Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 296 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8851 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
People move up, move to different places, have life changing events. Most every post I've seen provides a reason why selling. If not you can always ask. Honestly, I've never read a single negative about Salk, Selah, or Philharmonic products.
same here.. never heard anything negative about any of them..

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post #8852 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 07:32 AM
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At this point I'd regularly peruse the Trading Circle at Audio Circles. Salks and Selahs seem to regularly appear and extremely good prices. Even factoring in shipping charges, I think many would be worthwhile.
i'll give it a shot.. i'm kinda checking CL and offer up for local stuff too ... maybe some WD or Dyns will show up near me.. i have a birthday coming up in late aug .. i think i may shoot for treating myself to something then..

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post #8853 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 07:47 AM
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i'll give it a shot.. i'm kinda checking CL and offer up for local stuff too ... maybe some WD or Dyns will show up near me.. i have a birthday coming up in late aug .. i think i may shoot for treating myself to something then..
As an example, these appear to still be currently for sale: Selah Audio Fedele in gloss black cabs. Scanspeak beryllium tweeter; SB Acoustics Satori Mid; SB Acoustics Rohacell Woofer.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164061.0
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post #8854 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BluesDaddy56 View Post
As an example, these appear to still be currently for sale: Selah Audio Fedele in gloss black cabs. Scanspeak beryllium tweeter; SB Acoustics Satori Mid; SB Acoustics Rohacell Woofer.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164061.0
thanks , those are very nice, probably a bit above my pay grade.. i 'm thinking sub $1000 , so it may take a minute or two..i'll just take my time .. but you certainly have the right idea about what i'm leaning towards
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post #8855 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 07:56 AM
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[quote=Lp85253;58132608]
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Originally Posted by D33vious View Post

it has crossed my mind that the mini could have been my white whale...Dennis said they were off to Texas, that's all i saw...
I am the lucky winner. These speakers will replace a pair of unmodified Pioneer BS-22 speakers I use in my home office. I'm looking forward to hearing the upgrade. Thanks again to Dennis.
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post #8856 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
I am the lucky winner. These speakers will replace a pair of unmodified Pioneer BS-22 speakers I use in my home office. I'm looking forward to hearing the upgrade. Thanks again to Dennis.
congrats . i am happily jealous of your new speakers .. enjoy .. i would love to hear how you like them when you have a chance to hear them for a bit.. edit: i think the upgrade will be ear opening

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
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post #8857 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 08:24 AM
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Any recent updates as to if any of the Murphy kits will find their way to diysoundgroup, Meniscus, etc?

Just finished up a speaker build and am contemplating my next one.
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post #8858 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 08:43 AM
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Any recent updates as to if any of the Murphy kits will find their way to diysoundgroup, Meniscus, etc?

Just finished up a speaker build and am contemplating my next one.
I still haven't nailed anything down. I'm waiting to hear from Meniscus about pricing and availability of finished cabinets.
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post #8859 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 08:46 AM
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The sealed Mini-Phils are nice. I pushed some hard stuff through them when I first got them in. They handled those cuts well. I think it was Twelve Jewelz, a Rza cut from the second Gravediggaz album that impressed me most... and taught me a measured respect, as I thought the phase plugs were going to launch and put an eye out, the way those little Zaphs were dancing. Rza's vocals were crystal clear and precise, and somehow those guys kept up with the bass line.



Regardless, Dennis has successfully talked me out of rebuilding mine as ported or converting them to New-Phils... at least for the time being. Per my original plan, mine will be mounted for Rears... and at some point soon, I should have the info to allow me to build my own AAs/AA+s which will give me my .4 Atmos speakers.


Part of my interest in using the Raals for New Phils was to give me the Zaphs to play with as a mid tweeter for a concept build out... that's how impressed I was with their sound and performance in the Mini-Phils. Alas, Madisound sells them, so not a big deal to order them up when I'm ready. Just trying to decide on the appropriate woofer for that. Because of Dennis, I'm a big fan of ScanSpeak, now. (Up top, I may try a Fountek, Raal, or a Be (Scan has one that looks good on paper, and of course there are the SBAcoustics).


Cheers!
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post #8860 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
I still haven't nailed anything down. I'm waiting to hear from Meniscus about pricing and availability of finished cabinets.
I certainly don't speak for all, but not having finished cabinets wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I understand there may be other forces at work here (such as OEM issues with the RAAL) but I'd actually prefer to build a cabinet to the design specs and finish myself - making sawdust is fun. It's been a little while since I've built a Dennis Murphy design - one of the MB variants was the last one, which is still happily singing away in a friends' system. I'd like to build some more!

-Adam
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post #8861 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 11:40 AM
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I certainly don't speak for all, but not having finished cabinets wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I understand there may be other forces at work here (such as OEM issues with the RAAL) but I'd actually prefer to build a cabinet to the design specs and finish myself - making sawdust is fun. It's been a little while since I've built a Dennis Murphy design - one of the MB variants was the last one, which is still happily singing away in a friends' system. I'd like to build some more!

-Adam
(We've been over this a few pages back, but I agree with you)

A "flat pack" option would be fine, but a 100% finished cabinet would just add expense. At that point it's just screwing drivers in and connecting up a crossover.

Unless Dennis is referencing something like the AA+, then in that case I could see an inexpensive (but effective) cabinet being part of the purchase.

Regardless, it'd still be nice to be able to buy and build them as they'll still be a superior speaker to pretty much anything in the price range...prefinished cabinet or not.
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post #8862 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 11:44 AM
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(We've been over this a few pages back, but I agree with you)

A "flat pack" option would be fine, but a 100% finished cabinet would just add expense. At that point it's just screwing drivers in and connecting up a crossover.

Unless Dennis is referencing something like the AA+, then in that case I could see an inexpensive (but effective) cabinet being part of the purchase.

Regardless, it'd still be nice to be able to buy and build them as they'll still be a superior speaker to pretty much anything in the price range...prefinished cabinet or not.
I really can't agree with you guys. There are plenty of people who would be willing to do the assembly but who don't want to, or can't, build or finish off cabinets. But flat packs and parts-only kits would also be available for less money.
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post #8863 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 12:00 PM
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I really can't agree with you guys. There are plenty of people who would be willing to do the assembly but who don't want to, or can't, build or finish off cabinets. But flat packs and parts-only kits would also be available for less money.

I just hate to see the speaker/crossover kit being available for purchase hinge on prefab cabs or not. If people want that, Salk can still build the BMR for them.


I think the amount of people who'd be willing to tackle something like the BMR without a prefab cab would surprise you. I get that you want to make several options available though and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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post #8864 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 12:07 PM
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Options are great. Linkwitz offered a plan-only deal and a couple of companies offered the parts kits. I think Philharmonic flat packs and parts kits would be great.

The only issue I see is that by offering that, you reduce orders for completed speakers, which diminishes quantity benefits there.

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post #8865 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 01:41 PM
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Options are great. Linkwitz offered a plan-only deal and a couple of companies offered the parts kits. I think Philharmonic flat packs and parts kits would be great.

The only issue I see is that by offering that, you reduce orders for completed speakers, which diminishes quantity benefits there.

Not only do the options being discussed represent very different markets, but there may or may not be much overlap between these markets. I'll call Market 1 the do everything DIYer who's set up to mill raw lumber and then cut/assemble/finish cabinets just from plans. Market 2 would be guys who aren't set up for producing the cabinet pieces but could assemble and maybe finish them. Then there's the new, retail speaker buyers. I'd guess the order of Market size from smallest to largest would be Market 1-2-3. Market 1 guys can buy either plans or flat packs, but Market 2 guys can't use plans....they have to have flat packs. Also, I doubt a majority of DIYers in either group would jump at buying $2400 finished BMRs, because the woodworking/building itself and the $$$ savings gained are a significant component of the hobby for them. OTOH, if you're potentially a retail buyer who wants to save some money and exercise your building skills a kit would be a great option.
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post #8866 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 02:01 PM
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[quote=bvk_houtx;58133956]
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
I am the lucky winner. These speakers will replace a pair of unmodified Pioneer BS-22 speakers I use in my home office. I'm looking forward to hearing the upgrade. Thanks again to Dennis.
Congrats! That should be a pretty huge step up for you. We hope you share your thoughts on them after you've had some time listening to them. Enjoy!!
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post #8867 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 02:50 PM
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Not only do the options being discussed represent very different markets, but there may or may not be much overlap between these markets. I'll call Market 1 the do everything DIYer who's set up to mill raw lumber and then cut/assemble/finish cabinets just from plans. Market 2 would be guys who aren't set up for producing the cabinet pieces but could assemble and maybe finish them. Then there's the new, retail speaker buyers. I'd guess the order of Market size from smallest to largest would be Market 1-2-3. Market 1 guys can buy either plans or flat packs, but Market 2 guys can't use plans....they have to have flat packs. Also, I doubt a majority of DIYers in either group would jump at buying $2400 finished BMRs, because the woodworking/building itself and the $$$ savings gained are a significant component of the hobby for them. OTOH, if you're potentially a retail buyer who wants to save some money and exercise your building skills a kit would be a great option.
I'm not sure how all of this will play out. If the finished cabinet quotes are too high, I won't take that path because Jim Salk can supply people with enough funds to get a finished version.
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post #8868 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 03:00 PM
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Not only do the options being discussed represent very different markets, but there may or may not be much overlap between these markets. I'll call Market 1 the do everything DIYer who's set up to mill raw lumber and then cut/assemble/finish cabinets just from plans. Market 2 would be guys who aren't set up for producing the cabinet pieces but could assemble and maybe finish them. Then there's the new, retail speaker buyers. I'd guess the order of Market size from smallest to largest would be Market 1-2-3. Market 1 guys can buy either plans or flat packs, but Market 2 guys can't use plans....they have to have flat packs. Also, I doubt a majority of DIYers in either group would jump at buying $2400 finished BMRs, because the woodworking/building itself and the $$$ savings gained are a significant component of the hobby for them. OTOH, if you're potentially a retail buyer who wants to save some money and exercise your building skills a kit would be a great option.
I like your thought process here, @dbissett . Based on some prior comments though, I wonder (as I have yet to engage on a first-build, myself) about overall complexity. Using the BMR Monitor as the example, you have two distinct issues with the Baffle that raise the complexity level... perhaps considerably...
First is the shape of the BMR Driver and the routing required to flush-mount it. Though doable, this definitely is not the ideal means of learning how to use a router, or knocking those notches out by hand. But one step beyond this is where the extra bit lies: the enclosure for this driver which I would expect wants a bit of routing on the inside of the baffle as well (or perhaps some corner bracing?). Dennis has given us several tips about how essential this enclosure is to the final performance of the driver.


While basic information including just a schematic of the baffle with measurements, and XO schematics of the AA/AA+, Mini-Phil, and New-Phil would suffice for the Market 1 type above... I think a blueprint of the BMR may actually be required for a successful build in the market 1 category. Or access to a BMR that you don't mind tearing down. (I did, I admit, pull the woofer on my Center BMR to examine if I could turn it upright when I build my equipment stand and free up my front wall. I don't want to do more than that, though!)


I suspect also that the port placement in the BMR is very specific and intentional.
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thanks , those are very nice, probably a bit above my pay grade.. i 'm thinking sub $1000 , so it may take a minute or two..i'll just take my time .. but you certainly have the right idea about what i'm leaning towards
If you're OK with powered speakers (and have some pre-outs) and are mildly handy, I'd suggest the JBL 305P MKII. Get a dowel from the hardware store and wedge a couple across the sides to reduce side vibrations from the low bass if you want to play them loud - believe me, I can hear the difference. (I also took some non-drying clay to deaden the port tube on the inside - to not block the air flow.) For not much, they come somewhat close to my New Philharmonitors.

Though, you'll need to buy cables like this.
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If you're OK with powered speakers (and have some pre-outs) and are mildly handy, I'd suggest the JBL 305P MKII. Get a dowel from the hardware store and wedge a couple across the sides to reduce side vibrations from the low bass if you want to play them loud - believe me, I can hear the difference. (I also took some non-drying clay to deaden the port tube on the inside - to not block the air flow.) For not much, they come somewhat close to my New Philharmonitors.

Though, you'll need to buy cables like this.
no pre outs on my set ups,, but that's a neat thought .. thanks
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YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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After living with my Dynaudio and Genelec actives for a couple months, I don't think I will ever go back to passive designs. State-of-the-art DACs are cheap.

That said, I will be giving a passive 3-way a shot in the near future (probably the Elac Uni-Fi when it goes on sale again.) I've had cheap 3-way towers (Polk and Infinity) but never standmount monitor/bookshelves.

The BMR's would have been my first choice (with any second choice being far, far in the distance), but only at Philharmonic prices. I'm jealous of those that were able get them while the getting was good!!

My AAM's have found a good home and I'd love to see an affordable design still be available for those willing to look beyond the Best Buys and Amazons of the world.

And yes I've bought my fair share of speakers from both, so I'm not throwing stones.
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post #8872 of 9293 Old 06-03-2019, 11:26 PM
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After living with my Dynaudio and Genelec actives for a couple months, I don't think I will ever go back to passive designs. State-of-the-art DACs are cheap.

That said, I will be giving a passive 3-way a shot in the near future (probably the Elac Uni-Fi when it goes on sale again.) I've had cheap 3-way towers (Polk and Infinity) but never standmount monitor/bookshelves.
Room correction such as Dirac Live will do for the passives what an internal DSP is doing for actives, and then some. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water

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I wonder (as I have yet to engage on a first-build, myself) about overall complexity. Using the BMR Monitor as the example, you have two distinct issues with the Baffle that raise the complexity level... perhaps considerably...

I don't know anything about the internal structure/complexity of the BMR cabinet, but I assume that if they were offered as a project from scratch that sufficient plans/blueprints/instructions would be provided to make the build successful. Otherwise there just wouldn't be a point to it. This is what Rick Craig at Selah Audio advertises for his kits.....plans to build your own cabinets....and those products appear to be successful. I asked him once if he provides pre-fabed parts for the cabinets and he told me that no, if he were to cut the pieces then most of the work to build the cabinets would be done, and no doubt the "kits" would be sold at much higher prices. I've never seen his cabinet plans but they must be sufficient. Then it's just a matter of having the proper tools and woodworking experience, which is no small matter. I am not a Market 1 woodworker, more like Market 2 with a table saw. I couldn't undertake a scratch build, but a pre-fabed kit would be fine. OTOH, I've got a friend who builds beautiful small pieces of furniture and decorative stuff who's got the tools and skill to do it, no problem. And I'm trying to talk him into a scratch built speaker kit right now. Perfect candidate.
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post #8874 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 08:54 AM
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I don't know anything about the internal structure/complexity of the BMR cabinet, but I assume that if they were offered as a project from scratch that sufficient plans/blueprints/instructions would be provided to make the build successful. Otherwise there just wouldn't be a point to it. This is what Rick Craig at Selah Audio advertises for his kits.....plans to build your own cabinets....and those products appear to be successful. I asked him once if he provides pre-fabed parts for the cabinets and he told me that no, if he were to cut the pieces then most of the work to build the cabinets would be done, and no doubt the "kits" would be sold at much higher prices. I've never seen his cabinet plans but they must be sufficient. Then it's just a matter of having the proper tools and woodworking experience, which is no small matter. I am not a Market 1 woodworker, more like Market 2 with a table saw. I couldn't undertake a scratch build, but a pre-fabed kit would be fine. OTOH, I've got a friend who builds beautiful small pieces of furniture and decorative stuff who's got the tools and skill to do it, no problem. And I'm trying to talk him into a scratch built speaker kit right now. Perfect candidate.
i had friends in the (custom)furniture business (passed away) they were artists with saws.. that's a fine idea , and they might get a kick outta doing something different...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #8875 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 09:04 AM
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i had friends in the (custom)furniture business (passed away) they were artists with saws.. that's a fine idea , and they might get a kick outta doing something different...
I just want to make sure everyone realizes that any BMR kit offerings would include (1) no cabinets, just parts, schematics, and cabinet plans), (2) parts, schematics, and flat packs) (3) parts, schematics, and finished cabinets. Assembled crossovers would also probably be an option.
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post #8876 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 09:12 AM
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I just want to make sure everyone realizes that any BMR kit offerings would include (1) no cabinets, just parts, schematics, and cabinet plans), (2) parts, schematics, and flat packs) (3) parts, schematics, and finished cabinets. Assembled crossovers would also probably be an option.
i assumed this , a good woodworker can research and fill in the blanks easily , i have no personal experience with building speakers , but i would bet my friends could(have) create outstanding cabs easily , with proper specs...

YAMAHA TSR 5790.. front l/r emotiva b1's and /or kef q100's ..BIC v1220.....Emotiva basx10.... ascend cbm 170 center.. polk t15 rears..samsung 55" j620d
bedroom .. YAMAHA r-xv 383... front l/r.. wharfedale 10.1s... ascend cbm 170 center ... Emotiva basx8... samsung ku6300 50 in
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post #8877 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 10:59 AM
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Assembled crossovers I'd want. That's where a lot of the magic happens so I don't want to screw that part up. A PCB with a diagram on it would be fine as well (as soldering is relatively straight forward), but I don't want to have to scratch-build a crossover from a bag of parts and a piece of paper.

I'd probably do the "flat pack" option. At least that'd give me a good template to get creative from.
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post #8878 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 11:20 AM
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Assembled crossovers I'd want. That's where a lot of the magic happens so I don't want to screw that part up. A PCB with a diagram on it would be fine as well (as soldering is relatively straight forward), but I don't want to have to scratch-build a crossover from a bag of parts and a piece of paper.

I'd probably do the "flat pack" option. At least that'd give me a good template to get creative from.
In the research I’ve done, I have really enjoyed seeing the Troels Gravesen site... I like that he shows the schematic and an illustration of the xo layout... usually photos of the finished xos too.

All this talk is making me eager!!! If only I could find a big sack of cash so I could start buying MDF, tools, drivers... wheeee!!!!
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post #8879 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 11:41 AM
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All this talk is making me eager!!! If only I could find a big sack of cash so I could start buying MDF, tools, drivers... wheeee!!!!

And if the woodworking bug bites you in addition to the audio bug, you'll have my sympathy for life as you've known it will be over. You'll know it from the feeling you'll get touring the tool isle at Home Depot, then when you decide you need to live closer to Home Depot and maybe rent space that will hold more/bigger tools it'll be time to get help.
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post #8880 of 9293 Old 06-04-2019, 12:14 PM
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Room correction such as Dirac Live will do for the passives what an internal DSP is doing for actives, and then some. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water
There is much more to actives than just internal DSP chips:

Low line-level signal crossovers with much less distortion, much more power handling, far less power loss, perfect driver time alignment, etc.
Custom-molded enclosures
Custom true bi-amp integration

Also, my Dynaudio and Genelecs are not DSP room-corrected at all, but do have some built-in DSP "tone controls" that I don't use. Dirac Live can't do any of the above so the baby is safe. DSP-based room correction is not the same thing as digital driver/enclosure/crossover optimization (or analog in the case of Neumann/Focal/etc.)
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Speakers: M040 | X18 | UB5
Sub: VTF-2 mk5
Amps: HK 3490 | TSR-7810

Last edited by l0nestar8; 06-04-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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