 dB.
Here's a response curve without the foam pads.
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post #8144 of 9285 Old 03-20-2019, 02:15 PM
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Brian and Rick, thanks...not knowing, I would have assumed that those were for shipping/protection only, as the Phil-BMR that Dennis shipped came with a cardboard protector for the RAAL ribbon.

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post #8145 of 9285 Old 03-21-2019, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
I again tried my New Phils straight ahead and then with a slight toe-in (maybe about 6 degrees) and I from my listening position about 6 feet away find that the soundstage is more seamless - not coming "directly" from the speaker, usually listening at about 65-75 db.

No one else in nearfield listening find this to be true either?
I don't think 10 feet qualifies as nearfield, but the Phil 3 aren't for nearfield, I think. I recently tried slight toe-in, coming from straight ahead (not direct), which is what Dennis has often suggested. I find that in my listening space this helps to give the central image a little more focus.
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post #8146 of 9285 Old 03-21-2019, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mervinb View Post
I don't think 10 feet qualifies as nearfield, but the Phil 3 aren't for nearfield, I think. I recently tried slight toe-in, coming from straight ahead (not direct), which is what Dennis has often suggested. I find that in my listening space this helps to give the central image a little more focus.
yes, most 4 foot tall speakers or greater aren't going to fit the definition of nearfield!

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post #8147 of 9285 Old 03-21-2019, 09:19 PM
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Since we are on the topic of $1-2k speakers, does anyone have experience with Linkwitz LXminis? It looks like a fun DIY project and could be great sound for relatively little money.

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post #8148 of 9285 Old 03-21-2019, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Since we are on the topic of $1-2k speakers, does anyone have experience with Linkwitz LXminis? It looks like a fun DIY project and could be great sound for relatively little money.

No experience with any DYI speakers, I have maintained them, and I am in the process of rebuilding an old pair of "Polk 5jr+" speakers, but here is a speaker design that interests me:


One day, when am retired, or win the lottery, or have a lot of free time, and have no other pending projects, I would like to try my hand at building a speaker, the one I would like to try to build is this one:
Jim Holtz's Statement Monitor

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements_Monitor.html

Dennis uses both the Tang Band W4-1337SA,and the Fountek NeoCd3.0 ribbon in some of his speakers.

You can get this in a kit form:
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/mi...ones-kit-pair/

but wow, look at the price, and no cabinets, it emphasizes the value of Dennis's offerings!
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post #8149 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
No experience with any DYI speakers, I have maintained them, and I am in the process of rebuilding an old pair of "Polk 5jr+" speakers, but here is a speaker design that interests me:


One day, when am retired, or win the lottery, or have a lot of free time, and have no other pending projects, I would like to try my hand at building a speaker, the one I would like to try to build is this one:
Jim Holtz's Statement Monitor

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements_Monitor.html

Dennis uses both the Tang Band W4-1337SA,and the Fountek NeoCd3.0 ribbon in some of his speakers.

You can get this in a kit form:
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/mi...ones-kit-pair/

but wow, look at the price, and no cabinets, it emphasizes the value of Dennis's offerings!
That meniscus audio one is interesting because no matter what options you put in - built or just the kit - the price is exactly the same!
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post #8150 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 09:21 AM
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Are the Fountek ribbons any good, though? I've heard from a couple of sources that they are more fragile. Unsure about sound quality.

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post #8151 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Are the Fountek ribbons any good, though? I've heard from a couple of sources that they are more fragile. Unsure about sound quality.
Don't know about fragility, but I would assume Dennis wouldn't ever have used it if the sound quality wasn't up to snuff for his purposes.
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Are the Fountek ribbons any good, though? I've heard from a couple of sources that they are more fragile. Unsure about sound quality.

I wouldn’t plan on dropping any $100 tweeters anytime soon!

Or worse, an $800 Center
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8153 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 09:42 AM
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Are the Fountek ribbons any good, though? I've heard from a couple of sources that they are more fragile. Unsure about sound quality.
I owned the first Philharmonitor (before it became the New) - truth is, I actually prefer it over the RAAL! My biggest audio regret was getting rid of the pair.

I'd like to get another speaker with the Fountek tweeter.
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post #8154 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
No experience with any DYI speakers, I have maintained them, and I am in the process of rebuilding an old pair of "Polk 5jr+" speakers, but here is a speaker design that interests me:


One day, when am retired, or win the lottery, or have a lot of free time, and have no other pending projects, I would like to try my hand at building a speaker, the one I would like to try to build is this one:
Jim Holtz's Statement Monitor

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements_Monitor.html

Dennis uses both the Tang Band W4-1337SA,and the Fountek NeoCd3.0 ribbon in some of his speakers.

You can get this in a kit form:
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/mi...ones-kit-pair/

but wow, look at the price, and no cabinets, it emphasizes the value of Dennis's offerings!
You may want to look at the Finalists also. I believe they are considered an upgrade to the Statement Monitors. One thing to keep in mind with these designs is that to get optimal performance they need to be pretty far off from the back wall due to the open mid. I helped build a pair of the Statements a few years ago and will say there were very impressive for the cost.

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Finalists_1.html
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post #8155 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 11:08 AM
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I think the 20mm RAAL is better, no doubt...I would bet the 64-10 is very similar to the Fountek tweeter.

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post #8156 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Since we are on the topic of $1-2k speakers, does anyone have experience with Linkwitz LXminis? It looks like a fun DIY project and could be great sound for relatively little money.
I'll probably get killed by Linkwitz fans that come across this, but I built the LX Minis and they are possibly my least favorite speaker that I have ever owned. I found them to be extremely bright and thin sounding. I played with positioning, amps, even the jumpers within the miniDSP but could never get them to where I thought they sounded good. They have a lot of rave reviews so I guess it's possible I did something wrong, but I don't think so. I didn't build the subs, so perhaps they would have helped balance things out.

I'll also add once you add the miniDSP and materials, it's not really that cheap either...especially if you don't have a multi-channel amp lying around. I built them because I had already built several traditional speakers and wanted to try something else. If you are new to DIY, I'd recommend you try one of the kits from DIYSG, CSS, GR-Research, etc. first.
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post #8157 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RMW1982 View Post
I'll probably get killed by Linkwitz fans that come across this, but I built the LX Minis and they are possibly my least favorite speaker that I have ever owned. I found them to be extremely bright and thin sounding. I played with positioning, amps, even the jumpers within the miniDSP but could never get them to where I thought they sounded good. They have a lot of rave reviews so I guess it's possible I did something wrong, but I don't think so. I didn't build the subs, so perhaps they would have helped balance things out.

I'll also add once you add the miniDSP and materials, it's not really that cheap either...especially if you don't have a multi-channel amp lying around. I built them because I had already built several traditional speakers and wanted to try something else. If you are new to DIY, I'd recommend you try one of the kits from DIYSG, CSS, GR-Research, etc. first.
Thanks for your thoughts. Very different from others I've found: https://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ce-review.html

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post #8158 of 9285 Old 03-22-2019, 07:15 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts. Very different from others I've found: https://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ce-review.html
Yup, I read most, if not all of them...which is why I too am surprised I do not like them. There are a handful that echoed my sentiments, but they are few and far between. If you check out their thread on DIY Audio, there are a few well-known DIYers that were skeptical of the design, but again they were in the minority. I may play with them again at some point and take some measurements to see if I can if anything is amiss, but probably not any time soon.

I will say on the plus side, they are probably the easiest DIY speakers to finish and assemble you will come across...aside from maybe something like the Satori Ara from Madisound. They are also very easy to move around and position, which is a convenient feature.
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post #8159 of 9285 Old 03-23-2019, 08:48 AM
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Sacrilege,but I'm considering selling as new phil3. Cabinet grade finish. Amorphous raals. Walnut front birds maple everywhere else.
Cash and carry in austin, TX. 3200...

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post #8160 of 9285 Old 03-23-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek View Post
Sacrilege,but I'm considering selling as new phil3. Cabinet grade finish. Amorphous raals. Walnut front birds maple everywhere else.
Cash and carry in austin, TX. 3200...
For every celebrated and coveted speaker, there is an owner who is tired of it or simply wants to explore a different green speaker pasture.
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