Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 284 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8491 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ColSanderz View Post
...I wouldn't say that she "gets it", just that she knows it makes me happy So she allows me a lot of leeway. I kinda get it with kids though. Our son is about to turn a year old in May... I have a feeling that after this I won't be able to do much for a long while.
I have mixed emotions about my wife's attitude. She's like a female version of me. Because of her, we're getting a >85" TV and a projector. I asked her if she wanted to get a minivan or SUV to replace her car since we have a baby now. She said she wanted a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon.

The only drawback is that my wallet can't keep up with the upgrades she wants.
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post #8492 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 08:54 AM
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@duc135 , I'm kinda jealous that she wants a Jeep My wife doesn't understand the jeep love. I had a great '96 Jeep Cherokee that was 600k miles young, but was forced to get rid of it because she thought it was unsafe. The new Jeep Wrangler JK's are really nice, so have fun shopping

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post #8493 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MTVhike View Post
I started my search for new speakers a few months ago and, based on comments here, I was lusting for the Phil 3. It was a little above my price point, however, and is no longer available, so I am back to ground zero. I have auditioned a few Maggies and ML ESLs, and I do like their sound, and am hoping any conventional speaker with RAAL tweeters would also satisfy me. So, the speakers I am now considering are:
BMR sold now by Salk - $2400
SongTowerRT, also Salk - $2900
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower - $2700 (with RAAL upgrade)
Magnepan 1.7i - $2000 (hard to find the retail price on line)
Martin Logan ESL - $2500

I know of no way to audition any of the first three on my list anywhere in the NE.
Any comments? I do think a tower speaker is more attractive than a bookshelf (both visually and sonically).
If I'm not mistaken, Ascend gives you a 30 day trial on your purchase. I don't know about return shipping, especially on towers, but probably worth it to hear for yourself and in your room.
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post #8494 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by D33vious View Post
If I'm not mistaken, Ascend gives you a 30 day trial on your purchase. I don't know about return shipping, especially on towers, but probably worth it to hear for yourself and in your room.
I might take Ascend up on that if other options are eliminated. I would just like to find a dealer in the NE which has speakers with RAAL tweeters and see what all the fuss is about.
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post #8495 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
Sorry I misunderstood...I thought the WMTW would have all four aligned horizontally.
In theory, the WMTW is the design of choice for a center, since it eliminates the horizontal off-axis nulls that you get with an MTM or a 3-way on its side. The MTM has the worst null issue. Since the woofers have different arrival times as you move off axis horizontally (because one woofer would be closer to you than the other, and more so the further you go off axis) That means the sound from the two woofers arrives at different times off axis, and that means they will no longer be in phase with each other. Because the phase differs, there will be destructive cancellation, usually around 1800 Hz or so. This null can be quite wide and deep, and will show up in reflections from the off-axis sound. With a 3-way on its side, the woofer can be crossed much lower, and as a result the wave lengths are long enough not to be affected much by a difference in phase off axis. But you will get a dip at the crossover point between the midrange and tweeter, where there will be a difference in phase off axis, and the short wave lengths will cancel each other. However, the width of the cancellation dip is narrower than for the MTM, and the ear won't be as sensitive to the missing information. With an WMTW, the woofers are crossed low to avoid cancellation, and the tweeter is moved up on axis vertically with the midrange. That means there won't be any difference in the flight time between the tweeter and mid off axis because they're aligned with each other vertically rather than being side-by-side. I measured the BMR on its side, and found the dip between the mid and tweet quite acceptable on out to fairly far distances off axis horizontally. It's quite controversial how audible nulls in reflected sound are, and as for direct sound to a listener sitting off axis, the problem won't become severe until you sit further off axis than a lot of people do.
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post #8496 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
In theory, the WMTW is the design of choice for a center, since it eliminates the horizontal off-axis nulls that you get with an MTM or a 3-way on its side. The MTM has the worst null issue. Since the woofers have different arrival times as you move off axis horizontally (because one woofer would be closer to you than the other, and more so the further you go off axis) That means the sound from the two woofers arrives at different times off axis, and that means they will no longer be in phase with each other. Because the phase differs, there will be destructive cancellation, usually around 1800 Hz or so. This null can be quite wide and deep, and will show up in reflections from the off-axis sound. With a 3-way on its side, the woofer can be crossed much lower, and as a result the wave lengths are long enough not to be affected much by a difference in phase off axis. But you will get a dip at the crossover point between the midrange and tweeter, where there will be a difference in phase off axis, and the short wave lengths will cancel each other. However, the width of the cancellation dip is narrower than for the MTM, and the ear won't be as sensitive to the missing information. With an WMTW, the woofers are crossed low to avoid cancellation, and the tweeter is moved up on axis vertically with the midrange. That means there won't be any difference in the flight time between the tweeter and mid off axis because they're aligned with each other vertically rather than being side-by-side. I measured the BMR on its side, and found the dip between the mid and tweet quite acceptable on out to fairly far distances off axis horizontally. It's quite controversial how audible nulls in reflected sound are, and as for direct sound to a listener sitting off axis, the problem won't become severe until you sit further off axis than a lot of people do.

This is one of the reasons why we missed you Dennis, I am glad to see you back.
Cheers
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post #8497 of 9088 Old 04-25-2019, 06:58 PM
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@MTVhike You will find with the RAAL... that like most great transducers, the better the source and electronics the better the sound.... meaning big and deep soundstage, tonal purity, and no harshness.

Personally, I think the RAAL sounds really good... as others have noted some of the Be tweeters sound very good also.
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post #8498 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 05:12 AM
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One thing about the RAAL I have noticed is how good is sounds at low to moderate volume! I have dome tweeters that ONLY sound good if you get them loud, otherwise they dissapear. SOME day, I will get the proper amplification to hear what my Phil-BMR can do really loud, but at low to mid volume, they sound fantastic!
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post #8499 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 08:09 AM
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Dennis, glad to see you are back posting again!

Just wondering about the future of your Phil 3's? I absolutely love mine, and it truly is my "forever" speaker! Actually, all 7 are!

So, will the Phil 3 find a new home?

I hope you are spending a lot more time enjoying music these days!

Occasionally, I would really like to see you reference a CD that you really like.

As someone who is a professional, career musician, as well as "the man" when it comes to all things speaker related, I would love to get your "thumbs up" recommendation on a music CD every now and again.

Thanks Dennis!
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Talking to Jim about a pair of BMRs. I emailed Dennis a few months ago for a pair but he never got back to me. Then I found how about his health. Really bummed I couldn't get in on these before the price increase.


On that subject, I know a lot has been said about the increase, but can current owners chime in on your thoughts compared to other mainstream offerings in the current price range?



Thanks!

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post #8501 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lewdogg View Post
Talking to Jim about a pair of BMRs. I emailed Dennis a few months ago for a pair but he never got back to me. Then I found how about his health. Really bummed I couldn't get in on these before the price increase.


On that subject, I know a lot has been said about the increase, but can current owners chime in on your thoughts compared to other mainstream offerings in the current price range?



Thanks!
I posted a brief set of my experiences here based on some auditions I did back in November. I was looking at 3-way towers as mains for a 7.x.x system. Obviously, the cost of the BMR is much closer to these now than it was back in November, but I still feel that the BMR will outperform the same speakers today.

7.2: Marantz SR6012, Outlaw Model 2200 (L/C/R/SL/SR)
Philharmonic Phil 3 (L//R), BMR (C), BMR (SL/SR), Mini-Phil (RL/RR), Outlaw X-13
Sony XBR49X900F, Sony UBPX700
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post #8502 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by lewdogg View Post
Talking to Jim about a pair of BMRs. I emailed Dennis a few months ago for a pair but he never got back to me. Then I found how about his health. Really bummed I couldn't get in on these before the price increase.


On that subject, I know a lot has been said about the increase, but can current owners chime in on your thoughts compared to other mainstream offerings in the current price range?



Thanks!
I compared the BMRs to the Ascend Sierra towers (with RAAL upgrade) and the Monitor Audio Silver 10. The BMRs won out (though I supplement them with a sub...if I didn't have the sub, in my space, I'd have probably chosen the Silver 10s because they were the best of the three at covering the full frequency range in my space).


I have a thread about the BMRs v. Sierra towers: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...aal-tower.html


Edit: Looking back at that, I should make clear that I think what I felt at the time to be a lack of upper bass/lower midrange in the BMR was really just me having been used to an emphasis in that area from the Silver 10s (they were my main speakers for a while). What was neutrality in the BMRs I at the time perceived as a lack of something.

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post #8503 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by lewdogg View Post

On that subject, I know a lot has been said about the increase, but can current owners chime in on your thoughts compared to other mainstream offerings in the current price range?
If you read through this thread recently, you will see much talk about what is the competition of the Salk-BMR at $2400 or $2600/pr. However, more discussion on this topic would be great!

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Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only, Yamaha RXV-363 AV receiver
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post #8504 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
If you read through this thread recently, you will see much talk about what is the competition of the Salk-BMR at $2400 or $2600/pr. However, more discussion on this topic would be great!

Was just reading Jim's post again about his thoughts on the price. If he feels like there's not a speaker available that can beat the BMR at this price then I'll take him at his word. Plus at $2,600 I can choose a sexy veneer finish that isn't available from 99% of the manufacturers out there. Win, win.



I'm just torn because I was originally trying to keep my budget to around $1,500 - 1,800. But the BMRs seem like a true performer that I could keep for life and still be happy with them.
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post #8505 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbulkexpanse View Post
I compared the BMRs to the Ascend Sierra towers (with RAAL upgrade) and the Monitor Audio Silver 10. The BMRs won out (though I supplement them with a sub...if I didn't have the sub, in my space, I'd have probably chosen the Silver 10s because they were the best of the three at covering the full frequency range in my space).


I have a thread about the BMRs v. Sierra towers: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...aal-tower.html


Edit: Looking back at that, I should make clear that I think what I felt at the time to be a lack of upper bass/lower midrange in the BMR was really just me having been used to an emphasis in that area from the Silver 10s (they were my main speakers for a while). What was neutrality in the BMRs I at the time perceived as a lack of something.
Just read through that thread... Thanks for re-posting that link!


I was almost pre-sold on MA Silver 500s. After all the research I did (about 5mos), I just kept coming back to those as my mains. They sounded fantastic in audition. Hell, even the Silver 300 sounded real nice.


All of the speakers, with the exception, maybe, of the KEF R900s, had a somewhat... boxy sound. I really don't know how to describe what I heard in different rooms and days listening to different speakers... but there was a constraint that they all seemed to share. I didn't get that with the BMRs. Part of me wants to go back and listen to the R900s if they are still at the local HiFi Shoppe, now that I have the BMR experience.


(Though I cannot exonerate KEF and the Uni-Q driver for tearing up my earholes during that audition... I had never experienced fatigue like that before... hopefully never again!)



Regardless, I do hope very much to hear the Sierra Towers someday as they keep coming up as the closest thing to the BMR. Not in the market... just want the experience!


But for the BMRs, what I get from them that I did not from any of the other speakers is what I can best describe as an "ease" with which they reproduce sound... If the other speakers were constrained by their boxes... the BMRs are not (to me). (And if anybody knows what I'm talking about, please explain it to me! )


Cheers!
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post #8506 of 9088 Old 04-26-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
One thing about the RAAL I have noticed is how good is sounds at low to moderate volume! I have dome tweeters that ONLY sound good if you get them loud, otherwise they dissapear. SOME day, I will get the proper amplification to hear what my Phil-BMR can do really loud, but at low to mid volume, they sound fantastic!
This excites me for sure. I know a big difference to me comparing kef q100s vs q150s was how they sound at low volumes. The q100s sound really good to me at low volumes, but start to get a little harsh when you crank them up. The q150s are kind of the opposite in that the upper mids and highs can sound lacking or veiled at low volumes, but they sound better the more I turn them up. I realize these are much cheaper speakers, but that is my experience. Can't wait to hear the BMRs for myself.
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post #8507 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 06:20 AM
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Just saw this.... your chance to try a ribbon at a bargain price... and if it’s not your cup of tea, resell it... no, this is not my listing.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161505.0
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post #8508 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 08:06 AM
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Just saw this.... your chance to try a ribbon at a bargain price... and if it’s not your cup of tea, resell it... no, this is not my listing.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161505.0
Isn't that an AMT?

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post #8509 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 08:23 AM
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Isn't that an AMT?
no .. that's a true ribbon (by the looks).. amt's are more rectangular.. at least every one i have ever seen...

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post #8510 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 08:26 AM
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I think it’s a ribbon but not an amt

http://www.selahaudio.com/compatto/
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post #8511 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 08:32 AM
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I think it’s a ribbon but not an amt

http://www.selahaudio.com/compatto/

What in the hell?!?

He’s using a $30 Dayton driver!

That’s impressive. I don’t see why Dayton drivers aren’t used as often, from what I’m seeing, they can clearly stick with the big dogs like Seas, Scan Speak, Satori.
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8512 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 09:07 AM
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I think it’s a ribbon but not an amt

http://www.selahaudio.com/compatto/
I think I found it: it's probably a custom Aurum Cantus ribbon

http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcant...eeter%20G2.htm
http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcant...ex_tweeter.htm
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post #8513 of 9088 Old 04-27-2019, 09:15 AM
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If those are good nearfield, they would be great on my desk, and they look nice, too. But I need them like I need a lobotomy...my Mackies work pretty well and have built-in amps. Though, they are big, black boxes.

A sub is needed with the Compattos, too.

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Dennis liked the Dayton woofer in the AA series... even paired with the Morel Tweeter. If it works, no reason to not use it!

7.2: Marantz SR6012, Outlaw Model 2200 (L/C/R/SL/SR)
Philharmonic Phil 3 (L//R), BMR (C), BMR (SL/SR), Mini-Phil (RL/RR), Outlaw X-13
Sony XBR49X900F, Sony UBPX700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Correction: it's a BZ Labs CQ76B ribbon tweeter which has a much lower crossover point.
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post #8516 of 9088 Old 04-28-2019, 07:02 AM
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Hope this isn't out of line, but after hearing Dennis didn't even have his own pair of BMRs, it was suggested that maybe a GoFundMe campaign should be started to get him a pair of his own from Jim (and also help with medical expenses). I started one last night. Please pass around to other Dennis Murphy/Philharmonic fans to get the word out...


https://www.gofundme.com/f/med-expen...-dennis-murphy
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post #8517 of 9088 Old 04-28-2019, 07:24 AM
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Doesn't he have his Phil 3s?
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post #8518 of 9088 Old 04-28-2019, 08:30 AM
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Doesn't he have his Phil 3s?
my guess is that he doesn't suffer from lack of good speakers.. but i still think he ought to have a pair of bmr's
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #8519 of 9088 Old 05-01-2019, 08:51 AM
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Hi All!
Just got my teaser photo from Jim yesterday!
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post #8520 of 9088 Old 05-01-2019, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
What in the hell?!?

He’s using a $30 Dayton driver!

That’s impressive. I don’t see why Dayton drivers aren’t used as often, from what I’m seeing, they can clearly stick with the big dogs like Seas, Scan Speak, Satori.
The choice was probably made to keep the speaker under $1K. I'm not sure if I'd equate that with a $30 dayton being "just as good" as a $175 Scan Speak. Almost as good I could see...

It is a sealed box though, so in that instance maybe one is just as good as the other.
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