Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 283 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8461 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
I'll post my question in this thread (rather than the Selah thread) since it may be of interest to other BMR owners.


To clarify, is the center channel you mention going to be designed to go with the BMRs? I have a pair of BMRs, and may want a center channel in the future, so I'm curious.


And for anyone else wondering about BMR centers, @jsalk confirmed in the Salk thread that he can do BMR center channels. I don't know what the design would be, though.
In terms of center, I think Dennis made a few for people by simple rotating the tweeter 90 degrees and then just laying it on its side...but i could be wrong! Im sure Salk Sound could easily do this.
However, as mentioned, Rick has mentioned that he can do one as well...

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post #8462 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
I'll post my question in this thread (rather than the Selah thread) since it may be of interest to other BMR owners.


To clarify, is the center channel you mention going to be designed to go with the BMRs? I have a pair of BMRs, and may want a center channel in the future, so I'm curious.


And for anyone else wondering about BMR centers, @jsalk confirmed in the Salk thread that he can do BMR center channels. I don't know what the design would be, though.
In most cases, it's just a single BMR with the tweeter rotated 90 degrees. That's at least how it was/is with the pre-fab BMR's. I don't see why it'd be any different with the Salk ones.

Edit: I'm supposedly on the list with Dennis to get a pair of his remaining stock and did request to get a 3rd with the rotated tweeter. I'm thinking/hoping it'll make for an awesome 5.1 system!
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post #8463 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
I'll post my question in this thread (rather than the Selah thread) since it may be of interest to other BMR owners.


To clarify, is the center channel you mention going to be designed to go with the BMRs? I have a pair of BMRs, and may want a center channel in the future, so I'm curious.


And for anyone else wondering about BMR centers, @jsalk confirmed in the Salk thread that he can do BMR center channels. I don't know what the design would be, though.
Yes, designed to match the BMR. The midrange and tweeter are the same. The woofers (SB Acoustics aluminum cones) in the first design are different as I gave that as a lower cost option. The SB drivers are actually more linear around the crossover point than the Scan-Speak used in the BMR. The Scan-Speak cone material is an older style back from the 90's. If you look close at the SB cone you'll see it being used by company "R" in their well-regarded speakers. The Scan-Speak woofers could be used in an alternate version if a BMR owner asks for that and increases the cost by a small amount. With a sealed box the bass blends well with subwoofers.

Matching entails keeping the same neutrality of the original design. With the additional woofer sensitivity will be a little higher plus the crossover parts will be upgraded versus the current BMR's that have been sold. With a horizontal center the coverage will be much closer to an upright BMR than placing the BMR horizontally and rotating the tweeter.

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post #8464 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ColSanderz View Post
Edit: I'm supposedly on the list with Dennis to get a pair of his remaining stock and did request to get a 3rd with the rotated tweeter. I'm thinking/hoping it'll make for an awesome 5.1 system!
I felt, and do believe the same! I'll be subbing my front BMRs with Phil 3s, though. But wouldn't it be grand having 2 more at the rear for 7.1!
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post #8465 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
I felt, and do believe the same! I'll be subbing my front BMRs with Phil 3s, though. But wouldn't it be grand having 2 more at the rear for 7.1!
I WISH I could convince my wife to let me pick up the Phil 3's that @canyoncreek is selling (if they're even still available), but finishes aside, she hates how they look. Oh well, what can you do. I imagine they'll be awesome for L/R duty for movies though!

Funny you mention 7.1 though. I'm in talks with Jim to have him make a pair of BMR's. It's a bit more than I was planning on spending originally, but I think the handmade-in-the-usa and the quality of his work will be worth it.
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post #8466 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 03:12 PM
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Jim, if you're there, I'll be there! Always wanted to hear your speakers since @Nuance enlightened me/many of us years ago.
Happy to be of assistance!
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post #8467 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Paopawdecarabao View Post
I had the Forte's for 3 weeks now. I use this in my analog setup using Rega Planar 6 with Ania MC, Fono MC and Yaqin MC-13s Tube Amp.


I've been using my TT before with my Emotiva T1 and can tell that the ribbon tweeter is more airy, detailed and laid back than the horn tweeters. I like how the clarity of the ribbon tweeter produces and the trebles are pretty nice as well. But the AMT is laid back as it is sweet sounding but hearing the horns from the Forte made the ribbons tweeter for me boring.


The forte is really engaging and fun to listen to. As now I kinda understand the differences of the two speakers that I have. I mostly listen to jazz and those big bands, soundstage is pretty awesome. The bass from the forte's are fast and tight. The dynamics are powerful and has impact even in lower volumes! It is amazing as I had it setup in my bedroom and treated my back walls with Auralex acoustic foams only.



I have yet to roll some tubes soon and do some upgrades to the amp as well. So far, I am very pleased with the Klipsch and suprised by it.


I am not by any means expert as this is just an initial impression of the Forte iii's. I will need to give it more time but everyday it keeps getting better.
that amt tweeter is really underrated in the emo's , imo, but those higher end klipsch must be lots of fun...at emo prices they(t1) are tough to beat ,i'm not even sure if some of the "better" entry level speakers from dynaudio or revel and others is "enough" better to justify the price jump from the t1 (at $500)...
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post #8468 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
that amt tweeter is really underrated in the emo's , imo, but those higher end klipsch must be lots of fun...at emo prices they(t1) are tough to beat ,i'm not even sure if some of the "better" entry level speakers from dynaudio or revel and others is "enough" better to justify the price jump from the t1 (at $500)...

True! The AMT tweeter is very detailed and clear and I am very happy using my emotiva's in my HT setup. Even the E1's I made them my atmos speaker mountled flat on my ceiling.


I just got a really good deal for the forte's for half the price.
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post #8469 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I have ordered the S400s. With the BMR Philharmonitor ascending the ladder a bit, the S400 may now be the speaker to beat under $2k.

Let us know how the Fortes work out.
Look forward to hearing your impressions. I don't recall, did you participate in the "road show"? If so, that will be enlightening, though audio memory is extremely SHORT, but our memories of our impressions should not be as much.

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post #8470 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
Yes, designed to match the BMR. The midrange and tweeter are the same. The woofers (SB Acoustics aluminum cones) in the first design are different as I gave that as a lower cost option. The SB drivers are actually more linear around the crossover point than the Scan-Speak used in the BMR. The Scan-Speak cone material is an older style back from the 90's. If you look close at the SB cone you'll see it being used by company "R" in their well-regarded speakers. The Scan-Speak woofers could be used in an alternate version if a BMR owner asks for that and increases the cost by a small amount. With a sealed box the bass blends well with subwoofers.

Matching entails keeping the same neutrality of the original design. With the additional woofer sensitivity will be a little higher plus the crossover parts will be upgraded versus the current BMR's that have been sold. With a horizontal center the coverage will be much closer to an upright BMR than placing the BMR horizontally and rotating the tweeter.
This is the design Rick and I discussed, so I guess I'm the guinea pig. There are some valid reasons why a BMR on it's side with the tweeter rotated is not the BEST option, and that a WTMW with the T and M in an horizontal array is superior. Is it audible? Not sure, but that is what I went with, including the SB drivers rather than scan speak, and sealed rather than ported. I'm excited to get started on the build.

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post #8471 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ColSanderz View Post
I WISH I could convince my wife to let me pick up the Phil 3's that @canyoncreek is selling (if they're even still available), but finishes aside, she hates how they look. Oh well, what can you do. I imagine they'll be awesome for L/R duty for movies though!

Funny you mention 7.1 though. I'm in talks with Jim to have him make a pair of BMR's. It's a bit more than I was planning on spending originally, but I think the handmade-in-the-usa and the quality of his work will be worth it.
From the start of our marriage (35 years ago Saturday) my wife knew hi-fi was a priority for me and has indulged me, as much as possible, without it taking away from kids, etc. One of our first purchases, after a queen bed, with wedding money was an H/K integrated amp ($400 at the time !) to replace a failing Dynaco SCA-80Q. She's put up with a lot, though I went through about 15 years of little to no upgrades. God bless the wives that get it.

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post #8472 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I have ordered the S400s. With the BMR Philharmonitor ascending the ladder a bit, the S400 may now be the speaker to beat under $2k.

Let us know how the Fortes work out.
Those look pretty interesting. Congrats...when will they arrive?
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post #8473 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 05:47 PM
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Those look pretty interesting. Congrats...when will they arrive?
The site says they will be available in June, so June/July is when I should have them. I will be working with a local friend and A/V reviewer to give them the proper treament.

I can't wait. I love the design - it seems they really took their time to go through every aspect and get the most they could out of them: https://www.buchardtaudio.com/s400-detailed-description

I don't want to get the thread off-track, but since we're on the topic of "what speakers fill the $1500-2000 space now?"

Although a little pricey, after measuring speaker height from floor and my head height, I got the matching stands as well.
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post #8474 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 05:51 PM
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Look forward to hearing your impressions. I don't recall, did you participate in the "road show"? If so, that will be enlightening, though audio memory is extremely SHORT, but our memories of our impressions should not be as much.
I wish I could have, but I did not. I really want to hear the BMRs.

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post #8475 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 06:16 PM
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...but finishes aside, she hates how they look. Oh well, what can you do.
Put up a full sized photo of it up. Maybe she'll grow to like them. I know I did. Initially, neither I nor my wife didn't like the looks of them either. Eventually we've grown to like them mostly. Mine are not nearly as nice looking either.
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post #8476 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 06:38 PM
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Put up a full sized photo of it up. Maybe she'll grow to like them.
Haha, I can just see it now: wife comes home to life-size photos of speakers glued to cardboard flanking the TV
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post #8477 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 06:43 PM
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Haha, I can just see it now: wife comes home to life-size photos of speakers glued to cardboard flanking the TV
That's an idea too. Build a mockup using cardboard and place another set of speakers underneath it. Paint it to look like the Phil 3. If she doesn't complain, replace it with the real thing.
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post #8478 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 09:14 PM
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I’d say skip the cardboard and show her this photo of the type of finish she could allow you to order.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.ph...msg1739925#new
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post #8479 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 10:03 PM
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Happy to be of assistance!


Where have you been? I have not seen you post for quite a while.


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post #8480 of 9351 Old 04-24-2019, 10:31 PM
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I’d say skip the cardboard and show her this photo of the type of finish she could allow you to order.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.ph...msg1739925#new
Those are nice. I'm personally a fan of the Curly Maple with Silver Gray Dye and Burst Edge

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One benefit to this design is that the woofer being down low should eliminate the 90-150Hz floor bounce cancellation that most bookshelf speakers will see. Or rather, shift it to another frequency.
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post #8481 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 12:36 AM
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The Gray dye with burst edges might be one of the sexiest finishes! I'm having the Phil 3s done in Midnight Blue on curly maple. (the photo is quilted maple)


(Dennis talked me out of the burst edges with the chamfered cabinets.)


I definitely like the idea of a cardboard mock up! And letting her pick the finish! (I'm kind of in love with the Zebra Wood Veneer, myself. That Spalted Birch is pretty cool too!)

But I will say, the cabinets will cost a chunk more than they used to. For all the conversation about the BMRs lately, the Phil 3 cabinet is his most complex build.
Frankly, though, after my hour and a half with Dennis' old Phil 3 customer doing my audition there... I can't imagine what speakers would compete with these.

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post #8482 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 06:11 AM
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The Gray dye with burst edges might be one of the sexiest finishes! I'm having the Phil 3s done in Midnight Blue on curly maple. (the photo is quilted maple)


(Dennis talked me out of the burst edges with the chamfered cabinets.)


I definitely like the idea of a cardboard mock up! And letting her pick the finish! (I'm kind of in love with the Zebra Wood Veneer, myself. That Spalted Birch is pretty cool too!)

But I will say, the cabinets will cost a chunk more than they used to. For all the conversation about the BMRs lately, the Phil 3 cabinet is his most complex build.
Frankly, though, after my hour and a half with Dennis' old Phil 3 customer doing my audition there... I can't imagine what speakers would compete with these.
Just wait till you married guys come home to a cardboard mock up of you and it looks more like Tom Brady!

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post #8483 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 06:54 AM
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I started my search for new speakers a few months ago and, based on comments here, I was lusting for the Phil 3. It was a little above my price point, however, and is no longer available, so I am back to ground zero. I have auditioned a few Maggies and ML ESLs, and I do like their sound, and am hoping any conventional speaker with RAAL tweeters would also satisfy me. So, the speakers I am now considering are:
BMR sold now by Salk - $2400
SongTowerRT, also Salk - $2900
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower - $2700 (with RAAL upgrade)
Magnepan 1.7i - $2000 (hard to find the retail price on line)
Martin Logan ESL - $2500

I know of no way to audition any of the first three on my list anywhere in the NE.
Any comments? I do think a tower speaker is more attractive than a bookshelf (both visually and sonically).
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post #8484 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 07:14 AM
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I started my search for new speakers a few months ago and, based on comments here, I was lusting for the Phil 3. It was a little above my price point, however, and is no longer available, so I am back to ground zero. I have auditioned a few Maggies and ML ESLs, and I do like their sound, and am hoping any conventional speaker with RAAL tweeters would also satisfy me. So, the speakers I am now considering are:
BMR sold now by Salk - $2400
SongTowerRT, also Salk - $2900
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower - $2700 (with RAAL upgrade)
Magnepan 1.7i - $2000 (hard to find the retail price on line)
Martin Logan ESL - $2500

I know of no way to audition any of the first three on my list anywhere in the NE.
Any comments? I do think a tower speaker is more attractive than a bookshelf (both visually and sonically).
Your price for the Magnepan is correct, retail (the only price they have) is $1999. Honestly, if you have room for them, they're great. When upgrading my MMGs, I was looking at the .7i and the 1.7i, but thought I owed it to myself check out what was new in "box" speakers that would provide the transparency and clarity of Magnepans. The size of the 1.7i was not appealing to me, even though they're not that much bigger than the MMGs, but I'd have had to rearrange my room a bit (not an easy thing) to really accommodate them fairly. Obviously I wound up with the BMRs based on quality, size, and price. With where things stand today, and I had an easier room, I'd go with the 1.7i for a system where music is the priority. I think they are probably the best bang for buck at that price point (you might also look at the new Magenpan LRS, which replaced the MMG as Magnepan's introductory "loss leader" of the product line - it is getting amazing reviews for a $650 a pair speaker).

Display: Vizio P55-E1l Pre-pro: Marantz 7703; Amps: Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 1, H/K AVR 520 (direct in to amps); Sources: Sony UBP-X700; X-box 1 S; Technics 1200 Mk II; Win10 PC for digital; Phono Preamp: Emotiva XPS-1; Speakers - LR: Philharmonic BMR LR; Center: Selah Audio BMR-CC; Surrounds: Wharfedale Reva-2; Rear Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 220; Atmos: TF - Monoprice Alpha 8; TR - BIC VI-38; Subwoofers: dual Rythmik L22s
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post #8485 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 07:19 AM
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Put up a full sized photo of it up. Maybe she'll grow to like them. I know I did. Initially, neither I nor my wife didn't like the looks of them either. Eventually we've grown to like them mostly. Mine are not nearly as nice looking either.
Mine are in shiny black. My wife says they remind her of Darth Vader LOL
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post #8486 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 07:54 AM
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This is the design Rick and I discussed, so I guess I'm the guinea pig. There are some valid reasons why a BMR on it's side with the tweeter rotated is not the BEST option, and that a WTMW with the T and M in an horizontal array is superior. Is it audible? Not sure, but that is what I went with, including the SB drivers rather than scan speak, and sealed rather than ported. I'm excited to get started on the build.
With the more recent BMR design (having the T, M, and W aligned), how would WTMW make a difference when compared to the TMW aligned on its side with the T rotated?

Philharmonic BMR Philharmonitor | Rythmik F12G | Parasound Halo P6 | PS Audio Stellar M700 | Oppo BDP-103
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post #8487 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 07:58 AM
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I started my search for new speakers a few months ago and, based on comments here, I was lusting for the Phil 3. It was a little above my price point, however, and is no longer available, so I am back to ground zero. I have auditioned a few Maggies and ML ESLs, and I do like their sound, and am hoping any conventional speaker with RAAL tweeters would also satisfy me. So, the speakers I am now considering are:
BMR sold now by Salk - $2400
SongTowerRT, also Salk - $2900
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower - $2700 (with RAAL upgrade)
Magnepan 1.7i - $2000 (hard to find the retail price on line)
Martin Logan ESL - $2500

I know of no way to audition any of the first three on my list anywhere in the NE.
Any comments? I do think a tower speaker is more attractive than a bookshelf (both visually and sonically).
Back on page 272/273, someone was looking to (maybe?) sell his Phil 3's for $3200. I brought it up again with the wifey and got a hard no again lol, especially compared to what's in the main system now.

She liked the BMR's though, and I think the finish we've settled on is fiddleback makore with a camphor burl baffle... similar to this cabinet by Omega. Going to pair them with some nice EL84 monoblocks. Just need to make the first payment to have Jim start on them.

And @BluesDaddy56 , I wouldn't say that she "gets it", just that she knows it makes me happy So she allows me a lot of leeway. I kinda get it with kids though. Our son is about to turn a year old in May... I have a feeling that after this I won't be able to do much for a long while.
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Main System: Rega RP10 -> Rega Aura -> Rega Osiris -> Rega RS10

aka one big happy Rega family
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post #8488 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 08:15 AM
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With the more recent BMR design (having the T, M, and W aligned), how would WTMW make a difference when compared to the TMW aligned on its side with the T rotated?
With a BMR on it's side, the T and M are side by side. With the WMTW, the Tweeter is above the Mid-range as in the BMR standing straight. Rick can speak to the advantages of this far better than I and why it is a superior approach. Will I hear the difference? Maybe not, but I like the look as well.

Display: Vizio P55-E1l Pre-pro: Marantz 7703; Amps: Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 1, H/K AVR 520 (direct in to amps); Sources: Sony UBP-X700; X-box 1 S; Technics 1200 Mk II; Win10 PC for digital; Phono Preamp: Emotiva XPS-1; Speakers - LR: Philharmonic BMR LR; Center: Selah Audio BMR-CC; Surrounds: Wharfedale Reva-2; Rear Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 220; Atmos: TF - Monoprice Alpha 8; TR - BIC VI-38; Subwoofers: dual Rythmik L22s
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post #8489 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ColSanderz View Post
And @BluesDaddy56 , I wouldn't say that she "gets it", just that she knows it makes me happy So she allows me a lot of leeway. I kinda get it with kids though. Our son is about to turn a year old in May... I have a feeling that after this I won't be able to do much for a long while.
Yep, get it while you can! There was period I not only didn't buy any new equipment, but not much new music, either. Was limiting myself to one new CD a month. But that was a long time ago...

Display: Vizio P55-E1l Pre-pro: Marantz 7703; Amps: Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 1, H/K AVR 520 (direct in to amps); Sources: Sony UBP-X700; X-box 1 S; Technics 1200 Mk II; Win10 PC for digital; Phono Preamp: Emotiva XPS-1; Speakers - LR: Philharmonic BMR LR; Center: Selah Audio BMR-CC; Surrounds: Wharfedale Reva-2; Rear Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 220; Atmos: TF - Monoprice Alpha 8; TR - BIC VI-38; Subwoofers: dual Rythmik L22s
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post #8490 of 9351 Old 04-25-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
With a BMR on it's side, the T and M are side by side. With the WMTW, the Tweeter is above the Mid-range as in the BMR standing straight. Rick can speak to the advantages of this far better than I and why it is a superior approach. Will I hear the difference? Maybe not, but I like the look as well.
Sorry I misunderstood...I thought the WMTW would have all four aligned horizontally.

Philharmonic BMR Philharmonitor | Rythmik F12G | Parasound Halo P6 | PS Audio Stellar M700 | Oppo BDP-103
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