KEF LS50 Owners - Page 87 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2581 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jkhome View Post
Well the LS50s come with decoupling pads (and no threads for spikes) and the factory stands are spiked for coupling and stability, with optional inert fill. So that should tell you where they stand on the issue.
Yes clear as mud.

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post #2582 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jkhome View Post
Well the LS50s come with decoupling pads (and no threads for spikes) and the factory stands are spiked for coupling and stability, with optional inert fill. So that should tell you where they stand on the issue.
Yes clear as mud.
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Originally Posted by jkhome View Post
Well the LS50s come with decoupling pads (and no threads for spikes) and the factory stands are spiked for coupling and stability, with optional inert fill. So that should tell you where they stand on the issue.

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post #2583 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 04:37 PM
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Pretty clear to me.

The fact that the speakers themselves have no coupling mechanism such as threaded holes to bolt the to stands means to me KEF prefers the LS50 to be "decoupled" from stands or whatever surface they're placed upon. Meanwhile the stands that KEF offers for them have spikes and room for inert damping fill, effectively solidifying their desire for the stand to act as a coupled, deadening place for the speakers to sit on.
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post #2584 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Pretty clear to me.

The fact that the speakers themselves have no coupling mechanism such as threaded holes to bolt the to stands means to me KEF prefers the LS50 to be "decoupled" from stands or whatever surface they're placed upon. Meanwhile the stands that KEF offers for them have spikes and room for inert damping fill, effectively solidifying their desire for the stand to act as a coupled, deadening place for the speakers to sit on.
Agreed. And if you replace the speaker stand spikes with Black Diamond Racing carbon fiber cones coupled to a 1.5" granite slab sized to be just a little bigger than the bottom of the speaker stand, you will be amazed at the increased accuracy of the soundstage. Blew me away. However I don't want to drag you into my personal sickness.
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post #2585 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post
I have these and they work really well. Their cable management is not internal. Just a loop at the top and bottom, but I think you will have a problem fitting all the cables for the right speaker into most internal setups. I bought some woven sleeving to hide the wires. I’m sure these stands could be painted pretty easily.

https://www.parts-express.com/sanus-...black--240-802

I had a pair of those and didn't like them. I ended up going with these instead, from Monitor Audio.


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post #2586 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AVStone View Post
Agreed. And if you replace the speaker stand spikes with Black Diamond Racing carbon fiber cones coupled to a 1.5" granite slab sized to be just a little bigger than the bottom of the speaker stand, you will be amazed at the increased accuracy of the soundstage. Blew me away. However I don't want to drag you into my personal sickness.
Ok. Looks like you have spent some time in it. I have tried different ways of coupling and decoupling between speaker -stand-carpet-ground but could not hear any difference.

Right now speakers are attached to the stands with the help of blue goop. It has some give with plastic deformation so I will assume thay they are decoupled from the stand.

The stand has plastic feet (sonus) that rest on a low pile carpet. Is this coupled? I also have spikes thta will positively couple these stands with the floor below (cement floor)

One question: if speakers are decoupled from the stand, does it still matter how stand is coupled to anything else? Why?

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post #2587 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 06:00 PM
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I would spike the stands to the concrete, and fill them with sand or whatever will make them inert, heavier and stable. You want as little back and forth movement as possible.

And unless you have kids or wild animals, I would replace the blue tack with something more de-coupling. If not the factory pads, maybe something from Herbies Audio Labs or similar. I use the Isoacoustic platforms, but we already went there.
BTW I took my KEFs off the subs and back on my diy stands, so I could get more output from the subs, placed closer to the side walls. I built the stands over 12 years ago for a brand new pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v3s (that were later traded for Studio 60s). They weigh in at over 50# each. It's nice to be able to recycle audio gear.



Sound Anchor makes some nice stands (although the look is a bit industrial), I notice they include de-coupling pads for all the ones they recommend for the LS50:

http://soundanchors.com/products/2087/kef-ls50

Skylan does the same:

http://www.skylanstands.com/stands.htm

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post #2588 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhome View Post
I would spike the stands to the concrete, and fill them with sand or whatever will make them inert, heavier and stable. You want as little back and forth movement as possible.

And unless you have kids or wild animals, I would replace the blue tack with something more de-coupling. If not the factory pads, maybe something from Herbies Audio Labs or similar. I use the Isoacoustic platforms, but we already went there.
BTW I took my KEFs off the subs and back on my diy stands, so I could get more output from the subs, placed closer to the side walls. I built the stands over 12 years ago for a brand new pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v3s (that were later traded for Studio 60s). They weigh in at over 50# each. It's nice to be able to recycle audio gear.



Sound Anchor makes some nice stands (although the look is a bit industrial), I notice they include de-coupling pads for all the ones they recommend for the LS50:

http://soundanchors.com/products/2087/kef-ls50

Skylan does the same:

http://www.skylanstands.com/stands.htm
Ok I will try your ideas. Thank you. And see if I can hear a difference.

If not, go back to what is convenient.

BTW, if speaker is decoupled from stands, does it still matter if the stand is coupled or decoupled from ground?

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post #2589 of 3192 Old 12-20-2017, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernCA View Post
Ok I will try your ideas. Thank you. And see if I can hear a difference.

If not, go back to what is convenient.

BTW, if speaker is decoupled from stands, does it still matter if the stand is coupled or decoupled from ground?

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Yes it matters. The thing you want to do is make sure your stand is as rigid and dampened as possible to the ground. Rigid meaning stand is rock solid and will not move. Dampened meaning, isolated from the floor so that no vibration can be transmitted to the floor. As an analogy, I have to do the same thing with my Giant Field Tripod for my computer guided telescope. Any type of vibration will cause a long exposure CCD image to blurr and not be pinpoint. With speakers and stands this can be done many ways from expensive "looks cool" to simple but still works fine. There are so many opinions about this even those that say decoupling to points make vibration worse. Sometimes I try to simplify it and look at it this way: Just get your stands and floor standing speakers to be as solid and dampend as possible. For bookshelf speakers, do this with the stands and then on the bottom of the acutal speaker put something soft with high dampening properties.
At the end of the day, make the stand as solid/rigid as possible by making it heavy and dampened to the floor. I find carbon fiber cones on granite slabs to be both stylish and able to work on carpet and wood. Filling the stands with heavy material adds weight and stability as well as dampening. The speaker should perform on its own merits and not be colored by vibration at any source point.

Sure alot of this is subjective and some people just cant here the difference. However some can. Your milage may vary.

Good Luck, make the process fun.

Last edited by AVStone; 12-20-2017 at 10:51 PM.
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post #2590 of 3192 Old 12-21-2017, 04:42 AM
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I'll have to try the granite under the spikes thing, as mine are on a 2nd story wood platform floor. Maybe start with some cheap concrete pavers or ceramic tile from the Home Depot. I did get a decent improvement in bass recently by going from the Cardas speaker placement method to the "Rule of Thirds - 29%" method. It placed the speakers roughly a foot closer to the front wall, slightly further from the side walls.

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post #2591 of 3192 Old 12-21-2017, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVStone View Post
Yes it matters. The thing you want to do is make sure your stand is as rigid and dampened as possible to the ground. Rigid meaning stand is rock solid and will not move. Dampened meaning, isolated from the floor so that no vibration can be transmitted to the floor. As an analogy, I have to do the same thing with my Giant Field Tripod for my computer guided telescope. Any type of vibration will cause a long exposure CCD image to blurr and not be pinpoint. With speakers and stands this can be done many ways from expensive "looks cool" to simple but still works fine. There are so many opinions about this even those that say decoupling to points make vibration worse. Sometimes I try to simplify it and look at it this way: Just get your stands and floor standing speakers to be as solid and dampend as possible. For bookshelf speakers, do this with the stands and then on the bottom of the acutal speaker put something soft with high dampening properties.
At the end of the day, make the stand as solid/rigid as possible by making it heavy and dampened to the floor. I find carbon fiber cones on granite slabs to be both stylish and able to work on carpet and wood. Filling the stands with heavy material adds weight and stability as well as dampening. The speaker should perform on its own merits and not be colored by vibration at any source point.

Sure alot of this is subjective and some people just cant here the difference. However some can. Your milage may vary.

Good Luck, make the process fun.
Thanks. I will give it a try. Any scientific justification as to why this should produce better sound? Thanks in advance.

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post #2592 of 3192 Old 12-23-2017, 06:39 PM
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ok humour me guys, my post has no direct relevance.
but today i sold my focal alpha 50 speakers (were my desktop rig).
and the buyer: one of the soundcrew of Bryan Adams...now how COOL is that?
this young guy named Ryan was initially in charge of the 2010 vancouver olympics audio,
and some of the Bryan Adams crew approached him to work for them as part of their sound crew for touring
...and he's been to over 35 countries etc as a result....and he loved my focal alphas (are for his smaller home studio, and at 5'' woofer have a WAF)we met at his work studios..discussed audio, and bass traps (he makes his own) etc...a really cool down to earth guy. good reviews on them, too...i sold them due to buying the kef ls 50w. (now testing sonos speakers for kitchen)
Leave it to the French to kick the sound of desktop/computer speakers up a notch
https://www.cnet.com/news/leave-it-t...rs-up-a-notch/
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post #2593 of 3192 Old 12-24-2017, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by canali12 View Post
ok humour me guys, my post has no direct relevance.
but today i sold my focal alpha 50 speakers (were my desktop rig).
and the buyer: one of the soundcrew of Bryan Adams...now how COOL is that?
this young guy named Ryan was initially in charge of the 2010 vancouver olympics audio,
and some of the Bryan Adams crew approached him to work for them as part of their sound crew for touring
...and he's been to over 35 countries etc as a result....and he loved my focal alphas (are for his smaller home studio, and at 5'' woofer have a WAF)we met at his work studios..discussed audio, and bass traps (he makes his own) etc...a really cool down to earth guy. good reviews on them, too...i sold them due to buying the kef ls 50w. (now testing sonos speakers for kitchen)
Leave it to the French to kick the sound of desktop/computer speakers up a notch
https://www.cnet.com/news/leave-it-t...rs-up-a-notch/
Nice story!

Sonos for the kitchen? Consider Bluesound products instead if you want similar features but higher quality sound and streaming options.
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post #2594 of 3192 Old 12-24-2017, 11:13 AM
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Last night I played a Reference Recording of Eiji Oue conducting Pictures as an Exhibition on an Ayre C-5exMP with the QX-5 Twenty DAC. I was amazed by how well the combination of LS50s and Velodyne HGS-10s simulated large full-range speakers, including the punch and extension this difficult piece demands. It made me rethink how much I really need those Blade 2s.

db
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post #2595 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 03:51 AM
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What sub woofer do you guys use with your KEF LS50s?
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post #2596 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by gelly Hello, if i did'nt want to use another LS50 as a center,which would be the best matched alternative ? Thanks

 
That is a tuff one! Personally I think that the front speakers should always be the same, surround can be different but honestly you should seriously consider identical three front speakers you will have the best imaging ever.
 
I recently upgraded my center to include a third 800Diamond to make it  three 800Diamond!  I can tell you that it was day and night compared to the 802D that was in the center.


Three Diamond 800s? That's crazy!
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post #2597 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
What sub woofer do you guys use with your KEF LS50s?


Interested in recommendations as well RE subs
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post #2598 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 08:18 AM
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Nice story!

Sonos for the kitchen? Consider Bluesound products instead if you want similar features but higher quality sound and streaming options.
yes thanks i know of bluesound..but from what i understand they're not as easy to setup as is Sonos.
do they also have all those apps and radio stations that sonos gives you access to, as well?
i loved that feature (reminded me of my naim muso)
plus i love that 'True tone' calibration software tool Sonos has...
i very much wish other companies (Denon Heos, Bluesound)
had something similar...... but i'll look into them (bluesound) again.
probably for my kitchen/desktop i'll look into a midsized pulse

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post #2599 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
What sub woofer do you guys use with your KEF LS50s?
A pair of Velodyne HGS-10s with SMS-1 bass manager that provides LF acoustic room correction. That pairing does a very credible job of simulating fine full-range speakers.

db
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post #2600 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 12:40 PM
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My subs are diy cabinets with old 12" (non-servo) Rythmik drivers, driver by Crown Drivecores, with MiniDSP as the bass management. If I were to upgrade, would probably go with the Rythmik/GR Research servo kit, have heard good things about them, particularly that they can be run at a higher frequency, so the KEFs can be high passed higher.
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post #2601 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canali12 View Post
yes thanks i know of bluesound..but from what i understand they're not as easy to setup as is Sonos.
do they also have all those apps and radio stations that sonos gives you access to, as well?
i loved that feature (reminded me of my naim muso)
plus i love that 'True tone' calibration software tool Sonos has...
i very much wish other companies (Denon Heos, Bluesound)
had something similar...... but i'll look into them (bluesound) again.
probably for my kitchen/desktop i'll look into a midsized pulse
Bluesound was very quick and easy for me to set up, only 5 to 10 minutes. The BlueOS system has TuneIn and iHeart internet radio, probably others. I've attached a screenshot of what you'd see with any of their devices & speakers, other than the Vault 2 & original Vault. Those have ripping and a hard drive so it adds the ability to download & store directly from HDTracks and HIRES Audio.

You control the devices with a phone, tablet or desktop computer. The speakers and devices can be linked (up to 34!) for grouping. You can also access any music on your local network, of course.
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post #2602 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
What sub woofer do you guys use with your KEF LS50s?


I use two Kube 2s, crossed at 60 hz, paired to a Denon 4520.


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post #2603 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 03:26 PM
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I use two Kube 2s, crossed at 60 hz, paired to a Denon 4520.


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Interesting! thanks.
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post #2604 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by xhattan View Post
I use two Kube 2s, crossed at 60 hz, paired to a Denon 4520.

In the KEF Owner's thread, a fellow there who has Q series mains and center had initially got a Kube 2 sub with the set. He very soon upgraded to one of the new Kube 12b subs and was quite shocked at how much better it is. By the specs it should be better than an SVS SB1000 or SB12-NSD. I'd be curious to know if any LS50 owners have considered trying the new Kube series, 8b, 10b or 12b.

Apparently KEF has improved their subwoofer offerings with a DSP and a 300 watt amp, versus the 250 watt amps (and no DSP) they'd been using for many of them. The technology introduced with the LS50 Wireless extended to subwoofers...intriguing.

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post #2605 of 3192 Old 12-25-2017, 10:35 PM
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Not sure if this a good place to post since I am not an owner (at least not yet), but considering becoming one because my speakers are due for an upgrade.

I was actually almost settled on the Sierra 2, and possibly looking at the Philharmonitor BMR, but with Boxing week here in Canada I noticed the LS50 can be currently found (assuming in stock) about 43% cheaper than the Sierra 2, plus locally so not having to deal with potential duty when crossing the border .

Has anyone here had a chance to compare with the Sierra 2 and provide some feedback how much they differ ?

I "think" I might have preferred the Sierra 2, and reading around at other forums, I can personally find more cases of people preferring the Sierra 2, one even daring to say the Sierra 2 blew away the LS50 in his comparison. I assume this being the LS50 owners thread most would have preferred the LS50, but I wonder if there is a big difference or if they are maybe similar.

If the difference in sound quality is really not that big, the big price difference currently really tilts the way towards the LS50.

I have heard the Sierras 1 in the past, and loved their mids and how they presented vocals, I have not yet heard the LS50.

If I do end up with the LS50, I would like to know what is the best option for a good quality center speaker that will match well ? Should I just get a third LS50 ?
What are suitable options for surrounds (as well surrounds I might need to mount on the ceiling if I later upgrade to Atmos).
Do such options exist, or is the LS50 mainly good for music (2 or 2.1 channels).

I will of course read through this whole thread and the Kef owners thread, it might have some answers to the questions I am asking already ..

Maybe I will ask about return policy with the store too, I could maybe buy them, audition them for a while and return them if I don't end up liking them enough.
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post #2606 of 3192 Old 12-26-2017, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
Not sure if this a good place to post since I am not an owner (at least not yet), but considering becoming one because my speakers are due for an upgrade.

I was actually almost settled on the Sierra 2, and possibly looking at the Philharmonitor BMR, but with Boxing week here in Canada I noticed the LS50 can be currently found (assuming in stock) about 43% cheaper than the Sierra 2, plus locally so not having to deal with potential duty when crossing the border .

Has anyone here had a chance to compare with the Sierra 2 and provide some feedback how much they differ ?

I "think" I might have preferred the Sierra 2, and reading around at other forums, I can personally find more cases of people preferring the Sierra 2, one even daring to say the Sierra 2 blew away the LS50 in his comparison. I assume this being the LS50 owners thread most would have preferred the LS50, but I wonder if there is a big difference or if they are maybe similar.

If the difference in sound quality is really not that big, the big price difference currently really tilts the way towards the LS50.

I have heard the Sierras 1 in the past, and loved their mids and how they presented vocals, I have not yet heard the LS50.

If I do end up with the LS50, I would like to know what is the best option for a good quality center speaker that will match well ? Should I just get a third LS50 ?
What are suitable options for surrounds (as well surrounds I might need to mount on the ceiling if I later upgrade to Atmos).
Do such options exist, or is the LS50 mainly good for music (2 or 2.1 channels).

I will of course read through this whole thread and the Kef owners thread, it might have some answers to the questions I am asking already ..

Maybe I will ask about return policy with the store too, I could maybe buy them, audition them for a while and return them if I don't end up liking them enough.
I have not heard Sierra 1 or Sierra 2. But can tell you about Ls50. If you like cleaner sound that makes you feel that the singer is in the room with you and each instrument can be heard clearly and with full definition , LS50 are very good. But if you like concert hall sound where several instruments are blended together and singer feels like he or she is far away, then may be another speaker will be best.

You can also read a detailed review in 2012 Stereophile magazine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Last edited by SouthernCA; 12-26-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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post #2607 of 3192 Old 01-02-2018, 03:36 PM
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I see the price on the 50 have gone up, glad I jumped !

Happy New Year!
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Denon X4300H, Onkyo TX-NR 809, Emotiva A100, Dark Voice 336se
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post #2608 of 3192 Old 01-03-2018, 11:14 AM
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Just received LS50 Wireless today and hooked it up.

I just hooked it up and tried playing some songs over bluetooth.
I have a pair of B&O S3s side by side.

Just played a couple of classical guitar tunes (Andrew York's Denouncement) and its weird but it seems as though the S3s sound much better. The finger plucking of the lower notes are much clearer and pronounced on the S3s whereas the LS50ws sound muted and really flat. I feel like I'm in a concert hall with the S3s but not with the LS50s

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here. Granted I'm streaming over bluetooth but the difference is significant.
Or perhaps I'm just terrible at listening? (that could likely be the issue).

Also: When I turned on the speakers, there was a faint burning smell coming from the back of the right speaker (like soldering) . it smells like burnt metal. Is that normal for these new speakers?

KEF LS50, r200c, KHT3005, Denon x3400h, Epson 5040UBE

Last edited by feedbackq; 01-03-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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post #2609 of 3192 Old 01-03-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feedbackq View Post
Just received LS50 Wireless today and hooked it up.

I just hooked it up and tried playing some songs over bluetooth.
I have a pair of B&O S3s side by side.

Just played a couple of classical guitar tunes (Andrew York's Denouncement) and its weird but it seems as though the S3s sound much better. The finger plucking of the lower notes are much clearer and pronounced on the S3s whereas the LS50ws sound muted and really flat. I feel like I'm in a concert hall with the S3s but not with the LS50s

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here. Granted I'm streaming over bluetooth but the difference is significant.
Or perhaps I'm just terrible at listening? (that could likely be the issue).

Also: When I turned on the speakers, there was a faint burning smell coming from the back of the right speaker (like soldering) . it smells like burnt metal. Is that normal for these new speakers?
Always use a sub with ls50w. And then recheck. I have not heard B&O , but they may be better speakers. Also make sure the port is plugged. It introduces a little sound smearing at port frequency.

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post #2610 of 3192 Old 01-03-2018, 01:04 PM
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The Bang and Olufsen speakers can't be better speakers (they're $200).
I'll try to hook up a sub and see if there is any difference.

KEF LS50, r200c, KHT3005, Denon x3400h, Epson 5040UBE
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