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post #61 of 3168 Old 02-25-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Hey there,
I have to say, what you are hearing is a simple mismatch of audio equipment.

I have a denon avr 2113 and I auditioned them with a marantz 6007 I think it was and the seller told me the ls50 were a mismatch with all denon/marantz amps and receivers.

Indeed I heard them with a Cambridge audio and it was a night and day difference.

I need to change my setup now. :-(

I’m beginning to believe that might be true as I’ve been reading about it being mentioned elsewhere. What kind of Cambridge is this?

Anyhow, I hope this tizziness dissipates after the break-in period and is not an inherent character. It also could be caused by the receiver’s lack of power- so I might need a to find a new rig, not too expensive (under 1K), with enough juice to make my speaker sound clean and pristine even at low moderate level.
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post #62 of 3168 Old 02-26-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Turn off Audessey and go from there. Audessey really helps mediocre speaker designs in bad rooms, but I've noticed people that have measurably and subjectively good speakers tend to not like what Audessey does.

To elaborate, Audyssey's target curve introduces a midrange notch, to compensate for the fact that most speakers sold are poorly designed. The LS50 is not poorly designed, and the notch hurts more than helps such speakers.

The other thing is, Audyssey is equalizing both the NHTs and KEFs to their target curve, so one should expect them to sound very similar.
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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

If the issue persists start with speaker placement. I'm not big on a lot room treatment, but a side wall too close, or the wall behind the speaker can cause issues for sure. Side wall too close does seem impact treble quite a lot.

Agreed, though I'd start with toe-in (I more often than not find that crossing the mains in front of the listening position nicely balances focus and spaciousness) before sidewall treatment.

Getting the listening position off the back wall is also a very good idea.

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post #63 of 3168 Old 02-26-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

I have to say, what you are hearing is a simple mismatch of audio equipment.

I have a denon avr 2113 and I auditioned them with a marantz 6007 I think it was and the seller told me the ls50 were a mismatch with all denon/marantz amps and receivers.

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I’m beginning to believe that might be true.

Me too...I carried my LS50's to my main system and to my ear they sound a heck of alot better than the Denon receiver I'm currently substituting until the new Prima Luna amp arrives.
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post #64 of 3168 Old 02-26-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

To elaborate, Audyssey's target curve introduces a midrange notch, to compensate for the fact that most speakers sold are poorly designed. The LS50 is not poorly designed, and the notch hurts more than helps such speakers.

The other thing is, Audyssey is equalizing both the NHTs and KEFs to their target curve, so one should expect them to sound very similar...

DS-21 ... what do you think of the "Audyssey Flat" setting/option?

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post #65 of 3168 Old 02-26-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by K Shep View Post


Me too...I carried my LS50's to my main system and to my ear they sound a heck of alot better than the Denon receiver I'm currently substituting until the new Prima Luna amp arrives.

we are in the same shoes aren't we

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post #66 of 3168 Old 02-26-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

we are in the same shoes aren't we


Indeed, I was considering purchasing the Nova125 on Audiogon last week, the gent was asking $1125 for the slightly used unit. I looked one day, signed in ealry the next morning to see if it is still available and it was gone. Audiogon is a bit addictive for me sometimes.


We obviously think alike.
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post #67 of 3168 Old 02-26-2013, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

Indeed, I was considering purchasing the Nova125 on Audiogon last week, the gent was asking $1125 for the slightly used unit. I looked one day, signed in ealry the next morning to see if it is still available and it was gone. Audiogon is a bit addictive for me sometimes. We obviously think alike.

ouch, that would have been an epic deal. I wonder what happened. audioGON.
I will have it tomorrow. It will take around 10 seconds to have it hooked up, that is how prepared I am!

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post #68 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 10:48 AM
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Hey guys just so you know a good budget amp that mates well with the Ls50's is a NAD326bee .Ive been running that combo and I'm very impressed . Also there not in the ideal place in my listening area but I do have minor room treatments and still sound amazing .Anyway just wanted to share my experience . Everyone's taste is different but IMO its a great combo.
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post #69 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

Hey guys just so you know a good budget amp that mates well with the Ls50's is a NAD326bee .Ive been running that combo and I'm very impressed . Also there not in the ideal place in my listening area but I do have minor room treatments and still sound amazing .Anyway just wanted to share my experience . Everyone's taste is different but IMO its a great combo.

I'm looking into a used NAD 3020 if I can find one. It was the same rig used by Steve Guttenberg in his Audiophiliac review. Surprisingly, it only has 40 wpc stereo and I'm not sure how far was he was sitting nor his setup.

I have to admit it is sounding much better now but I can't officially tell till I revert to the old setup and do a proper a-b comparison with my NHTs. I'll have more time this weekend.
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post #70 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by K Shep View Post


Me too...I carried my LS50's to my main system and to my ear they sound a heck of alot better than the Denon receiver I'm currently substituting until the new Prima Luna amp arrives.

Some speakers can be a bit more forgiving when you pump in a compressed signal but this LS50’s transparency is quite amazing – garbage in garbage out. I feel the need to go back with separates just to have a clean signal path somewhere along the chain, besides having uncompressed files.

On another note, any Ls50 owner here who’s never been fond of KEF other speaker line? I’m just mirroring the whathifi forum from someone who was not a huge KEF fan until he got to listen to the LS50s. I’m curious to see exactly what you didn’t like about it that made you change your mind now with the LS50s.
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post #71 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

I'm looking into a used NAD 3020 if I can find one. It was the same rig used by Steve Guttenberg in his Audiophiliac review. Surprisingly, it only has 40 wpc stereo and I'm not sure how far was he was sitting nor his setup.

I have to admit it is sounding much better now but I can't officially tell till I revert to the old setup and do a proper a-b comparison with my NHTs. I'll have more time this weekend.
I wouldn't be that concerned with the 40wpc rating .NAD is pretty conservative with there Power ratings .The 326 is only rated at 50wpc but with my area it has plenty of power .
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post #72 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 01:16 PM
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Hi Guys
About to become a owner of a front stage of 3 LS50's ! I was able to find a great dealer that was able to secure 3 speakers for me. I'm using a Marantz sr7005. I'd be surprised to find this amp is not a good match for them. I spoke to KEF regarding these the above comments about Marantz/Dennon being a " mismatch" . He said he never heard of such a problem. Most complaints he said were when owners were using a underpowered or broken amp..
I'll report back when I have everything set up. Very stoked!
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post #73 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 03:11 PM
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Look and Listen in Mobile Alabama recently picked up Kef and will be getting the LS50s for demo soon in case you are in that area. I am looking forward to hearing them (and trying to figure how to make them work as surrounds).

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #74 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

I wonder what happened. audioGON.

At that price the unit sold in one day.
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post #75 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 10:25 PM
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Well, I took the plunge. Called up a dealer and ordered 3 more to complete my 5.x set. Now I need to nurse my wallet back to health so I can invest in new subwoofer(s) in the next few months.

I might kick myself later because I honestly think the LS50s are beyond excellent as a 2.1 HT system. But I was watching Avatar tonight and missing the surround sound experience. I guess I could've used less expensive KEFs like the Q300s for surrounds, but I don't think I would've been satisfied with non-matching speakers.

I am running my system thru a Marantz SR7002. Mac Mini media server and PS3. Needs subwoofer tho.

Might consider adding a dedicated 2 channel amp like a Peachtree or NAD for music only, but I'm not sure how the wiring would work in conjunction with the AVR.
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post #76 of 3168 Old 02-27-2013, 11:11 PM
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Congrats. How much power does your amp have?

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post #77 of 3168 Old 02-28-2013, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

Congrats. How much power does your amp have?

The Marantz AVR? 110 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Although some reviews indicate its more like 95 wpc all channels driven.

In any case, it's served me well for about 4 years now. Bummed it cannot utilize it's Audyssey settings when bitstreaming.
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post #78 of 3168 Old 02-28-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AUDIOgiant View Post

The Marantz AVR? 110 watts per channel at 8 ohms. Although some reviews indicate its more like 95 wpc all channels driven.

In any case, it's served me well for about 4 years now. Bummed it cannot utilize it's Audyssey settings when bitstreaming.

A Marantz with 110wpc at 8 will serve you well with these speakers.
I pushed mine with a Denon avr 125wpc at 8, and the speakers were moving air well.
this was just temporary, in another room, while I was waiting for my integrated to arrive.
Granted, with the denon, I didn't have a lot of headroom, I was at reference with the amp, I play loud.
But I think your marantz 110wpc vs. my denon 125wpc is prolly around the same wink.gif

With the peachtree 125wpc, there is a TON of headroom.

good luck.
I do not think you need to race out to get a new amp for these speakers, unless you really think you need it.

If you had the marantz 1601 with 50wpc, it would be a different story.
these speakers are not sensitive, they need 80wpc or better IMO, prolly really WANT 100-125wpc.

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post #79 of 3168 Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 AM
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Questions / comments about my current set up. While I patiently await my new KEF LS50's(3) and my new SVS12-NSD sub, I'm wondering if I'm getting the most out of my system. I have a Marantz ST7005 with my current 5.1 hooked into it. I also have a Adcom GFA- 555ms hooked into my zone to to power my multi-room. I also have a Niles 5 speaker selector to control the on/off and volume for the multi-room. I guess I'm wonder if im better off (if possible) to utilize the Adcom for the KEF LS50's and hook the Niles speaker selector into the zone 2 of my marantz? If this is possible would i achieve better results? If so whats happens when I want to utilize the 5.1 to watch movies? would I need to turn on the marantz(for rears/center and sub) While turning on the Adcom for the front L/R? Am i just over thinking this whole process? Thanks in advance?
Gellie

BTW cross posting this
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post #80 of 3168 Old 02-28-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

To elaborate, Audyssey's target curve introduces a midrange notch, to compensate for the fact that most speakers sold are poorly designed. The LS50 is not poorly designed, and the notch hurts more than helps such speakers.

The other thing is, Audyssey is equalizing both the NHTs and KEFs to their target curve, so one should expect them to sound very similar...

DS-21 ... what do you think of the "Audyssey Flat" setting/option?

"Flat" just refers to the HF target curve. It, sadly, doesn't do anything to get rid of the crappy speakers compensation notch.

I haven't used Audyssey for a while (ARC is so much better), but IIRC when I did use Audyssey I preferred their house curve (top end rolloff) to flat.

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post #81 of 3168 Old 02-28-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

A Marantz with 110wpc at 8 will serve you well with these speakers.
I pushed mine with a Denon avr 125wpc at 8, and the speakers were moving air well.
this was just temporary, in another room, while I was waiting for my integrated to arrive.
Granted, with the denon, I didn't have a lot of headroom, I was at reference with the amp, I play loud.
But I think your marantz 110wpc vs. my denon 125wpc is prolly around the same wink.gif

With the peachtree 125wpc, there is a TON of headroom.

good luck.
I do not think you need to race out to get a new amp for these speakers, unless you really think you need it.

If you had the marantz 1601 with 50wpc, it would be a different story.
these speakers are not sensitive, they need 80wpc or better IMO, prolly really WANT 100-125wpc.
I agree except the NAD rated at 50 and the marantz are two different things ( ; For those that listen to moderate listening levels in a medium size room the NAD 326bee does a great job . So for those on a budget thatsa great integrated amp for the money that mates well with the LS50's and that's coming from first hand experience not a hunch. Just for kicks I might have to hook them up threw my Parasound A52. I bet they would sound amazing since already sound so good with the NAD and really IMO feel no need for more power.
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post #82 of 3168 Old 03-03-2013, 01:02 PM
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Well I'm more than half way there. Hooked up my L/R LS50's,HTS2001-3 (for rears) and my SVS12-NSD sub. Just now waiting for my 3rd LS 50 to be delivered for my center. Everything sound amazing. I have about 15-20 hours of listening so far. Very happy. BTW, I have not re-run Audessy(still set for my old Boston Acoustic micro 90). Waiting for center to arrive. I can only imagine how much better it will sound. Thanks for everyone's input. I'll post when everything is re-calibrated.
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post #83 of 3168 Old 03-03-2013, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Well I'm more than half way there. Hooked up my L/R LS50's,HTS2001-3 (for rears) and my SVS12-NSD sub. Just now waiting for my 3rd LS 50 to be delivered for my center. Everything sound amazing. I have about 15-20 hours of listening so far. Very happy. BTW, I have not re-run Audessy(still set for my old Boston Acoustic micro 90). Waiting for center to arrive. I can only imagine how much better it will sound. Thanks for everyone's input. I'll post when everything is re-calibrated.
That's great to hear . These LS50's are so amazing and seem to be getting better by the day and its not even necessary . Guess its just a added KEF Bonus : )
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post #84 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

^^^ So what AVR would you recommend? (For those of us running 5.1 and not wanting to go the separate receiver/amps route.)
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I'm certainly no expert. However as long as your amp/avr is powerful enough I can't see it being a "mismatch".
Hey there, the issue is really finding a receiver that is built to drive 4 Ohm speakers. Finding such a receiver may prove to be rather difficult. To my knowledge, Integra and top of the line Onkyo (its little brother) support 4 Ohm speakers.

The problem with power is.., that Wattage is not the whole story. I wish it was. Amperage is the other half. WHe question is how many Amps your speaker needs to be driven at a certain resistance. The LS50 go lower (resistance wise) than an average AVR can handle, simply because at that lower resistance they need more Ampers than the AVR is built to give.

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post #85 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

I don’t what it is, for some reason my LS50 is not performing up to standard in stereo. I wonder if this is caused by either my Marantz 1602 receiver, Airplay’s bandwidth limitation when playing Apple lossless files, the lack of breaking-in, or because I’m seated too close to the backwall of a non-acoustically treated room. There are factors, I know, but for it to sound just as good as my old NHTs something doesn’t appear quite right. I even developed some ear fatigue listening at moderate volume.

So I asked in the amp/receiver thread if re-calibrating Audyssey will help such issue. Any other suggestions here? Maybe the speakers too revealing nature tends to exacerbate the higher frequencies, especially with airplay…

With movies though, it’s a different ballgame. They are a detail champ, for sure – ultra clear, especially with vocals and surrounds. I can’t help but smile when I hear subtleties of background noises that were never noticed before. Even sound effects that were far from distance were quite audible with a degree of clarity. They sounded so full with such a defined bass. So clean and defined I’ve re-watched the entire Skyfall movie last night without a sub. While they never dug deep in the lows, the accuracy and definition of the mid bass worked so efficiently that I never felt something missing at all. As a result, I enjoyed the film just as immensely without a sub. I can’t imagine just how good it gets when matched with a good quality sub:).

Hi, the problem is, your Marantz is unable to power these speakers and control them well enough. I suggest you buy a separate power amp and connect it to your pre-out and drive the speakers this way.

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post #86 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john bass View Post

Out of curiosity do you configure the LS50's as 'Large' or Small' on your AVR receivers?

I think this may answer your question:
http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large


PS: I have mine on small smile.gif I did try large, but small just makes more sense with movies.

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post #87 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 07:56 AM
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I’m beginning to believe that might be true as I’ve been reading about it being mentioned elsewhere. What kind of Cambridge is this?

Anyhow, I hope this tizziness dissipates after the break-in period and is not an inherent character. It also could be caused by the receiver’s lack of power- so I might need a to find a new rig, not too expensive (under 1K), with enough juice to make my speaker sound clean and pristine even at low moderate level.

It was an Azure 651 A with 651 C.

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post #88 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 08:08 AM
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Hey guys just so you know a good budget amp that mates well with the Ls50's is a NAD326bee .Ive been running that combo and I'm very impressed . Also there not in the ideal place in my listening area but I do have minor room treatments and still sound amazing .Anyway just wanted to share my experience . Everyone's taste is different but IMO its a great combo.

Hey there! Amazing combo! I have similar experience actually. Since my Denon AVR-2113 sounds ... well rubbish with LS50s, I decided to buy an older amp and got myself a NAD C320 and I have to say it sounds amazing! A lot cleaner than before, the vocals are now more present and rich, yet smooth. Bass has improved immensely too! Many instruments that sounded subdued came forward and music now sounds rich and full of life even at moderate volume! This to me proved my initial theory that power in Watts is not everything. It is the ability to feed the speaker with Amperes! Funny how after realizing this.., I see few companies mentioning this. Though.., NAD does! :-)

So now I have a rather non-standard set-up going on. I have two speaker cables connected to my LS 50s, one set of cables connected with bare wire to the Denon AVR-2113 and another set connected with bananas to the NAD C320. When I watch a movie, I turn the NAD off and when music, vice versa. I did get a speaker swith but then changed my mind as another element just seemed too much.

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post #89 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 08:30 AM
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Like i said im no expert. But i have my F L/R LS50's hooked up to my Marantz SR7005 and they sound amazing. Both a low levels and high levels. And I haven't even re-run Audessy yet(waiting for center LS50 to arrive).
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post #90 of 3168 Old 03-05-2013, 09:15 AM
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KEF LS50
47Hz ->

I will end up bringing a small sub into my 2 channel room - for certain rock music, when I just want that extra thump. Unfortunately it's range is only 38 Hz and up to 150 Hz.
Since I am not using an AVR, but an integrated without bass mgmt, where would you set the crossover on this sub?

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