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post #8431 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Okay, shifting gears to this new Maggie LSR
1. Looks like it is not yet available? True?
2. Two way speaker, not sure the driver topology other than the planar. I guess I don't understand how a 1 inch "cabinet" can get to 50 hz, but I assume it has to do with length/height of the speaker.
3. sounds like 4 ohm, so maybe will need amplification above a budget AV-R


And getting to the Berylium tweeter, I know Focal is known for them, but other speakers that have this excellent material in their tweeters? I would have sworn that RBH used them in some high end tweeters, but I think I am wrong...
The LRS is currently "available", but back ordered the demand has been so high. I believe the wait is 3 to 4 weeks. Not sure of it's topology, but Magnepan terms it a "full range quasi ribbon". An explanation of planar technology is offered at https://www.magnepan.com/magneplanar_technology

And Magnepan is quite up front that they will sound "better" with better amplification - high current capacity amps (that double, or come close to doubling, their output from 8ohms to 4ohms). Maggies do love power, and can soak up a lot of it, but when you think about it the LRS rated sensitivity is 86 db. The BMR is rated at 85 db. I can attest they can soak up power just as well. But I agree, while the LRS might be a "budget" speaker, you can't really use budget amplification to get the most out of them (as Magnepan itself states).

Focal, Salk, Totem, and Revel all have models with Beryllium tweeters. Not sure who else might.

Display: Vizio P55-E1l Pre-pro: Marantz 7703; Amps: Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 1, H/K AVR 520 (direct in to amps); Sources: Sony UBP-X700; X-box 1 S; Technics 1200 Mk II; Win10 PC for digital; Phono Preamp: Emotiva XPS-1; Speakers - LR: Philharmonic BMR LR, Center: Emotiva Airmotiv C2; Surrounds: Wharfedale Reva-2; Rear Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 220; Atmos: TF - Monoprice Alpha 8; TR - BIC VI-38; Subwoofers: dual Rythmik L22s
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post #8432 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Okay, shifting gears to this new Maggie LSR

1. Looks like it is not yet available? True?

2. Two way speaker, not sure the driver topology other than the planar. I guess I don't understand how a 1 inch "cabinet" can get to 50 hz, but I assume it has to do with length/height of the speaker.

3. sounds like 4 ohm, so maybe will need amplification above a budget AV-R





And getting to the Berylium tweeter, I know Focal is known for them, but other speakers that have this excellent material in their tweeters? I would have sworn that RBH used them in some high end tweeters, but I think I am wrong...

Revel.

Ascend? No they did a diamond tweeter.

Certain JBL Cinema speakers used Beryllium compression drivers no?

Assorted ID’s.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8433 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
And getting to the Berylium tweeter, I know Focal is known for them, but other speakers that have this excellent material in their tweeters? I would have sworn that RBH used them in some high end tweeters, but I think I am wrong...
If you like the sound of Dennis' speakers, Revel 228Be and Revel Ultima2 series. Maybe Salk' SS 8 BE might be worth a shot as well, but I have no experience with Salk. Only the Revels.
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post #8434 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 06:21 PM
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Paradigm Persona series have Be tweeters and midrange.
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post #8435 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 07:39 PM
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Off the top of my head: Salk Song3 BeAT, Revel PerformaBe and Ultima2 lines, Reaction Audio, Periodic Audio
Also the Salk Song3 Encore, SS8Be, and the SS9.5
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post #8436 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 07:41 PM
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...The cost of manufacturing of course varies where the company is located. Ascend happens to be in an expensive region and their products are very affordable considering the location. Jim Salk made a wise move by locating in an old industrial building located in a highly depressed economic region. Such an area would have low overhead compared to many other places in the USA.
Indeed, the costs of running a business in SoCal is expensive, and getting worse year after year. However, there are reasons why so many large speaker companies are headquartered here. In our case, and I have run extensive analysis on this - it makes financial sense for us to stay put.

I'll explain why, and it is basically the same reasons why so many large speaker companies are headquartered here.

In order to take full advantage of economies of scale, we purchase our components in large volumes directly from the manufacturer of that component. This way, we get the best possible prices by taking full advantage of volume purchases. This complicates the logistics of getting the goods to us, such that we often receive container load shipments or LCL shipments via sea freight or air freight. We are located very close to the major port on the West Coast, as well as an international airport. This greatly reduces the cost of delivering the goods to us, thus our fixed expenses are higher but our component costs are lower. Add to this that our domestic cabinet maker is somewhat local to us - it averages out such that our savings in landed component costs due to our location is greater than having lower overhead costs if we were located elsewhere.

That said, it fully depends on the business model. For companies that do not keep large inventories and purchase components from a retailer (parts express, madisound etc.) - it absolutely makes sense to be located in more business friendly areas.

San Clemente has worked out well for us, we have a nice location and we do quite a bit of local sales -- plus, and this is most important, my daily commute is only about 3 miles, which means more time spent at work and less time driving.

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post #8437 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 07:57 PM
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San Clemente has worked out well for us, we have a nice location and we do quite a bit of local sales...
Plus you're close to Trestles and San Onofre. Surf's up!
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post #8438 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 09:03 PM
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...... which means more time spent at work and less time driving.
Shouldn't that be...more time at home?😀
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So I’ve been staying quiet about it, but now that Dennis has said they are all spoken for, I thought I’d share that I should be getting one of those last sets of the BMRs.....at least that was what I was told over email. All the other speakers I’ve owned have been of the $500 and under category, so its kinda scary making the jump. And I’m worried the wife will flip the #*$& out...but what the hell. Right?

It sounds like it may be a few weeks before they go out, so its kind of like a dream at the moment. When that time does come though, what stands would you guys recommend? These speakers look to be quite large and from what I am reading are 32 lbs a piece. I wasn’t planning on spending this much money on speakers yet, but I thought it might be the last chance at the time. Therefore I won’t be able to add any extra amp power either.

Anyways, as long as I wasn’t really dreaming, I should have a set of BMRs in the next month or so. And hopefully I can end my journey down the rabbit hole!
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post #8440 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by D33vious View Post
So I’ve been staying quiet about it, but now that Dennis has said they are all spoken for, I thought I’d share that I should be getting one of those last sets of the BMRs.....at least that was what I was told over email. All the other speakers I’ve owned have been of the $500 and under category, so its kinda scary making the jump. And I’m worried the wife will flip the #*$& out...but what the hell. Right?



It sounds like it may be a few weeks before they go out, so its kind of like a dream at the moment. When that time does come though, what stands would you guys recommend? These speakers look to be quite large and from what I am reading are 32 lbs a piece. I wasn’t planning on spending this much money on speakers yet, but I thought it might be the last chance at the time. Therefore I won’t be able to add any extra amp power either.



Anyways, as long as I wasn’t really dreaming, I should have a set of BMRs in the next month or so. And hopefully I can end my journey down the rabbit hole!


Congrats! Just the kind of post I was hoping for.



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post #8441 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 09:58 PM
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So I’ve been staying quiet about it, but now that Dennis has said they are all spoken for, I thought I’d share that I should be getting one of those last sets of the BMRs.....at least that was what I was told over email. All the other speakers I’ve owned have been of the $500 and under category, so its kinda scary making the jump. And I’m worried the wife will flip the #*$& out...but what the hell. Right?

It sounds like it may be a few weeks before they go out, so its kind of like a dream at the moment. When that time does come though, what stands would you guys recommend? These speakers look to be quite large and from what I am reading are 32 lbs a piece. I wasn’t planning on spending this much money on speakers yet, but I thought it might be the last chance at the time. Therefore I won’t be able to add any extra amp power either.

Anyways, as long as I wasn’t really dreaming, I should have a set of BMRs in the next month or so. And hopefully I can end my journey down the rabbit hole!
You'll be really glad you did. There are very, very few speakers in the under $2k range that can keep up with that design. And that will probably be true for a long time.

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post #8442 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 10:04 PM
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Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy

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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
There are very, very few speakers in the under $2k range that can keep up with that design.

Ooooh. Now that’s a good discussion topic.

As of now, are the BMR’s an under 2k speaker...?

From what we’ve seen, they were grossly underpriced and definitely not a $1350 speaker. So what category does this fine speaker now fall under?

I believe it now falls under the “Under 3k” category now. Even factoring out Salk cabinets, these are a $2200 speaker, no? This could be a game changer really. They now have to play with a whole lot more players in the under 3k section. This also plays to the tune that they lost their mind blowing value which was indeed a huge selling point to many, but *not* the only selling point, keep in mind....
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8443 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 10:17 PM
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Anyways, as long as I wasn’t really dreaming, I should have a set of BMRs in the next month or so. And hopefully I can end my journey down the rabbit hole!
Really happy for you. Enjoy and break-in those BMRs with your current gear, then down the road when funds allow, you can always upgrade your amplification.

Goodbye speaker rabbit hole, hello amp rabbit hole!!! (We might as well admit, the journey never truly ends...)
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post #8444 of 9096 Old 04-23-2019, 10:38 PM
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Ooooh. Now that’s a good discussion topic.

<snip>

I believe it now falls under the “Under 3k” category now. Even factoring out Salk cabinets, these are a $2200 speaker, no?
Good point. I ask this in all sincerity and not directed at you Russ, but to the class:

At $2200, what else competes with a 32lb, 3-way, 7-inch Scanspeak, Raal tweeter-based design?

I can think of some 2-ways from the usual suspects (Revel, Dynaudio, Focal, etc.) in that range. Kef has a $2k 3-way coaxial. Selah has the Filharmonica and Ascend has the Sierra-2 tower.

What else is out there?

IMO, the BMR has simply gone from "the best" value in modern-day audio, to "one of" the best values in modern audio. That is still nothing to sneeze at and makes the shuttering of Philharmonic Audio an era-ending event.

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Last edited by l0nestar8; 04-23-2019 at 10:44 PM.
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post #8445 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by D33vious View Post
So I’ve been staying quiet about it, but now that Dennis has said they are all spoken for, I thought I’d share that I should be getting one of those last sets of the BMRs.....at least that was what I was told over email. All the other speakers I’ve owned have been of the $500 and under category, so its kinda scary making the jump. And I’m worried the wife will flip the #*$& out...but what the hell. Right?

It sounds like it may be a few weeks before they go out, so its kind of like a dream at the moment. When that time does come though, what stands would you guys recommend? These speakers look to be quite large and from what I am reading are 32 lbs a piece. I wasn’t planning on spending this much money on speakers yet, but I thought it might be the last chance at the time. Therefore I won’t be able to add any extra amp power either.

Anyways, as long as I wasn’t really dreaming, I should have a set of BMRs in the next month or so. And hopefully I can end my journey down the rabbit hole!
Welcome to the Family!


I'm happy with my VTI stands... I have the RF series for my fronts right now... soon to be surrounds when I officially join the Phil 3 club. There are other stands... consider height to tweeter plus floor spikes if you use them. I sit very upright and my ears are ~49" high. I also have monitor pads between the stand and the speaker. Sanus has some good stands too, but make certain about the weight the stand supports! The VTI stands are "rated for 100#" each. I don't like that for a 36" tall stand, but 32# ea is cool. Two of the three posts can be filled with sand (Kiln Dried is very important, wear a good dust mask!... the added weight helps with stability, as well as deadens any ringing from the steel, when I run my cable through the third post, I'm going to fill that with oven-dried gravel).


Quite frankly: I think you'll be stunned.


And if you do decide to go after amps: I love my Outlaw 2200s with the BMRs. Keep your eyes open: memorial day sale is prossibly right around the corner. (I bought my subs during Black Friday sale last year, then Amps at the Christmas/NY sale. )



Cheers!!!
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post #8446 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Ooooh. Now that’s a good discussion topic.

As of now, are the BMR’s an under 2k speaker...?

From what we’ve seen, they were grossly underpriced and definitely not a $1350 speaker. So what category does this fine speaker now fall under?

I believe it now falls under the “Under 3k” category now. Even factoring out Salk cabinets, these are a $2200 speaker, no? This could be a game changer really. They now have to play with a whole lot more players in the under 3k section. This also plays to the tune that they lost their mind blowing value which was indeed a huge selling point to many, but *not* the only selling point, keep in mind....
I've said it before: I will say it again.
At $2500 a pair, the Monitor Audio Silver 500 is not as good, and this is what I would have bought just short of auditioning at Ascend. (And by most reviews I read comparing the two, it could be surmised that Wharfedale Diamond series is not equal to the BMRs as they consistenly rated just below the MA Silvers... perhaps at the top of the Reva Line? Jade Line?"
Martin Logan Motion 60XT, almost $3000 a pair? No (I preferred MA Silver to these).
B&W 600 series. No. (Based on what I've heard many others owners say about the 700 Series: also No.)
KEF Q950, $1800 per pair. No. KEF R900 (currently $3000 per pair), maybe, but not for me. KEF R11, $5000 per pair: still, no... didn't sound as good as the R900 audition... different store, but overall, KEF triggered fatigue in my ears.)


What will deliver in Frequency Response, Accuracy, and Neutral SQ? What's the price cut off per pair: 3K, fully built, no kits???


Lets go!

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post #8447 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 02:08 AM
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Really happy for you. Enjoy and break-in those BMRs with your current gear, then down the road when funds allow, you can always upgrade your amplification.

Goodbye speaker rabbit hole, hello amp rabbit hole!!! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] (We might as well admit, the journey never truly ends...)
Fortunately, that particular hole is very shallow. Unless you're intentionally going for colored sound. Then you can dig a hole to China.

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post #8448 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
There are very, very few speakers in the under $2k range that can keep up with that design.

Ooooh. Now that’s a good discussion topic.

As of now, are the BMR’s an under 2k speaker...?

From what we’ve seen, they were grossly underpriced and definitely not a $1350 speaker. So what category does this fine speaker now fall under?

I believe it now falls under the “Under 3k” category now. Even factoring out Salk cabinets, these are a $2200 speaker, no? This could be a game changer really. They now have to play with a whole lot more players in the under 3k section. This also plays to the tune that they lost their mind blowing value which was indeed a huge selling point to many, but *not* the only selling point, keep in mind....
Of course - but he bought one of the remaining stock from Dennis. So, that is what he paid. He could have made different choices with that money. For that money, it's going to be hard to beat.
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
I've said it before: I will say it again.
At $2500 a pair, the Monitor Audio Silver 500 is not as good, and this is what I would have bought just short of auditioning at Ascend. (And by most reviews I read comparing the two, it could be surmised that Wharfedale Diamond series is not equal to the BMRs as they consistenly rated just below the MA Silvers... perhaps at the top of the Reva Line? Jade Line?"
Martin Logan Motion 60XT, almost $3000 a pair? No (I preferred MA Silver to these).
B&W 600 series. No. (Based on what I've heard many others owners say about the 700 Series: also No.)
KEF Q950, $1800 per pair. No. KEF R900 (currently $3000 per pair), maybe, but not for me. KEF R11, $5000 per pair: still, no... didn't sound as good as the R900 audition... different store, but overall, KEF triggered fatigue in my ears.)


What will deliver in Frequency Response, Accuracy, and Neutral SQ? What's the price cut off per pair: 3K, fully built, no kits???


Lets go!

Ascend Sierra Towers (w or w/o Raal)
Ascend S2s
Revel M106’s
Revel F36’s
Selah Vigore
Kef R3
Salk SongTower RT
Focal Aria 906

More to come, a bit busy.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8450 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Ascend Sierra Towers (w or w/o Raal)
Ascend S2s
Revel M106’s
Revel F36’s
Selah Vigore
Kef R3
Salk SongTower RT
Focal Aria 906

More to come, a bit busy.
How about the ELAC Adante As-61?
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Glad to know that Dennis is doing well. I was really considering this last year for a dedicated 2ch setup. When I was ready to make a purchase, I was too late already.



I considered the Buchardt S400 but I went with a Klipsch Forte III as it was a killer deal for 2k usd for brand new pair and paired it with a tube amp.



I liked the dynamics overall and really can't complain compared to my Emotiva T1 from my HT setup.


I guess when I upgrade my T1s probably I will go to MA Golds.
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post #8452 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 09:50 AM
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The LRS is currently "available", but back ordered the demand has been so high. I believe the wait is 3 to 4 weeks. Not sure of it's topology, but Magnepan terms it a "full range quasi ribbon". An explanation of planar technology is offered at https://www.magnepan.com/magneplanar_technology

And Magnepan is quite up front that they will sound "better" with better amplification - high current capacity amps (that double, or come close to doubling, their output from 8ohms to 4ohms). Maggies do love power, and can soak up a lot of it, but when you think about it the LRS rated sensitivity is 86 db. The BMR is rated at 85 db. I can attest they can soak up power just as well. But I agree, while the LRS might be a "budget" speaker, you can't really use budget amplification to get the most out of them (as Magnepan itself states).

Focal, Salk, Totem, and Revel all have models with Beryllium tweeters. Not sure who else might.
good point about amplification...I think in the trade off, Dennis gets great bass extension at the expense of sensitivity, despite the reasonably large cabinet! Every speaker has to deal with some compromises...

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post #8453 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 09:57 AM
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How about the ELAC Adante As-61?

Just looked at it, that is an extreme 10khz bump. Don’t know if we can put it under the extremely well measuring category.

But may sound good, along the same lines of how people like B&W.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8454 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 10:47 AM
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Glad to know that Dennis is doing well. I was really considering this last year for a dedicated 2ch setup. When I was ready to make a purchase, I was too late already.



I considered the Buchardt S400 but I went with a Klipsch Forte III as it was a killer deal for 2k usd for brand new pair and paired it with a tube amp.



I liked the dynamics overall and really can't complain compared to my Emotiva T1 from my HT setup.


I guess when I upgrade my T1s probably I will go to MA Golds.
I have ordered the S400s. With the BMR Philharmonitor ascending the ladder a bit, the S400 may now be the speaker to beat under $2k.

Let us know how the Fortes work out.

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post #8455 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 11:15 AM
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I have ordered the S400s. With the BMR Philharmonitor ascending the ladder a bit, the S400 may now be the speaker to beat under $2k.

Let us know how the Fortes work out.

I had the Forte's for 3 weeks now. I use this in my analog setup using Rega Planar 6 with Ania MC, Fono MC and Yaqin MC-13s Tube Amp.


I've been using my TT before with my Emotiva T1 and can tell that the ribbon tweeter is more airy, detailed and laid back than the horn tweeters. I like how the clarity of the ribbon tweeter produces and the trebles are pretty nice as well. But the AMT is laid back as it is sweet sounding but hearing the horns from the Forte made the ribbons tweeter for me boring.


The forte is really engaging and fun to listen to. As now I kinda understand the differences of the two speakers that I have. I mostly listen to jazz and those big bands, soundstage is pretty awesome. The bass from the forte's are fast and tight. The dynamics are powerful and has impact even in lower volumes! It is amazing as I had it setup in my bedroom and treated my back walls with Auralex acoustic foams only.



I have yet to roll some tubes soon and do some upgrades to the amp as well. So far, I am very pleased with the Klipsch and suprised by it.


I am not by any means expert as this is just an initial impression of the Forte iii's. I will need to give it more time but everyday it keeps getting better.
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post #8456 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 11:17 AM
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Sure wish @jsalk was going to attend the California Audio Show in Oakland. Would love to hear him demo some of his speakers!
We have shown at CAS twice in the past and are currently considering attending this year. We haven't made a final decision yet, but there is a fairly good chance we will be there.

- Jim
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post #8457 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 11:41 AM
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We have shown at CAS twice in the past and are currently considering attending this year. We haven't made a final decision yet, but there is a fairly good chance we will be there.

- Jim
Jim, if you're there, I'll be there! Always wanted to hear your speakers since @Nuance enlightened me/many of us years ago.

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post #8458 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Paopawdecarabao View Post
I had the Forte's for 3 weeks now. I use this in my analog setup using Rega Planar 6 with Ania MC, Fono MC and Yaqin MC-13s Tube Amp.


I've been using my TT before with my Emotiva T1 and can tell that the ribbon tweeter is more airy, detailed and laid back than the horn tweeters. I like how the clarity of the ribbon tweeter produces and the trebles are pretty nice as well. But the AMT is laid back as it is sweet sounding but hearing the horns from the Forte made the ribbons tweeter for me boring.


The forte is really engaging and fun to listen to. As now I kinda understand the differences of the two speakers that I have. I mostly listen to jazz and those big bands, soundstage is pretty awesome. The bass from the forte's are fast and tight. The dynamics are powerful and has impact even in lower volumes! It is amazing as I had it setup in my bedroom and treated my back walls with Auralex acoustic foams only.



I have yet to roll some tubes soon and do some upgrades to the amp as well. So far, I am very pleased with the Klipsch and suprised by it.


I am not by any means expert as this is just an initial impression of the Forte iii's. I will need to give it more time but everyday it keeps getting better.
I have to say that I have had a similar experience with the Forte III's. I picked these up recently because of how they sounded, and because of their efficiency. They pair unbelievable well with my MC240 Tube Amps. I was very impressed with their performance. They are my first Horn Speaker and so far I am enjoying them a lot! I got more than I expected, that's for sure.
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post #8459 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 12:47 PM
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I am doing a center channel though since Dennis had no specific design for that.

I'll post my question in this thread (rather than the Selah thread) since it may be of interest to other BMR owners.


To clarify, is the center channel you mention going to be designed to go with the BMRs? I have a pair of BMRs, and may want a center channel in the future, so I'm curious.


And for anyone else wondering about BMR centers, @jsalk confirmed in the Salk thread that he can do BMR center channels. I don't know what the design would be, though.
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post #8460 of 9096 Old 04-24-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
I'll post my question in this thread (rather than the Selah thread) since it may be of interest to other BMR owners.


To clarify, is the center channel you mention going to be designed to go with the BMRs? I have a pair of BMRs, and may want a center channel in the future, so I'm curious.


And for anyone else wondering about BMR centers, @jsalk confirmed in the Salk thread that he can do BMR center channels. I don't know what the design would be, though.
I can say that an old-school BMR (with the Bennic cabinet and crossover) can just have the tweeter turned 90 degrees This is what Dennis did for mine. If you have the space, upright would be best.
I would love to see what Jim does as a center!

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