Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 288 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8611 of 8960 Old 05-10-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
Not if you share a dorm or a studio apartment in a high rise.

Rooftop?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8612 of 8960 Old 05-10-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Rooftop?
All rooftops are sloped. Even if it's flat enough, it may not be accessible. Just saying not everyone has the space.
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post #8613 of 8960 Old 05-10-2019, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
All rooftops are sloped. Even if it's flat enough, it may not be accessible. Just saying not everyone has the space.

If it’s a city apartment, I’d expect the roof to be flat.

But I was joking.

But you can definitely take what space you have, even if it’s above ur bed, and cut wood above it. I’d just recommend you protect stuff you don’t want “woodified”.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8614 of 8960 Old 05-10-2019, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
If it’s a city apartment, I’d expect the roof to be flat.
They may appear flat, but they are indeed sloped to prevent water from pooling.
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post #8615 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
For those in the hunt, there's a pair of BMRs, used, for sale. Indicates "pretty much" new. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...r-piano-black/
Talk about speakers that "disappear" or are "transparent"...looks like you can almost see through these

I couldn't resist--that reflected brick wall makes them look like "ghost" speakers.
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post #8616 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by _tk View Post
I'd buy a kit, absolutely. Even plans would be fine.

I don't know exactly how it works, but why not have a few "Dennis Murphy" DIY kits at places like diysoundgroup.com or Meniscus audio or something? The Carmody designs are a huge hit...and having built a few of them, I know why (inexpensive, fun to build and they sound great).
I'll check with Mark at Meniscus to see if he has any interest in offering a BMR kit.
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post #8617 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
I'll check with Mark at Meniscus to see if he has any interest in offering a BMR kit.

That sounds awesome Dennis!

What would become of the Salk BMR? Would it still be offered?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8618 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
That sounds awesome Dennis!

What would become of the Salk BMR? Would it still be offered?
Sure--you're basically paying for his beautiful cabinets, and I don't know whether Mark could offer any suitable cabinets. So that may be a show stopper in any event.
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post #8619 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
That's correct. Your Fountek is actually a newer model that Madisound no longer carries. The Fountek can be crossed lower than the RAAL, so it's a better choice for 2-ways with woofers sized over 5".
@PhilharmonicDennis
How would you compare and contrast the performance and qualities of that Fountek with the Raal 64-10 that you have in most of your line-up?
Is there a favorite Fountek you prefer working with?
Thanks!!!
R
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post #8620 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
@PhilharmonicDennis
How would you compare and contrast the performance and qualities of that Fountek with the Raal 64-10 that you have in most of your line-up?
Is there a favorite Fountek you prefer working with?
Thanks!!!
R
The Fountek 3.0 is an excellent tweeter, and it's more robust than the 64-10. But the horizontal dispersion isn't as wide as the RAAL, and it's not quite as open at the top, which is no doubt a trade-off for the lower crossover point. The 3.0 is my favorite of the Fountek line.
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post #8621 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Everyone has space! It’s just can you bring yourself to make the space a woodworking space?
Nope not at all. Small studio apartment. Yes, I could but really, I don't want to buy a bunch of tools and use up more space.

I'd like to see more options like this... which is really tempting.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...aker-kit-pair/


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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
The Fountek 3.0 is an excellent tweeter, and it's more robust than the 64-10. But the horizontal dispersion isn't as wide as the RAAL, and it's not quite as open at the top, which is no doubt a trade-off for the lower crossover point. The 3.0 is my favorite of the Fountek line.
Which is the reason that I would like to get another pair to compare to my RAAL.
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post #8622 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 01:44 PM
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I will say I understand why the BMR was chosen as the midrange driver.



This thing is a beast. Now this is the 3.5” model, but the 3” model is no slouch.

Too bad I’m returning these
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8623 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I will say I understand why the BMR was chosen as the midrange driver.



This thing is a beast. Now this is the 3.5” model, but the 3” model is no slouch.

Too bad I’m returning these
Good heavens. Where did you get that? What's its sensitivity? Why are you returning them? Thanks
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post #8624 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Good heavens. Where did you get that? What's its sensitivity? Why are you returning them? Thanks

81dB sensitivity. Parts Express. I decided to go a different direction with my line array project. I’ll be doing a two way line array instead of a one way. So I’ll be using planar tweeters and larger diameter woofers.

It’s interesting because this one has some sort of problem at 1950hz. I think that’s the area where it converts from bending wave to pistonic motion. Not too sure, maybe you could explain Dennis?

The 81dB sensitivity is also intriguing. But I can clearly see why you stuck with the 3” model over the 3.5” model.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8625 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
81dB sensitivity. Parts Express. I decided to go a different direction with my line array project. I’ll be doing a two way line array instead of a one way. So I’ll be using planar tweeters and larger diameter woofers.

It’s interesting because this one has some sort of problem at 1950hz. I think that’s the area where it converts from bending wave to pistonic motion. Not too sure, maybe you could explain Dennis?

The 81dB sensitivity is also intriguing. But I can clearly see why you stuck with the 3” model over the 3.5” model.
Now I remember--but I didn't remember how relatively large the magnet was. That's an older model. It's less expensive than the 3", and the 81 dB was a killer for my application. The 3" is 86 dB. 1950Hz is the first transition mode. On the 3", you can flatten that out if you use a small chamber completely sealed, and stuffed tightly with Ecocore blue insulation. Nothing else works.
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post #8626 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Now I remember--but I didn't remember how relatively large the magnet was. That's an older model. It's less expensive than the 3", and the 81 dB was a killer for my application. The 3" is 86 dB. 1950Hz is the first transition mode. On the 3", you can flatten that out if you use a small chamber completely sealed, and stuffed tightly with Ecocore blue insulation. Nothing else works.

Ah. I see. If I went with the 3.5” model or any BMR for that reason, could this be fixed with EQ?

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8627 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
Ah. I see. If I went with the 3.5” model or any BMR for that reason, could this be fixed with EQ?
Not really You would need really narrow bands. Maybe something would work sort of, but getting the driver loaded properly is the best solution.
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post #8628 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
Not really You would need really narrow bands. Maybe something would work sort of, but getting the driver loaded properly is the best solution.

Makes sense, thanks Dennis! Even though I’m not using this driver :P

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8629 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 04:20 PM
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Have just received new BMR speakers from
Dennis. Will be setting them up tonight to compare against my monitor 3 ways the Statement Monotors. Hoping there is a significant improvement.
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post #8630 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 04:50 PM
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Sorry about the typo the Statement Monitors by Jim Holts and Curt Campbell. I will be brutally honest about my impressions and how they compare with the BMR Phil’s in my listening room. The Statement Monitors have one tweak as I replaced the Tang Band mid range with the Vifa NE123.

The cost was 390 in drivers, 120 for crossovers, 40 for binding posts and ports 45 for mdf and 230 for the rosewood paperbacksd veneer. So about 825 all in. And a lot of time
And effort lol.

Anyway I will let you guys know my impressions. I’m hoping they are better so I can keep them.
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post #8631 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 05:28 PM
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Sorry about the typo the Statement Monitors by Jim Holts and Curt Campbell. I will be brutally honest about my impressions and how they compare with the BMR Phil’s in my listening room. The Statement Monitors have one tweak as I replaced the Tang Band mid range with the Vifa NE123.

The cost was 390 in drivers, 120 for crossovers, 40 for binding posts and ports 45 for mdf and 230 for the rosewood paperbacksd veneer. So about 825 all in. And a lot of time
And effort lol.

Anyway I will let you guys know my impressions. I’m hoping they are better so I can keep them.
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post #8632 of 8960 Old 05-11-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LADIY View Post
Have just received new BMR speakers from
Dennis. Will be setting them up tonight to compare against my monitor 3 ways the Statement Monotors. Hoping there is a significant improvement.
Congrats!! Just got my e-mail from Dennis in the last day and mine will be shipping out on Monday or Tuesday. Having never owned speakers over $500, I suppose I should expect a huge improvement going to the BMRs.
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post #8633 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 07:45 AM
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Hey @PhilharmonicDennis ,

This might not be the best place for it, but I wanted to pick your brain a bit. I've a pair of old Ed Frias designed AR-DIY loudspeakers. The crossover in them is either the original or Ed's own updated design, honestly can't remember which. I remember all the discussion back in the day on these and how there is a huge suckout at about 3Khz and both you and Danny Ritchie came up with new crossover designs to help fix the issues. I want to update these and just wondering if the drivers themselves are worth the effort and cost of building new crossovers. I'd probably go with yours since I know I like how you "voice" loudspeakers and have never heard any GR products. Otherwise, I'm looking at just repurposing the cabinets and whatever else and go with a totally updated design.

Thanks!

Edit: I also came across a post by @Swerd from 13 years ago on Audiocircle regarding the weakness of the tweeter in the original design. Having come to appreciate the transparency of the ribbon so much, it makes me thing just updating the cross over for these speakers is not the past path forward. Be nice to reuse the Peerless woofer in it, though.

Display: Vizio P55-E1l Pre-pro: Marantz 7703; Amps: Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 1, H/K AVR 520 (direct in to amps); Sources: Sony UBP-X700; X-box 1 S; Technics 1200 Mk II; Win10 PC for digital; Phono Preamp: Emotiva XPS-1; Speakers - LR: Philharmonic BMR LR, Center: Emotiva Airmotiv C2; Surrounds: Wharfedale Reva-2; Rear Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 220; Atmos: TF - Monoprice Alpha 8; TR - BIC VI-38; Subwoofers: dual Rythmik L22s

Last edited by BluesDaddy56; 05-12-2019 at 07:55 AM.
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post #8634 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 09:06 AM
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I think this is the last day for the raising a few bucks for Dennis medical or BMR expenses

https://www.gofundme.com/f/med-expen...-dennis-murphy
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post #8635 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
Hey @PhilharmonicDennis ,

This might not be the best place for it, but I wanted to pick your brain a bit. I've a pair of old Ed Frias designed AR-DIY loudspeakers. The crossover in them is either the original or Ed's own updated design, honestly can't remember which. I remember all the discussion back in the day on these and how there is a huge suckout at about 3Khz and both you and Danny Ritchie came up with new crossover designs to help fix the issues. I want to update these and just wondering if the drivers themselves are worth the effort and cost of building new crossovers. I'd probably go with yours since I know I like how you "voice" loudspeakers and have never heard any GR products. Otherwise, I'm looking at just repurposing the cabinets and whatever else and go with a totally updated design.

Thanks!

Edit: I also came across a post by @Swerd from 13 years ago on Audiocircle regarding the weakness of the tweeter in the original design. Having come to appreciate the transparency of the ribbon so much, it makes me thing just updating the cross over for these speakers is not the past path forward. Be nice to reuse the Peerless woofer in it, though.
Hi

I'm Swerd on another forum. And yes, I built two of those AR-DIY speakers years ago. They were my first DIY efforts. My grown kids have them now.

With those speakers, Dennis showed me what the lack of baffle step compensation (BFC) sounded like. Eventually, he came up with a revised crossover that included some BFC. I built & installed them and, yes that makes for a significant improvement.

The original Peerless dome tweeter had an elevated response, not a peak but a plateau, at higher frequencies. Dennis's crossover included simple but effective correction for that as well. The Peerless sandwich mid-woofer (no longer available) always sounded good, IMO, and makes those speakers worth fixing up.

I'll have to search for Dennis's revised crossover. It was two or three computers ago. When I find it, I'll send it to you, attached to an email.

Edit: Found it. I couldn't attach a PDF doc to an AVS PM, so I sent it by PM on Audioholics to someone named BluesDaddy. Are you him? If so, check your PM on AH. If not send me an email address by PM.
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post #8636 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 10:06 AM
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Congrats!! Just got my e-mail from Dennis in the last day and mine will be shipping out on Monday or Tuesday. Having never owned speakers over $500, I suppose I should expect a huge improvement going to the BMRs.

Mine just arrived yesterday. Only problem is, I have no electronics to drive them yet. I've been out of the audio game for about 15 years. I used to have an okay little system (B&W 610i's, one of Mirage's old bipolar powered subs, Parasound pre and amp, Cambridge audio CD player) but the only part of it which might have survived marriage/kids/sitting in a basement is a beast of a Parasound HCA 1200 ii. So I've ordered a Parasound ZPre3, some cables and stands, all of which should arrive this week. Source will be a newer Onkyo CD player I got last year for headphone listening. Hopefully the amp still works . . . once I get the rest of my stuff I want to test it out on some old junk speakers before risking plugging it into my new BMR's.



I haven't heard them yet, but the speakers are beautiful. The "piano black" is a true piano black, as shiny and smooth as could be, and built like a tank. Even my wife, who has zero interest in high end audio, was super impressed with how they looked.



Once I have everything up and running, I'll report back with my impressions. Really excited to have got my hands on these directly from Dennis. He was, as has been repeated endlessly throughout this thread, incredibly great to deal with. Dennis, so happy to hear you're continuing to recover, and here's to happy and fulfilling times going forward.
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post #8637 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 10:48 AM
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Yes Dennis is great to deal with and the Piano Black is first rate as you can use them as mirrors. Breaking them in now and they sound good. Once broken in, I will start doing critical listening tests to see what I like best with the Statement monitors. We all have different tastes.
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post #8638 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LADIY View Post
Sorry about the typo the Statement Monitors by Jim Holts and Curt Campbell. I will be brutally honest about my impressions and how they compare with the BMR Phil’s in my listening room. The Statement Monitors have one tweak as I replaced the Tang Band mid range with the Vifa NE123.

The cost was 390 in drivers, 120 for crossovers, 40 for binding posts and ports 45 for mdf and 230 for the rosewood paperbacksd veneer. So about 825 all in. And a lot of time
And effort lol.

Anyway I will let you guys know my impressions. I’m hoping they are better so I can keep them.
WOW, I am very much looking forward to your review and comparison of your BMR to the DYI Statement Monitor!
http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/St...s_Monitor.html

One day in the future, when I have time, I wanted to try my hand at a DIY project, and the Statement Monitor is the DYI project I seem to like the best.

Dennis used the Tang midrange in his Phil Slims, and in my WMTW Dennis built and designed center channel, and the Monitor uses the Fountek NeoCd3.0 Tweeter that Dennis also likes, and is in my 4, Dennis created, "custom" 2 way Philharmonitors .

So, both the Fountek and Tang drivers are apparently liked by Dennis, and seem to be favorites in the DYI community.

I would be interested in knowing why:
1. You swapped out the Tang Band mid range with the Vifa NE123
2. Why you didn't swap out the Dayton Audio RS180-4 with a "better" woofer?

One thing I am understanding with all the discussion of the BMR speaker, is that there seems to be a "synergy" among the individual drivers, and that the BMR mid-range, while relatively inexpensive, really seems to be the perfect midrange in Dennis's design, so for the BMR, "more expensive" would not equal "better". And after all, the speaker is named after the mid-range (Balanced Mode Radiator)!

I am sure the same concept exists with Jim Holtz's speaker designs.

I would just think that, with all the time, effort and expense in building the Statement's monitor, I would not mind spending a little more, for a "better" woofer.

You obviously thought out the mid range decision in swapping out the TANG for the Vifa driver, did you consider other options for the Woofer? I am certainly NOT an expert in this matter, but I would think a Satori or Scanspeak or Seas or SB Acoustics or similar "high end" speaker driver manufacturer might be a better option, than the Dayton.

I hate to fall into the "more expensive must be better" trap, but I can't help but wonder. My DYI project is several years away, all things being equal (Just need those winning lottery numbers!!!).

I know that this project will take a significant amount of time for me to build the cabinets, and the crossovers, as I have never done either before, so it will be a learning experience for sure! I would want to make sure that I was using the best drivers I could possibly source.

Again, cannot wait to read about your thoughts comparing the two!

Last edited by BuddTX; 05-12-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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post #8639 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 12:00 PM
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Dyi = diy?
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post #8640 of 8960 Old 05-12-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LADIY View Post
The Statement Monitors have one tweak as I replaced the Tang Band mid range with the Vifa NE123.
Wouldn't you have to adjust the crossover for the new mid? What were you trying to prove upon by switching to the Vifa?
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