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post #1741 of 3192 Old 02-22-2016, 03:32 AM
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Is any good thread or forum (i mean not only focus on selling their products) here or outside this forum discussion about acoustic room/panel ?

I'll try focus on room acoustic by now..
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post #1742 of 3192 Old 02-27-2016, 07:30 PM
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Hey guys. I own LS50 since recently, bought an used pair, one year old in great condition. However I have noticed something today and I am not sure is it normal or a reason to worry. On one speaker mid and high frequency drivers are pretty much flush, however on other speaker midrange driver is protruding out for an about milimeter compared to other. I havent notices any sonic issues, just a slight aesthetic difference since ring between two drivers looks bolder on one speaker. Any reason to suspect some sort of damage or is this within margin of error in construction of speaker?
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post #1743 of 3192 Old 02-27-2016, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadz View Post
Is any good thread or forum (i mean not only focus on selling their products) here or outside this forum discussion about acoustic room/panel ?

I'll try focus on room acoustic by now..
You can find a lot of good ideas by reading through various posts in this section here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...ia-game-rooms/


Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Hey guys. I own LS50 since recently, bought an used pair, one year old in great condition. However I have noticed something today and I am not sure is it normal or a reason to worry. On one speaker mid and high frequency drivers are pretty much flush, however on other speaker midrange driver is protruding out for an about milimeter compared to other. I havent notices any sonic issues, just a slight aesthetic difference since ring between two drivers looks bolder on one speaker. Any reason to suspect some sort of damage or is this within margin of error in construction of speaker?
That doesn't seem right, the LS50 is known for being of a high quality build. Pictures of the difference, please?

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post #1744 of 3192 Old 02-28-2016, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
That doesn't seem right, the LS50 is known for being of a high quality build. Pictures of the difference, please?
Here. You can clearly see a difference on one picture.
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post #1745 of 3192 Old 02-28-2016, 07:08 AM
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Hopefully other LS50 owners can look at theirs and comment on which is "normal." I wouldn't be able to tell you if the midrange is proud or the tweeter recessed.

It may be a visual only thing and not have any significant impact on performance, but only a measured analysis would be able to tell if you don't have calibrated ears.

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post #1746 of 3192 Old 03-01-2016, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
You're welcome Oboe, and good luck. Yes...if you had mentioned most any other tube unit, than PL; I would have hesitated the ringing endorsement...just because of statements like this: "(my level of clumsiness being so extreme that I find changing light bulbs challenging), I am intimidated by tubes."

But, as you may have discovered by now...PL is about as idiot-proof as it comes, for toob noobs. So it sounds like, you have yourself narrowed-down...to a much more manageable 2 candidates. PL for tubes, the Rogue if you want a hybrid; and all the better...it sounds like you have the means, to hear both.

For the record...I'm pulling for the PL I'm a big fan...and, with all due respect, to Senor Glass-Head Kevin Deal; I still say, stick with the ProLogue Premium...at least to start. The HP, is twice as many tubes...and I just don't think, you'll lack for much with the PLP.
Hi!

I am so glad that I came to this forum! I want to thank profoundly all of you who so kindly gave me your advise and the benefit of your experience. My red KEF50s have been connected to a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium integrated amp through Belden 5000 white speaker cables and an Oppo 105D Blue ray player in which I play only CDs. Not only did I achieve my fickle goal of Stereophile A bragging rights but I could not have done better for the price. Thank you CDLehner for your bold encouragement for the Prima Luna. It drives the KEF beautifully. The image focus, the sound stage, crisp upper treble, clarity of sound, airiness, ample soundstage, pacing - paradisiacal! Are thy a bit bright - sure but I love it. What about the bass? Better than I expected but can be tauter - alone. Indeed, a recording like Layla reveals the bass deficiencies but the KEF plays with authority the percussional goulash stewing Chuck Mangione's flugelhorn in Feel so Good and Christian La Marca's low cello in Deposit Potentes from Bach's Magnificat. Listening to Janice Watsom, the KEFs reveal that the Flower duet from Lakme is really a trio with the cello. The late Segovia seems revived and angelically playing his guitar rendition of Bach's Prelude of the Cello Suite no 1 smack in the center of the living room. Actually, the guitar reproduction is amazing, take Fleetwood Mac's Never Going Back Again as exhibit A and Cancion from the album Salamandra by Claudia Gomez as exhibit B for guitar and voice. Anna Netrebko sounded ravishing in the area Zdes Korocho and the trumpets in Alan Curtis's recording of Vivaldi's Montezuma's aria D'ira el furor armada seemed to surround me. The projection of Mirella Freni in Wiegenlied is unexpected. The LS50s helped me decide who recorded the 9 high C's in Mes amis-Quao destino more effortelessly (my vote: William Matteuzzi over Florez and even that "King of the high Cs" Pavarotti)and he milks the ending just in case anyone doubts it) The Berliner Philarmoniler's viola section blew me away introducing the main theme of Rachmaninoff's pain concerto in C minor while the violins delivered the knock out punch of ecstasy with the repetition of the theme. The KEF get down in Albita's charanga, Que Manera de Quererte. Oh! I can go on incessantly. Love, love, love the amp-Kef 50 combination. Thank you so much for all your help.
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post #1747 of 3192 Old 03-02-2016, 04:00 AM
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Great review, well done!

I have to say, my KEF dealer also sells Prima Luna and does use them extensively in their demo rooms. My chief concern with going glass is that of the lifespan of the tubes and how they degrade over time. My ears wouldn't likely detect the slow degradation until it was embarrassingly bad. With solid state it pretty much works or it doesn't.

Are these unfounded fears? If there is truth to the gradual erosion of tubes, how is it judged?

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post #1748 of 3192 Old 03-02-2016, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Here. You can clearly see a difference on one picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Hopefully other LS50 owners can look at theirs and comment on which is "normal." I wouldn't be able to tell you if the midrange is proud or the tweeter recessed.

It may be a visual only thing and not have any significant impact on performance, but only a measured analysis would be able to tell if you don't have calibrated ears.
Huh...I just saw this and had to look/feel mine. Of the 5 I have, 4 are flush similar to the picture on the right. And then I have one where the uni-q is barely sticking out a tiny bit more. I guess the opposite of the one in your picture on the left. Go fig, never noticed until now. I would say if you haven't noticed any difference in sound, then it's a-ok.

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post #1749 of 3192 Old 03-02-2016, 06:02 PM
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FWIW, with the 5 R series speakers I have here there are 5 Uni-Q drivers. I just gave all a close look. I'm a machinist so have a "calibrated" eyeball and would estimate the following:

Of two R100, one is flush and the other the tweeter is recessed about 1/2 a mm (0.020".) On the R200c, the tweeter is proud by about 0.4mm (0.015".) On the R500, one is flush and the other has the tweeter proud by the smallest amount, perhaps 0.25mm (0.010".)

They all sound fine. I imagine there's a manufacturing/assembly tolerance, given there are two speaker assemblies in one unit.

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post #1750 of 3192 Old 03-12-2016, 10:11 PM
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Hello.

Thanks to this really informative thread I ended up buying a set of LS50's yesterday to replace my very old Q40's.

The AV Receiver I am currently using is a Marantz 1402 and while the speakers do sound pretty nice with it, I realise getting a dedicated stereo amp will get a lot more out of the LS50's.

My research has lead me to the Cambridge Audio SR20 which seems to have a nice amount of power at affordable price and some digital inputs as well. Having a phono input is a bonus as well as I've been thinking of trying vinyl lately.

Would this be a nice fit for the LS50's?

The SR20 will just be for music only and I'll use an ATV via optical into the SR20 to play my CD collection which has already been converted to Apple Lossless. The ATV is connected to my iMac in another room via ethernet.

I'll still keep the 1402 for now as well for when we watch 5.1 movies.

The other option is paying roughly double the price and getting a CA 651R which seems like an all-in-one HT/Music solution.

And BTW, just like to give a plug to KEF Hong Kong ... they were so cool and let me spend ages listening to my own music (twice I went in there ) though different speakers and amps before settling on the LS50's. Very nice people to deal with

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post #1751 of 3192 Old 03-20-2016, 04:57 PM
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Hello, guys

I have ordered ls50 online and speaker stands as well but I have one concern about size of top plate of speaker stands.

Size of top plates is 7" x 7". I think it is too small.


Should I cancel the order of speaker stands?

I need your help, LS50 owners.
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post #1752 of 3192 Old 03-20-2016, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOONHO YOO View Post
Hello, guys

I have ordered ls50 online and speaker stands as well but I have one concern about size of top plate of speaker stands.

Size of top plates is 7" x 7". I think it is too small.


Should I cancel the order of speaker stands?

I need your help, LS50 owners.
Woonho

7" x 7" will be fine.

I made my stands with a 6" x 6" top plate.
They are bolted to a 350 lb. cabinet.

Steve
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post #1753 of 3192 Old 03-20-2016, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOONHO YOO View Post
Hello, guys

I have ordered ls50 online and speaker stands as well but I have one concern about size of top plate of speaker stands.
Size of top plates is 7" x 7". I think it is too small.
Have some Skylan stands made specifically for the LS50 and the top plate is 7"W x 7.5"D. They are 24" high (incl. spikes), which is the max. stand height recommended by KEF. Used Blu-Tack to secure the speakers to the stands.

Hope you enjoy the little KEFs as much as I do...
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post #1754 of 3192 Old 03-21-2016, 01:52 AM
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Thank you so much, Tr4a, Turnbrown.

Your answers really helped me. I'm looking forward to seeing my ls50
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post #1755 of 3192 Old 03-24-2016, 07:30 PM
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Hey LS50 owners,

I have a question.

I bought used LS50 online several days ago, but sadly I got damaged one today.
I'm not sure it was damaged during the shipping, anyway I have one thing to ask you guys.

Does this damage affect to sound quality?

Please see attached images.

Need your opinion.

So sad today.
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post #1756 of 3192 Old 03-24-2016, 07:49 PM
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Sad to see, but it will not have any effect on sound at all.

As soon as you start playing music through them all will be forgotten.

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post #1757 of 3192 Old 03-25-2016, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOONHO YOO View Post
... I bought used LS50 online several days ago, but sadly I got damaged one today.
I'm not sure it was damaged during the shipping, anyway I have one thing to ask you guys.

Does this damage affect to sound quality?
The damage may not affect the sound, but there's no way that I would accept something like that. If the shipping container is not damaged then that means that the speaker was damaged before it was shipped. Get with the seller ASAP and arrange a return.
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post #1758 of 3192 Old 03-25-2016, 05:53 AM
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That's unacceptable.

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post #1759 of 3192 Old 03-25-2016, 07:01 AM
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I understand it's not right, but he did state that he bought them used and also that he's not sure if they were damaged in shipping or not. He may be stuck with them.

At least the damage is on the back corner and depending upon where it's placed, it may never be seen by most people looking at them.

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post #1760 of 3192 Old 03-25-2016, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Hey guys. I own LS50 since recently, bought an used pair, one year old in great condition. However I have noticed something today and I am not sure is it normal or a reason to worry. On one speaker mid and high frequency drivers are pretty much flush, however on other speaker midrange driver is protruding out for an about milimeter compared to other. I havent notices any sonic issues, just a slight aesthetic difference since ring between two drivers looks bolder on one speaker. Any reason to suspect some sort of damage or is this within margin of error in construction of speaker?
mine are not exactly the same either. i don't think it's a problem at all. the ones i'm listening to sound great.
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post #1761 of 3192 Old 03-25-2016, 01:47 PM
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Great review, well done!

I have to say, my KEF dealer also sells Prima Luna and does use them extensively in their demo rooms. My chief concern with going glass is that of the lifespan of the tubes and how they degrade over time. My ears wouldn't likely detect the slow degradation until it was embarrassingly bad. With solid state it pretty much works or it doesn't.

Are these unfounded fears? If there is truth to the gradual erosion of tubes, how is it judged?
the pre-amp tubes will last a very long time -- many years.

the length of time that the power tubes last depends on the tube, how aggressively they are biased, and how much they're used. it ranges widely, but power tubes should last several years anyway. when they go, it can be gradual (less output, more flabby bass, less clarity) or they'll just blow (usually will sound distorted).

i'd call prima luna and see if they can give you a range. changing tubes is part of the fun of tubes amps -- different brands and even individual tubes sound different. in my mind, it's the same as someone who loves spinning vinyl and tinkering with their 'table.
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post #1762 of 3192 Old 03-25-2016, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
Here. You can clearly see a difference on one picture.
Both of mine are flush. Not sure if a tiny MM matters though...

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post #1763 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 08:42 AM
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Some great insights in this thread!

I'm in front of a crossroad and would like some assistance with my dilemma.

Have a pair of LS50s + a sub and I want to upgrade my amp audio set-up.
After spending some time looking at the available options I have a shortlist of 2 alternatives. The Solid State and the Tube one:

Solid State:
- Parasound Halo Integrated Amplifier
  • Integrated DAC - Latest generation ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC (ES9018K2M)
  • 160 Watts x 2 @ 8 Ohms (RMS, both channels driven)
  • 240 Watts x 2 @ 4 Ohms (RMS, both channels driven)
  • Power amp circuit topology designed by legendary John Curl
  • Direct amplifier input to bypass preamp section
  • High bias class A/AB operation


Tube:
- Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP Integrated Amplifier
  • Inputs: 5 pairs RCA, 1 pair home-theater bypass
  • Outputs: 4 & 8 ohms
  • Subwoofer output: RCA. Headphone output: ¼" stereo jack.
  • Rated output power into 8 ohms, 1% THD: triode mode, 40Wpc (EL34, 16dBW), 42Wpc (KT88, 16.23dBW), 45Wpc (KT120, 16.53dBW); ultralinear mode, 70Wpc (EL34, 18.45dBW), 73Wpc (KT88, 18.63dBW), 85Wpc (KT120, 19.3dBW).
  • Frequency response, ±1dB: 7Hz–65kHz (EL34), 7Hz–70kHz (KT88), 7Hz–75kHz (KT120). THD (1W/1kHz): <0.1%. Signal/noise: 92dB (EL34, KT88), 93dB (KT120).
  • Input sensitivity: 320mV (EL34, KT88), 360mV (KT120).
  • Input impedance: 100k ohms
- DAC (requires external DAC)
Need some help for some quality DACs that might complement nicely the Primaluna Tube option - Budget for DAC: ~ 1000$

I understand that it's mostly a matter of taste in the end if one goes with ss or tube, but do you foresee any major issues with any of the two set-ups?
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post #1764 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 09:23 AM
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That parasound is so much overkill, especially with a sub you would only need a fraction of the power it puts out.

I use my ls50 as LR in my ht setup powered by a 50wpc Marantz nr1606 and it gets very very loud, and sounds great.
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post #1765 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suixt View Post
I'm in front of a crossroad and would like some assistance with my dilemma.
I don't see the dilemma. The Parasound will likely be a trouble-free amp that will sound superb with the LS50s -- my A 21 does, whereas the Primaluna will open up the hobby of tube rolling, e.g.,
* Rated output power into 8 ohms, 1% THD: triode mode, 40Wpc (EL34, 16dBW), 42Wpc (KT88, 16.23dBW), 45Wpc (KT120, 16.53dBW); ultralinear mode, 70Wpc (EL34, 18.45dBW), 73Wpc (KT88, 18.63dBW), 85Wpc (KT120, 19.3dBW).
* Frequency response, ±1dB: 7Hz–65kHz (EL34), 7Hz–70kHz (KT88), 7Hz–75kHz (KT120). THD (1W/1kHz): <0.1%.
* Signal/noise: 92dB (EL34, KT88), 93dB (KT120).
* Input sensitivity: 320mV (EL34, KT88), 360mV (KT120).

So the question is: Do you want to listen to music or do you want a hobby? One of my duties as a grad student was checking tubes for microphonic. MC60s were the lab standard 50+ years ago.
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post #1766 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 01:29 PM
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thanks both!
@dbphd : well I'm not sure what I want . I like the playful nature of a valve but I do not want to sacrifice performance either
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post #1767 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 02:14 PM
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thanks both!
@dbphd : well I'm not sure what I want . I like the playful nature of a valve but I do not want to sacrifice performance either
pretty much as long as what you get isn't broken or total garbage you will do fine
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post #1768 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 02:28 PM
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I don't have LS50's (yet) but if I did I would it would be for 2.1 channel music only and I would lean toward a solid state integrated. I like tubes but also prefer long term stability of performance. Yes, I know tubes can have long life depending upon how they are used. I'm just the type that might not notice until it's really bad just how far down the hill the tubes have gone. And I'm not one for "routine maintenance" on audio systems, other than dusting off now & then.

I'd also be considering "too much" power in something like a Parasound Halo Integrated, Hegel H160, NAD Master M2, or Rotel who has a new one on the way. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around because you never know when a deal on a bigger & better pair of speakers might come along. Or when I might go looking.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, R50, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758v3 AVR, LG UP875 4K BlueRay, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer. Office: NAD M10, KEF LS50, KEF Kube 10b, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Ortofon 2M Red. Guest room: Hafler 300 L-R, KEF Reference Model 100 center, KEF iQ10 surrounds, modded M&K V-90 sub, Bluesound Vault 2.
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post #1769 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 03:17 PM
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I don't have LS50's (yet) but if I did I would it would be for 2.1 channel music only and I would lean toward a solid state integrated. I like tubes but also prefer long term stability of performance. Yes, I know tubes can have long life depending upon how they are used. I'm just the type that might not notice until it's really bad just how far down the hill the tubes have gone. And I'm not one for "routine maintenance" on audio systems, other than dusting off now & then.

I'd also be considering "too much" power in something like a Parasound Halo Integrated, Hegel H160, NAD Master M2, or Rotel who has a new one on the way. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around because you never know when a deal on a bigger & better pair of speakers might come along. Or when I might go looking.
Tube Pre-Amp + Solid State Power Amp...

5.2.4 HT - Sony XBR75X850C, Denon X4400H, Monitor Audio GS60, GSLCR, GSFX, C380LCR x4 and Martin Logan Descent I x2
2 Channel - Ascend Sierra Tower w/ RAAL, Sony HAP-Z1ES, Marantz SA-KI-Pearl, Primaluna Dialogue Three, Parasound Halo A21, JL Audio CR1, JL Audio E112 and ATS Acoustics room treatments
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post #1770 of 3192 Old 03-26-2016, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I don't have LS50's (yet) but if I did I would it would be for 2.1 channel music only and I would lean toward a solid state integrated. I like tubes but also prefer long term stability of performance. Yes, I know tubes can have long life depending upon how they are used. I'm just the type that might not notice until it's really bad just how far down the hill the tubes have gone. And I'm not one for "routine maintenance" on audio systems, other than dusting off now & then.

I'd also be considering "too much" power in something like a Parasound Halo Integrated, Hegel H160, NAD Master M2, or Rotel who has a new one on the way. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around because you never know when a deal on a bigger & better pair of speakers might come along. Or when I might go looking.
ls50 have a good amount of mid bass so are ok for a 2ch setup, but they obviously benefit from a sub.

Power is nice to have but most quiet listening is done within the first 1w of power so unless you are throwing parties or like to listen really loud it is mostly irrelevant.
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