Philharmonic Audio - Dennis Murphy - Page 299 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8941 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 05:20 PM
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7" Anarchy. Pete Schumacher, among others, likes it.

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/anarchy7-4ohm.html

There's an 8 ohm version too.

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post #8942 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
Agreed, but talk seemed to be turning now towards woofers... (IIRC, we discussed those a little, a few back, as it regards the Mids in some of Jim's speakers. The Accuton Mid came out on top in Dennis' preference. All three of those mids are fairly pricey, of course.)

I’d like to see what Dennis could do with a cheaper Dayton driver!

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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8943 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’d like to see what Dennis could do with a cheaper Dayton driver!

Quite a bit. His last 2 versions of his affordable accuracy monitors had $22 Daytons.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-305
And for what my opinion is worth i love them.
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post #8944 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Boro View Post
Quite a bit. His last 2 versions of his affordable accuracy monitors had $22 Daytons.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-305

And for what my opinion is worth i love them.

Oh yes, I forgot. But I’d like to see what could be done with something like the Reference line.

Those Classic drivers are really good though.

Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #8945 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Boro View Post
Quite a bit. His last 2 versions of his affordable accuracy monitors had $22 Daytons.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--295-305
And for what my opinion is worth i love them.
Waitasec... that's the woofer in the AAMs?

Dennis, you are a wizard. The bass in the AAMs is the best I've heard in a sub-$300 bookshelf speaker.
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post #8946 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 08:18 PM
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The Daytons are no slouches--great bang for the buck, imo.

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post #8947 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
Agreed, but talk seemed to be turning now towards woofers... (IIRC, we discussed those a little, a few back, as it regards the Mids in some of Jim's speakers. The Accuton Mid came out on top in Dennis' preference. All three of those mids are fairly pricey, of course.)
Doesn't this qualify as a woofer? http://www.salksound.com/model.php?m...lk+AT+Monitors

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post #8948 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SunByrne View Post
Waitasec... that's the woofer in the AAMs?

Dennis, you are a wizard. The bass in the AAMs is the best I've heard in a sub-$300 bookshelf speaker.
Those are the woofs, and I paid a lot less than $22. The problem with them is a fairly rough high end and a very steep and early roll off at the top. You have to use a tweeter that can manage a crossover of a maximum of 2000 Hz, and you have to work at the crossover. I had nothing to do with the bass response. That's set by the Parts Express box tuning.
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post #8949 of 9103 Old 06-13-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
I was thinking of asking the same, too...
SBAcoustics seem to be well liked by many right now... I can think of a few using them fairly extensively. In fact, I'd kind of like to take it a step further and include Seas in the question, as well. These seem to be the big three that people look at in terms of "premiums." If there are others, I'd like to know!
Cheers!
I used a 6.5" SB Acoustics in one of my Philharmonitors, and I wasn't very impressed with the bass reach, plus, as with many SB Acoustics and Satori woofers, glitches in the response centered at 1 kHz made it impossible to avoid dips in the upper midrange response using passive crossovers. I've observed the same response issue in the latest Satori 6.5" woofer. The 7.5" Satori somehow achieves the rare combination of decent sensitivity and deep bass reach. But the newer 9.5" Satori couldn't match the bass response of the Scan 8" Revelator. I used the 7.5" and the 9.5" Satori's in 3 ways, where any response glitches above 1 kHz could be suppressed with steep slopes and a low crossover point. Seas is a very reliable brand. I used the ER15 Seas in the Song Towers, and the 6" U16 in a beefed up Song Tower and in a 2-way monitor. The U series combines smooth response with excellent bass reach. We're considering the 8" U22 in the super BMR I've discussed, but I think it would require too large a cabinet. I've used many of the top-of-the-line Seas magnesium woofers. I used the W16 (which is a pricier version of the U16) in the Salk SoundScape Song Tower, and it's pretty amazing.
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post #8950 of 9103 Old 06-14-2019, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Yes. I never really looked at Jim's monitors, much. *blushes
My guess, just doing a visual comparison between the Silk AT Monitor and the Song3 BeAT... (9"w baffle and 9.5", respectively) is that it is the same mid-woofer used on both models, 4". Also, my Raal 70-10s measure 3.5" w which gives a good comparison or judging the woofer dia., not just gauging distance from woofer to the roundover.
Please mind, there is no judgement from me on the usage!!! If a 4" mid-woof works... it works.

I am sold on using the Zaph Audio 5" on a design I'm marinating. I am very impressed by the sound of it overall. As fascinated as I am by premium drivers, I can't spend 1500 per speaker on 3 drivers!
For me, I envision playing with that Zaph as a mid-woofer. I would love to put it with a 64-10 (as it is in the Mini-Phil), and maybe use with one of those with premium woofers... hoping to hit $500 per speaker on driver cost. But that's maybe a winter build for me.
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post #8951 of 9103 Old 06-14-2019, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilharmonicDennis View Post
I used a 6.5" SB Acoustics in one of my Philharmonitors, and I wasn't very impressed with the bass reach, plus, as with many SB Acoustics and Satori woofers, glitches in the response centered at 1 kHz made it impossible to avoid dips in the upper midrange response using passive crossovers. I've observed the same response issue in the latest Satori 6.5" woofer. The 7.5" Satori somehow achieves the rare combination of decent sensitivity and deep bass reach. But the newer 9.5" Satori couldn't match the bass response of the Scan 8" Revelator. I used the 7.5" and the 9.5" Satori's in 3 ways, where any response glitches above 1 kHz could be suppressed with steep slopes and a low crossover point. Seas is a very reliable brand. I used the ER15 Seas in the Song Towers, and the 6" U16 in a beefed up Song Tower and in a 2-way monitor. The U series combines smooth response with excellent bass reach. We're considering the 8" U22 in the super BMR I've discussed, but I think it would require too large a cabinet. I've used many of the top-of-the-line Seas magnesium woofers. I used the W16 (which is a pricier version of the U16) in the Salk SoundScape Song Tower, and it's pretty amazing.
Thanks for your insight, Dennis! Greatly appreciated.

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post #8952 of 9103 Old 06-15-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryanosaur View Post
Yes. I never really looked at Jim's monitors, much. *blushes
My guess, just doing a visual comparison between the Silk AT Monitor and the Song3 BeAT... (9"w baffle and 9.5", respectively) is that it is the same mid-woofer used on both models, 4". Also, my Raal 70-10s measure 3.5" w which gives a good comparison or judging the woofer dia., not just gauging distance from woofer to the roundover.
Please mind, there is no judgement from me on the usage!!! If a 4" mid-woof works... it works.

I am sold on using the Zaph Audio 5" on a design I'm marinating. I am very impressed by the sound of it overall. As fascinated as I am by premium drivers, I can't spend 1500 per speaker on 3 drivers!
For me, I envision playing with that Zaph as a mid-woofer. I would love to put it with a 64-10 (as it is in the Mini-Phil), and maybe use with one of those with premium woofers... hoping to hit $500 per speaker on driver cost. But that's maybe a winter build for me.
This will require a bit more thinking than just slapping a RAAL in there, but to achieve a lower crossover point and cost, with a similar dispersion pattern, why not a good dome (like the HIQUPHON OW1 used by Salk) with waveguide? Not just any waveguide, of course. Since you probably don't have laser measuring devices laying around, you'll need to ensure a good match. I have read good things about the SEOS waveguide. Or, you could cannibalize a pair of JBL 305s...

Crossover between 2000-2500 instead of 3000 to keep a wider dispersion from the 5" and reduce the amount of bad sound thrown to the sides. Delay the woofer to time align with the tweeter and it could be a great speaker. Just some ideas from a non-speaker designer.

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post #8953 of 9103 Old 06-15-2019, 02:19 PM
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The Wharfedale's remind me of when I was a kid/pre-teen and the systems my dad and my friends' dads had. I love 'em for the nostalgia factor alone. The Vapor sound - well, that's a lot of money for a two way. You are so right about value and of Dennis' designs versus this. Heck, I'd put the Salk BMR up against those. Plus, "Vapor" is NOT, IMO, the best name for any technological product. Too much like "vapor ware".

Edit: Just looked at Music Direct's pricing on the Lintons. Only $1200 for a pair. I don't NEED more speakers. I can't USE any more speakers. But DANG, those are tempting.
Steve Guttenberg has posted his impressions of the Lintons, and there is a good user review in the comments as well:


Sorry (not really) for the temptation...

Edit - another:
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post #8954 of 9103 Old 06-18-2019, 09:31 AM
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I have been out of the loop for six months, so it took me more than a week to catch up.

I want to throw in my two cents. First off, I hope you are doing a lot better Dennis. I know how one can let a project get out of control. You realize to late that you end up killing yourself with hardly any monetary compensation just to make a customer happy. Been there done that.

I won't address the cost of the speakers to much. It seems like it was hashed out and a couple of industry guys did a good job breaking it down. I look at a product and if I think the price is appropriate then I will consider it. If not, then I move on. Plenty of choices. In audio, one only has to attend a show like Cedia to see what expensive is. Wisdom seems to win best audio a lot of years, but there systems cost over a hundred grand and up. Some companies buy off the shelf drivers and put an expensive box around them. It is what it is.

On the subject of which direction to go, it looks like Dennis is looking at all options which is great. IIRC Erich once said that he didn't sell a lot of his more expensive audio kits. I would like to see a flat pack version and Erich does seem to excel at that. Hopefully it could be a big seller.

Another alternative for building the boxes in a DIY or completed kit might be Steve Manning. He has posted over on htguide that he is available.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...-New-Adventure
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post #8955 of 9103 Old 06-18-2019, 09:56 AM
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........Another alternative for building the boxes in a DIY or completed kit might be Steve Manning. He has posted over on htguide that he is available.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...-New-Adventure[/QUOTE]

Hi Ericglo Thanks for your post and suggestion for another DIY source. Erich also told me that pricey kits are something of a hard sell. I sure hope I can get things wrapped up fairly quickly, but it takes a long time to get quotes for finished cabinets
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post #8956 of 9103 Old 06-18-2019, 10:09 AM
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No problem.

Steve is doing some designs with Jon Marsh, but he mentioned in that thread that he is open to doing anything. Since he is just starting up, he probably could get begin quickly.
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post #8957 of 9103 Old 06-18-2019, 12:32 PM
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Hi Ericglo Thanks for your post and suggestion for another DIY source. Erich also told me that pricey kits are something of a hard sell. I sure hope I can get things wrapped up fairly quickly, but it takes a long time to get quotes for finished cabinets

I want to build the Carmody Carreras...but part of the problem is finding a good review of them. The parts are top-shelf, but not much online about them at all.

I think this may be part of the problems with the "expensive" DIY kits is the lack of overall knowledge and reviews on them (whereas with something like the PE C-Notes, you can find no less than a 1000 reviews on that). With your BMR's, the word is already out and I think they'd fair a bit better than most.

At the minimum I know your latest AA+ would be a really popular build, especially if it could be had in a less expensive flat-pack.
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post #8958 of 9103 Old 06-18-2019, 03:59 PM
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I want to build the Carmody Carreras...but part of the problem is finding a good review of them. The parts are top-shelf, but not much online about them at all.

I think this may be part of the problems with the "expensive" DIY kits is the lack of overall knowledge and reviews on them (whereas with something like the PE C-Notes, you can find no less than a 1000 reviews on that). With your BMR's, the word is already out and I think they'd fair a bit better than most.

At the minimum I know your latest AA+ would be a really popular build, especially if it could be had in a less expensive flat-pack.
I'm still hoping Parts Express will see the light and offer my upgrade for the BR-1. The stock cabinet is pretty cheap, so I'm not sure there's ll that much to save by assembling new ones.
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post #8959 of 9103 Old 06-18-2019, 07:48 PM
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I want to build the Carmody Carreras...but part of the problem is finding a good review of them. The parts are top-shelf, but not much online about them at all.

I think this may be part of the problems with the "expensive" DIY kits is the lack of overall knowledge and reviews on them (whereas with something like the PE C-Notes, you can find no less than a 1000 reviews on that). .

I owned the Carrera, and absolutely loved them. They are just the right size for a small to medium room and can put out some serious bass. The sound is slightly on the warmer side, and definitely leans more to the 'fun' side than 'neutral'.
If you are after that form factor, go right ahead. You'll not regret building them. But then again, with BMR kit around the corner (hopefully), you might hold off a bit and see how they compare price wise. Carrera is ~$800 for the full kit minus cabinet. Wonder how much the BMR would be.
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post #8960 of 9103 Old 06-19-2019, 09:45 AM
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I owned the Carrera, and absolutely loved them. They are just the right size for a small to medium room and can put out some serious bass. The sound is slightly on the warmer side, and definitely leans more to the 'fun' side than 'neutral'.
If you are after that form factor, go right ahead. You'll not regret building them. But then again, with BMR kit around the corner (hopefully), you might hold off a bit and see how they compare price wise. Carrera is ~$800 for the full kit minus cabinet. Wonder how much the BMR would be.

Thanks for that info on the Carrera. I spoke with Meniscus and they also suggested that it could compete with speakers in a much higher price category. I love the quality drivers in that kit.


And yes, the possibility of the BMR is why I'm hesitating on a somewhat expensive DIY build right now. Although I think I could whip out the Carrera pretty quick as it's not that large and I may pay for the crossover assembly from Meniscus.
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post #8961 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 05:32 AM
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It hasn't hit the website yet but their forums indicate that Ascend is producing their Luna Duo center channel speaker now. I'd think it would mate pretty well with the BMRs. What do you guys think?


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post #8962 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 08:50 AM
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It hasn't hit the website yet but their forums indicate that Ascend is producing their Luna Duo center channel speaker now. I'd think it would mate pretty well with the BMRs. What do you guys think?


David
i would think so .. ask in the ascend thread .. i think the owner might have a bit of insight due to recent research

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i would think so .. ask in the ascend thread .. i think the owner might have a bit of insight due to recent research

Are you suggesting that Dave would veer off course and tune a speaker to sound like a competitor's?


The only thing I've seen over there is Dave trying to develop another "upgrade" for the Sierra-2's incorporating a new "EX" woofer that was co-developed with SEAS that's used with the SEAS White Diamond dome tweeter. I guess he's been testing it out as he commented on the performance characteristics it has vs the standard Sierra-2 woofer. He said when run full range it had "Tower like bass" and that he's never experienced a speaker of its size with that kind of bass.


Let's just say I've got eyes on that thread!
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Are you suggesting that Dave would veer off course and tune a speaker to sound like a competitor's?


The only thing I've seen over there is Dave trying to develop another "upgrade" for the Sierra-2's incorporating a new "EX" woofer that was co-developed with SEAS that's used with the SEAS White Diamond dome tweeter. I guess he's been testing it out as he commented on the performance characteristics it has vs the standard Sierra-2 woofer. He said when run full range it had "Tower like bass" and that he's never experienced a speaker of its size with that kind of bass.


Let's just say I've got eyes on that thread!
no , what i am saying is that it is rumored Dave has recently been listening to the bmr and that he might have some insight as to whether they might match well
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post #8965 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 09:24 AM
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no , what i am saying is that it is rumored Dave has recently been listening to the bmr and that he might have some insight as to whether they might match well
I just passed by my local wordworking/custom cabinetry shop and asked about general pricing for an 18" tall loudspeaker box in 1" thick MDF. He said about $75 each. That doesn't seem too expensive. So you might want to check out local sourcing since kits already come with cabinet plans.
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post #8966 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
no , what i am saying is that it is rumored Dave has recently been listening to the bmr and that he might have some insight as to whether they might match well

Was there a rumor you heard from a reputable source? Not, of course, reading into the comments from Dennis that someone is currently in possession of his BMRs to listen to them. I can speculate as well as the next guy, but occasionally you have to sprinkle in some facts you can back up!


But, if there is any meat to the rumor, that means the BMR is target practice.

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post #8967 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 11:14 AM
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For those of us that use subwoofers, as they are the best for the job, I wish we would give up a bit on the bass extension race in order to give us better efficiency. Or at least give us an option. As it stands, speakers designed for maximum bass extension sacrifice sensitivity, and we don't get much back by crossing to subs, from what I understand. You could see it as holding back the system.

Not sure what happened to your post, but I cannot read it!

HT - 5.2.2 ATMOS With: Klipsch DS Series In-wall/In-ceiling Speakers|2x Rythmik LV12F|Denon AVR-X3300W|Sony UBP-X800|Sony XBR-85X900F|AppleTV 4K
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post #8968 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 11:33 AM
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Not sure what happened to your post, but I cannot read it!
Don't know exactly what's causing it, but the garbage is all s's, and I believe it's an issue with some android phones, and maybe Chrome. They are aware of the problem, but haven't figured it out yet, apparently.

Spoiler!
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post #8969 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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Are you suggesting that Dave would veer off course and tune a speaker to sound like a competitor's?


The only thing I've seen over there is Dave trying to develop another "upgrade" for the Sierra-2's incorporating a new "EX" woofer that was co-developed with SEAS that's used with the SEAS White Diamond dome tweeter. I guess he's been testing it out as he commented on the performance characteristics it has vs the standard Sierra-2 woofer. He said when run full range it had "Tower like bass" and that he's never experienced a speaker of its size with that kind of bass.


Let's just say I've got eyes on that thread!
No idea. Forced desktop mode and trying again.

For those of us that use subwoofers, as they are the best for the job, I wish we would give up a bit on the bass extension race in order to give us better efficiency. Or at least give us an option. As it stands, speakers designed for maximum bass extension sacrifice sensitivity, and we don't get much back by crossing to subs, from what I understand. You could see it as holding back the system in some ways.
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post #8970 of 9103 Old 06-20-2019, 12:05 PM
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No idea. Forced desktop mode and trying again.

For those of us that use subwoofers, as they are the best for the job, I wish we would give up a bit on the bass extension race in order to give us better efficiency. Or at least give us an option. As it stands, speakers designed for maximum bass extension sacrifice sensitivity, and we don't get much back by crossing to subs, from what I understand. You could see it as holding back the system in some ways.

I hear you, and had the same thought, until Dave explained what other benefits there would be using the new woofer:


http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...0877#post60877


Don't know if that link will work or not, but there are other significant benefits to the new woofer.


Sorry, do not mean to hijack this thread.
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Music - 2.1: Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2|Rythmik 12" Sealed Direct Servo Sub|Adcom GFA-5500 With LX-Elite mod by Musical Concepts|Parasound Halo P5|Cambridge Audio ID100 Digital Dock|Audio by Van Alstine Humdinger

Last edited by Eddy_Z; 06-20-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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