**The Official Chane Music and Cinema owner's thread** - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1381 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post

That has been a concern for coaxials in the past, but it's not the case with this design. And I stand by my statement that they will outperform the majority of speakers under $2k, especially for home theater use.
It's not up for debate. It's a physical limitation of the coaxial driver's inherent design. As the mid-range cone travels through its excursion, this modulates the "horn" that loads the tweeter. No way around it. The modulation of the mid-range is a completely unavoidable design constraint.

Steps can be taken to mitigate this modulation issue, by using a three way design and pushing the crossover between the woofers and the mid-range higher than is nominally preferable. This reduces the modulation by limiting mid-range excursion. However, this now introduces mid-range beaming due to the large diameter of the mid driver, which harms imaging and can add on-axis spectral tilt. One can then reduce the mid driver diameter to reduce beaming and enhance imaging, but then one loses all inherent benefits of added efficiency and this also pushes the tweeter crossover higher than is typically preferred because the reduced diameter of the horn necessitates a higher tweeter crossover point due to the effective horn loading frequency occurring higher in the frequency spectrum.

KEF uses the latter and has perfected it as much as it can be, in my opinion. I enjoy the sound of the LS50 (which sounds amazing, I might add) and the Q500 was also very pleasing. But, as with all designs, there are tradeoffs being made.

In a two way coaxial design, not much can be done. It's just Newtonian physics.

Seeing that this is the CHANE owners thread, if you want to discuss this more, we can converse via PM or you can discuss it in the RA thread.

EDIT: the Radian drivers I heard were typically bi-amped and actively crossed over via the internal dsp of the crown amps. Can't get a better crossover than that.
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post #1382 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 02:18 PM
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Well, it looks like there's no way around to getting the sound I want without getting a powered sub. In just going to have to use extreme restraint I guess. It's a two story unit with neighbors to the left and right of me only. Anyway, I've decided that my setup will be 2 a3rx-c towers and a a2rx-c center with an svs pb1000 sub. Does this sound like a promising setup?
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The Polks have exaggerated bass. Not necessarily more, but a bass tilt.

Mlgreen, The Chane A3rx-c towers with the A2rx-c would be more than adequate.
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You're attempting to compare a self powered 15" ported subwoofer, which is corner loaded, to a free standing, non powered, dual 5.25" compact tower?

Why are you still posting in this thread? You're just confusing the guy.

The A3rx-c produces a ridiculous amount of bass for a compact tower and is more than enough for mlgreen's stated uses.

Besides, my HSU vtf-15h routinely punches me in the kidneys. That's not the point.
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post #1383 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

That x4100 AVR would be vastly superior to what you have now and the x3200 would be a large improvement as well. Give Jon a call and I'm sure he'll get you squared away.
Thanks for the info. Did you mean either model will be superior in terms of their amp design? I was under the impression that more watts per channel (unless it's a lot more) won't make much of a difference in terms of how loud the AVR can go without clipping.

Thanks!
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post #1384 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
It's not up for debate. It's a physical limitation of the coaxial driver's inherent design. ... In a two way coaxial design, not much can be done. It's just Newtonian physics.
Now add delay errors from displacement and acoustical reflections in or at the passband from horns that are too small. It takes a big horn to correctly meet a big midbass driver.

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Seeing that this is the CHANE owners thread, if you want to discuss this more, we can converse via PM ...
Speaker classes matter, even regardless of brand. Apples and Hondas contrast more than they compare...

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EDIT: the Radian drivers I heard were typically bi-amped and actively crossed over via the internal dsp of the crown amps. Can't get a better crossover than that.
Or a higher cost option for partially fixing something.
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post #1385 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mlgreen View Post
Well, it looks like there's no way around to getting the sound I want without getting a powered sub. In just going to have to use extreme restraint I guess. It's a two story unit with neighbors to the left and right of me only. Anyway, I've decided that my setup will be 2 a3rx-c towers and a a2rx-c center with an svs pb1000 sub. Does this sound like a promising setup?
You may want to look at their sealed sub, in a position very close to your seated listening position. This means you can run a vastly lower overall gain setting on the sub but achieve the same impact and even more headroom.
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post #1386 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by joegeeze View Post
Thanks for the info. Did you mean either model will be superior in terms of their amp design? I was under the impression that more watts per channel (unless it's a lot more) won't make much of a difference in terms of how loud the AVR can go without clipping.

Thanks!
More is better. But there are lots of other considerations. Many times, AVRs within a range will have virtually identical amp sections and just vary other feature sets. I've used the x4100 at a friend's house and liked it, so hence my preference for that.

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post #1387 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
You may want to look at their sealed sub, in a position very close to your seated listening position. This means you can run a vastly lower overall gain setting on the sub but achieve the same impact and even more headroom.
Thanks for the reply. One more question, the A2rx-c center would be used in the top shelf of my TV stand. With it being a rear ported design, would that be a problem?
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post #1388 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. One more question, the A2rx-c center would be used in the top shelf of my TV stand. With it being a rear ported design, would that be a problem?
Np. While not ideal, you can plug the rear port and it won't be an issue. The charcoalester plug is included with each speaker.

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post #1389 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 04:42 PM
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Np. While not ideal, you can plug the rear port and it won't be an issue. The charcoalester plug is included with each speaker.
So setting the speakers to small, then plugging the hole shouldn't have any effect? Just curious as I have a set of A5rx-c's and a A2rx-c on order. My A2 will be on a shelf almost touching the wall behind it.

Thanks
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post #1390 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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So setting the speakers to small, then plugging the hole shouldn't have any effect? Just curious as I have a set of A5rx-c's and a A2rx-c on order. My A2 will be on a shelf almost touching the wall behind it.

Thanks
Correct.

If you can select your crossover frequency independently for each channel, I'd experiment with a 90 or 100hz setting for the center and a 60-80hz setting for the front L+R. AVRs that will allow that, I have seen will sometimes steer the bass from the center to the main L+R, and then to the subwoofer as frequency descends. Cheaper AVRs will simply shunt all material under the crossover frequency to the subwoofer.
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post #1391 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 07:10 PM
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What sonic differences would it be with the port plugged on the center channel as opposed to running it in its normal ported setup?
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post #1392 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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What sonic differences would it be with the port plugged on the center channel as opposed to running it in its normal ported setup?
Inside of a confined space like that, you'd have all kinds of unpredictable resonances bouncing around inside the piece of furniture with the open port. Beyond that, I bet that natural resonances of furniture would be more likely to be physically excited by the mass of air resonating in the port itself (it's not a small port, either). So, bottom line, with the port open it would muddy the sound and reduce clarity more than it would with the port closed.

Now, you may prefer it one way over the other, as the differences will be less noticeable at lower volume levels. I would strongly rec starting your experimentation with it closed.

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post #1393 of 4724 Old 12-28-2015, 08:05 PM
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Correct.

If you can select your crossover frequency independently for each channel, I'd experiment with a 90 or 100hz setting for the center and a 60-80hz setting for the front L+R. AVRs that will allow that, I have seen will sometimes steer the bass from the center to the main L+R, and then to the subwoofer as frequency descends. Cheaper AVRs will simply shunt all material under the crossover frequency to the subwoofer.
Thanks for the info
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post #1394 of 4724 Old 12-31-2015, 03:42 PM
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Regarding the A3RX-C floorstander, how far from the wall do they have to be? I can give then roughly a foot at most, is that enough room for the port to breath?
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post #1395 of 4724 Old 12-31-2015, 05:06 PM
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Yes, my A3s are about18" away and sound very good; happy New Year all!!!


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post #1396 of 4724 Old 01-01-2016, 07:17 AM
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Has anyone closed the port on one A3 and left the other open? I have one A3 caddy corner with a curtain behind it, so I figure it might make more sense to close that port and calibrate the sub appropriately. What do you think?
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post #1397 of 4724 Old 01-01-2016, 07:54 AM
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I have not & don't think I would. In ur example, close both ports sounds best option


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post #1398 of 4724 Old 01-02-2016, 09:19 PM
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Looks like there are a lot of experts floating around so wanted to throw a question that I'm sure has been asked a million times in the thread already so I apologize in advance.

I'm building out a new HT space in a finished basement. Recently purchased an LG OLED 65EF9500 and am now looking at stands (likely going with a 6 compartment unit from Salamander) and speakers (why I'm here). I've been eyeing Chane's for a while now for this use but will likely piecemeal it to save face with the wife after spending so much already. I was looking to get an A2rx-c for the center, and then 2x A5rx-c's for L/R and stop at that for now. Later on, get the two rears (A2's or A1's) and a sub, this would likely happen later this year, after the wife has forgotten about the expenses . I've already made the purchase of a Denon x2200w so that's kind of already set, so hopefully it will suffice. The space itself has a viewing area that's much wider than it is deep. We sit at about 10' from the TV but the space is over 30' wide.

Anyway, my main usage is movies/games/broadcast TV with music bringing up the rear. I don't see this changing anytime soon, but it might, who knows. The A2 is going to go inside the Salamander stand which I've read other people talk about this being okay in this thread but not necessarily preferred. The A5's will probably be placed as close to the wall as possible, the rear of the speaker being maybe 6-8" from the wall. Is this going to kill me? Should I save money and go with A3's? The HT area will double as a play area for children in the daytime, so I can't realistically take over the space. It still has to be livable.

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post #1399 of 4724 Old 01-06-2016, 09:03 AM
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Nothing? I guess the only question I'm really most concerned about is how much will I lose if I went with A3's instead of A5's to save money on the L/R.
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post #1400 of 4724 Old 01-06-2016, 09:13 AM
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Maverick... I have pair of Chane A3's & A2 center channel and its excellent combo. I've been told by a few Chane experts including the owner that some prefer the A3 to the A5 for Music. For Home Theatre may be a wash. In Combo with a Sub (I have Outlaw X12) all low frequency's go to sub anyway. The A3 is a nice simple design with quality mid-woofers and flat plane tweeter and you can fill the bottom of stand with sand or small pebbles to increase the bass a bit.
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post #1401 of 4724 Old 01-06-2016, 09:33 AM
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If you've only listened to the A3, you won't miss the A5's.

All I know is the A5's sound much better for music then my ex A3's. I don't even know why people say the A3 are more musical when the A5 sound more alive than the A3's.

If you have the money go for the A5's. If not the A3's will do fine.
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post #1402 of 4724 Old 01-06-2016, 01:42 PM
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Ok Gus; I never heard the A5s and my A3 purchase was B stock so was great value. And this if for my 2nd system at vacation home. Main 1st floor system using just purchased Polk LSiM703s (new open box for almost 50% off) which sound sweet & can also rock


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post #1403 of 4724 Old 01-06-2016, 02:14 PM
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Ok Gus; I never heard the A5s and my A3 purchase was B stock so was great value. And this if for my 2nd system at vacation home. Main 1st floor system using just purchased Polk LSiM703s (new open box for almost 50% off) which sound sweet & can also rock


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LSiM are sweet. I couldn't afford them so I went with the Chanes.
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post #1404 of 4724 Old 01-06-2016, 04:31 PM
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I am patiently waiting for my A5's & A2 to arrive. Hopefully it will be mid month and hopefully I'm not traveling on business.
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post #1405 of 4724 Old 01-07-2016, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
If you've only listened to the A3, you won't miss the A5's.

All I know is the A5's sound much better for music then my ex A3's. I don't even know why people say the A3 are more musical when the A5 sound more alive than the A3's.

If you have the money go for the A5's. If not the A3's will do fine.
[emphasis mine]

I agree.

I don't think anybody has said the A3rx-c is more musical than the A5rx-c. What has been said, and what I've said, is that the A3rx-c is a much more forgiving design wrt music that is less than perfectly recorded (which is most material available today). The A5rx-c was designed to reveal max detail....and when the source material is flawed, sometimes the detail which is revealed is crappy source material. The A3rx-c is more forgiving and, though it is slightly less revealing than the A5rx-c, it is also more forgiving. I don't know that I would categorize it as being less alive than the A5rx-c, but to each his own.

FWIW, I've never had my wife tell me to turn the A3rx-c down during movies...can't say the same for the A5rx-c. This is not the fault of the A5rx-c, but it highlights the differences between the two models well. With the simplified crossover of the rx-c tuning, the A3rx-c closed a portion of the gap between it and the A5rx-c (which did not benefit as much from the rx-c revision, as a percentage).

I agree that, if one can afford them, to go with the A5rx-c's. However, unless one is incorporating critical music listening into their routine, most would be extremely happy with the A3rx-c.

I have also found that the A5rx-c begins to really shine after about 50-100 hours of break-in (and mostly levels-off after that)...and that the A3rx-c's provided increasing amounts of detail all the way up to 150 hours.
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post #1406 of 4724 Old 01-07-2016, 12:02 PM
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[emphasis mine]

I agree.

I don't think anybody has said the A3rx-c is more musical than the A5rx-c. What has been said, and what I've said, is that the A3rx-c is a much more forgiving design wrt music that is less than perfectly recorded (which is most material available today). The A5rx-c was designed to reveal max detail....and when the source material is flawed, sometimes the detail which is revealed is crappy source material. The A3rx-c is more forgiving and, though it is slightly less revealing than the A5rx-c, it is also more forgiving. I don't know that I would categorize it as being less alive than the A5rx-c, but to each his own.

FWIW, I've never had my wife tell me to turn the A3rx-c down during movies...can't say the same for the A5rx-c. This is not the fault of the A5rx-c, but it highlights the differences between the two models well. With the simplified crossover of the rx-c tuning, the A3rx-c closed a portion of the gap between it and the A5rx-c (which did not benefit as much from the rx-c revision, as a percentage).

I agree that, if one can afford them, to go with the A5rx-c's. However, unless one is incorporating critical music listening into their routine, most would be extremely happy with the A3rx-c.

I have also found that the A5rx-c begins to really shine after about 50-100 hours of break-in (and mostly levels-off after that)...and that the A3rx-c's provided increasing amounts of detail all the way up to 150 hours.
Thanks so much for this thorough comparison. Based on my usage being primarily movies/TV, it would seem like the A3's will be more than sufficient.

It also probably means the 3.0 gets to 5.1 much sooner.
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post #1407 of 4724 Old 01-07-2016, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick0984 View Post
Thanks so much for this thorough comparison. Based on my usage being primarily movies/TV, it would seem like the A3's will be more than sufficient.

It also probably means the 3.0 gets to 5.1 much sooner.
No prob. The good news, is that you simply can't go wrong with either. If somebody has a distinct bent toward 2-channel (or 2.1) listening with hi-res music, using quality sources and a quality signal chain, the A5rx-c would be worth the money. However, absent this strong bent toward 2-channel music listening, the A3rx-c is likely the better value.

I actually fall into the 2-channel crowd, myself. However, I currently run the A3rx-c's and continue to be impressed by them. Jon's working on some stuff that has the original A5's out of play for now. And, though I would prefer the A5's, I'm honestly not missing them. I would not say the same thing about the original A3 towers, which lived side-by-side with the A5's for a year.

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'faster horses'." -H. Ford | Krell Showcase 7.1/Anthem Statement D1 pre/pros | Musical Concepts' LX Elite Mini-Platinum Mod Adcom MOSFET GFA-5500 | Acurus/Mondial A200x3 | Bluesound Node 2/Apple TV 4K | Toshiba SD-9200 CD/DVD-A | Vizio 55" LED/LCD | L+R: Chane MTM Prototype | Chane A2.4 center | custom-finished Chane A5rx-c surrounds | Member: NATIA, LEVA, & AES.
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I have the A5's, A2rx-C, and A1-B's in my system and love them. Have had the, for 2.5 years or so, not 100% sure. Last year got a PSA 15XV15se sub to complete my 5.1 and it sounds great.
The ARX series speakers are such a great value that when people hear at my house they can't believe how they sound for what I paid for them. Great work to all of those involved!
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Talking

I have the A5's, A2rx-C, and A1-B's in my system and love them. Have had the, for 2.5 years or so, not 100% sure. Last year got a PSA 15XV15se sub to complete my 5.1 and it sounds great.
The ARX series speakers are such a great value that when people hear at my house they can't believe how they sound for what I paid for them. Great work to all of those involved!
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post #1410 of 4724 Old 01-15-2016, 03:02 PM
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Lateral Move?

Hi All,

Currently I have the v2 Andrew Jones Pioneer set (two towers, center, and two bookshelves) paired with a Gamma 18 from Reaction Audio and am looking to upgrade the L/C/R. What I really dislike about my current system is the center speaker. I find dialogue is muffled and very boxy sounding. Also, it seems to really struggle with women's voices and higher frequencies. I'm thinking of taking the AJ towers and using them as surrounds and then adding two A5s and an A2. I have two questions:

1. Would this be a lateral move or do you think Chanes will be a big improvement? (I went from Klipsch 12 inch sub to the Gamma 18 - BIG IMPROVEMENT!)
2. Would using the AJ towers as surrounds work? They would be positioned in the corners of the room. Currently, the bookshelves are raised and the towers wouldn't be.

Thanks for any input!
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