**The Official Chane Music and Cinema owner's thread** - Page 142 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4231 of 4687 Old 06-01-2019, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Thinking more about this...users will see the following combinations depending on their equipment:



AVR Speaker Total Slope
12 Sealed/12 24dB
24 Sealed/12 36dB
12 Ported/24 36dB
24 Ported/24 48dB



On top of this, I can switch my sub from 12dB to 24dB if I'm not getting enough upper rolloff.



What becomes clear is if the goal is to have an equal slope on either side of your crossover, all of your speakers should be the same type. That means if I have a 24dB/oct AVR, I want ported speakers. Am I interpreting this correctly?



However, since I don't run my speakers full range, choosing my own crossover instead, speaker type may not matter. So, all that should matter is my AVR at 24dB and my subs should be set to the matching 24dB. Right? I think I've logic'd my way through this, and having bass reflex mains and sealed surrounds shouldn't produce a conflict.


Sealed is actually going to be slightly more simple (with the word 'optimal' being a little too plain for the discussion) and easier to integrate for loudspeakers on the upper end of a crossover, regardless of the other mains/center/surrounds used.

For an effects loudspeaker that has minimal bass demands below 100hz, sealed is a great way to get there with a slightly more accurate impulse response to boot (as opposed to a similarly sized vented loudspeaker or even a PR).

As for your subs and mains, it's rarely as simple as just picking a number. Even if that number is theoretically ideal. Try everything. Measure with REW and rephase if possible. And LISTEN.


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post #4232 of 4687 Old 06-01-2019, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rinman77 View Post
I hang my 2.4's from the ceiling in order to keep them safe from the little ones.


I gotta say that is slick as h$ll.


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post #4233 of 4687 Old 06-01-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mpk1970 View Post
Nothing the Ascends can do with stands that Chane's cant or any other speaker
@audiofreak38 had both Chane's A2.4 and Ascends
Phil liked the Chane's a lot more and has been very detailed as to the reason why

Both good speakers but according to Phil Chanes more lively, bigger soundstage, all around better
Good luck in your decision
Thanks Mike for the mention. It is very true that I did much prefer the Chane A2.4's to the Ascend 340 SE's. Imaging and soundstage was just better and there was a sweetness to the sound that engaged me more. Neither the A2.4's and/or the 340SE's were bright. But, the 340 SE's were just a frazzle if you will more forward. Some think that the 340 SE's were a bit bright. I did not. I also liked the finish on the 340 SE's better than that on the A2.4's. However, the A2.4's across the front produced one of the most cohesive front-stages that I have ever owned to date! Not to mention, the A2.4's can get absurdly loud w/o ever even breaking a sweat. At the end of the day, the A2.4's are simply on another level than that of the 340 SE' inmho. Just note that I am not the only member here that has owned both the A2.4's and the 340 SE's. I simply can not recommend the A2.4's enough. Best wishes to @Noxer . Hope this helps.


Cheers,

Phil

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post #4234 of 4687 Old 06-01-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
As for your subs and mains, it's rarely as simple as just picking a number. Even if that number is theoretically ideal. Try everything. Measure with REW and rephase if possible. And LISTEN.
Years ago I settled on the 24dB setting on the Rythmiks as it just plain sounds better
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post #4235 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post
...the A2.4's across the front produced one of the most cohesive front-stages that I have ever owned to date!
Thanks for that, Phil, because it's the end result we've always wanted. After specific theoretical or technical tributaries are explored, if the sound engages then the plan has worked. We've been targeted by various bias and noise over the years but the plan hasn't changed.

If you enjoy that sound you may be interested to learn that adding acoustical size and technical depth to it expands it. Hopefully you can sample some of those new directions too.

Thanks again. The effect is the reason to do this.

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post #4236 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Years ago I settled on the 24dB setting on the Rythmiks as it just plain sounds better
Makes sense: The classic symmetrical LR4 function delivers a predictably flat, linear response while higher, asymmetrical summations can ripple.
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post #4237 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post
Thanks for that, Phil, because it's the end result we've always wanted. After specific theoretical or technical tributaries are explored, if the sound engages then the plan has worked. We've been targeted by various bias and noise over the years but the plan hasn't changed.

If you enjoy that sound you may be interested to learn that adding acoustical size and technical depth to it expands it. Hopefully you can sample some of those new directions too.

Thanks again. The effect is the reason to do this.
Thanks a bunch Jon. Hope all is well. I also hope to get around to trying the new "L" series. However, right now I have been stepping back a lot. Been a bit burnt-out. That is why I have my Wharfies up for sale. Anyways, I will be in touch when the time is right. Having (3) A2.4's across the front was magical to say the least. Can't even imagine what the all new "L" series is going to bring. Based upon your post it sounds like quite a lot! Honestly, I am not surprised at all. Just saying..........


Cheers,

Phil
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post #4238 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 05:36 PM
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So looking for some advise. I previously owned a set of Arc-2s for my LCR and Arc-1s for my rears in my old theater. We sold the house and the theater ended up part of the deal. I really enjoyed the speakers. I had them setup vertically behind a spandex acoustically transparent screen and they had about 2 ft clear space behind them.

I am in the planning stages for a new media room in a house we are currently building. Last system was 7.1, looking to go 7.2.4 for the new setup. Room will be around 17x13x9. I am trying to figure out what speakers to go with. I am leaning towards 2.4s across the front and the new 4.4s for the side and back. But also wondering if I should wait and consider the L series? I have a feeling they will be a little pricier than I was hoping for, and they wont have the killer planar tweeter. Also if I do go 2.4s can the left and right be placed horizontally? I want to fit them under the screen and based on space they would fit better horizontally. Also these will be pretty close to the front wall, how much clearance do i need to not effect performance?
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post #4239 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 05:48 PM
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I wouldn't fret the loss of the planar tweeter. If Jon is making a tweeter decision, it's because it perfectly fits the system. Sometimes, that means domes are preferred - check the beryllium domes in Revel's top speakers. No planars or ribbons to be found.
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post #4240 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I wouldn't fret the loss of the planar tweeter. If Jon is making a tweeter decision, it's because it perfectly fits the system. Sometimes, that means domes are preferred - check the beryllium domes in Revel's top speakers. No planars or ribbons to be found.


While the planar is a truly excellent device, the tweeter used in the L Series is also excellent.

The L Series, as a whole, is a cut above the .5 A Line.


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post #4241 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by marjen View Post
So looking for some advise. I previously owned a set of Arc-2s for my LCR and Arc-1s for my rears in my old theater. We sold the house and the theater ended up part of the deal. I really enjoyed the speakers. I had them setup vertically behind a spandex acoustically transparent screen and they had about 2 ft clear space behind them.



I am in the planning stages for a new media room in a house we are currently building. Last system was 7.1, looking to go 7.2.4 for the new setup. Room will be around 17x13x9. I am trying to figure out what speakers to go with. I am leaning towards 2.4s across the front and the new 4.4s for the side and back. But also wondering if I should wait and consider the L series? I have a feeling they will be a little pricier than I was hoping for, and they wont have the killer planar tweeter. Also if I do go 2.4s can the left and right be placed horizontally? I want to fit them under the screen and based on space they would fit better horizontally. Also these will be pretty close to the front wall, how much clearance do i need to not effect performance?
I wouldn't lay my mains horizontally. Can't you get an AT screen or is that already bought? Usually twice the port length is the normal recommend I hear for distance from a boundary with a ported speaker.
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post #4242 of 4687 Old 06-02-2019, 11:43 PM
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While the planar is a truly excellent device, the tweeter used in the L Series is also excellent.

The L Series, as a whole, is a cut above the .5 A Line.
Will there be a 3-way bookshelf or stand-mount?

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post #4243 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 02:49 AM
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Will there be a 3-way bookshelf or stand-mount?
Not in the L series so far. A good 2-way is tough to beat and only the largest models have called for a middle driver.

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post #4244 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 04:57 AM
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As for your subs and mains, it's rarely as simple as just picking a number. Even if that number is theoretically ideal. Try everything. Measure with REW and rephase if possible. And LISTEN.
That is great advice. There are so many variables, its tough to have a universal application. I've tried every combination, and although I liked the A1.4s sealed for music(and they measured better), I felt like I was hampering them for dynamic movie playback. My solution was to open the ports, set the crossover higher, and seal the subs. With EQ and enough amp power its easy enough to shape the low end response.

At he end of the day though, the overall biggest effect came from rearranging the room from the short end to the long end to accommodate a new projector. I wish I would have done it sooner. The room always has its way, so we have to optimize within its constraints, try everything, and compromise where need be.

Now its time to bring on the L3s.

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post #4245 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 06:41 AM
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I wouldn't lay my mains horizontally
Is there a reason you can't lay the 2.4s horizontally? If I went vertically the would be very low in the room. sideways would allow to sit much higher and closer to ear level.
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post #4246 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 09:49 AM
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At he end of the day though, the overall biggest effect came from rearranging the room from the short end to the long end to accommodate a new projector. I wish I would have done it sooner. The room always has its way, so we have to optimize within its constraints, try everything, and compromise where need be.
Are you saying your sound is better now, even though your seats will be close to a back wall?

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post #4247 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 02:17 PM
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No I moved it the other way, so there's more room to the back wall, which allowed better placement of the subs and MBM. I know it's not surprising that it's better that way, but my point was sometimes it's the simple things that have the greatest impact over settings and configuration.
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post #4248 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 02:47 PM
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No I moved it the other way, so there's more room to the back wall, which allowed better placement of the subs and MBM. I know it's not surprising that it's better that way, but my point was sometimes it's the simple things that have the greatest impact over settings and configuration.
Ahh yes. There are two ways to interpret your post.

I also set mine up going the long way so there is a greater distance to the back wall, and so I have room to move the seats forward/backward to get out of bass nulls.
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post #4249 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 03:16 PM
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Is there a reason you can't lay the 2.4s horizontally? If I went vertically the would be very low in the room. sideways would allow to sit much higher and closer to ear level.
I never said you couldn't. I said I wouldn't. A horizontal MTM is a compromise of the speakers performance based on the reality that most all users don't have the ability to run 3 vertical LCR's along their front soundstage so a horizontal center speaker is the answer. For your left and right main stereo soundstage it's best to run any MTM vertical for the best performance. Subwoofers with a single bass driver you can turn any which way and still keep its maximum performance capabilities. Multiple drivered speakers not so much.
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post #4250 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 05:02 PM
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Drivers will interfere with each other. In the case of 3 drivers in a line, the outside drivers will interfere with the inside driver and lead to holes in the sound field as experienced by listeners as they move their head.

For a vertical speaker, the inconsistencies will be evident when standing up and sitting back down. If you lay that speaker on its side, the dispersion pattern will follow, and the inconsistencies will be evident as a listener moves their head side to side.

Click image for larger version

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This can be alleviated by giving the tweeter an offset.

Click image for larger version

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Some crossover design techniques can also mitigate the effect, but not completely.
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post #4251 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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**The Official Chane Music and Cinema owner's thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Drivers will interfere with each other. In the case of 3 drivers in a line, the outside drivers will interfere with the inside driver and lead to holes in the sound field as experienced by listeners as they move their head.



For a vertical speaker, the inconsistencies will be evident when standing up and sitting back down. If you lay that speaker on its side, the dispersion pattern will follow, and the inconsistencies will be evident as a listener moves their head side to side.



Attachment 2575514



This can be alleviated by giving the tweeter an offset.



Attachment 2575516



Some crossover design techniques can also mitigate the effect, but not completely.


Eh. Crossover strategy plays a simply enormous role. Phase and time behavior rule the day here.

Done right, and the nulls become so subtle that an inexperienced listener likely won't notice them. As in the maximum null is 5dB or less at 20+ degrees off axis. That's a 40 degree arc. Which is typically the entire couch for the average 7-14ft listening distance.

Vertical is preferred. But, especially for center use, horizontal is very usable.

Oh and I'll stake my flag in the ground right now on this point: as long as the acoustical driver center to center spacing is acceptable, the arrangement of the drivers on the baffle in the X/Y axes isn't nearly as important as gaining physical offset and time alignment through driver depth offset (Z axis) in terms of really nailing a crossover.


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post #4252 of 4687 Old 06-03-2019, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Eh. Crossover strategy plays a simply enormous role. Phase and time behavior rule the day here.

Done right, and the nulls become so subtle that an inexperienced listener likely won't notice them. As in the maximum null is 5dB or less at 20+ degrees off axis. That's a 40 degree arc. Which is typically the entire couch for the average 7-14ft listening distance.

Vertical is preferred. But, especially for center use, horizontal is very usable.

Oh and I'll stake my flag in the ground right now on this point: as long as the acoustical driver center to center spacing is acceptable, the arrangement of the drivers on the baffle in the X/Y axes isn't nearly as important as gaining physical offset and time alignment through driver depth offset (Z axis) in terms of really nailing a crossover.


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I stand corrected.
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This is the poster on the wall in Jon's office:



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It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #4254 of 4687 Old 06-04-2019, 09:49 AM
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Oh and I'll stake my flag in the ground right now on this point: as long as the acoustical driver center to center spacing is acceptable, the arrangement of the drivers on the baffle in the X/Y axes isn't nearly as important as gaining physical offset and time alignment through driver depth offset (Z axis) in terms of really nailing a crossover.
Alright Buford T, laying some serious zero lobing error wokeness on us.
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post #4255 of 4687 Old 06-04-2019, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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**The Official Chane Music and Cinema owner's thread**

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Originally Posted by Vergiliusm View Post
Alright Buford T, laying some serious zero lobing error wokeness on us.


Every non-coincident driver array will lobe. Period. But what that translates to in real world, acoustical terms varies WIDELY.

I think it's only proper to couch lobing effects in what people have actually heard from them in real terms, in the real world, with real listening material. I've heard awful to amazing, depending on driver spacing, driver offset, driver selection, and crossover design choices.

People throw the word around here on AVS and Reddit. But nobody seems to be able to make the jump to 'explaining to the jury' what it means for what people will actually hear. Not what theory says they SHOULD hear, but what they DO hear.

It's time elevate the discourse a notch and really do some listening of our own.


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post #4256 of 4687 Old 06-04-2019, 07:16 PM
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Updated some of my cables to clean things up and improve aesthetics.

I decided to try the new Monolith Speaker Cables from Monoprice, and they are very nice for $40/pair. Cable pants, nice terminations, and tech flex.





I also upgraded my power cable on my Parasound amp, I didn’t need a 6’ cable and wanted something that looks nice. Found a cool cable from WAudio on Amazon that’s very well built and beefy looking.

Here’s a shot of my little Chane stereo setup, I never get tired of the A1.4s, they punch well above their price point and that HCA-1500a really lets them shine.



I think I’d like to get a nicer audio rack next, this is just a cheap table from Amazon for the time being.

If anyone needs a good stand for the Chanes, I highly recommend the Monoprice Monolith stands, great build quality and aesthetics.


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post #4257 of 4687 Old 06-05-2019, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Updated some of my cables to clean things up and improve aesthetics.

I decided to try the new Monolith Speaker Cables from Monoprice, and they are very nice for $40/pair. Cable pants, nice terminations, and tech flex.





I also upgraded my power cable on my Parasound amp, I didn’t need a 6’ cable and wanted something that looks nice. Found a cool cable from WAudio on Amazon that’s very well built and beefy looking.

Here’s a shot of my little Chane stereo setup, I never get tired of the A1.4s, they punch well above their price point and that HCA-1500a really lets them shine.



I think I’d like to get a nicer audio rack next, this is just a cheap table from Amazon for the time being.

If anyone needs a good stand for the Chanes, I highly recommend the Monoprice Monolith stands, great build quality and aesthetics.



Great looking setup!

I've tried a few power cables but ended up finding that this one lowered my noise floor the most, regardless of the power conditioner used:

https://thesoundparcel.co/collection...=2368587759642

The fully shielded 14awg cable is stout but not too stiff. Just all around solid performance. Good quality connectors, too.


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post #4258 of 4687 Old 06-05-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Great looking setup!

I've tried a few power cables but ended up finding that this one lowered my noise floor the most, regardless of the power conditioner used:

https://thesoundparcel.co/collection...=2368587759642

The fully shielded 14awg cable is stout but not too stiff. Just all around solid performance. Good quality connectors, too.


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Thanks! That looks like a solid power cable, and I like that’s made in the US. The one I have is 10awg and uses similar medical grade connectors.

Still on the hunt for a preamp, id like to find one of the matching Jon Curl preamps, but they are hard to come by.
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post #4259 of 4687 Old 06-05-2019, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Thanks! That looks like a solid power cable, and I like that’s made in the US. The one I have is 10awg and uses similar medical grade connectors.

Still on the hunt for a preamp, id like to find one of the matching Jon Curl preamps, but they are hard to come by.


I actually migrated from a Carol 10awg cable i made (unshielded) with the same connectors. All upside so far.

Take a look at Parasound C1/C2 Halo on fleabay. Also stuff from Anthem is a solid bet (AVM30/50 Etc). It's multi channel, but the DAC chips are REALLY well integrated and they really bring the sound quality game.


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post #4260 of 4687 Old 06-05-2019, 08:55 AM
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How did you measure your noise floor?
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